civil-devel Mailing List for Civil

...is totally dead again. Fucking crap...

-- 
    - "Remember -- that which does not kill us can only make us stronger."
    - "And that which does kill us leaves us dead!"
                                           -- Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum

Hi all,

As Gareth already said, the "credits" dialog is under construction. Or,
well, it's there already. It just lacks the gfx. Credits will be shown
from the first screen (that both the server player and the client player
see). It'll show an image that KorruptorWorks PixelStudio is currently
working on (the one YOU should contribute to by sending Gareth a picture
of yourself). So, it works already, but so far looks hideous... :)

I don't know wether I already mentioned this, but I also added an in-game
dialog that's triggered when a network error happens. Normally Civil just
exits and blurts out an error on stdout. This dialog informs the player of
the error and gives him/her an opportunity to do an emergency save of the
game. The saving doesn't yet work, but should be a matter of doing:

	ScenarioWriter().write ('emergency_save.xml')

It's the same code as the scenario editor uses.

-- 
    - "Remember -- that which does not kill us can only make us stronger."
    - "And that which does kill us leaves us dead!"
                                           -- Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum

Hi,

Ok, well, work is well underway on the credits screen. I have photo's =
for myself, Mike and Chakie, and Uwe has declined to appear. If anyone =
else wants in, email your photo to me in the next few days!

It's going to appear like an old photo with all of us lined up in front =
of some woods. The usual sepia/damaged look will be present...

One thing I would like to get is a copy of Mike and Chakie's signature =
to put just underneath their "Character". Either on paper (which I can =
scan) or a photo of one emailed. The signature would have to be in a =
felt-tip pen, or something reasonably wide so I have some freedom to =
scale it and play around. Quality isn't too important, as long as it's =
clearly visible (I can trace over it, or do other marvels...), but this =
would finish the picture off, and make a real nice touch...

Would you guys be able to do that? If you like, you can sign a piece of =
paper and snail-mail it to me. Contact me off list for an addy...

cheers

g

On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Gareth Noyce wrote:

>| "...forced chakie..." :) Sounds worse than it really is.
>
>Just going for dramatic effect... "And the young uber-coder was visibly
>shaken when removed from emacs for several consequtive minutes in order to
>perform _graphics_ type work...."  :-P

Aargh... It really is quite fun to do screenshots. I should add the
feature all over the place though. Right now you can press F12 while
in-game in most situations, but not in the setup dialogs...

>| >Looks like we have a small and dedicated following! Unless one of you
>| >guys has been running a dodgy perl script to get the numbers up...
>|
>| Ha! We should do some kind of script like that when we get close to
>| release, just to pump up those hits. 50k, here we come!
>
>Have broadband, will abuse!

Sounds great!

-- 
"It would seem that you have no useful skill or talent whatsoever," he said.
              "Have you thought of going into teaching?"  
                                                    -- Terry Pratchett, Mort

On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Gareth Noyce wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Just to reflect the sudden bursts of work that have been taking place,
>I've updated the website to reflect our new found TBS status, and forced
>chakie to take some screenshots of the new client/server dialogs. Just
>to show some progress has been made!

"...forced chakie..." :) Sounds worse than it really is.

>Other minor interesting news: the Civil website has now received over
>40,000 hits, with an average of 3,000+ a month for the last four months.

january has seen a decline in hits, but that's just because nothing has
happened on the site, and we haven't been mentioning the site too much in
our Advogato diaries.

>Looks like we have a small and dedicated following! Unless one of you
>guys has been running a dodgy perl script to get the numbers up...

Ha! We should do some kind of script like that when we get close to
release, just to pump up those hits. 50k, here we come!

-- 
"It would seem that you have no useful skill or talent whatsoever," he said.
              "Have you thought of going into teaching?"  
                                                    -- Terry Pratchett, Mort

Hi,

Just to reflect the sudden bursts of work that have been taking place, =
I've updated the website to reflect our new found TBS status, and forced =
chakie to take some screenshots of the new client/server dialogs. Just =
to show some progress has been made!

Other minor interesting news: the Civil website has now received over =
40,000 hits, with an average of 3,000+ a month for the last four months.

Looks like we have a small and dedicated following! Unless one of you =
guys has been running a dodgy perl script to get the numbers up...

G

Hi,

Today's additions include greatly improved menu handling. The menu is a
lot snappier and looks (imho) a little better. It's a lot easier to use
(as is asking questions) and gets rid of some of the horror stuff that was
hidden deep in there.

Also a lot of small bugs have been fixed in the state handling. And there
was much rejoicing.

-- 
    There were no public health laws in Ankh-Morpork. It would be like
                installing smoke detectors in Hell.
                                            -- Terry Pratchett, Feet of Clay

Hi,

For those who have ever looked at the code under state/ it has been a
little messy. Especially asking questions from the player has been complex
and hard to understand. It has used the state Question and messages send
using the pygame event mechanism. I rewrote that a bit so that all event
handling etc is in the Question class, and questions can be asked from the
user like this in all State subclasses:

        # ask the player for confirmation
        if self.askQuestion ( ['Do you really want to quit?' ] ):
            # the answer to our quit question was accepted, do it
             ...
        else:
	    # player does not want to quit
            ...

Look at a diff for src/state/idle.py to see how things were changed and
simplified.

-- 
        Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.
                                              -- Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

Hi folks,

I think we want a "Credits" screen in Civil somewhere. It should be simple
to create, and possibly just a static image (I know Gareth is up to
something wrt that). The problem is mainly where should it be put? I'd
like to smack in a button somewhere that triggers the screen. One idea is
to put it in the first shown window, i.e. where the players decide wether
they should act as the server or client. This is the only screen that both
players always see. It currently has only two buttons (Ok/Quit), so one
more would fit just fine.

Comments?

-- 

                  - "What're quantum mechanics?"
        - "I don't know. People who repair quantums, I suppose."
                                               -- Terry Pratchett, in Eric

On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, John Eikenberry wrote:

>Try ssh-agent with ssh-add. It makes it so you don't have to type in your
>ssh passphrase each time. Very handy.

Maybe I should RTFM a little. I usually use generated keys for hosts I
trust, but I don't trust SF, so I haven't used keys with it.


-- 

              Many an ancient lord's last words had been:
         "You can't kill me because I've got magic aaargh...."
                                      -- Terry Pratchett, Interesting Times

Try ssh-agent with ssh-add. It makes it so you don't have to type in your
ssh passphrase each time. Very handy.

Jan Ekholm wrote:

> On 23 Jan 2002, Michael Earl wrote:
> 
> >Hey, I just noticed my mail client has a "Reply to List" option that
> >works around the reply-to mangling of sourceforge.  Neato.
> >
> >Anyhow, no big concerns here with the CVS.  Maybe I just have low
> >expectations, or am on the same side of the Atlantic, or update/merge
> >less often, but sourceforge is conveinent for me.  I am kinda fond of
> >the web-based CVS brower, actually.  It's not a big deal, either way,
> >though.
> 
> It's no big problem, I just hate the 5-10s delays before ssh even asks me
> for a password when committing/updating. I don't think Gareth minds it
> either so let's keep it there. We're a fscking development country over
> here when it comes to bandwidth, and the transatlantic connection must be
> a serial cable. At least if feels that way. :)
> 
> -- 
>           "Yes, bugger all that." said Nanny. "Let's curse somebody."
>                                             -- Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Civil-devel mailing list
> Civ...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/civil-devel

-- 

John Eikenberry
[ja...@zh... - http://zhar.net]
______________________________________________________________
"They who can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary
 safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
                                          --B. Franklin

The code for surrendering works again. Tonight/tomorrow I'll update cease
fire too.

-- 
  "You can't trample infidels when you're a tortoise. I mean, all you could
                  do is give them a meaningful look."
                                              -- Terry Pratchett, Small Gods

As for mailers, I think I should migrate from Pine to Mutt. It does have
some kind of "correct" behavior for Reply-To. It's just that I love my
little Pine. Grown to like it over the last 7 years...

-- 
          "Yes, bugger all that." said Nanny. "Let's curse somebody."
                                            -- Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters

On 23 Jan 2002, Michael Earl wrote:

>Hey, I just noticed my mail client has a "Reply to List" option that
>works around the reply-to mangling of sourceforge.  Neato.
>
>Anyhow, no big concerns here with the CVS.  Maybe I just have low
>expectations, or am on the same side of the Atlantic, or update/merge
>less often, but sourceforge is conveinent for me.  I am kinda fond of
>the web-based CVS brower, actually.  It's not a big deal, either way,
>though.

It's no big problem, I just hate the 5-10s delays before ssh even asks me
for a password when committing/updating. I don't think Gareth minds it
either so let's keep it there. We're a fscking development country over
here when it comes to bandwidth, and the transatlantic connection must be
a serial cable. At least if feels that way. :)

-- 
          "Yes, bugger all that." said Nanny. "Let's curse somebody."
                                            -- Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters

Bollocks! Just as we talk about list replies, I send this to Mike only...
:-\

Apologies for the copy Mike!


| | Hey, I just noticed my mail client has a "Reply to List" option that
| | works around the reply-to mangling of sourceforge.  Neato.
|
| Lucky you! Time to change clients me thinks. I might go for Mutt, it
| compiles under OS X now... Looks like a bit of a bast to setup configure
| tho...
|
| | Anyhow, no big concerns here with the CVS.  Maybe I just have low
| | expectations, or am on the same side of the Atlantic, or update/merge
| | less often, but sourceforge is conveinent for me.  I am kinda fond of
| | the web-based CVS brower, actually.  It's not a big deal, either way,
| | though.
|
| Actually, I think the webCVS thing is pretty easy to setup and install.
Jan,
| would you be interested in adding that if we moved over to your server?
|
| G
|

Hey, I just noticed my mail client has a "Reply to List" option that
works around the reply-to mangling of sourceforge.  Neato.

Anyhow, no big concerns here with the CVS.  Maybe I just have low
expectations, or am on the same side of the Atlantic, or update/merge
less often, but sourceforge is conveinent for me.  I am kinda fond of
the web-based CVS brower, actually.  It's not a big deal, either way,
though.

 - mikee

On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Gareth Noyce wrote:

>| I now merged in my private branch of Civil CVS into the "official" CVS at
>| Sourceforge. I don't really like having CVS there, as it's so dead slow,
>| and I have no control over it whatsoever. I've been thinking about
>| developing using my own server and only periodically merge stuff in to the
>| SF CVS.
>
>Politically I'm not overly happy with the SF thing either. Atm we get some
>use out of their websapce, lists and cvs. Webspace is cheap, mailman easily
>installed, and the cvs; not a big deal. Bascially, I'm easy...

Stats etc can easily be gathered too. What SF gives is some kind of
"status" to a project. People know SF quite well, the url is easy to
remember etc.

>I'm assumming we'd just commit stuff to your server and do monthly (?)
>updates to the SF CVS tree?

>For the record I've had two/three days this week where I couldn't access
>EoM, SB, or Civil from SF. Crash reported the same thing... Their stats have
>been broken all week, and this reply-to munging has really got on my tits...

It's just an idea. It might just as well be the transatlantic wire that's
just crowded with warez d00Dz dowloading hA><0rd stuff.

-- 
  "You can't trample infidels when you're a tortoise. I mean, all you could
                  do is give them a meaningful look."
                                              -- Terry Pratchett, Small Gods

| I now merged in my private branch of Civil CVS into the "official" CVS at
| Sourceforge. I don't really like having CVS there, as it's so dead slow,
| and I have no control over it whatsoever. I've been thinking about
| developing using my own server and only periodically merge stuff in to the
| SF CVS.

Politically I'm not overly happy with the SF thing either. Atm we get some
use out of their websapce, lists and cvs. Webspace is cheap, mailman easily
installed, and the cvs; not a big deal. Bascially, I'm easy...

I'm assumming we'd just commit stuff to your server and do monthly (?)
updates to the SF CVS tree?

For the record I've had two/three days this week where I couldn't access
EoM, SB, or Civil from SF. Crash reported the same thing... Their stats have
been broken all week, and this reply-to munging has really got on my tits...

As long as I have a server to point at, I don't care where it is...

G

Hi,

I now merged in my private branch of Civil CVS into the "official" CVS at
Sourceforge. I don't really like having CVS there, as it's so dead slow,
and I have no control over it whatsoever. I've been thinking about
developing using my own server and only periodically merge stuff in to the
SF CVS.

Comments?

-- 

   Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.
                                            -- Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms

Hi all,

I did a small update today. Please have a look if you like. All/most
things don't yet work as meant, but the setup gui looks/works better than
ever.

The old code is tagged, so it can always be retrieved.

-- 

      Real children don't go hoppity-skip unless they are on drugs.
                          -- Susan Sto Helit, in Hogfather (Terry Pratchett)

On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Gareth Noyce wrote:

> Ok, I think I do know this; the interface for starting the AI is, um,
>| not so much bad as not written.
>
>:-)

A very PC way of saying that it sucks... :)

>It's a mac thing. Can't have two of the same app (in this case python)
>running at the same time... :-( Real pain in the arse...

Could you copy the interpreter to another file and run the other instance
using the copy? Hackus uglicus if it worked... :)

-- 

      Real children don't go hoppity-skip unless they are on drugs.
                          -- Susan Sto Helit, in Hogfather (Terry Pratchett)

On 17 Jan 2002, Michael Earl wrote:

>On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 13:39, TheG wrote:
>> The server puts out "Sending scenario 13 to client" then the AI dies...
>
>Ok, I think I do know this; the interface for starting the AI is, um,
>not so much bad as not written.

It should've worked fine, as I've used that for ages to test (much faster
than fidlding with two clients). The AI could crash when some weird plan
or command arrived though.

>The AI requires you to tell it the scenario (don't know why, the server
>knows, right?).  However, "scenario13.xml" isn't scenario #13; it's
>scenario #0.  (At least on my system.  YMMV.)  Check the scenarioinfo id
>tag in the scenario XML file for the actual scenario number to give the
>AI client on the command line.

Some updates now let the AI client be dumb. It just gets what's fed to it,
so it can't self specify the scenario nor side, just the host/port. Much
better, I think. No fiddling with ids or some other magic data.

-- 

      Real children don't go hoppity-skip unless they are on drugs.
                          -- Susan Sto Helit, in Hogfather (Terry Pratchett)

 Ok, I think I do know this; the interface for starting the AI is, um,
| not so much bad as not written.

:-)

| The AI requires you to tell it the scenario (don't know why, the =
server
| knows, right?).  However, "scenario13.xml" isn't scenario #13; it's
| scenario #0.  (At least on my system.  YMMV.)  Check the scenarioinfo =
id
| tag in the scenario XML file for the actual scenario number to give =
the
| AI client on the command line.

Ahhh, you know, I bet this is entirely the problem. I was passing 13
(civil-ai --rebel -- scenario=3D13). I'll give that a whirl tonight and =
see
what happens...

| That *should* fix it; I know I had the same problem.

Thanks for the tip...

|
| Odd you can't run two regular clients on MacOS X.  SDL issues?

It's a mac thing. Can't have two of the same app (in this case python)
running at the same time... :-( Real pain in the arse...

G

On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 13:39, TheG wrote:
> The server puts out "Sending scenario 13 to client" then the AI dies...

Ok, I think I do know this; the interface for starting the AI is, um,
not so much bad as not written.

The AI requires you to tell it the scenario (don't know why, the server
knows, right?).  However, "scenario13.xml" isn't scenario #13; it's
scenario #0.  (At least on my system.  YMMV.)  Check the scenarioinfo id
tag in the scenario XML file for the actual scenario number to give the
AI client on the command line.

That *should* fix it; I know I had the same problem.


Odd you can't run two regular clients on MacOS X.  SDL issues?

- mikee

What command line options did you use to lauch the AI client?  Looks
like there was a problem with scenario load/selection.... or a mismatch?

- mikee