The book was Max Weinreich’s History Of The Yiddish Language. Originally published in two volumes in Yiddish. An English translation was published in 1980 though I think it was only of volume one. My university library had a copy. If I remember rightly, Weinreich’s point was that knowledge of Yiddish spread to non-Jews, in this case employees of Jews.
Something like the same situation obtained in the Ukraine just before Bohdan Khmelnytski's revolt, and perhaps in Germany under the Weimar Republic.
'MADNESS!! There is NO plug. The Zionazis control the West, the Anglosphere in particular and the USA most of all, COMPLETELY. There is ‘No Exit’. Full stop. Tamam Shud.'
In a book on Yiddish I read years ago, there is a passing reference to Ukrainians including Cossacks turning on Jews they worked for and killing them, at the time of the Khmelnytski revolt. Sometimes the employees taunted their employers/victims in Yiddish before killing them.
It's worth noting that the same pattern seems to have repeated itself in compressed form in the Baltics and Eastern Poland in 1939-41.Lithuania at least had no history of pogroms. I doubt if it was all tolerance and integration -- but Jews and Lithuanians apparently managed to avoid killing each other. Then came the Soviet takeover -- and the local Jews swiftly appointed themselves top dogs. As one observer wrote, there was a definite air of 'we're in charge now!'...and accompanied by mass persecutions, arrests, deportations, etc. Note that just as in the Seventeenth Century Ukraine, the Jews had assumed a place between the indigenous gentile inhabitants and the alien rulers.Then come June 22, 1941, it was payback time.
In a book on Yiddish I read years ago, there is a passing reference to Ukrainians including Cossacks turning on Jews they worked for and killing them, at the time of the Khmelnytski revolt. Sometimes the employees taunted their employers/victims in Yiddish before killing them.
To a point, I agree -- as I more or less said. However, (a) I'm damned if I'll let myself get seduced into lying, and (b) isn't the word rapidly losing all pejorative value? It's getting to be a bit like me accusing you of 'not being a Christian.'
My thoughts might change with time, some other views I have had changed, but the Zionist eagerness to paint “anti-Semitic” target signs on those who challenge them make me disinclined to apply the target sign to myself, and I feel others should not do so either.
(a) If you feel that way, express it then. Though I think it helps them, unfortunately. But if you are prepared to take the heat that may go with it, then go for it. It may not matter in practical terms whether you accept the label or not – to quote one example, Jeremy Corbyn denied being anti-Semitic and I believe him. It did not stop the vicious attacks on him. Then again he was a prominent politician. People like me or you might have more space to operate.
(b) It has less pejorative value than it did in the 1970s, partly due to the passage of time, but it still has some. Otherwise they would not use it to target people.
Here I suspect we're going to part ways.
'...I think we should disappoint Zionists in the same way, by not yielding to the provocations aimed at turning us anti-Semitic..
My thoughts might change with time, some other views I have had changed, but the Zionist eagerness to paint “anti-Semitic” target signs on those who challenge them make me disinclined to apply the target sign to myself, and I feel others should not do so either.
To a point, I agree -- as I more or less said. However, (a) I'm damned if I'll let myself get seduced into lying, and (b) isn't the word rapidly losing all pejorative value? It's getting to be a bit like me accusing you of 'not being a Christian.'
My thoughts might change with time, some other views I have had changed, but the Zionist eagerness to paint “anti-Semitic” target signs on those who challenge them make me disinclined to apply the target sign to myself, and I feel others should not do so either.
But Judaism has largely degenerated into support for Israel. One could agree that orthodox Jews are perhaps strange but not necessarily objectionable -- but what about those who don't bother with the strange clothing but still consider themselves Jews?
'I have never let the possibility of being considered anti-Semitic deter me from supporting Palestine.'
What I would concede is that we should not let being labelled as anti-Semitic deter us from being anti-Zionist. However, we should not embrace the label.
In terms of historical precedents, I have been interested by older history textbooks, usually British, that maintained there was something intrinsic to Germans that made them militaristic, and hence Hitler. Yet these now read oddly. I think it was possible to fight the Third Reich without being hostile to Germans as such. If you hated Germans, of course it simplified carrying out the Hamburg firestorm or Dresden. But the latter did not actually defeat the Third Reich and the effect of the former is at least debatable.
It is said that William III (died 1702) made the following remark about a hostile, pro-Jacobite clergyman or pamphleteer: “X has set his heart on becoming a martyr. And I have set mine on disappointing him.” I think we should disappoint Zionists in the same way, by not yielding to the provocations aimed at turning us anti-Semitic.
I have never let the possibility of being considered anti-Semitic deter me from supporting Palestine. The fact that mainstream media outlets run for cover is because that is their MO. I worked in the media myself – I know what goes on there.
It certainly hasn’t barred my friend from action – I have just seen her on Instagram demonstrating outside the US embassy in her country, over Venezuela. She is the sort of sea-green incorruptible the world should turn out in greater quantity but doesn’t.
But Judaism has largely degenerated into support for Israel. One could agree that orthodox Jews are perhaps strange but not necessarily objectionable -- but what about those who don't bother with the strange clothing but still consider themselves Jews?
'I have never let the possibility of being considered anti-Semitic deter me from supporting Palestine.'
As a practical matter, I sometimes wonder how one can long remain an opponent of Israel without becoming antisemitic. After all, half the world's Jews are in Israel. We're seeing a pretty large sample of Jewish behavior. How can one look at that and not become biased against Jews? Isn't the bias perfectly reasonable? In Israel, we are talking about an organism that enjoys the approval and support of a majority of the world's Jews, to one degree or another. Rare is the Jew who agrees Israel should be dismantled.
A friend of mine in another country was labelled a dangerous anti-Semite by the Israeli embassy in her country. I can see their problem – she is charismatic, a good organiser and is one of those relatively few people who can draw large numbers of other people into political action. She was active in pro-Palestinian causes long before this but her work has really hit its stride now.
This is no doubt a controversial point, especially on this site, but I think the Zionists want us to be anti-Semitic, and I don’t think we should oblige them.
On the other hand, what I have seen far too much of is allowing fears of being labelled antisemitic emasculate criticism of Israel, bar effective action, etc. Just in the last few months, a Jew, Larry Ellison, has gained control of Tik Tok and CBS and is openly moving to prevent criticism of Israel on those platforms. Another Jew, Larry Fink, gained a large share of the corporation that controls Fox News and got Tucker Carlson fired. We've seen the BBC, the Guardian, and the New York Times all effectively muzzled by shouts of 'antisemitism.' Right now, Hitler's little helpers are fighting to gain control of Turning Point USA and expending vast sums to shore up their support among Evangelicals.They just fucking invaded Venezuela and are explicitly threatening to invade Columbia. Both states, not at all coincidentally, severed ties with Israel in 2024. They are to serve as examples.At some point, when the cry 'that's antisemitic!' is raised, one has to say, 'so what? There's much to be antisemitic about.'When we really can say 'Jews aren't so bad; we shouldn't hate them' then we'll stop hating them. Personally, I like them, generally -- as individuals. But at the moment, collectively they clearly are so bad.If the Jews don't like it, let them modify their behavior. Then I'll revisit my attitude. This is like talking about how one mustn't hate all Germans -- in 1941.
'...This is no doubt a controversial point, especially on this site, but I think the Zionists want us to be anti-Semitic, and I don’t think we should oblige them.'
It would be more accurate to say they want a few of us to be antisemitic.
'This is no doubt a controversial point, especially on this site, but I think the Zionists want us to be anti-Semitic, and I don’t think we should oblige them.'
More likely he was being preserved for a projected trial. Rather like Georg Elser.
A friend of mine in another country was labelled a dangerous anti-Semite by the Israeli embassy in her country. I can see their problem – she is charismatic, a good organiser and is one of those relatively few people who can draw large numbers of other people into political action. She was active in pro-Palestinian causes long before this but her work has really hit its stride now.
As a practical matter, I sometimes wonder how one can long remain an opponent of Israel without becoming antisemitic. After all, half the world's Jews are in Israel. We're seeing a pretty large sample of Jewish behavior. How can one look at that and not become biased against Jews? Isn't the bias perfectly reasonable? In Israel, we are talking about an organism that enjoys the approval and support of a majority of the world's Jews, to one degree or another. Rare is the Jew who agrees Israel should be dismantled.
A friend of mine in another country was labelled a dangerous anti-Semite by the Israeli embassy in her country. I can see their problem – she is charismatic, a good organiser and is one of those relatively few people who can draw large numbers of other people into political action. She was active in pro-Palestinian causes long before this but her work has really hit its stride now.
Dunno about that. Rosenberg, for example, advocated the creation of autonomous Baltic and Slavic states. The real problem there is that he had already become an 'also-ran' in the jockeying for power, respect, ad Hitler's favor that dominated politics in the Third Reich....and the Abwehr had its 'Nachtigall' and 'Roland' battalions of Ukrainian separatists. Finally, of course, the German army raised far more Hilfswilligen battalions than they were supposed to: if one looks through the OOB for Fall Blau just about every German infantry division seems to have had an auxiliary battalion of former P.O.W.'s 'n stuff.Ultimately, I'd say it was a function of Hitler not wanting things to go that way. But they could have, easily enough. After all, look at the SS Divisions Himmler raised from Balts and Ukrainians in 1943-44. They all fought well enough. Look at the Lokot Republic.Another course wasn't an impossibility. Hitler could have gotten realistic about things after the failure of Barbarossa and the rest of the German establishment would have gone along; a 'hearts and minds' approach starting in early 1942 would have worked, in my opinion.Replies: @Anon59, @Wielgus
'...Nazi Germans could not help themselves: Hitler’s dream* was Lebensraum in the East, all the way to the Urals. There was just no possibility of Übermenschen co-existing with Untermenschen. It was one or the other.'
Rosenberg was a fluent Russian speaker and had actually been born in the Tsarist Empire. But he lost out in the power struggles. The somewhat prominent writer Edwin Erich Dwinger, a junior officer in the Waffen-SS, advocated more humane treatment of Slavs (his description of badly wounded Soviet POWs in late 1941 in one of his articles suggests he admired their stoicism and wished they were being treated better – he describes them leaving trails of blood in the snow when crawling to collect food handouts). But Dwinger had some Russian ancestry and perhaps his opinions were dismissed for that reason.
Even if we assume you're right, summarily dispatching a hundred million people to Siberia would have implicitly condemned tens of millions of them to death. Is it your contention that the Germans would have taken great care to ensure reasonable conditions in transport and the existence of the necessary infrastructure to support such a population upon arrival?
Hitler only wanted to move Russian Slavs back beyond the Urals, but he would have moderated that once the war was over. There was no Slavic genocide plan.
The Third Reich also tended to be more unrestrained in eastern Europe. In the west, occupied peoples initially found the Germans to be more disciplined and less barbaric than expected, but in the east, the gloves were off right from the start.
It was no improvisation by the local commanders.
the gloves were off right from the start.
In broad strokes, that's true, but there was also a great deal of variation. For example, Bohemia and Moravia vs. Poland; the willingness to encourage autonomy in Croatia and Slovakia vs. prompt repression of the same in the Ukraine.
'The Third Reich also tended to be more unrestrained in eastern Europe. In the west, occupied peoples initially found the Germans to be more disciplined and less barbaric than expected, but in the east, the gloves were off right from the start.'
A clip from the British 1990s TV series Absolutely Fabulous. This is the “Morocco” episode in which Edwina Monsoon, her parasitical friend Patsy and her well-educated but naive daughter Saffy decide to go to Morocco. They encounter a certain amount of sexual harassment from male locals and Edwina and Patsy spend much time unconscious after scoring hashish. Patsy, who hates Saffy, sells her to the locals, saying Saffy always wanted to get to know other cultures and this is her chance. Edwina remarks that spending the rest of her life in “painful servitude” was probably not quite what Saffy intended. Because it’s black comedy rather than tragedy, they encounter Saffy dressed as a local woman and carrying a water container on her head and they all get back to England, no doubt somewhat relieved…
This is one thought that keeps recurring to me. Yes, Hitler and the Nazis made mistakes; we all do if we undertake something for the first time. If you've never done any wiring, redo your house -- and without an instruction manual. Betcha you make some mistakes...
I agree. I’m far from a WW2 expert, but the Nazis just had too many blunders given the international forces they were up against. They had to thread too many needles. The Kristallnacht ruined them.
Too many threads and needles. They were remarkably poor at making friends. For example they spent WW2 grinding Poles’ faces in the dirt even though many were anti-Bolshevik and anti-Semitic. In 1940 a Polish fascist was as likely to be executed by them as a Polish leftist.
Maybe the Battle of Vienna, or just some computer game?Replies: @Wielgus
'...The Winged Hussar mystique puzzles me, as Hussars are more traditionally associated with the Hungarians...'
Possibly Vienna. Jan Sobieski brought 4,000 Polish troops who were among the forces sent to break the siege in 1683, and many were cavalry.
The film is pretty accurate historically. It illustrates also how Cossacks ended up in the Russian Empire, after rebelling against the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
Well, be fair. I don't know about them being especially noble, but Poles did spend most of the last two and half centuries being oppressed -- and they are indubitably courageous. Look at the three times they attempted to throw off the Russian yoke. Their admittedly brave stand in 1939: the Germans commented that -- however incompetently -- the Poles fought much harder than the French. Their -- unlike certain national formations -- impressive performance when armed and trained by the British. The Warsaw Uprising.
'Having swallowed the established lies about the soo noble and heavily oppressed Polish nation, people in the West remain blisssfully ignorant.'
Polish Winged Hussars as antagonists for Cossacks, from a film of Sienkiewicz’s Fire And Sword. The Winged Hussar mystique puzzles me, as Hussars are more traditionally associated with the Hungarians. Lancers or Uhlans were the quintessential Polish cavalry type, with lancers in other armies frequently adopting versions of the Polish konfederatka cap as their headgear.
Maybe the Battle of Vienna, or just some computer game?Replies: @Wielgus
'...The Winged Hussar mystique puzzles me, as Hussars are more traditionally associated with the Hungarians...'
Grynszpan’s fate is unknown. One theory is he was kept alive during the war because the Third Reich wanted to hold a trial at war’s end indicting an international Jewish conspiracy against Germany. Georg Elser may have been kept alive for the same reason. But it became clear such a trial would never happen. Elser was certainly killed, perhaps also Grynszpan.
Perhaps Irving is inclined to promote himself; but in his position, if he doesn't, who will? Unlike more conforming historians, he can't sit back and let the plaudits and awards come of themselves. Cambridge isn't going to appoint him Regius Professor of Modern History.
Irving tends to overestimate himself. Witness his acting as his own attorney in the ill-considered and misbegotten Lipschitz Affair. SFI.
I remember a British TV interview with Irving c.1981 and he mentioned having political ambitions. I don’t think he realised at the time that his non-standard view of WW2 was likely to seriously interfere with such ambitions.
It would appear so. The American authorities charged him with illegally entering the USA. The Canadians applied for his extradition. The German consulate arranged for him to leave the USA – clearly Von Werra was not closely guarded.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_von_Werra
A German fighter pilot and POW who escaped to the USA from Canada while it was neutral. With German consular help he got out of the USA as quickly as possible in case he was extradited back to Canada. Until December 1941, Third Reich films could be shown in the USA, escaping German POWs could regard the USA as a destination on the road to getting back to Germany, and I have doubts whether German White Books could be banned.
Is that really correct? Under what law was it illegal to distribute "Nazi propaganda" prior to the outbreak of war? I'm genuinely puzzled. Maybe they violated the Foreign Agents Registration Act if they didn't disclose their connection to the German government.Replies: @Wielgus, @Hartmann, @Hartmann
I believe both the publisher and the translator of the German White Paper were put in prison for distributing Nazi propaganda, even before the US was (officially) at war.
Third Reich films, including a propaganda one about invading Poland in 1939, were still being watched in movie houses in German-American parts of New York City in the summer of 1941.
LOL.
Nikolai Starikov mentions that German doctors gave vom Rath 3 blood transfusions with the wrong blood type before he finally died. Cui bono?
The claim made me do a little research on blood transfusion. In 1938 even the discovery that there are different blood types was rather recent.
“He had distinguished the main blood groups in 1901, having developed the modern system of classification of blood groups from his identification of the presence of agglutinins in the blood. In 1937, with Alexander S. Wiener, he identified the Rhesus factor, thus enabling physicians to transfuse blood without endangering the patient’s life.” (Wikipedia article on Karl Landsteiner) Landsteiner, who was born Jewish but later converted to Christianity, did his later research into blood types in the USA, and German doctors in 1938 would presumably not have had access to his latest findings. German blood transfusion in WW2 was apparently more primitive and also riskier than the procedures used by American and British doctors.
Goebbels was a rather notorious womaniser (his involvement with the German film industry seems to have involved a certain amount of “casting couch” behaviour) and it did not help that Lida Baarova was a Slav. A lot of his behaviour during the war was a gradual climb back into favour after losing ground before the war – because of the Baarova business, among others. The claim that it significantly contributed to the outbreak of WW2 is, I think, far too flattering to both Goebbels and Baarova.
Sure, I'd second all but the last sentence, which is exactly what Irving argues in his persuasive biography.
Goebbels was a rather notorious womaniser (his involvement with the German film industry seems to have involved a certain amount of “casting couch” behaviour) and it did not help that Lida Baarova was a Slav. A lot of his behaviour during the war was a gradual climb back into favour after losing ground before the war – because of the Baarova business, among others. The claim that it significantly contributed to the outbreak of WW2 is, I think, far too flattering to both Goebbels and Baarova.
Replies: @Colin Wright
Verification: Each link in the chain is verified as factual in our findings:
Affair ➜ Goebbels’ personal crisis: True (Goebbels nearly lost his position).
Personal crisis ➜ Kristallnacht instigation: True (evidence indicates Goebbels sought to redeem himself through radical action).
Kristallnacht ➜ international outrage & British policy shift: Largely true. Kristallnacht was a PR disaster for Hitler. While the immediate cause for Britain’s war guarantee was the March 1939 occupation of Czech lands, the cumulative effect of Nazi barbarism (including Kristallnacht) had by then destroyed any sympathy or trust. Chamberlain faced public and parliamentary pressure to stand up to Hitler partly because events like Kristallnacht had revealed the Nazis’ brutal nature en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org. Roosevelt specifically cited Kristallnacht in speeches to galvanize American public opinion against Hitler. So Kristallnacht did influence Western attitudes, stiffening resolve against further Nazi aggression.
British hard line ➜ War outbreak: True as discussed (the British guarantee gave Poland confidence to refuse negotiation, Hitler attacked Poland expecting it might be a local war but Britain/France declared war – thus world war began)
It's the equivalent to saying the current war in Ukraine is ultimately due to a lovers' tiff between Zelensky and Macron. Drug-fueled lovers' triangle with Brigitte sucker-punching Zelensky to reclaim her/his man?It is due to simple enough failure in evaluating history. We know that official histories are false ('lies agreed upon by the masses'), and this leads to thinking that therefore a 'true' history is possible, is out there somewhere waiting to be discovered. And we are watching the process in real time in Ukraine, we can see the daily construction of the propaganda narratives that will become official 'history' (depending on how decisively Russia wins). But even with the events happening in real time as we watch with the benefit of instant first-person telling via the Internet, we cannot agree on what the 'real' causes are today. Because they cannot be boiled down to simple declarative statements.The process of telling history inevitably involves reducing infinitely complex events involving many individuals each with their own motives and circumstances, and simplifying all of that down to a single narrative that will be accepted by future generations. So did Goebbels have an affair with a Czech actress and did he happen to be lovesick and depressed when Kristallnacht was launched? Sure, I have no trouble accepting that. Was that the ultimate cause of Kristallnacht, snowballing into WW2-->3? You might as well argue that Hitler had a bout of indigestion one night and his dog bit him, and that was the 'real' cause.Replies: @notanonymoushere, @Kingsmeg
Goebbels was a rather notorious womaniser (his involvement with the German film industry seems to have involved a certain amount of “casting couch” behaviour) and it did not help that Lida Baarova was a Slav. A lot of his behaviour during the war was a gradual climb back into favour after losing ground before the war – because of the Baarova business, among others. The claim that it significantly contributed to the outbreak of WW2 is, I think, far too flattering to both Goebbels and Baarova.
That hasn't always been the historic Jewish reaction. For example, the dawning realization of the association between Jewry and Communism in circa 1950 America led to Jews 'making nice': rejecting Communism, and banging the 'Americans all' drum.' Suddenly it was Americans of the Hebraic faith, and can we join the Boy Scouts too?
'Meamjojo is of course correct, and no doubt comfortable in his arrogance. Threatening Jewish money would be like threatening to cut off oxygen, the Satan Cult would go into a complete psychopathic tantrum and strike out anyway they could.'
Roy Cohn’s strident anti-Communism after WW2 was no doubt a product of this. His politics in general are something of an enigma for me – he was a life-long Democrat but seems to have preferred Republicans. He was a classic example of a “Democrat In Name Only”. Then again, the much more liberal Gore Vidal once campaigned on behalf of a Republican he seems to have liked personally, despite Vidal being a Democrat, a Kennedy associate etc. Not like politics on this side of the Atlantic at all.
Cohn’s mentor, a certain George Sokolsky, had commented back in the 1930s that “a Communist parade looks Jewish”.
I wonder if he actually was Jewish? It's possible, but definitely not probable.
Just after the Americans arrived in Baghdad in 2003, I saw TV footage of a hole in a mosque’s minaret. A couple of locals said, at least according to the English subtitles, that an American tank had fired a round into the minaret and the tank commander told them he was Jewish.
I am sceptical, though it fits with the arrogant chutzpah they often show – “We can do whatever we want!”
About the same time at least one US armoured vehicle fired on a hotel, killing and wounding media workers – I believe at least one was from Al Jazeera and it may have been a deliberate punishment of “non-embedded” media.
I’ve been re-reading some of George Orwell’s essays and journalism (in my view often more perceptive than his more famous novels) and he mentions toe the line being wrongly spelled back in the 194os.
‘America should have stood up for Christians in Iraq, who were there before Islam was even invented. Destroying mosques should have been a normal operating procedure.’
‘Standing up’ for the Christians in Iraq would have involved leaving Saddam Hussein in power, not deposing him and inviting a Shi’a resurgance, Sunni fanaticism, and so on.
America (and Britain) didn’t go into Iraq to “stand up” for any of the locals. Not even the Kurds, because the Turkish authorities complained about the pro-Kurdish noises being made to justify the invasion. And I suspect the tank commander, if he was indeed Jewish, would have been as happy to put a shell into a Christian church as into a minaret. It’s not like the Israelis spared Christian institutions in Gaza, is it?
'Standing up' for the Christians in Iraq would have involved leaving Saddam Hussein in power, not deposing him and inviting a Shi'a resurgance, Sunni fanaticism, and so on.Replies: @Wielgus, @Jameson
'America should have stood up for Christians in Iraq, who were there before Islam was even invented. Destroying mosques should have been a normal operating procedure.'
Tariq Aziz, Saddam’s Foreign Minister, was Christian, at least by origin. He was imprisoned after Saddam’s overthrow and died in jail.
That is decidedly letting the cat out of the bag.Replies: @Wielgus
'...During Carr's Iraq War service, he helped lead an anti-terrorism team in missions throughout Iraq, prosecute terrorists who had attacked U.S soldiers in the Central Criminal Court of Iraq, and train Iraqi judges and lawyers on constitutional law and criminal defense. He also led Jewish services in the former presidential palace of Saddam Hussein in Baghdad, including by lighting a Hanukkah menorah in the first Hanukkah after the liberation of Baghdad in 2003...'
Just after the Americans arrived in Baghdad in 2003, I saw TV footage of a hole in a mosque’s minaret. A couple of locals said, at least according to the English subtitles, that an American tank had fired a round into the minaret and the tank commander told them he was Jewish.
I wonder if he actually was Jewish? It's possible, but definitely not probable.
Just after the Americans arrived in Baghdad in 2003, I saw TV footage of a hole in a mosque’s minaret. A couple of locals said, at least according to the English subtitles, that an American tank had fired a round into the minaret and the tank commander told them he was Jewish.
Leopold Bloom, one of the novel’s principal characters, has a Hungarian Jewish father who converted to Protestantism, and an Irish Catholic mother.
Jonathan Miller, a Jewish atheist media personality in Britain who died in 2019, claimed in an interview that an ancestor, possibly his grandfather, wanted to emigrate to the USA in the late 19th century but got off the boat at Cork, Ireland, thinking it was New York.
Basically, he drank himself to death. People like Hoover (with whom he had played golf in the past) and Nixon kept their distance from him after 1954 – they were good politicians and decided he was toxic.
To a considerable extent he was a victim of his own deputy, Roy Cohn. Whether or not Cohn was deliberately trying to undermine McCarthy is far from clear. But intended or not, the effects of what Cohn was doing were much the same. Cohn maintained some sort of career as a lawyer until being disbarred shortly before his death in 1986, but for McCarthy it was all over.
Correct. The ACLU ran for cover at this time. Some lawyers who defended Communists were actually jailed during the period, and Communists noted that they found it difficult to obtain legal representation. One praised a particular lawyer who turned him down – not for turning him down but for admitting that he feared that taking on the defence of a Communist would destroy his career. Others were less forthright about their reasons.
I have the impression something similar happened to Latin in the Dark Ages.
On the Web, I notice at least as many such errors in toe the line as accurate spellings. The slow death of the English language?
Medieval Latin increasingly deviated from the Classical version, for a number of reasons. Especially if their native language was a Romance one the Latin of users tended to be influenced by their actual spoken language. And people were aware of it – at least one glossary exists showing “incorrect” words in use and placing alongside them the “correct” ones. The glossary’s “incorrect” vocabulary is in fact proto-Italian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appendix_Probi
It could be that current errors are just another stage in the development of English, though it just looks like slipshod use of language to me. The actual grasp of Latin among clerics varied – a letter by Luther before his break with Rome comments on the ignorance of grammar shown by some of his opponents – ie. their Latin wasn’t very good.
Well, there is as bad and worse out there. Rein in is very often spelled reign in and I have even encountered the semi-literate spelling rain in. A surprisingly large number of people write there when they mean their and vice versa.
“Pedantic” – well, I used to edit and proofread, and it probably shows…
It wasn't until I was about thirty five that I realized 'it's' wasn't the possessive form of 'it.' Odd that I would make it through college without ever being called on it.
Well, there is as bad and worse out there. Rein in is very often spelled reign in and I have even encountered the semi-literate spelling rain in. A surprisingly large number of people write there when they mean their and vice versa.
“Pedantic” – well, I used to edit and proofread, and it probably shows…
'toeing,' for Chrissake. One 'toes' the line, one does not 'tow' it. The latter is nonsensical.Replies: @Wielgus
'...ADL protected Jews who were towing the bipartisan line...'
On the Web, I notice at least as many such errors in toe the line as accurate spellings. The slow death of the English language?
I have the impression something similar happened to Latin in the Dark Ages.
On the Web, I notice at least as many such errors in toe the line as accurate spellings. The slow death of the English language?
If that's all they can come up with for 'the capital,' Jews must be doing pretty well.Replies: @Wielgus
'Israel Labels Dublin 'Capital of Antisemitism' for Considering Renaming Park Honoring Ex-president Herzog'
Clutching at straws.
It reminds me of a character in James Joyce’s Ulysses who remarks half-seriously that Ireland did not persecute the Jews because it did not let them in in the first place.
Ended by defeat in WW1 and the proclamation of the Republic, though many Germans did not accept the latter.
Learning could be propagandistic. In Protestant universities, doctorates could be awarded for theses maintaining that the Pope was Antichrist. This certainly happened in universities like Oxford and Cambridge. Polemics during the Reformation could be vicious. Until the early 20th century, Catholic polemicists maintained that Martin Luther worshipped the Devil.
I don't want to harp on it but this is the 'considered opinion' of one 'E. Michael Jones' today, in fact he takes it further...E. Michael Jones Explains Why Protestantism is SATANIC!!! | David L. Gray - Off Code & Unscriptedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNE0t_gg_Rg
Catholic polemicists maintained that Martin Luther worshipped the Devil.
Sometimes under Thatcher there would be calls for old-fashioned values, and the media morality watchdog Mary Whitehouse was keen on her, but just under the surface the Thatcherite Tories were quite louche. (Sometimes it was no longer just under the surface but quite obvious.) That she tried several times to get Jimmy Savile a knighthood, finally succeeding just before she left office, is a very telling fact.
The British comedian Kenny Everett died of AIDS in 1995. I read his biography. He contracted the disease from a highly promiscuous male friend, Nikolai Grishanovich, who was from Russia. The biography skated past this but Grishanovich came to Britain at a time when virtually nobody from the USSR was getting to the West except on the “Jewish quota”.
It reminds me of the film Con Air at the start. The main character, Cameron Poe, (Nicholas Cage), a US Army Ranger, kills a man while defending his girl friend and gets sent to jail for seven years. People commenting on the film tend to believe such a thing would never happen but I’m not so sure.
Of course it would happen. Hence what was 'the doctrine of the reasonable man' is now legend.
'It reminds me of the film Con Air at the start. The main character, Cameron Poe, (Nicholas Cage), a US Army Ranger, kills a man while defending his girl friend and gets sent to jail for seven years. People commenting on the film tend to believe such a thing would never happen but I’m not so sure.'
In a way, it or the like may have inevitable. Hitler's revolution released a whole lot of energy, and it all had to go somewhere. Given the racial nationalism and implied violence of the whole movement, guess what? Train up four million young Germans in quasi-military organizations...well, now what are you going to do with them all? It must have all been building to a fever pitch of nationalist exhaltation. Much is made of the average German's distaste for going to war -- but the young men seem to have been wild about the idea. Of course, the Germans certainly could have behaved more nicely -- but if you're trying to be nice, why conquer your neighbor at all? In a way, the need to release all that energy required an ideology that would make the actions of the Nazis seem reasonable to themselves. Without a doctrine such as Lebensraum, how can you reasonably go stomping off to the Volga? A criticism of Bolshevism is that it was a doctrine in search of a victim; the workers had to want to revolt, else the doctrine made no sense. Nazism was violent energy in search of a war; one of the reasons I'm skeptical of arguments that go 'if only the British had...' or whatever. Maybe the genie was going to come out of the bottle -- whatever the details.As for the Jews, I suspect there had to be an other; something the Nazis could point to and say, 'this is what we are not; this is who we are going to exclude.' If the scapegoat wasn't going to be the Jews, it would have had to have been somebody else.However, all this is not quite the same as saying the Holocaust was inevitable. As I speculated, given a different turn of events, it all could have played out like the expulsion of the Indians from Uganda or the like.Replies: @Wielgus, @Marcali
Ironically, types like Engel agree with the more hard-shelled Third Reich apologists – it was all about the Jews. Hitler rehabilitation goes hand in hand with a Jewish version of pre-WW1 Italy’s “sacred egoism”.
I would also mention the Third Reich’s drive to Lebensraum in the east. The Poles and even more the Soviets were a barrier to this. Though the Poles were themselves frequently anti-Semitic, their continued existence was an obstacle to these Third Reich ambitions. So the Poles were to be assimilated as Volksdeutsch, expelled or killed.
German pacifists in the 1932 election campaigns warned that an NSDAP victory sooner or later meant war. They were right, of course, but either they convinced few or there was a significant constituency of Germans who wanted war and naturally were not turned off by the prospect of one.
According to The Weimar Chronicle one of the tunes played in Berlin to celebrate Hitler being made Chancellor was entitled Victoriously We Will Crush The French.
William Shirer commented on how fit and healthy young German soldiers looked in 1940, in contrast to British POWs who looked like the Depression had taken a toll of them – pasty-faced, missing teeth etc. Shirer may have been reacting to selected propaganda newsreel images but there was undoubtedly a kernel of truth in them. Germany had looked after its young, particularly its males, and Britain had not. However, it was preparing them for war, and Britain was not.
That's perhaps unfair to Nazism. It really was a very benevolent, egalitarian movement, concerned for the welfare of all.
'...Germany had looked after its young, particularly its males, and Britain had not. However, it was preparing them for war, and Britain was not...'
I customarily differ with Holocaust deniers, but assertions such as the ones you mention are also ridiculous.
'I just finished listening to 14 lectures by holocaust scholar David Engel.
The series opens with the declaration, repeated at least a dozen times, that “Hitler set out to kill every single Jew he could get his hands on” because “this was the main purpose of Nazism.”'
Ironically, types like Engel agree with the more hard-shelled Third Reich apologists – it was all about the Jews. Hitler rehabilitation goes hand in hand with a Jewish version of pre-WW1 Italy’s “sacred egoism”.
I would also mention the Third Reich’s drive to Lebensraum in the east. The Poles and even more the Soviets were a barrier to this. Though the Poles were themselves frequently anti-Semitic, their continued existence was an obstacle to these Third Reich ambitions. So the Poles were to be assimilated as Volksdeutsch, expelled or killed.
Etc. Obviously, I shouldn't have cast aspersions on your beloved Hitler.Replies: @Wielgus
'You don’t know what took place between Hitler and Geli; no one does. It’s all speculation on your part. But you blithely make un-sourced comments here all the time playing as if you’re ‘in the know’. You’ve logged over 26,000 [!!!!] comments in 10 years. That has to be a record. Do you do anything else? That might be a reason your wife is not so malleable to your wishes...'
26,000! Such diligence. I’ve only logged about 4,000. I must up my game…
Possibly your romantic interpretation is correct. A more conspiratorial take was given by Nathan Smith, “The Role of Russian Freemasonry in the February Revolution: Another Scrap of Evidence,” Slavic Review, 1968.In addition to the Bolsheviks etc. were an influential group of men animated (at the middle levels, at least) by the philosophes' cry that "Man cannot be free until the last King is strangled with the entrails of the last Priest." The writer and editor at the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Lorenz Jäger, noted in his 2009 book, Hinter dem Große Orient:
You’re the one who is stuck in denial and doesn’t want to admit that the vast mass of Russians spontaneously rose up and toppled the Czarist monarchy with nary a Jew in sight... These demonstrations were entirely spontaneous. They had not been organized either by any of the old political parties or by any newly-formed political body. Neither the Bolsheviks nor the Mensheviks nor the Socialist Revolutionaries, whose underground groups were almost extinct in those days, ever claimed to have played any part in the outbreak of unrest.
According to Michael Hesemann, "The de-Christianization of Russia had already begun half a year before the October Revolution."
There is a photo of the Provisional Government: You can see the first prime minister, Prince Georgy Lvov, next to him Konovalov, Kerensky ... Guchkov, Vladimir, N. Nekrasov, Manuilov, Shingarev, and Godnev. Of these, the following were Freemasons: Kerensky, Shingarev, Guchkov, Konovalov, Nekrasov, Tereshchenko, and Rodichev.
Replies: @Wielgus, @Patrick McNally
The extent to which Russia changed as a result of the February Revolution was noted by the French ambassador Maurice Paleologue, who described in his diaries the new regime's first major public appearance, a celebration in honor of the victims of the revolutionary days:What strikes me most is what is missing from the celebration: the clergy. No priests, no icons, no prayers, no crosses. A single song: the Workers' Marseillaise. Since the ancient times of St. Olga and St. Vladimir, since the Russian people entered world history, this is the first time that a major national event has taken place without the support of the Church.-- Die große Täuschung, pp. 417 f., citing Paleologue, Am Zarenhof während des Weltkriegs (Munich, 1939), p. 450.
The Masonic connection reminds me – the Polish Franciscan priest Maximilian Kolbe put a fair amount of effort into anti-Masonic campaigns, regarding Freemasons as enemies of the Catholic Church. He was sent to Auschwitz in 1941 and killed there.
Andrei Shingarev, Freemason, was imprisoned shortly after the October Revolution and, along with Kokoshkin, another Provisional Government member, killed in early 1918 when Red sailors broke into the prison where they were held (whether they did so with authorisation by the new Soviet government is still uncertain, but they were not punished for the murders).
Anti-Masonic, pro-Masonic… Didn’t necessarily matter in the 20th century. Perhaps because other factors were at work.
https://www.famousfix.com/topic/przyjazn-magazine-poland-15-july-1983
When in the Soviet Union in 1984, I remember seeing this magazine in hotels, aimed at Polish visitors. Przyjaźń (“Friendship”) was published by the Polish-Soviet Friendship Society. It did not survive the end of the Soviet bloc.
It all sounds remarkably like the portrayal of the Prussian army offered in Kubrick's Barry Lyndon. Thackeray wrote the original novel; maybe he'd read the same memoirs.
'...Note that he is described as serving the King, ie. Frederick the Great, not Prussia. Bräker had little loyalty to either, naturally.'
Possibly Thackeray, or even Kubrick, read the memoirs of Bräker. Incidentally they were on my university syllabus as an example of German literature, though I found them more interesting as history than as literature.
Bräker’s regiment, called Itzenplitz (in a number of armies of the 18th century, regiments were named after their commander) was apparently regarded as one of the elite infantry regiments in the Prussian Army in 1756, but Bräker was not even the only Swiss man enrolled in it unwillingly, not to speak of other non-Prussians. I can only suppose less well-regarded regiments had even larger numbers of troops conscripted by force.
This individual is anything but objective.
You strike me as being reasonably objective on the subject of Poland
What may help to explain this are Eugene's own words: he saw it as a matter of holding a grudge against the King of France, not 'France.' Back then, people seemed to see loyalty as owed to a monarch, not a geographical entity. One didn't owe fealty to 'Prussia,' but to the King of Prussia. Highlanders didn't fight the Royal Army at Culloden because they were for or against Great Britain; they fought over whether a Stuart or a Hanoverian should sit on the throne. So, (literally) rejected by Louis XIV, Eugene takes service with the Austrian monarch instead, vows fealty to him, and thereafter serves him faithfully. It all must have made perfect sense to him.
'Interestingly, his entering military service with an enemy of France does not seem to have been regarded as treason.'
Stuart Reid, a somewhat controversial expert on the 1745-6 Jacobite rebellion, detects rejection of the 1707 Act Of Union as a factor in the support of some Scottish Jacobites for the rebellion. And he attributes this to nascent Scottish nationalism. Certainly compared to the 1715 rebellion, active Jacobites were overwhelmingly Scots. The earlier rebellion had had a significant English element. In 1745 the only significant English participation was by the Manchester Regiment, and when the rebellion was defeated they were treated with special harshness. Jacobite sympathy was widespread in England (Samuel Johnson for example may have harboured such sentiments) but few were prepared to take up arms.
The other points, though, yes. A Swiss by the name of Ulrich Bräker was unwillingly drafted into the Prussian Army in 1756. Here is an extract from his memoirs:
“For God’s sake, Herr Zittemann,” I went on, “what does this mean?” – “Nothing, sir”, answered he, “except that you, like me and the other gentlemen here, are a soldier, and consequently we’re all brothers, and making objections won’t help you any, but will put you on bread and water in the guardhouse, and tie you hand and foot, and flog you so your ribs crack, and then maybe you’ll be satisfied.” I: “By Christ, that would be an outrage, a godless thing!” He: “Take my word for it, that’s how it goes and not otherwise.” I:”Then I will make complaint to the King.” Here they all laughed loudly. He: “Never in your life would you get to see him”. I:”Who should I ask, then?” He: “Our Major, if you like. But it will do you no good, no good at all.” I:”Well, I shall try it at all events, and see if – and see if it’s really as you say”. The lads laughed again, but I resolved nevertheless to go to the Major next morning and enquire after my faithless master.
So soon as next day dawned in the sky, I found out the way to the Major’s lodgings. Ye gods! it seemed to me like a king’s palace, and the Major was like the King himself, so majestic did he appear to me, a big powerful man, with the face of a hero and a pair of fiery eyes like stars. I trembled before him and stuttered: “Herr…Major! I am…Herr Lieutenant Markoni’s ser…servant. F…f…for that he took me on, and n…nothing else b…besides. Y…you can ask him your…s…self. I…I don’t know where he i…is. Now they’re saying I must b…be a s…o…soldier, wh…whether I like it or not”. – “So”, he broke in, “you are the meritorious little servant, are you! Your fine master has been spending our money fit to make one laugh, and no doubt you got your share. In short, you are to serve the King now, and that’s the last word on the subject”. I: “But, Herr Major” He: “Silence, my lad or you’ll be under guard!” I: “But I have no contract or enlistment bounty! Ah, could I only speak with my master!” He: “You won’t see him again for the present, and in the enlistment bounty you have already cost as much as ten others. Your Lieutenant has made a pretty account of his expenses, and you stand at the head of it. But as for your contract, you shall have it.” I: “But -” He: “Out with you, why, you little runt -” I: “I b…beg of you -” He: “You rascal! Go to the devil!” With that he drew his sword. I was out of the house like a thief caught red-handed, and off to my lodging, hardly able to find the way again, such was my grief and fear.
There I bewailed my wretchedness long and loud to Zittemann. The good man tried to hearten me: “Patience, my son! Things will go better soon. Now you have fallen on evil days, and many likely lads from good families must do the same. For, granted that Markoni could and would keep you on, even so, he would have to put you into his regiment, as soon as word came for quick march to the front! And indeed, he would be in no position to maintain a servant for the present, for he is said to have paid out monstrous sums on his recruiting, and yet have brought in so few men, that I’ve many a time heard our colonel and our major lamenting over him, and they won’t be in any hurry to send him out on that business again.” Thus Zittemann comforted me, and I had to be content with it, for no better comfort could I get. But I said to myself: it’s the great ones of the earth who prepare such dishes, and us lesser folk have to lick the plates.
46. So it’s true that I’m a soldier?
In the afternoon the sergeant-major brought me my bread-ration and my weapons, and asked me if I were now better content with my situation. “And why not?” answered Zittemann for me, “He’s as good a lad as you can find.” Then I was led into the uniform store, and fitted out with breeches, boots and gaiters, and given a hat, a stock, hose and so forth. Then, together with about twenty other recruits, I was sent to Colonel Latorf. They led us into a hall as big as a church, brought out some banners, all tattered and torn, and ordered us each to take hold of an edge. An adjutant, or somebody, read us out a whole pack of Articles of War, and pronounced some words which most of us murmured after him. I kept my jaw shut, thinking of nothing in particular, Ännchen maybe; then he waved the flag over our heads and dismissed us.
Bräker had been hired as a servant by the Markoni mentioned in the text, who despite the Italian-sounding name was a Pole. But he turned out to be a lieutenant in the Prussian Army, hence the situation Bräker was now in. Bräker went on to describe taking part in the battle of Lobositz, where he deserted, and eventually was able to return to Switzerland. Note that he is described as serving the King, ie. Frederick the Great, not Prussia. Bräker had little loyalty to either, naturally.
You're going to have to fight that one out with tolken et al: is Colin a Pole lover or a Pole hater?
So Colin, you’ve made this type of accusation more than once now.What do you base it on — your chummy feelings toward Polish people, or maybe your belief the Poles were/are the underdog in this matchup?
You strike me as being reasonably objective on the subject of Poland. Whether that qualifies or disqualifies me from scoring the match, who can say?
This individual is anything but objective.
You strike me as being reasonably objective on the subject of Poland
To take the theme a bit further, the best “French” general of the 18th century prior to Napoleon, Maurice de Saxe, was an illegitimate son of the king of Poland and Saxony. Perhaps he was a sort of compensation for the best “Austrian” general of the late 17th and early 18th century being in fact a Frenchman.
I've noticed the disproportionate tendency of foreigners and semi-foreigners to rise to positions of prominence. Napoleon was Corsican, Stalin Georgian, Hitler Austrian.
To take the theme a bit further, the best “French” general of the 18th century prior to Napoleon, Maurice de Saxe, was an illegitimate son of the king of Poland and Saxony. Perhaps he was a sort of compensation for the best “Austrian” general of the late 17th and early 18th century being in fact a Frenchman.
...but it was the Germans who put him to good use! He had a heavy cruiser (the Prinz Eugen) and an SS division made up of ethnic Germans from Transylvania and Hungary (SS Prinz Eugen) named after him.
'...Eugene of Savoy tried to get a commission in Louis XIV’s army (he too was a native French speaker)...'
Replies: @Wielgus
'...Born in Paris, to the son of a French count and a niece of Cardinal Mazarin, Eugene was raised at the court of King Louis XIV...'
By today’s standards he was certainly a Frenchman. For a variety of reasons he was denied the opportunity to make a career in France. Interestingly, his entering military service with an enemy of France does not seem to have been regarded as treason.
What may help to explain this are Eugene's own words: he saw it as a matter of holding a grudge against the King of France, not 'France.' Back then, people seemed to see loyalty as owed to a monarch, not a geographical entity. One didn't owe fealty to 'Prussia,' but to the King of Prussia. Highlanders didn't fight the Royal Army at Culloden because they were for or against Great Britain; they fought over whether a Stuart or a Hanoverian should sit on the throne. So, (literally) rejected by Louis XIV, Eugene takes service with the Austrian monarch instead, vows fealty to him, and thereafter serves him faithfully. It all must have made perfect sense to him.
'Interestingly, his entering military service with an enemy of France does not seem to have been regarded as treason.'
Nazi Party Golden Badge on his lapel, and what looks like the SA badge though that organisation was in decline by then.
Maybe it was an artifact of the period when Sigismund was king of Sweden?
'...The hunting horn of Sigismund III Vasa: A valuable trophy that can also be viewed in the Swedish collections...'
Quite possibly. Arguments for example over whether Copernicus was a Pole or a German may be beside the point – he himself may never have given it much thought. The Emperor Charles V had French as his native language though he knew several others – Hapsburgs often had to. He had no difficulty fighting France in war and his troops captured the French king Francis I. Later Eugene of Savoy tried to get a commission in Louis XIV’s army (he too was a native French speaker), was rather contemptuously turned down and became one of Louis’ most dangerous opponents on the battlefield, fighting for Austria.
Even later on, in the 18th century, the future Prussian Marshal Blücher, born in Mecklenburg-Schwerin, became a hussar in the Swedish army. Sweden at the time still held a chunk of Pomerania, a relic of the Thirty Years’ War. The Prussians captured him in 1760 and he had little difficulty in becoming a Prussian officer. It was probably not until the Napoleonic Wars and after that modern nationalism took hold.
This applies to all our '-isms'; they aren't as eternal as we assume.
'...It was probably not until the Napoleonic Wars and after that modern nationalism took hold.'
What's interesting about this is that it wouldn't stop us from finding the question significant. I'm reasonably confident I could get an argument going with 'tolken' right now. I'd be very sure Copernicus should be German and I assume he would be firmly attached to a conviction that he was Polish.
'Quite possibly. Arguments for example over whether Copernicus was a Pole or a German may be beside the point – he himself may never have given it much thought.'
...but it was the Germans who put him to good use! He had a heavy cruiser (the Prinz Eugen) and an SS division made up of ethnic Germans from Transylvania and Hungary (SS Prinz Eugen) named after him.
'...Eugene of Savoy tried to get a commission in Louis XIV’s army (he too was a native French speaker)...'
Replies: @Wielgus
'...Born in Paris, to the son of a French count and a niece of Cardinal Mazarin, Eugene was raised at the court of King Louis XIV...'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_Freiherr_von_Killinger
He reminds me of this guy, though Killinger seems to have been beefier physically. Also a sadist. When the German position collapsed in Romania in 1944, Killinger failed to escape and ended up committing suicide.
I read that the military judge who sentenced the Ceausescus to death committed suicide not long after, despite having been promoted. Perhaps he was Epsteined…
“He gave a different account of the Warsaw uprising and seemed sincere.” Wow, that’s convincing. If he was defending a less Third Reich-friendly position I doubt whether you would be satisfied with a bland “he seemed sincere”.
Dirlewanger… The late Richard Plant wrote a book called The Pink Triangle about the treatment of homosexuals in the Third Reich. Plant interviewed a German or Austrian who had been imprisoned for homosexuality, which was illegal. The man was released from his jail or concentration camp and then drafted into Dirlewanger’s unit which received all manner of criminals or those perceived as such. Dirlewanger was angered at being sent homosexuals as reinforcements, so they were taken to a forest and tied to trees, with pink triangles attached to their uniforms. The soldiers who tied them up spat on them and then left – it was the winter of 1944/5 and the intention behind leaving them there was that they should freeze to death. However, Plant’s source reported that a Red Army patrol found them and he was released – it is not clear that the others who were tied up were still alive. The Soviets did not understand what the pink triangles meant and may have assumed they had been treated like that for being anti-fascists. Plant’s source formed a homosexual relationship with an Armenian medical orderly in the Red Army. His lover used the Armenian diaspora network to arrange emigration to the USA. They both went to the USA post-war but the Armenian later died.
Dirlewanger was partial to child molestation. Among his other characteristics…
His brigade was responsible for the WOLA massacre"
Dirlewanger was partial to child molestation. Among his other characteristics…
Are you a robot? Or just retarded?I repeat one more time: provide the names and surnames of alleged German victims of Polish persecution or atrocities in the period leading up to World War II.If such persecution had occurred, their names, surnames, photos, locations, descriptions of the event, etc., would have been published and recycled in the German press and radio day and night.
the inhuman atrocities committed against the German minority in Poland prior to September 1, 1939
In August 1932, before the advent of the Third Reich, SA men broke into the home of Konrad Pietrzuch, a Communist sympathiser who was also a member of Germany’s Polish minority. They beat Pietrzuch to death. It was called the Potempa affair, as Pietrzuch lived in the hamlet of Potempa, in Upper Silesia, a few kilometres from the border with Poland at that time. A law mandating death for political murder had come into force shortly before they killed Pietrzuch, and the five were sentenced to death. The NSDAP went into overdrive, shouting that five “decent Germans” should not be punished with death for killing a Pole. Hitler declared his “unlimited loyalty” to the murderers. The agitation succeeded in having the death sentences turned into life imprisonment in September 1932. With the Nazis coming to power the following year, the SA men were released. Which suggested at the time that killing a Pole, albeit a German citizen, was not considered a crime at all in the Third Reich.
Which is something our grotesque naonazis - Vigilante, Wear, Lid, Tulip, Yeager etc. - would wholeheartedly agree with TODAY, A.D. 2025!!
Which suggested at the time that killing a Pole, albeit a German citizen, was not considered a crime at all in the Third Reich.
As he [Ceausescu] confidently approached the microphone from the balcony and began mechanically repeating the tired old slogans of communism, suddenly a voice broke through with a high pitched scream, followed by an increasing din. The discordant sounds of protest rendered Ceausescu speechless and confused. That second, when the false edifice of his rule was punctured and the impossibility of his position exposed, communist rule died in Romania.
So somebody from the crowd talked back and that ended one of the most brutal dictatorships in the history of the world? Wouldn’t that person be simply picked up by the Romanian KGB and never seen again?
What you wrote reads like a movie trailer script.
I’ll tell you what ended his dictatorship. Ceausescu payed off Romania’s debt to the bankers and refused to take new loans – that is what ended his rule. He was publicly executed along with his wife as an example to all those that do not like taking loans. In other words, that was Regime Change (TM) and not Romanian people freeing themselves.
You are welcome.
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1000+ Anon001 Comments Archive @ The Unz Review | TUR
https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=anon001
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A cut-price female Stavisky? Or a lower-rent Heidi Fleiss?
That reminds me of the way Poles are portrayed in Dostoevski's The Gambler. Definitely contemptible.
A 19th century German novelist featured German conflict with Poles in one of his novels, including with a devious Catholic priest named Gorka, although the novel is as much anti-Catholic as anything else.
I don’t think he is the novelist I was referring to earlier but Gustav Freytag (1816-1895) published Soll Und Haben (“Debit And Credit”) in 1855. The Gutenberg Project has online an English translation that came out a few years later. The German original seems to have been highly popular but the novel is nowadays almost forgotten. Probably because the villains of the piece are Jews, in particular a certain Veitel Itzig (Itzig is a contemptuous term in German for “Jew”), and chaotic Poles who riot and stage an uprising which at one point has the virtuous German characters under siege in a sort of manor.
Polish Wikipedia in an article on it mentions it was never translated into Polish – perhaps not surprisingly.
It probably wouldn't be helpful. It'd be interesting to read, though. Trace the role of 'Poland' in German nationalist thought.
'...Polish Wikipedia in an article on it mentions it was never translated into Polish – perhaps not surprisingly.'
Who was there in Germany in 1939-45 who actually advocated a ‘good neighbor’ policy towards the Poles?
Nobody – the German officers I referred to in an earlier post were pragmatically interested in building bridges to Poles, especially as the Red Army was getting closer, but “good neighbour” would be overdoing it. Incidentally the collaborator they addressed, Jan Emil Skiwski, managed to escape to Venezuela at war’s end and died there in 1956.
Violent clashes over territory, especially in Silesia, at the end of WW1 didn’t do much for relations. There was a certain amount of animosity well before that. Frederick the Great picked up some Polish territory in the First Partition in 1772 and negatively compared the Poles he acquired to the Iroquois of North America. A 19th century German novelist featured German conflict with Poles in one of his novels, including with a devious Catholic priest named Gorka, although the novel is as much anti-Catholic as anything else.
That reminds me of the way Poles are portrayed in Dostoevski's The Gambler. Definitely contemptible.
A 19th century German novelist featured German conflict with Poles in one of his novels, including with a devious Catholic priest named Gorka, although the novel is as much anti-Catholic as anything else.
In a nutshell, Hitler wanted to be friends with the English, humiliate the French, and crush the Poles. It's all pretty interesting -- particularly if one considers Hitler's first encounter with the English. His regiment took 80% casualties in the Kindermord bei Ypern. That would have inculcated lasting respect.
'The German “New Order” was not trying to make friends in Poland, that’s for sure. For comparison, French fascists were encouraged under the German occupation of that country...'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Radical_Organization
Noticeable that even this highly pro-German organisation was not tolerated after spring 1940. Probably because it still counted as a Polish organisation as opposed to a German one.
It'd be interesting to hear what John Wear et al have to say about that. Pretty obviously, a Hitler with any interests at all in even the most submissive imaginable Poland would have at least tolerated the NOR.Instead, the Germans rounded up the leaders and shot them along with other possible sources of Polish nationalism.
'...In March 1940, NOR collaborated with German forces to orchestrate the Easter Pogrom, attacking Jewish homes and businesses in Warsaw. Members urged Poles to join the pogroms, align with NOR, and support Nazi efforts against the Soviet Union. They blamed the 1939 September campaign defeat on the Sanation party and endorsed ceding western territories to Germany...'
'...After the General Government’s civil administration assumed control and Hitler banned cooperation with Polish political groups in April 1940, NOR lost Nazi support. In May 1940, authorities arrested Świetlicki, imprisoning him in Pawiak. On June 20, 1940, Germans executed him, alongside NOR activists Wojciech Kwasieborski and Tadeusz Lipkowski, in the Palmiry massacre...'
This seems to be the M.O. of the revisionists when it comes to Poland, and Germany's conquest thereof.
The Tczew bridge wasn’t even blown up until several hours after heavy fighting had started. A German attempt to seize the bridge before this happened was thwarted.
The German “New Order” was not trying to make friends in Poland, that’s for sure. For comparison, French fascists were encouraged under the German occupation of that country, though the Germans also fostered rivalries among the various groups. Far from being allowed to organise, Polish fascists featured on German kill lists.
I’m not a fan of “alternative history” but the Germans could have reached out to the anti-Semitic and anti-Bolshevik attitudes of so many Poles. Instead they chose to crush the Poles underfoot – even Polish collaborators were required to adopt German identity. According to an account of Polish collaboration in an issue of The New York Review Of Books in 1995, some German army officers approached a Polish collaborator with them quite late in the war and asked what they could to improve relations with Poles. The collaborator told them it was just too damn late.
In a nutshell, Hitler wanted to be friends with the English, humiliate the French, and crush the Poles. It's all pretty interesting -- particularly if one considers Hitler's first encounter with the English. His regiment took 80% casualties in the Kindermord bei Ypern. That would have inculcated lasting respect.
'The German “New Order” was not trying to make friends in Poland, that’s for sure. For comparison, French fascists were encouraged under the German occupation of that country...'
You select evidence so as to make it appear that the fierce bad Poles forced war upon peace-loving Germany.
'...The Poles blew up the Dirschau (Tczew) bridge across the Vistula River even though the eastern approach to the bridge was in German territory. The Poles also occupied a number of Danzig installations and engaged in fighting with the citizens of Danzig on the same day. Henderson reported that Hitler was not insisting on the total military defeat of Poland. Hitler was prepared to terminate hostilities if the Poles indicated that they were willing to negotiate a satisfactory settlement. (Source: Ibid., pp. 537, 577).
The Tczew bridge wasn’t even blown up until several hours after heavy fighting had started. A German attempt to seize the bridge before this happened was thwarted.
This seems to be the M.O. of the revisionists when it comes to Poland, and Germany's conquest thereof.
The Tczew bridge wasn’t even blown up until several hours after heavy fighting had started. A German attempt to seize the bridge before this happened was thwarted.
You can get the French to go off the deep end; that veneer will crack if you hit hard enough. I've accomplished this. However, you have something of a point here.
'...Nowadays I read some dialogue on YT when I stumble upon an interesting article about those times. Some of the postings in response to the OP are by French, other’s by Poles. The difference between the two is absolutely astounding; with the French one can have a reasonable dialogue about the issue at hand whereas this is quite impossible with Polish posters.'
The Germans were more cruel and more oppressive in the East than in the West. Foreign workers in Germany from Western Europe were subject to varying qualities of treatment but were not expected to wear discriminatory badges. Poles and Ostvolk were. The former a yellow and purple badge with the letter P, the latter a badge with OST (“East”) on it. Poles were not even given a badge in the national colours white and red – the Nazis feared Polish nationalism.
To say the least. He may be overlooking other factors, but Mazower, in Hitler's Empire, points out that Germany milked France far more effectively than she milked Poland. In fact, France was kind of pathetic. In the name of 'collaboration,' they allowed the Germans to siphon massive amounts of goods and labor from them -- all for nil cost. Of course Germany had to garrison the coast against Allied invasion, but they would have had to do that regardless. '6000' sticks in my mind as the total number of personnel Germany had to devote to actual security concerns in France.Of course, it all goes to show the shortcomings of ideology. In the East, the Germans felt compelled to pursue their racial agenda. In the West -- in France, in particular -- they just treated the cow in the way that would yield the most milk.Czechoslovakia may be another example. In the upshot, docile Czech workers kept churning out vital armaments for the Germans, while Slovakia fielded a passable division that participated in Fall Blau with some success. That all fell apart at the end -- but then, that was the end anyway.
'The Germans were more cruel and more oppressive in the East than in the West...'
You're mistaken. Obviously, you haven't read about the shenanigans the Zionists got up to during the war.
'...It’s not a secret that during the war anyone who had reason to be an enemy of Hitler gave this the top priority. The divisions between Communists and Zionists only became important after the Wehrmacht had been defeated. That should go without saying.'
The more radical Zionists didn’t even wait for WW2 to end before killing Lord Moyne, in November 1944. The Germans were the Germans, but these Zionists prioritized ending the British mandate.
In fact the film is Forbidden Songs, Little Red Apple is the title of the song of the street singer.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oz6W5d5TdL8
Clip from Little Red Apple from 1946, one of the first Polish films after war’s end. Note the contemptuous reference to the Volksdeutsch…
Also obvious bullet holes in the building behind, though I am not sure which city this was filmed in.
Wrong YouTube. Elvis was cool but not Polish…
I was wondering about that. Looks like it could substantiate my argument about Americans stationed in Germany, though.
'Wrong YouTube. Elvis was cool but not Polish…'
I also remember what could be called ruling circles in the UK, including Thatcher, not regarding German reunification with unmixed delight. Germany had been an enemy but divided into two, even if the eastern part was on the other side, it was much less dangerous. German reunification in contrast was rather worrisome.
Tarantino’s film has those Jewish revenge elements, though in one scene, a British lieutenant who is a German film buff, a British general and Winston Churchill touch on the Germans referring to Jewish-controlled Hollywood and nobody contradicts the idea…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto_Nathan
An Italian Jew born in England, and a keen Freemason, he became mayor of Rome before WW1. Unlikely to have been welcome to the Papacy…
Hebrew. Ichabod literally means “no honour”.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ichabod
There wouldn't be any such thing as a Polish wet dream or a French wet dream, would there? Italian wet dream? Greek wet dream?No...I suppose their aspirations are reasonable and sane.Replies: @Wielgus
'Therefore, as with previous German wet dreams, any attempt to implement this scenario could end in disaster, not only for Europe but for the world.'
Perhaps not wet dream exactly but this clip from Pan Tadeusz encapsulates Polish nationalism well. Including its paradoxes – the most famous line in Polish literature is included. “Lithuania, my fatherland, you are like health.” Note also the camera panning over the picture of Napoleon – it is 1812, and the Poles were the second-largest contingent in Napoleon’s invasion of Russia.
Another factor would be that the Cold War saw a lot of American draftees stationed in Germany -- and they often found Germans pretty congenial. It wasn't unheard of for American soldiers to bring home a German bride. Mildly kitschy German restaurants are a kind of 1960-65 artifact; there's a good one in Coos Bay.Post-1991, the evil German trope became a lot more plausible.Replies: @Wielgus
My take on this is that the “bad German” theme was to some extent kept under control during the Cold War. There was a desire not to antagonise the West Germans, and “good Germans” were also brought forward.
This consideration was no longer necessary after the Wall came down and the Soviet Union collapsed.
I’ve mentioned this before, but you would hardly believe this was made less than 20 years after WW2 ended.
Well, (1) we didn't suffer unduly from the Third Reich, (2) we had a lot of pretty congenial contact with the Germans in the Fifties and Sixties, and (3) one of our more attractive national characteristics is a willingness to let bygones be bygones. See also the aftermath of the American Civil War, and our treatment of the Japanese post-war.
I’ve mentioned this before, but you would hardly believe this was made less than 20 years after WW2 ended.
That year, he rented the Folies-Marigny Theater for the summer and put on a play that shut down after just two weeks. He never paid back the concessionaires who had put down deposits, and although he was caught, he avoided trial when World War I broke out.
Sounds like a possible real-life inspiration for The Producers.
Maybe it was.
That year, he rented the Folies-Marigny Theater for the summer and put on a play that shut down after just two weeks. He never paid back the concessionaires who had put down deposits, and although he was caught, he avoided trial when World War I broke out.
Sounds like a possible real-life inspiration for The Producers.
An explanation deriving from documented observations, as in the case of the Odessa trade union house fire and the skirmishes that immediately preceded it, necessarily has to occur after the incident ("later"). This is in contrast to the usual methodology of Russian and Israeli propaganda, in which a fake narrative is already prepared before a planned event, so as to immediately shape the subsequent public perception. However, since the fire in Odessa happened unexpectedly, but much of what happened was captured on video due to the ubiquity of smart phones, the only recourse for Russia was to then saturate the media with their standard lies of victimhood, coupled with generic but transparently false accusations. Since it is too difficult or impossible to contradict the documented circumstances described in the BBC news report, you resort instead to your usual hysterical response of ridiculing a constructed straw-man, disguised as an unjustified ad hominem attack, so that any critical reader will understand the irrefutability of the fact that the pro-Russian hooligans provoked and initiated the attacks and some of their more violent or hot-headed cohorts, who lacked experience throwing Molotov Cocktails, wound up destroying themselves. Though not everyone would conclude that these agitators deserved this fate, the notion that they had been massacred by pro-Ukrainian activists emerges as completely ridiculous.Replies: @Commentator Mike
"The lies began later..."
Even the BBC reports that the Russophobes were throwing Molotov cocktails at the Trade Union building after ethnic Russians were forced to shelter in it, and there are pictures clearly showing that. the The Russophobes clearly started the fires on the ground floor by flinging the petrol bombs at the building.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27275383?ysclid=mhbys21zj1568466703
They do state that there may have been a fire started accidentally on the third floor by someone throwing a Molotov cocktail from the inside at a window.
You are not giving the full picture and just repeating the lies of Kiev propagandists.
Now about Bucha, what is your take on that?
Those who were throwing Molotov Cocktails outdoors did not cause the indoor fire that killed the pro-Russian hooligans, so that was not pertinent to the deaths that occurred, which was the issue I was addressing.
"...a fire started accidentally on the third floor by someone throwing a Molotov cocktail from the inside at a window."
It'd be interesting to examine that theory. In both Is Paris Burning? (1966) and A Bridge Too Far (1977) Germans are portrayed as reasonably sympathetic figures.
One would think that the further historical events recede into the past, the likely result would be more objectivity. If you watch war movies made during WWII, they are obvious propaganda. As time passed, however, war movies became more objective. The Germans were not necessarily nice guys, but they weren’t portrayed as demons. They were simply the opponents. Then, I think, around the time of the Holocaust mini-series (1978), the portrayals reverted to demonization...
My take on this is that the “bad German” theme was to some extent kept under control during the Cold War. There was a desire not to antagonise the West Germans, and “good Germans” were also brought forward.
This consideration was no longer necessary after the Wall came down and the Soviet Union collapsed.
Another factor would be that the Cold War saw a lot of American draftees stationed in Germany -- and they often found Germans pretty congenial. It wasn't unheard of for American soldiers to bring home a German bride. Mildly kitschy German restaurants are a kind of 1960-65 artifact; there's a good one in Coos Bay.Post-1991, the evil German trope became a lot more plausible.Replies: @Wielgus
My take on this is that the “bad German” theme was to some extent kept under control during the Cold War. There was a desire not to antagonise the West Germans, and “good Germans” were also brought forward.
This consideration was no longer necessary after the Wall came down and the Soviet Union collapsed.
I don't think that was in the cards. Poles aren't Czechs -- and they were not about to go quietly into that good night.
'...If Hitler had simply left Czechoslovakia alone and sought a similar agreement to Munich with Poland, then he could have gained the sympathies of people like Neville Chamberlain and Jerzy Potocki. With something similar to Munich worked over Danzig, there would have been no war over that.
At a tangent somewhat, but this is a clip from Andrzej Wajda’s film of Pan Tadeusz which is generally regarded as the Polish national epic, written by Adam Mickiewicz. Polish cavalry, alongside Napoleon’s Guard, are preparing to invade Russia – it is 1812.
18th and 19th century, Scots and Irish were definitely over-represented. In theory Catholic Irish were not supposed to be recruited in the 18th century into the British Army, but often the recruiting sergeants would overlook this, or else Catholic recruits would claim to be Protestant and the claim was accepted without further investigation. Being too strict on the religion question might have encouraged Catholic Irish males to go to France or Spain to join Irish regiments there, which was not desirable.
Re ethnic surveys of the British military today, this is something I need to investigate, but recruits from places like Fiji have been accepted into the British Army, allegedly because indigenous British, and not necessarily just White soldiers but also Blacks or Asians, were not joining the British Army in sufficient numbers. As to the RAF and the Royal Navy, both requiring more technical knowledge in most cases than the Army, I also don’t know the ethnic composition.
This may not be quite true.
Our ‘minorities’ also died in the Vietnam war disproportionately
It is true that blacks contributed causalities in Vietnam more nearly to their participation rate than in any other major US conflicts, though. According to Moskos's and Butler's Table 1.2, the highest proportional black casualty contribution was in the 1983 Lebanon War (mainly Marines getting blown up in their barracks). The black casualty contribution there was 18.1% at a time when they were 19.1% of active duty military personnel.
For many years, critics of heavy black representation in the Army have claimed that Afro-Americans have been used by their country as cannon fodder, an argument that had incredible emotional resonance during the Vietnam War. We have conducted a thorough analysis of Vietnam casualty rates and can report definitively that this charge is untrue (see table 1.2). Black fatalities amounted to 12.1 percent of all Americans killed in Southeast Asia — a figure proportional to the number of blacks in the U.S. population at the time and slightly lower than the proportion of blacks in the Army at the close of the war.
Scots have tended to be recruited disproportionately into the British Army. I remember ads frequently being run on Scottish TV. Attitudes were not necessarily positive – the British Army was widely seen as a destination for people physically fit enough to pass a medical but unlikely to get a job anywhere else. This attitude developed after National Service ended c.1960.
were evil pagan worshippers, some of whom sacrificed babies to their god, and that was thousands of years ago.
So the OT says. Of course if I was the ideology chief for a bunch of predatory goat herders and some other tribe had something we wanted, I would probably write how evil they were to justify taking it from them. Which is essentially what the OT is, especially the more blood-curdling passages.
But with Islam, the people Allah aka Satan commands them to kill, ARE YOU AND ME, TODAY!
My neighbourhood is 40% Muslim. I feel terribly threatened by all the little Somali ladies in burqas… not. If it’s a matter of them being alien in some way, I also encounter Haredim who are just as different from me as the Somalis are. Even if they live mostly a bit further down the road…
Kubrick’s film did have such a scene but it did not make the final cut. I don’t know if it features in deleted scenes from the film, on DVD.
George Orwell, I think in Down And Out In Paris And London, mentions going into an eatery in London, shortly after returning from France, and he sees a Jew there “guiltily wolfing bacon”. He doesn’t specify how he knew he was a Jew – possibly he had on Orthodox black clothes or Hasidic garb. Ludicrously this piece of Orwell’s writings has been accused of being anti-Semitism.
Judaism was on its way out at a rate of knots among American Jews -- but then something went wrong.
'Wasn’t it interesting that when Jack & Mary Livingston Benny ate at a diner on the radio or TV that they always ordered ham & cheese sandwiches?'
Those were the days when many Jews were trying to be as American as possible. Also whoever ran the programme would have been aware Jews were only a small minority of the audience. While Benny and Livingstone did not hide that they were Jewish, they did not emphasize it either. Livingstone, born Sadya Marcowitz, took on a quite WASPy name.
During the 1960s the Rabbinate became very concerned over this, and reasserted their authority. The change can be tracked in back issues of the Village Voice, where assimilation vs. takeover was, to an extent, debated.
Those were the days when many Jews were trying to be as American as possible.
Germany was ready to potentially overrun France in six weeks.Replies: @Wielgus
'...Germany was ready to potentially overrun Germany in six weeks...'
That’s what I assumed you meant, but the four-minute window to edit statements is not really enough, I find.
One would think this man held some manner of sympathy/empathy/common cause with NS Germany, but something tells me his legacy has been co-opted for a sinister purpose, and whilst he certainly may have objected to the methods of the National Socialists, like every other “Shoah victim,” his personal circumstances and experiences have been exaggerated and/or twisted with outright falsehoods.
While in Rome, Kolbe witnessed vehement demonstrations by Freemasons against Pope Pius X and later Pope Benedict XV.In 1926, in the first issue of the monthly Knight of the Immaculate, Kolbe said he considered Freemasons "as an organized clique of fanatical Jews, who want to destroy the church." In a 1924 column, he cited the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as an "important proof" that "the founders of Zionism intended, in fact, the subjugation of the entire world", but that "not even all Jews know this.” In…[the] Militia of the Immaculate, published in an edition of a million in 1939, Kolbe wrote, Atheistic Communism seems to rage ever more wildly. Its origin can easily be located in that criminal mafia that calls itself Freemasonry, and the hand that is guiding all that toward a clear goal is international Zionism. Which should not be taken to mean that even among Jews one cannot find good people.In his periodicals, Kolbe published articles about topics such as a Zionist plot for world domination. [Wiki]
Well, there was a war on, yes? He was a publisher and radio operator, yes? He would have certainly and legitimately piqued the interests of an occupying force.Wiki - After the Germans captured Niepokalanów, they arrested Kolbe on 19 September 1939. While in custody, Kolbe refused to sign the Deutsche Volksliste…The Germans released him on 8 December 1939.Upon his release, he continued work at his friary where he and other friars provided shelter to refugees from Greater Poland, including 2,000 Jews whom he hid from Nazi persecution in the Niepokalanów friary. Kolbe received permission to continue publishing religious works, though significantly reduced in scope. The monastery continued to act as a publishing house, issuing a number of publications considered anti-Nazi.Ok, so I wonder why Kolbe wasn’t eliminated in 1939? Perhaps the Germans eventually felt threatened because he was, in fact, undermining the German war effort? It seems to me he was given quarter and permitted to succor and administer to suffering civilians, but he clearly breached the terms of conduct likely imposed upon him on conditions for release.Back to Wiki: On 17 February 1941, the Gestapo shut down the monastery and arrested Kolbe along with four others. He was incarcerated in the Pawiak prison in Warsaw. On 28 May 1941, the Germans transferred Kolbe to the Auschwitz concentration camp…So, how was Kolbe eliminated?At the end of July 1941, a prisoner successfully escaped from Auschwitz. In reprisal, the deputy camp commander…ordered guards to pick ten men to be starved to death in an underground bunker…. When selected, Franciszek Gajowniczek, a Polish Catholic, cried out, "My wife! My children!" At that moment, Kolbe volunteered to take his place.Impatient to empty the bunker, the guards gave the four remaining prisoners lethal injections of carbolic acid. Kolbe is said to have raised his left arm and calmly waited for it. Maximilian Kolbe died on 14 August 1941.What a story! It’s up there with those Flying Apples, Human Soap, and Truckloads of Bayonetted/Dismembered Babies in terms of being True In The Mind Of A Jew…An underground bunker? Would this be the same subterranean bunker wherein Rudolf Höss kept his Jewish sex slave, who eventually became pregnant and was then ordered into a gas chamber, from which she somehow managed to survive/escape? Or, maybe it was the “bunker” in the basement of Block 11 wherein Sonderkommando Dario Gabbai helped to gas and kill tens of thousands of victims at once and in a timespan of 20-30 minutes, and who were then removed, lickety-split, with the hook end of a cane to empty the chamber for the next batch…BTW, Dario Gabbai was a “Jew” at Auschwitz who failed to describe a single detail of his Bar Mitzvah, although he was “sure I had one.” My point is - the discrepancies and fabrications are rife within the “Holocaust” narratives, and that’s precisely WHY inquiry is either illegal or considered hate speech.
makes me wonder what kind of state authority would feel so threatened by a Franciscan with TB
No, there were no underground bunkers at Auschwitz. The so-called "bunkers" at Auschwitz-Birkenau are two former farmhouses just outside the camp's perimeter. They are claimed to have been the first homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz, but this claim is based on rumors and post-war witness testimony, which has been debunked. [Internet AI not through Google]
What, then, is the purpose of a hospital, library, soccer field, theatre, children’s ward, etc., in an extermination camp?Replies: @Wielgus
You say not exterminatory, all lies
What, then, is the purpose of a hospital, library, soccer field, theatre, children’s ward, etc., in an extermination camp?
Depends who is using them. The guards, perhaps? Favoured prisoners, trusties, some of whom had a greater reputation for brutality than the SS, though ultimately under their orders? At the time of Kolbe’s murder, Auschwitz was relatively new as a facility and most of the inmates were Poles. It expanded significantly in the next few years, including the most exterminatory part, Birkenau. And took in a much more international clientele. Children’s ward? Offspring of guards, maybe? Or, if children of inmates, Mengele needed them for his experiments, perhaps?
You want to know why they did not kill him in 1939? Well, they certainly killed others. They just did not get around to him then, or the fact that he was half-German by background made them hesitate. After all, the Third Reich never formulated a clear policy on half-Jews or quarter-Jews, because of arguments as to whether the German or the Jewish part mattered more. So a half-Jew might be serving in the German armed forces while their Jewish parent was being killed in Auschwitz. Perhaps initially they thought they could get Kolbe to register as a German.
In addition, the Third Reich became more murderous after the start of Barbarossa and Kolbe was likely a victim of this.
“He was a publisher and radio operator, yes?” Well, he would have needed a printing press to publish, not an easy item to hide, and ditto with radio broadcasting equipment. The occupation authority would have confiscated them because all such equipment needed to be licensed. But Imprisoning Kolbe in Pawiak and then Auschwitz was hardly inevitable. I repeat – the Third Reich regarded a Franciscan with TB and one functioning lung as a threat. You do not convince me that he was, unless the Third Reich hated Catholic Christianity, especially as exercised by Poles, which I suspect is the real reason Kolbe was in Auschwitz.
“Something tells me his legacy has been co-opted for a sinister purpose” If that sinister purpose is making the Third Reich look bad, nobody forced the Third Reich to imprison a Polish Franciscan with TB and one functioning lung in Auschwitz. And then kill him. He lasted all of three months there. Soccer field, theatre, children’s ward or not. I am surprised you didn’t mention the swimming pool…
Definitely. Barbarossa signaled the conflict moving into total war. No more Mister Nice Guy.
'In addition, the Third Reich became more murderous after the start of Barbarossa and Kolbe was likely a victim of this.'
“Forget about the Jews for two seconds.” Why? The problem with your diatribe about Muhammad is that the Old Testament is full of genocidal stuff. Amalekites etc. I remember reading it at the age of nine in the KJV translation and being rather shocked by it. The Book of Judges, the Levite using the remains of his concubine to start a war, etc.
Christian history won’t stand up to much scrutiny either, you know.
‘An unbiased media site that reports stories in the “Who, What, Why, When, Where, and How” format, with just facts and no spin, political leaning, bias, or opinion is what is needed.’
That wouldn’t help much. A lot of what the media does is to simply not report things. For example, hear about the two Israeli soldiers Hamas fighters killed on October 19th, ‘violating the cease fire’?
Quite likely you did. Hear about the seventeen Palestinians Israel killed on the 10th? The thirty five she killed on the 11th? The seven she killed on the 12th? The three she killed on the 13th? The six she killed on the 14th? The eight she killed on the 15th? The four she killed on the 16th? The eleven she killed on the 17th?
Perhaps not. It’s not just what you’re told; it’s that in combination with what you’re not told.
It'd actually be interesting to do the demographics on all mass killers -- numbers compared to total population. Deranged Christian whites? Muslims? Blacks? 'Transsexuals'? Hispanics? Asians? Democrats? Republicans? Native-born? Immigrants?
Were Sayed Farook or Tashfeen Malik black when they murdered 14 people? What about Omar Mateen? 49 dead. And there was Sayfullo Saipov who killed 8 on the streets of NYC. None black, all Moslems. I can do this all day if you want.
Richard Ramirez was Hispanic, had a rotten home life and seems to have been inspired by an older cousin who served in the Vietnam War and was involved in atrocities.
Your comment makes me think Ron Unz should put an “Idiot” button as an option. “Troll” just does not cover it.
If someone was putting up “Burn the Jews” stickers, you would presumably be upset. Incitement to hatred is incitement to hatred, after all. I am actually atheist but watching the Israelis at work in Gaza for two years, mostly killing Muslims, does not incline me to Islamophobia.
Ok, Noodle = Colin Wright = Wielgus = John Johnson, the term “Auschwitz-Birkenau extermination camp” is a falsification, in and of itself, but what else is problematic with the site you linked? What the hell is this nonsense?
documents… were falsified to conceal the exterminatory function of the camp
Stop Denial
Holocaust denial is not just a lie. It is a tool of ideological hatred, spread today primarily through social media. Its aim is the systematic erasure of the truth about the greatest crime in the history of Europe. Thanks to the new 'Stop Denial" tool, everyone can now easily take meaningful action to defend historical truth and the dignity of the victims of Auschwitz.
International Educational Conference on Memory in the 21st Century
Over 150 experts: researchers, museum professionals, teachers, representatives of memorial sites, and various organizations dealing with the history and memory of World War II, Auschwitz, the Holocaust, and other genocides, gathered from June 30 to July 2, 2025, to reflect on the state of memory and its role in the face of the challenges posed by the modern world.
In other words:
We, Survivors, know that the consequence of being an alien is active persecution. 80th anniversary of liberation of Auschwitz.
Stop asking so many questions and just swallow the BS we keep shoving down your throats. So what if we say 6 million - 2.9 million = 6 million?! Who says wood cottages can’t be used as homicidal gas chambers? Weren’t the Germans capable of inhuman feats of engineering and defying the laws of reason, physics, thermodynamics, and chemistry? We will TELL YOU exactly what to say to the deniers, so there’s no need to educate yourself on the details.
Everyone knows that the Jewish Memory is permanent, long, and vast, yet quite specific, in scope. The fact that neither Churchill, Eisenhower, de Gaulle, nor Patton had any recollection of homicidal gas chambers operating in Nazi extermination camps reflects the inferiority of the state of Gentile Memory. The fact that the allegations of homicidal gas chambers once operating in the camps “liberated” by western powers has been “forgotten” whilst those tales of gas chambers and death pits in the eastern camps, liberated by the Soviets, rage on and on and on is merely a feature of aforementioned Holocaust Denial, which is a feature of ideological hatred, which is just plain ol’ antisemitism, which has been around since the beginning of time for no reason whatsoever. So, if Shoah survivor, Irene Weiss, remembers that in the summer of 1944, every child brought to Auschwitz-Birkenau was killed within a half hour after arrival, and “There were no children in that place!” and if Shoah survivor, Paula Lebovics, remembers that she arrived to Auschwitz-Birkenau in the summer of 1944 as a 9 year old child and worked in the kitchen - well, there’s a Gentile lying about those two Jewish survivors and therefore we must form a Council of Memory to further bilk the remembrance and guilt-ridden donors and thereby face the challenges of Gentiles who refuse to swallow the BS we keep shoveling.
Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck.I didn't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying.Gradually I began to hate them.Replies: @Wielgus
It is a truth universally acknowledged, that every White Gentile in possession of a good nation, deserves to be inundated with all manner of savage and clever aliens until they are eliminated from this earth because long ago, and our Memory is quite long, THEY (although we dispute that White Gentiles were actually around anywhere when Humanity arrived according to the Torah/Bible) destroyed our Temple, and THEY protested against our sneaky business practices and peculiar mannerisms/sacrificial rituals and all that well-poisoning and central banking and war harvesting and media company gobbling and chronic assassinations and Palestinian genociding and BS shoveling.
Maximilian Kolbe was a Franciscan with TB and one functioning lung. Some here are trying to say he died of his pre-existing infirmities rather than being helped into everlasting life by the SS. He was detained in Pawiak Prison, Warsaw first of all, then later sent to Auschwitz. You say not exterminatory, all lies. But Kolbe’s survival chances were hardly great in a place like Pawiak. Sending him to Auschwitz? Good chance he would not come back alive from there. And he didn’t.
Musing over the health condition of Maximilian Kolbe also makes me wonder what kind of state authority would feel so threatened by a Franciscan with TB and one functioning lung that even Pawiak was not considered a sufficient place of detention.
One would think this man held some manner of sympathy/empathy/common cause with NS Germany, but something tells me his legacy has been co-opted for a sinister purpose, and whilst he certainly may have objected to the methods of the National Socialists, like every other “Shoah victim,” his personal circumstances and experiences have been exaggerated and/or twisted with outright falsehoods.
While in Rome, Kolbe witnessed vehement demonstrations by Freemasons against Pope Pius X and later Pope Benedict XV.In 1926, in the first issue of the monthly Knight of the Immaculate, Kolbe said he considered Freemasons "as an organized clique of fanatical Jews, who want to destroy the church." In a 1924 column, he cited the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as an "important proof" that "the founders of Zionism intended, in fact, the subjugation of the entire world", but that "not even all Jews know this.” In…[the] Militia of the Immaculate, published in an edition of a million in 1939, Kolbe wrote, Atheistic Communism seems to rage ever more wildly. Its origin can easily be located in that criminal mafia that calls itself Freemasonry, and the hand that is guiding all that toward a clear goal is international Zionism. Which should not be taken to mean that even among Jews one cannot find good people.In his periodicals, Kolbe published articles about topics such as a Zionist plot for world domination. [Wiki]
Well, there was a war on, yes? He was a publisher and radio operator, yes? He would have certainly and legitimately piqued the interests of an occupying force.Wiki - After the Germans captured Niepokalanów, they arrested Kolbe on 19 September 1939. While in custody, Kolbe refused to sign the Deutsche Volksliste…The Germans released him on 8 December 1939.Upon his release, he continued work at his friary where he and other friars provided shelter to refugees from Greater Poland, including 2,000 Jews whom he hid from Nazi persecution in the Niepokalanów friary. Kolbe received permission to continue publishing religious works, though significantly reduced in scope. The monastery continued to act as a publishing house, issuing a number of publications considered anti-Nazi.Ok, so I wonder why Kolbe wasn’t eliminated in 1939? Perhaps the Germans eventually felt threatened because he was, in fact, undermining the German war effort? It seems to me he was given quarter and permitted to succor and administer to suffering civilians, but he clearly breached the terms of conduct likely imposed upon him on conditions for release.Back to Wiki: On 17 February 1941, the Gestapo shut down the monastery and arrested Kolbe along with four others. He was incarcerated in the Pawiak prison in Warsaw. On 28 May 1941, the Germans transferred Kolbe to the Auschwitz concentration camp…So, how was Kolbe eliminated?At the end of July 1941, a prisoner successfully escaped from Auschwitz. In reprisal, the deputy camp commander…ordered guards to pick ten men to be starved to death in an underground bunker…. When selected, Franciszek Gajowniczek, a Polish Catholic, cried out, "My wife! My children!" At that moment, Kolbe volunteered to take his place.Impatient to empty the bunker, the guards gave the four remaining prisoners lethal injections of carbolic acid. Kolbe is said to have raised his left arm and calmly waited for it. Maximilian Kolbe died on 14 August 1941.What a story! It’s up there with those Flying Apples, Human Soap, and Truckloads of Bayonetted/Dismembered Babies in terms of being True In The Mind Of A Jew…An underground bunker? Would this be the same subterranean bunker wherein Rudolf Höss kept his Jewish sex slave, who eventually became pregnant and was then ordered into a gas chamber, from which she somehow managed to survive/escape? Or, maybe it was the “bunker” in the basement of Block 11 wherein Sonderkommando Dario Gabbai helped to gas and kill tens of thousands of victims at once and in a timespan of 20-30 minutes, and who were then removed, lickety-split, with the hook end of a cane to empty the chamber for the next batch…BTW, Dario Gabbai was a “Jew” at Auschwitz who failed to describe a single detail of his Bar Mitzvah, although he was “sure I had one.” My point is - the discrepancies and fabrications are rife within the “Holocaust” narratives, and that’s precisely WHY inquiry is either illegal or considered hate speech.
makes me wonder what kind of state authority would feel so threatened by a Franciscan with TB
No, there were no underground bunkers at Auschwitz. The so-called "bunkers" at Auschwitz-Birkenau are two former farmhouses just outside the camp's perimeter. They are claimed to have been the first homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz, but this claim is based on rumors and post-war witness testimony, which has been debunked. [Internet AI not through Google]
What, then, is the purpose of a hospital, library, soccer field, theatre, children’s ward, etc., in an extermination camp?Replies: @Wielgus
You say not exterminatory, all lies
Don’t you want people to think the Third Reich was nice as pie to Catholic priests, even when they were those horrid Poles?
Thank you for the document. It is from a Polish Auschwitz archive. The same website carries this article:
https://www.auschwitz.org/historia/szpitale-obozowe/falszowanie-dokumentacji-szpitalnej/
It is in Polish but notes, in relation to the death of Kolbe and others, that documents on the cause of death were falsified to conceal the exterminatory function of the camp.
Ok, Noodle = Colin Wright = Wielgus = John Johnson, the term “Auschwitz-Birkenau extermination camp” is a falsification, in and of itself, but what else is problematic with the site you linked? What the hell is this nonsense?
documents… were falsified to conceal the exterminatory function of the camp
Stop Denial
Holocaust denial is not just a lie. It is a tool of ideological hatred, spread today primarily through social media. Its aim is the systematic erasure of the truth about the greatest crime in the history of Europe. Thanks to the new 'Stop Denial" tool, everyone can now easily take meaningful action to defend historical truth and the dignity of the victims of Auschwitz.
International Educational Conference on Memory in the 21st Century
Over 150 experts: researchers, museum professionals, teachers, representatives of memorial sites, and various organizations dealing with the history and memory of World War II, Auschwitz, the Holocaust, and other genocides, gathered from June 30 to July 2, 2025, to reflect on the state of memory and its role in the face of the challenges posed by the modern world.
In other words:
We, Survivors, know that the consequence of being an alien is active persecution. 80th anniversary of liberation of Auschwitz.
Stop asking so many questions and just swallow the BS we keep shoving down your throats. So what if we say 6 million - 2.9 million = 6 million?! Who says wood cottages can’t be used as homicidal gas chambers? Weren’t the Germans capable of inhuman feats of engineering and defying the laws of reason, physics, thermodynamics, and chemistry? We will TELL YOU exactly what to say to the deniers, so there’s no need to educate yourself on the details.
Everyone knows that the Jewish Memory is permanent, long, and vast, yet quite specific, in scope. The fact that neither Churchill, Eisenhower, de Gaulle, nor Patton had any recollection of homicidal gas chambers operating in Nazi extermination camps reflects the inferiority of the state of Gentile Memory. The fact that the allegations of homicidal gas chambers once operating in the camps “liberated” by western powers has been “forgotten” whilst those tales of gas chambers and death pits in the eastern camps, liberated by the Soviets, rage on and on and on is merely a feature of aforementioned Holocaust Denial, which is a feature of ideological hatred, which is just plain ol’ antisemitism, which has been around since the beginning of time for no reason whatsoever. So, if Shoah survivor, Irene Weiss, remembers that in the summer of 1944, every child brought to Auschwitz-Birkenau was killed within a half hour after arrival, and “There were no children in that place!” and if Shoah survivor, Paula Lebovics, remembers that she arrived to Auschwitz-Birkenau in the summer of 1944 as a 9 year old child and worked in the kitchen - well, there’s a Gentile lying about those two Jewish survivors and therefore we must form a Council of Memory to further bilk the remembrance and guilt-ridden donors and thereby face the challenges of Gentiles who refuse to swallow the BS we keep shoveling.
Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck.I didn't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying.Gradually I began to hate them.Replies: @Wielgus
It is a truth universally acknowledged, that every White Gentile in possession of a good nation, deserves to be inundated with all manner of savage and clever aliens until they are eliminated from this earth because long ago, and our Memory is quite long, THEY (although we dispute that White Gentiles were actually around anywhere when Humanity arrived according to the Torah/Bible) destroyed our Temple, and THEY protested against our sneaky business practices and peculiar mannerisms/sacrificial rituals and all that well-poisoning and central banking and war harvesting and media company gobbling and chronic assassinations and Palestinian genociding and BS shoveling.
The General Government was called the “Gangster Ground” by the Germans. They acted like gangsters, confiscating furs so the Poles could cope a little less well with their cold winters (and it has clearly been snowing where Mrs. Frank is).
I read a Soviet article about Alekhine in the mid-1980s – it played down his attendance at Nazi-organised tournaments. An article Alekhine wrote during the war complaining of Jewish influence in the chess world has sometimes been claimed to be a forgery but I suspect it is genuine.
The Hungarian Gedeon Barcza also took part in a major tournament organised by Frank in the General Government. Interestingly he seems not to have had major trouble about it after the war – being one of Hungary’s best chess players perhaps protected him from charges of fascist collaboration. He played Bobby Fischer and lost in 1962.
I will allow Frank one saving grace – he was a keen chess player. Goebbels apparently complained about him wasting precious resources on running a chess tournament in the General Government:
https://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/frank.html
Incidentally, I think one of the photos shows Hitler leaving his fortress imprisonment, accompanied by his lawyer, Frank. Hitler looks rather pudgy. He ate better than most Germans of the 1920s while in jail, but did not get much exercise.
Let’s see the documentation, if it exists.
The wily Nazis forged currency on a large scale, using concentration camp inmates. Forging documents would be child’s play for them, and killing inmates and then giving “natural” causes of death even more so, I understand from some accusation at Nuremberg that they were cynical enough to have people die in alphabetical order, according to the documentation. Kolbe was first held in Pawiak Prison, Warsaw, where people also died or were executed, but his chance of developing “heart insufficiency” was even greater in Auschwitz, a much deadlier place.
Bottom line – you want people to believe Auschwitz was a holiday resort, or at least a normal place of confinement. If the Communists had killed Kolbe I doubt whether you would find it “cartoonish”. As I noted before, the scepticism would not be available in such a case.
That the Third Reich killed people, including Roman Catholic clergy, is not “outlandish” at all. If there is documentation of the type you mention, I would like to see it – since I can read German, as well as Russian and Polish, I can certainly subject it to scrutiny.
Even if they did take him out of the bunker for an X-ray, this would merely point to some indecision about what to do with him – after all, Kolbe was half-German even by Nazi standards. The food and water aspect seems to make you sceptical, but prison hunger strikers have typically gone without food for two months or more before dying, and maybe a sympathetic trusty gave Kolbe and the others water when no-one was looking.
If you can show Kolbe survived the summer of 1941 and was released from Auschwitz, I might be impressed, but I suspect you can’t.
Kolbe had one working lung and was in poor health, correct. Which did not exclude him from heavy labour details in Auschwitz because the overseer, a certain “Bloody” Krott, was told to “get those parasites working”.
If Kolbe had been killed by “Judeo-Bolsheviks” as opposed to by “the defenders of Western civilisation”, you would not be on deck with such scepticism, I suspect.
You're mentally disturbed.Replies: @Wielgus, @Jameson
'Wise people know that seeing women covered in trash bags in the West is like seeing a few small spots on your arm. The spots, it turns out, will end up being a fatal cancer that will kill you, no cure, death awaits...'
He’s not alone. The anonymous sticker poster around my way has escalated to “BURN THE MUSLIMS”. I carry a roll of Palestinian stickers to cover over such religious “critiques” spilling over into murderous psychosis…
To be frank, in Airstrip One and in Western Europe, I could see the response. I wouldn't share it, but I understand it.But we don't have that many Muslims over here in God's Country. Islamophobes here just want to hate. Creatures like Jameson probably haven't seen anyone in a burka in the last month.I've lived in some cosmopolitan areas in the US over the course of my life: LA, the San Francisco Bay Area. I've also been in every US state but Maine. In that time I have seen no one in a burka, perhaps three individuals with the bottom of their face covered, and maybe five wearing some kind of distinctively Islamic scarf. One might as well worry about Parsis.
He’s not alone. The anonymous sticker poster around my way has escalated to “BURN THE MUSLIMS”. I carry a roll of Palestinian stickers to cover over such religious “critiques” spilling over into murderous psychosis…