golly-test Mailing List for Golly

wrb:

> Give a little guidance, and I'll take up the 
> task of documenting Golly.

Not sure what sort of guidance you want.  We don't have any official
guidelines, so it's really just a matter of being courteous and
using common sense.  If you plan on making major changes (such as
adding/renaming files, or totally rewriting some files) then best
to discuss them here first.  If you're just fixing typos/grammar or
adding some explanatory text then just go ahead and do it (and add a
brief description of what you changed when doing the git commit).

Andrew

wrb:

> Perhaps this is the point at which Golly should have Cloud 
> support.

I've never used a cloud service so don't know much about it.
>From what I've read it sounds like it would be more useful in the
Android and iOS versions of Golly where sharing of patterns/rules
is somewhat awkward.  Adding support for Dropbox looks like it
would be reasonably easy, based on the tutorials here:
https://www.dropbox.com/developers/dropins

I'm happy to look at this in more detail after 2.6 is released.

Andrew

Finally, a place I can contribute.

Give a little guidance, and I'll take up the 
task of documenting Golly.

wrb

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Trevorrow [mailto:an...@tr...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 12:07 PM
> To: golly test list
> Subject: Re: [Golly-test] ok to release Golly 2.6 soon?
> 
> Tom:
> 
> > Right; perhaps we should pick an "arbitrary" cutoff line beyond
> > which a pattern is "too large" for general release and should be
> > accessible online; I'm going to propose 200K compressed as a
> > starting point but am happy to be overruled.
> 
> Yep, that sounds like a reasonable limit.
> 
> > Perhaps we should write a "tour" as well; perhaps this is a script
> > or just a set of HTML files that covers some of the exciting
> > patterns to help those just downloading golly.  This would be
> > doubly interesting if we add cross-links to LifeNews and the
> > conwaylife forums/wiki.  ...
> 
> Excellent idea.  Perhaps add a new section called "Guided Tour" at
> the end of Help > Introduction with links to some of the more
> interesting patterns along with explanatory text.  Go for it!
> (I'm not precious about the current help text -- I'm happy for
> any of the devs to make improvements!)
> 
> Andrew
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT
> organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance
> affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into
> your
> Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of
> AppDynamics Pro!
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> ktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Golly-test mailing list
> Gol...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/golly-test

This suggestion I second: that there be an easy to access 
and update publicly available catalog of patterns and that 
it be seamlessly incorporated into the Golly pattern loading 
and director functions.

Perhaps this is the point at which Golly should have Cloud 
support.

wrb

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Trevorrow [mailto:an...@tr...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 11:07 AM
> To: golly test list
> Subject: Re: [Golly-test] ok to release Golly 2.6 soon?
> 
> Maks:
> 
> > Personally I wouldn't mind making the packages a little bigger if
> that
> > makes the pattern collection significantly better. ...
> 
> For the patterns Dave and I are thinking about it wouldn't just be
> a little bigger.  caterpillar.mc.gz is 3MB by itself, so I think it
> makes sense to have an archive for very large patterns (along with
> a simple mechanism within Golly for downloading them).
> 
> Andrew
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT
> organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance
> affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into
> your
> Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of
> AppDynamics Pro!
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.cl
> ktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Golly-test mailing list
> Gol...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/golly-test

Ok, I've set up the large pattern archive at golly.sourceforge.net/patterns/
and added a link to it from Help > Online Archives.  Do a "git pull" to
get the new version of Help/archives.html.  Or if you don't use git just
edit that file and add these lines somewhere:

<p><center>
<b><a href="get:Very" rel="nofollow">http://golly.sourceforge.net/patterns/golly-access.html">Very Large Patterns</a></b>
</center>

Dave/Tom: to modify the archive you do things like this:

> cd to location of files you want to upload
> sftp your-sf-username,go...@we...
(enter your password)
sftp> cd htdocs/patterns
sftp> put foo.mc.gz
sftp> get golly-access.html
(edit that file to add a link to foo.mc.gz)
sftp> put golly-access.html
(switch to Golly and test the changes)
sftp> quit

Feel free to improve the text and/or formatting in golly-access.html.

Andrew

Tom:

> Right; perhaps we should pick an "arbitrary" cutoff line beyond
> which a pattern is "too large" for general release and should be
> accessible online; I'm going to propose 200K compressed as a
> starting point but am happy to be overruled.

Yep, that sounds like a reasonable limit.

> Perhaps we should write a "tour" as well; perhaps this is a script
> or just a set of HTML files that covers some of the exciting
> patterns to help those just downloading golly.  This would be
> doubly interesting if we add cross-links to LifeNews and the
> conwaylife forums/wiki.  ...

Excellent idea.  Perhaps add a new section called "Guided Tour" at
the end of Help > Introduction with links to some of the more
interesting patterns along with explanatory text.  Go for it!
(I'm not precious about the current help text -- I'm happy for
any of the devs to make improvements!)

Andrew

Right; perhaps we should pick an "arbitrary" cutoff line beyond
which a pattern is "too large" for general release and should be
accessible online; I'm going to propose 200K compressed as a
starting point but am happy to be overruled.

(Patterns larger than that can certainly be in the main
distribution, but they need to exceed even the normal standard
for inclusion; they need to be truly remarkable).

Perhaps we should write a "tour" as well; perhaps this is a script
or just a set of HTML files that covers some of the exciting
patterns to help those just downloading golly.  This would be
doubly interesting if we add cross-links to LifeNews and the
conwaylife forums/wiki.  Of course it probably gets out of date
quickly but there are fantastic results worthy of direct
inclusion.

-tom

On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Andrew Trevorrow <an...@tr...> wrote:
> Maks:
>
>> Personally I wouldn't mind making the packages a little bigger if that
>> makes the pattern collection significantly better. ...
>
> For the patterns Dave and I are thinking about it wouldn't just be
> a little bigger.  caterpillar.mc.gz is 3MB by itself, so I think it
> makes sense to have an archive for very large patterns (along with
> a simple mechanism within Golly for downloading them).
>
> Andrew
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT
> organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance
> affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your
> Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Golly-test mailing list
> Gol...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/golly-test



-- 
--  http://cube20.org/  --  http://golly.sf.net/  --

Maks:

> Personally I wouldn't mind making the packages a little bigger if that
> makes the pattern collection significantly better. ...

For the patterns Dave and I are thinking about it wouldn't just be
a little bigger.  caterpillar.mc.gz is 3MB by itself, so I think it
makes sense to have an archive for very large patterns (along with
a simple mechanism within Golly for downloading them).

Andrew

And another note:  I'm not against aging out some of the patterns.
For instance, I suspect we may have multiple "sphinx" patterns
in there; I think at this point we can cut that down to one sphinx
pattern.

Assuredly, adding some contemporary constructions is a major
win.

BTW, on pattern storage---sourceforge is changing, and we may
want to have a secondary mirror ready to go for the patterns.
I'm happy to use one of my personal domains, but I'd prefer we
have a domain that multiple people control because none of us
are getting any younger . . .

-tom

On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Tom Rokicki <ro...@gm...> wrote:
> I agree; I think as long as the pattern database is somewhere
> less than say 70% of the total distribution, we're fine on space.
>
> And I'm only worried about total package size, not installed
> size (for desktops).  Mobile is new enough that I think we should
> not worry too much about it for now---at least not until we
> break the 50MB or so barrier.
>
> -tom
>
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Maks Verver <mak...@ge...> wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 21:55:34 -0600
>> Dave Greene <dav...@gm...> wrote:
>>
>>> I guess the problem is that a lot of recent patterns are big as well
>>> as being impressive... a trend that started with the Caterpillar,
>>> which isn't in the collection either.  Any suggestions for what to do
>>> about this?  Can I have, let's say, a 500K budget to add some of these
>>> bigger patterns?  Or 1MB, even?  Or would it still be better to add a
>>> new Online Archives link to a larger pattern collection somewhere?
>>
>> Personally I wouldn't mind making the packages a little bigger if that
>> makes the pattern collection significantly better. The collection is
>> already about 4.5 MB installed, versus a total installed size of 12 MB
>> for the statically linked Linux version.  I do think the pattern
>> database is a worthwhile component of Golly since it allows users to
>> explore some of the possibilities without having to discover everything
>> from scratch, and using a megabyte more is not going to bother anyone.
>>
>> (I don't know how well this argument translates to the various mobile
>> versions of Golly that Andrew has recently created -- maybe storage
>> space is still scarce on smartphones and such?  I don't really know.)
>>
>> By the way, if install size is of critical importance, there is also
>> the option of compressing some of the larger pattern files to free up
>> some space.
>>
>>  - Maks.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT
>> organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance
>> affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your
>> Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Golly-test mailing list
>> Gol...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/golly-test
>
>
>
> --
> --  http://cube20.org/  --  http://golly.sf.net/  --



-- 
--  http://cube20.org/  --  http://golly.sf.net/  --

I agree; I think as long as the pattern database is somewhere
less than say 70% of the total distribution, we're fine on space.

And I'm only worried about total package size, not installed
size (for desktops).  Mobile is new enough that I think we should
not worry too much about it for now---at least not until we
break the 50MB or so barrier.

-tom

On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Maks Verver <mak...@ge...> wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 21:55:34 -0600
> Dave Greene <dav...@gm...> wrote:
>
>> I guess the problem is that a lot of recent patterns are big as well
>> as being impressive... a trend that started with the Caterpillar,
>> which isn't in the collection either.  Any suggestions for what to do
>> about this?  Can I have, let's say, a 500K budget to add some of these
>> bigger patterns?  Or 1MB, even?  Or would it still be better to add a
>> new Online Archives link to a larger pattern collection somewhere?
>
> Personally I wouldn't mind making the packages a little bigger if that
> makes the pattern collection significantly better. The collection is
> already about 4.5 MB installed, versus a total installed size of 12 MB
> for the statically linked Linux version.  I do think the pattern
> database is a worthwhile component of Golly since it allows users to
> explore some of the possibilities without having to discover everything
> from scratch, and using a megabyte more is not going to bother anyone.
>
> (I don't know how well this argument translates to the various mobile
> versions of Golly that Andrew has recently created -- maybe storage
> space is still scarce on smartphones and such?  I don't really know.)
>
> By the way, if install size is of critical importance, there is also
> the option of compressing some of the larger pattern files to free up
> some space.
>
>  - Maks.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT
> organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance
> affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your
> Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Golly-test mailing list
> Gol...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/golly-test



-- 
--  http://cube20.org/  --  http://golly.sf.net/  --

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 21:55:34 -0600
Dave Greene <dav...@gm...> wrote:

> I guess the problem is that a lot of recent patterns are big as well
> as being impressive... a trend that started with the Caterpillar,
> which isn't in the collection either.  Any suggestions for what to do
> about this?  Can I have, let's say, a 500K budget to add some of these
> bigger patterns?  Or 1MB, even?  Or would it still be better to add a
> new Online Archives link to a larger pattern collection somewhere?

Personally I wouldn't mind making the packages a little bigger if that
makes the pattern collection significantly better. The collection is
already about 4.5 MB installed, versus a total installed size of 12 MB
for the statically linked Linux version.  I do think the pattern
database is a worthwhile component of Golly since it allows users to
explore some of the possibilities without having to discover everything
from scratch, and using a megabyte more is not going to bother anyone.

(I don't know how well this argument translates to the various mobile
versions of Golly that Andrew has recently created -- maybe storage
space is still scarce on smartphones and such?  I don't really know.)

By the way, if install size is of critical importance, there is also
the option of compressing some of the larger pattern files to free up
some space.

 - Maks.

Dave:

> I guess the problem is that a lot of recent patterns are big as well
> as being impressive... a trend that started with the Caterpillar,
> which isn't in the collection either.  Any suggestions for what to do
> about this?  Can I have, let's say, a 500K budget to add some of these
> bigger patterns?  Or 1MB, even?  Or would it still be better to add a
> new Online Archives link to a larger pattern collection somewhere?

I think the last solution is the best, and the best place for the
collection is probably somewhere on golly.sourceforge.net.
Some time in the next couple of days I'll create a new patterns
folder and upload a golly-access.html file and a couple of large
patterns so we can try it out.

Uploading files to that site requires sf admin permissions (currently
me, you and Tom).  I know Adam was also interested in maintaining a
repository for large patterns so at some point I'll contact him
and see if he'd like admin rights (not sure if he's on this list).

> The linear replicator is only 27K in mc.gz format, so at least that's
> not a problem, unlike most of my other recent efforts.

Yep, that's small enough to go into the distribution.

> I mentioned the idea a few years ago of hiding all the technical
> patterns in sub-directories or ZIP files.  By "technical patterns" I
> mean the ones that don't seem to do anything when you just look at
> them or run them, as opposed to the patterns that are spectacular to
> watch even if you don't know anything about them.

Probably best to leave any significant reorganization for a later
version (3.0?).

Andrew

>> Mostly to Dave: I'm a bit worried that our pattern collection is
>> no longer "state-of-the-art".  Should we add some of the recent
>> discoveries such as the loafer, snark, and your geminoid replicator?
>> Probably a few others I've forgotten about.

Yes, the pattern collection has been bothering me a while, for various reasons.

The Herschel conduit stamp collection is really badly out of date now.
 It always needed a subsidiary stamp collection of period multpliers
and switching circuitry, anyway.

There are quite a few impressive larger constructions that somehow
never got into the pattern collection -- Adam P. Goucher's decimal pi
and phi printers and his O(sqrt log t) growth pattern, for example.

Yes, should definitely add a loafer gun, and maybe the reduced p59
gun, which is a good showcase for Snarks.

I guess the problem is that a lot of recent patterns are big as well
as being impressive... a trend that started with the Caterpillar,
which isn't in the collection either.  Any suggestions for what to do
about this?  Can I have, let's say, a 500K budget to add some of these
bigger patterns?  Or 1MB, even?  Or would it still be better to add a
new Online Archives link to a larger pattern collection somewhere?

The linear replicator is only 27K in mc.gz format, so at least that's
not a problem, unlike most of my other recent efforts.  Take the
loafer seed guns, for example:

  http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1031&start=50#p9034

Is the linear version worth adding as a curiosity, at 30K?  It's kind
of hard to even see the loafer when it finally gets created, though I
could fix that by changing the phase.  The spiral version is more
interesting to look at, but it's way up at 127K and Golly really
struggles with it, not surprisingly.

One side issue I've run into several times lately is that when I
introduce Golly to someone, they tend to look at the first pattern in
the collection first, which is Banks-I-demo.rle... which is of
interest if someone is really studying the Banks-I rule, but you have
to know to click the Information button and do some serious background
reading before it really makes any sense.

I mentioned the idea a few years ago of hiding all the technical
patterns in sub-directories or ZIP files.  By "technical patterns" I
mean the ones that don't seem to do anything when you just look at
them or run them, as opposed to the patterns that are spectacular to
watch even if you don't know anything about them.

Anyway, I'll see what I can do to pull together at least a few key
additions and fixes in the next week or two.  Thanks for the reminder!

Keep the cheer,


Dave

Nothing from me.  I do have a few "todo" items but certainly don't want
to start them now; the 2.6 release is important just to make the
Mavericks folks happy.  Thanks, Andrew!

On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Andrew Trevorrow <an...@tr...> wrote:
> I'd like to release Golly 2.6 some time in the next 2 weeks, so does
> anybody have pending changes they'd like to include?
>
> There's not much new functionality in 2.6 but it does have some
> important bug fixes, especially for people using Ubuntu+Unity and
> Mac OS 10.9.
>
> I've also added some recent changes to avoid potential data loss
> based on suggestions in the ConwayLife forums:
> http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1233&start=0
>
> Mostly to Dave: I'm a bit worried that our pattern collection is
> no longer "state-of-the-art".  Should we add some of the recent
> discoveries such as the loafer, snark, and your geminoid replicator?
> Probably a few others I've forgotten about.
>
> Andrew
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT
> organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance
> affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your
> Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349351&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Golly-test mailing list
> Gol...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/golly-test



-- 
--  http://cube20.org/  --  http://golly.sf.net/  --

I'd like to release Golly 2.6 some time in the next 2 weeks, so does
anybody have pending changes they'd like to include?

There's not much new functionality in 2.6 but it does have some
important bug fixes, especially for people using Ubuntu+Unity and
Mac OS 10.9.

I've also added some recent changes to avoid potential data loss
based on suggestions in the ConwayLife forums:
http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1233&start=0

Mostly to Dave: I'm a bit worried that our pattern collection is
no longer "state-of-the-art".  Should we add some of the recent
discoveries such as the loafer, snark, and your geminoid replicator?
Probably a few others I've forgotten about.

Andrew

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Please, if you want to try it, let me know.. and any comment is appreciated!

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On Nov 7, 2013 3:24 PM, "Andrew Trevorrow" <an...@tr...> wrote:

>  > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sf.golly
>
> Woohoo!  Our 1st 5 star review -- thanks Tim. :)
>
> PS. I've uploaded more screenshots.  The 1st 3 are from my Nexus 7 tablet
> (latest model with 320dpi screen), the next 3 are from my daughter's phone,
> a HTC Desire X.
>
> PPS. If anybody has an old phone/tablet still running Android 3.x it would
> be nice to know if Golly works ok on it.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
> Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models.
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> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Golly-test mailing list
> Gol...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/golly-test
>
>
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>  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sf.golly

Woohoo!  Our 1st 5 star review -- thanks Tim. :)

PS. I've uploaded more screenshots.  The 1st 3 are from my Nexus 7 tablet
(latest model with 320dpi screen), the next 3 are from my daughter's phone,
a HTC Desire X.

PPS. If anybody has an old phone/tablet still running Android 3.x it would
be nice to know if Golly works ok on it.

Andrew

Oh my gosh!  I can't wait!  I've got a Nexus 4 and a Nexus 7; this
should be fun.

I've seen all the work you've been putting in lately on it; I can't
wait to see it run.

-tom

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 6:00 AM, Tim Hutton <tim...@gm...> wrote:
> Awesome! Downloading now.
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sf.golly
>
>
>
> On 7 November 2013 13:12, Andrew Trevorrow <an...@tr...> wrote:
>>
>> I've just uploaded Golly 1.0 to Google Play.  It should be widely
>> available
>> "in a few hours" (which is a lot better than Apple's 2 weeks!).
>>
>> It should work on all devices (handsets or tablets) running Android 3.0
>> or later, so give it a whirl and let me know of any problems.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
>> Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models.
>> Explore
>> techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the
>> most
>> from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and
>> register
>>
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
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>
>
>
>
> --
> Tim Hutton - http://www.sq3.org.uk - http://profiles.google.com/tim.hutton/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> November Webinars for C, C++, Fortran Developers
> Accelerate application performance with scalable programming models. Explore
> techniques for threading, error checking, porting, and tuning. Get the most
> from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and
> register
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60136231&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Golly-test mailing list
> Gol...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/golly-test
>



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