civil-devel Mailing List for Civil

On Thu, 31 May 2001, Gareth Noyce wrote:

>Quoting Jan Ekholm <ch...@in...>:
>
>> Yep, when I get home I'll do it! It's a pain to 
>> run from home...
>
>
>:) Star...

And now there are two shots from the editor. The normal scenario11 should
work as normal if you want to have a look at that.

>I'll be having a long hard bash at graphics this 
>weekend as I'll be abroad for a week from the 8th 
>June.

For the Perl conference? That should be fun!

>I'm hoping to knock off a few more things from the 'list of things to
>do...' -- so you won't miss me when I'm away! ;-)

>I'll also sort out the running of the editor on 
>my Laptop. Then it's map creation time...

So we can expect to see some really marvelous maps arrive soon. Some day
when we are near done I think I'll sit down with a few maps of the smaller
real battles of the war, and try to model them if possible. Could be fun
too.

--------------------+--------------------------------------------------------
Jan 'Chakie' Ekholm |     Balrog New Media    http://www.balrog.fi/
   Linux Inside     | I'm the blue screen of death, nobody hears your screams

Quoting Jan Ekholm <ch...@in...>:

> Yep, when I get home I'll do it! It's a pain to 
> run from home...


:) Star...

I'll be having a long hard bash at graphics this 
weekend as I'll be abroad for a week from the 8th 
June.

I'm hoping to knock off a few more things from 
the 'list of things to do...' -- so you won't 
miss me when I'm away! ;-)

I'll also sort out the running of the editor on 
my Laptop. Then it's map creation time...

:)

G


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On Thu, 31 May 2001, Gareth Noyce wrote:

>> Now it runs. The new trees are not there, as 
>> the test I did yesterday
>> didn't succeed to save the scenario. The one I 
>> did a few days ago is
>> there
>> however, it just lacks the trees. Enjoy!
>
>Would it be rude to ask if you could bung a quick 
>grab up? I'm not gonna be able to update my tree 
>until tomorrow afternoon and I'm dying to see 
>what the stuff looks like...
>
>Sorry to be a pain... :-\

Yep, when I get home I'll do it! It's a pain to run from home...

--------------------+--------------------------------------------------------
Jan 'Chakie' Ekholm |     Balrog New Media    http://www.balrog.fi/
   Linux Inside     | I'm the blue screen of death, nobody hears your screams

> Now it runs. The new trees are not there, as 
> the test I did yesterday
> didn't succeed to save the scenario. The one I 
> did a few days ago is
> there
> however, it just lacks the trees. Enjoy!

Would it be rude to ask if you could bung a quick 
grab up? I'm not gonna be able to update my tree 
until tomorrow afternoon and I'm dying to see 
what the stuff looks like...

Sorry to be a pain... :-\

G


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On Thu, 31 May 2001, Gareth Noyce wrote:

>Is the new scenario (11?) you created running 
>under civil now? I've not tried to run things 
>since the scenario-manager update...

Now it runs. The new trees are not there, as the test I did yesterday
didn't succeed to save the scenario. The one I did a few days ago is there
however, it just lacks the trees. Enjoy!

--------------------+--------------------------------------------------------
Jan 'Chakie' Ekholm |     Balrog New Media    http://www.balrog.fi/
   Linux Inside     | I'm the blue screen of death, nobody hears your screams

On Thu, 31 May 2001, Gareth Noyce wrote:

>Quoting Jan Ekholm <ch...@in...>:
>
>> It all looks fine now! Please guys have a look 
>> if you can! Saving
>> scenarios is still a little bit fubar, as the 
>> units that get created
>> (if
>> you create units) are not yet fully valid, as 
>> they lack commanders and
>> weapons. I'll fix that too soon. Otherwise 
>> objectives can now be fully
>> edited, added and removed. Placing units and 
>> objectives on the map is
>> not
>> yet possible, I need to figure out something 
>> smart for that. :-)
>
>I'll probably have a play on Friday afternoon 
>when I get my laptop back. I think I've got 
>everything I need to run the editor on there 
>already, although I can't remember what I did 
>when I upgraded it to RH7.1... Shouldn't be a 
>problem though. I do remember running the editor 
>on it before the upgrade...

The installation of PyQt and sip are quite simple. Should be no problems
if they are not already on the machine.

>Is the new scenario (11?) you created running under civil now? I've not
>tried to run things since the scenario-manager update...

Yes and no. I haven't run main Civil for a few days now. I need to add the
new terrains to the static "icon to color" map in src/hex.py so that the
minimap can be created. We need one color value that will represent one
icon.

>BTW are the stand-alone trees what you were 
>looking for?

Oh, yes! Exactly what I was looking for. I played a little bit with them
yesterday, and they can be used IMO to nicely break up the map and make it
more "alive". Good work (as usual). :-)

--------------------+--------------------------------------------------------
Jan 'Chakie' Ekholm |     Balrog New Media    http://www.balrog.fi/
   Linux Inside     | I'm the blue screen of death, nobody hears your screams

Quoting Jan Ekholm <ch...@in...>:

> It all looks fine now! Please guys have a look 
> if you can! Saving
> scenarios is still a little bit fubar, as the 
> units that get created
> (if
> you create units) are not yet fully valid, as 
> they lack commanders and
> weapons. I'll fix that too soon. Otherwise 
> objectives can now be fully
> edited, added and removed. Placing units and 
> objectives on the map is
> not
> yet possible, I need to figure out something 
> smart for that. :-)

I'll probably have a play on Friday afternoon 
when I get my laptop back. I think I've got 
everything I need to run the editor on there 
already, although I can't remember what I did 
when I upgraded it to RH7.1... Shouldn't be a 
problem though. I do remember running the editor 
on it before the upgrade...

Is the new scenario (11?) you created running 
under civil now? I've not tried to run things 
since the scenario-manager update...

BTW are the stand-alone trees what you were 
looking for?

G

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On Wed, 30 May 2001, Gareth Noyce wrote:

>At 08:21 PM 5/30/01, you wrote:
>>You can go a little larger. 10x10 is about exactly the size of the font
>>for me, but a little larger would (for me) just space out the lines a
>>little. Others may have much bigger/smaller fonts, but that's a later
>>problem, I think?
>
>
>No problems. Just being a moany artiste! ;-) The gun is committed, so 10x10 
>was fine. It was just the horse that I didn't like... ;-)

It all looks fine now! Please guys have a look if you can! Saving
scenarios is still a little bit fubar, as the units that get created (if
you create units) are not yet fully valid, as they lack commanders and
weapons. I'll fix that too soon. Otherwise objectives can now be fully
edited, added and removed. Placing units and objectives on the map is not
yet possible, I need to figure out something smart for that. :-)

--------------------+--------------------------------------------------------
Jan 'Chakie' Ekholm |     Balrog New Media    http://www.balrog.fi/
   Linux Inside     | I'm the blue screen of death, nobody hears your screams

At 08:21 PM 5/30/01, you wrote:
>You can go a little larger. 10x10 is about exactly the size of the font
>for me, but a little larger would (for me) just space out the lines a
>little. Others may have much bigger/smaller fonts, but that's a later
>problem, I think?


No problems. Just being a moany artiste! ;-) The gun is committed, so 10x10 
was fine. It was just the horse that I didn't like... ;-)

Cheers

G


-- 
"Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman had affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room munching pills and
listening to repetitive music." -- Unknown
--

Hi,

There be a gun icon and some stand-alone trees in the CVS. As usual, more 
to come...

I'm off to relax with a beverage and my copy of "Literary Machines"...

Cheers

G

-- 
"Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman had affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room munching pills and
listening to repetitive music." -- Unknown
--

On Wed, 30 May 2001, Gareth Noyce wrote:

>Jan,
>
>Could you confirm the size of the button icons for the editor? Is 10x10 
>really the size? Or, can we go a little larger?

You can go a little larger. 10x10 is about exactly the size of the font
for me, but a little larger would (for me) just space out the lines a
little. Others may have much bigger/smaller fonts, but that's a later
problem, I think?

--------------------+--------------------------------------------------------
Jan 'Chakie' Ekholm |     Balrog New Media    http://www.balrog.fi/
   Linux Inside     | I'm the blue screen of death, nobody hears your screams

Jan,

Could you confirm the size of the button icons for the editor? Is 10x10 
really the size? Or, can we go a little larger?

Thanks

G

-- 
"Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman had affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room munching pills and
listening to repetitive music." -- Unknown
--

At 07:40 PM 5/30/01, you wrote:
> >To be honest, the head works, the horse looks shite and I've stopped
> >there...
>
>The horse actually looks very good when actually in use! It's easy to see
>it's a horse. I think a few pixels more could be allowed for the height,
>and also a few more for the width, but that's details! Maybe a simple gun
>in silhouette *could* work too?

Ok! I'll go and do some more!

> >Anyway -- give them a whirl if you like, although it may be more effort
> >than required if we move to another idea...
>
>Yep, they are in use now, so see for yourself if you can run the editor.
>I'll commit the sources in a few minutes.


I've not got my laptop on me atm, but I'll check as-soon-as...

Cheers

G


-- 
"Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman had affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room munching pills and
listening to repetitive music." -- Unknown
--

On Wed, 30 May 2001, Gareth Noyce wrote:

>To be honest, the head works, the horse looks shite and I've stopped 
>there... 

The horse actually looks very good when actually in use! It's easy to see
it's a horse. I think a few pixels more could be allowed for the height,
and also a few more for the width, but that's details! Maybe a simple gun
in silhouette *could* work too?

>Anyway -- give them a whirl if you like, although it may be more effort 
>than required if we move to another idea...

Yep, they are in use now, so see for yourself if you can run the editor.
I'll commit the sources in a few minutes.

--------------------+--------------------------------------------------------
Jan 'Chakie' Ekholm |     Balrog New Media    http://www.balrog.fi/
   Linux Inside     | I'm the blue screen of death, nobody hears your screams

Hi,

There are some test icons in the folder /gfx/editor/...

They are 10x10.

To be honest, the head works, the horse looks shite and I've stopped 
there... 24x24 would mean that the image ideas would work, 10x10 is just 
too damn small... If we stick with 10x10 I suggest we use graphical 
letters. C, T and U for instance. They would have more meaning than an icon 
at that size...

Anyway -- give them a whirl if you like, although it may be more effort 
than required if we move to another idea...

G

-- 
"Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman had affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room munching pills and
listening to repetitive music." -- Unknown
--

Quoting Jan Ekholm <ch...@in...>:


Ok, Hex mission fully understood. I'll try and 
get as much done before I go away on hols as 
poss...

So, the recompiled list stands at:

* Rivers meeting sea
* Lakes --> ie. water meeting grass with little 
or no beach
* Buildings (houses, bridges etc. See GFX bible)
* Alternative Units (Not boring, just a long hard 
slog)
* Less dense woods (I always intended two types)
* A finished status bar 

> Can it still get any better?

[Yup, the current one is pants...]
 
* The two missing buttons from the 'more info' 
dialog screens...
* Fields with crop circles
* Roads (these were in my list on the website. 
See; I told you I'd forget something...)

Wild suggestions:

* Mad cows.

- I like this one. In fact some little animals 
would be nice. Shame the scale doesn't support 
them...

* A schoolbus.

- A school wagon surely?!

Anything else while we're thinking about it?

G


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Quoting Jan Ekholm <ch...@in...>:

> >Would Sir have a preference for a particular 
> >file format? Or will PNG
> >suffice?
> 
> You make me feel like a tyrant... :-) PNG 
> should be ok.

I was aiming for honoured guest, but tyrant I can 
live with! ;-)
 
> :-) A good or bad day today?

A very long day with muchos code produced. So, I 
guess you could say it was a good day! 

Anyway -- it's a big day at work today, we're 
giving the "demo"... So, if I make it back before 
7:30pm I'll get those GFX bits done for you...

Cheers

G


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On Tue, 29 May 2001, Gareth Noyce wrote:

>Just been playing with these. Do I understand that you'd like individual 
>hexes containing (for example) a patch of trees, or were you after, say, a 
>couple of hexes containing trees, or a mixture of both?

Individual hexes with patches of trees that can be positioned standalone.
Would "break up" the terrain a little, as the smallest pacthes of woods
are now about 200-300m.

>I'm thinking that you mean something similar to what MikeS did for the mud? 

Yep. Exactly!

>The biggest GFX related 'missing things' (as I see them) currently list as:

>* Water meeting sea

What's the difference between water and sea? A deeper colour?

>* Lakes --> ie. water meeting grass with little or no beach

Yep, will come in handy.

>* Buildings (houses, bridges etc. See GFX bible)
>* Alternative Units (will be left till nearly last. I'm not looking forward 
>to these)

I assume this is the boring part? If I can do any routine work I'd be
happy to help.

>* Less dense woods (I always intended two types)

Yes, this is a very good idea. In Combat Mission the term is "scattered
trees", and it allows for semi-visibility through it.

>* A finished status bar (as if... Welcome to the new 'dialog background' 
>problem which plagued me last year...)

Can it still get any better?

>* The two missing buttons from the 'more info' dialog screens...

* Fields with crop circles
* Roads!

> Nothing is too wild a suggestion!

* Mad cows.
* A schoolbus.

--------------------+--------------------------------------------------------
Jan 'Chakie' Ekholm |     Balrog New Media    http://www.balrog.fi/
   Linux Inside     | I'm the blue screen of death, nobody hears your screams

On Tue, 29 May 2001, Gareth Noyce wrote:

>At 09:14 PM 5/29/01, you wrote:
>
>>All brigades, regiments, units etc are in a treeview, from which they will
>>be selectable and then "deployable" in the map. However, I'd like ideas
>>for some small (10x10) images that would represent:
>>
>>         * infantry
>>         * cavalry
>>         * artillery
>
>Let me see. Miniature versions of stuff done for the cursors?
>
>* A little horse
>* A little man
>* A little man with gun...

I didn't mean something that ambitious, and there really isn't too much
space either. But, I've always been surprised as to what you've managed to
come up with, so I assume me doubting something only makes you *really* do
it.

>Would Sir have a preference for a particular file format? Or will PNG suffice?

You make me feel like a tyrant... :-) PNG should be ok.

>We have multiple colours on the menu; merely pick the vintage (read: 256 
>colours allowed?) and your careful GFX waiter will disappear to the kitchen 
>and inform the chef of your choices...

>Food will be delivered (and served warm) to your CVS tree within 24hours 
>upon receipt of your order.

:-) A good or bad day today?

--------------------+--------------------------------------------------------
Jan 'Chakie' Ekholm |     Balrog New Media    http://www.balrog.fi/
   Linux Inside     | I'm the blue screen of death, nobody hears your screams

At 01:03 PM 5/29/01, you wrote:
> > What would be nice is something like:
> >
> >   * rivers entering seas/lakes
> >   * "small" icons
> >   * trees on hills
> >   * fields?
> >
> > I know the last one is a lot of work.
> > The "small" icons means that some
> > way to make a small sand patch or a small
> > collection of trees.

Ok,

Just been playing with these. Do I understand that you'd like individual 
hexes containing (for example) a patch of trees, or were you after, say, a 
couple of hexes containing trees, or a mixture of both?

I'm thinking that you mean something similar to what MikeS did for the mud? 
Anything that spreads over multiple hexes will only ever be able to be used 
in a certain way, so I'd prefer the individual hex implementation myself.

BTW (more a mental note...)

The biggest GFX related 'missing things' (as I see them) currently list as:

* Water meeting sea
* Lakes --> ie. water meeting grass with little or no beach
* Buildings (houses, bridges etc. See GFX bible)
* Alternative Units (will be left till nearly last. I'm not looking forward 
to these)
* Mixed terrains:
   -- Trees on hills (As suggested today)
   -- Grass/Sand on hills (working on these atm)
   -- Rivers on hills
* Less dense woods (I always intended two types)
* Swampy terrains (an extension of MikeS's mud?)
* A finished status bar (as if... Welcome to the new 'dialog background' 
problem which plagued me last year...)
* The two missing buttons from the 'more info' dialog screens...

Now this list can't be complete (there's hardly anything up there...And I'm 
forgetful at the best of times), so please, everyone add things to the end 
and I'll update the "GFX list of requirements" and get down and do things 
in an orderly fashion. Nothing is too wild a suggestion!

Many thanks...

G


-- 
"Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman had affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room munching pills and
listening to repetitive music." -- Unknown
--

At 09:14 PM 5/29/01, you wrote:

>All brigades, regiments, units etc are in a treeview, from which they will
>be selectable and then "deployable" in the map. However, I'd like ideas
>for some small (10x10) images that would represent:
>
>         * infantry
>         * cavalry
>         * artillery

Let me see. Miniature versions of stuff done for the cursors?

* A little horse
* A little man
* A little man with gun...

All can be arranged...

Would Sir have a preference for a particular file format? Or will PNG suffice?

We have multiple colours on the menu; merely pick the vintage (read: 256 
colours allowed?) and your careful GFX waiter will disappear to the kitchen 
and inform the chef of your choices...

Food will be delivered (and served warm) to your CVS tree within 24hours 
upon receipt of your order.

Or in other-words:

I'll be happy to do them, just lemme know what you like/want...

>Possibly just some small colorful bullets or something? Nada fancy. Ah, I

I never promise anything fancy...

G


-- 
"Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman had affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room munching pills and
listening to repetitive music." -- Unknown
--

Ok, I need some help. The editor progresses nicely for a change, but I'd
need some ideas for icons that represent the different types of units.
This is just to give the editor some more color and make it easier to
distinguish units.

All brigades, regiments, units etc are in a treeview, from which they will
be selectable and then "deployable" in the map. However, I'd like ideas
for some small (10x10) images that would represent:

	* infantry
	* cavalry
	* artillery

Possibly just some small colorful bullets or something? Nada fancy. Ah, I
love working with PyQt and Python! Clean, simple and a tremendously
powerful GUI toolkit thrown in for good measure.

--------------------+--------------------------------------------------------
Jan 'Chakie' Ekholm |     Balrog New Media    http://www.balrog.fi/
   Linux Inside     | I'm the blue screen of death, nobody hears your screams

Quoting Jan Ekholm <ch...@in...>:

> Beer is always important, with the occasional 
> cider to freshen things
> up.

Whiskey is my norm, but I'll take the 
suggestion...

> >> Of course I've got a lot
> >> of wishes for even more terrain types, but  
> >> hold my horses for a while!
> >
> >What are you after exactly? I may well be able 
> >produce some bits before I go away on 
> >Holiday...
> 
> I knew you would say that. :-)

:) I knew you'd... Nah, skip it...

> What would be nice is something like:
> 
>   * rivers entering seas/lakes
>   * "small" icons
>   * trees on hills
>   * fields? 
> 
> I know the last one is a lot of work. 
> The "small" icons means that some
> way to make a small sand patch or a small 
> collection of trees.
> Currently
> at leas 6 hexes must be used to make a small 
> circular formation of
> trees,
> and the same goes for sand. Maybe a few small 
> standalone circularish
> patches of trees, sand etc?

Consider that next on the list of things for tidy-
up mode...
 
> Fields are cultivated fields, usually some kind 
> of yellow stuff. Often
> found near farms. :-)

I'm only doing fields if I can include some crop 
circles. :)

But otherwise, I'll add them to the list! :-)

G


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On Tue, 29 May 2001, Gareth Noyce wrote:

>Quoting Jan Ekholm <ch...@in...>:
>
>Nice one re: the scenario. I'll try and have a 
>look later... (Had a busy bank holiday drinking 
>beer!)

Beer is always important, with the occasional cider to freshen things up.

>> Of course I've got a lot
>> of wishes for even more terrain types, but I'll 
>> hold my horses for a while!
>
>What are you after exactly? I may well be able to 
>produce some bits before I go away on Holiday...

I knew you would say that. :-)

What would be nice is something like:

  * rivers entering seas/lakes
  * "small" icons
  * trees on hills
  * fields? 

I know the last one is a lot of work. The "small" icons means that some
way to make a small sand patch or a small collection of trees. Currently
at leas 6 hexes must be used to make a small circular formation of trees,
and the same goes for sand. Maybe a few small standalone circularish
patches of trees, sand etc?

Fields are cultivated fields, usually some kind of yellow stuff. Often
found near farms. :-)

>I've got a load of 'misc' hexes to add (mainly to tidy up things) but
>after that I'm open to suggestions on how to proceed (I was gonna be
>looking at buildings...)

I didn't mean that this was something that was needed *now*, but maybe
some time later. Did not mean to cause stress, disorder and pain...

--------------------+--------------------------------------------------------
Jan 'Chakie' Ekholm |     Balrog New Media    http://www.balrog.fi/
   Linux Inside     | I'm the blue screen of death, nobody hears your screams

Quoting Jan Ekholm <ch...@in...>:

Nice one re: the scenario. I'll try and have a 
look later... (Had a busy bank holiday drinking 
beer!)

> Of course I've got a lot
> of wishes for even more terrain types, but I'll 
> hold my horses for a while!

What are you after exactly? I may well be able to 
produce some bits before I go away on Holiday...

I've got a load of 'misc' hexes to add (mainly to 
tidy up things) but after that I'm open to 
suggestions on how to proceed (I was gonna be 
looking at buildings...)

> If someone feels like some serious PyQt hacking 
> he/she can feel free to
> add muchos functionaliti to the editor. :-)

:)

G


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