From Review of Democracy, a very clear statement of where the conventional wisdom is headed, due to Lenin’s “He who says A must say B” reasons.
Personally, I think the essence of sanity is to say: “I say A but not B, because B is disastrous,” but then I’m a crazed extremist. So I would say that, wouldn’t I?
WHY WE SHALL ABOLISH CITIZENSHIP
DIMITRY KOCHENOV
Professor Dimitry Vladimirovich Kochenov leads the Rule of Law workgroup at the CEU Democracy Institute and teaches at the CEU Department of Legal Studies. His research focuses on the principles of law and the global context with a special emphasis on the rule of law, citizenship, and the enforcement of EU values. His first monograph, EU Enlargement and the Failure of Conditionality, was published in 2008. Before coming back to Budapest, where he completed his masters, he was a law professor at the University of Groningen. He has held numerous visiting fellowships, including at Princeton, Oxford, and NYU Law School. His last monograph, Citizenship, was published in 2019 by MIT Press.
POSTED ON 4TH DECEMBER 2021
Professor Dimitry Kochenov* in conversation with Michał Matlak explains why he believes citizenship is a “perpetuation of the ideas of aristocracy,” sexism, and racism; what can be done to fix this issue; and what motivated him to write “Citizenship” (MIT Press, 2019).
… Q. Why do you think citizenship is such a flawed concept?
A. If we look at citizenship at the national level, then it’s perfect. It’s ideally suited to meet all the liberal democratic institutional aims. It’s a superb tool in order to make sure that everybody’s engaged, that the law applies equally to everybody, and that our democracy is functioning as described.
When you look at the world from the perspective of two, five, one hundred, two hundred states and territories, then all these gains that we associate with the term “citizenship” disappear because as citizenship functions today, it’s basically a tool to instill absolute inequality between the possessors of different statuses under the guise of the promotion of democratic inclusion, liberation, and fairness.
It works in such a way because once you are assigned by any authority to any kind of state via the distribution of this status -which is distributed at random,
The use of the word random to mean a process that is highly non-random reminds me of George Carlin’s joke about people saying, “My friend, who happens to be black …”
of course, it’s not based on your will, identity, or anything else but your blood- citizenship at the international level comes down the perpetuation of the ideas of caste assignment – aristocracy, which the same status precisely fights against at the level of each nation-state since its inception, since the French revolution pretty much.
So how does it work, since ideally the world is presented in any textbook in political science and international law as a world inhabited by equal states? This principle of equality of states also gets extrapolated on citizenship, which means that as a Dutchman I enjoy as glorious a status as someone who’s Pakistani, as someone who is Hungarian, as someone who is American, and normally we don’t compare.
Once we start comparing, and this is an important chunk of my work over the last 10 years, we actually discover that while some citizenships come with rights, the absolute majority of them are about desperate liabilities, and they don’t actually help any of their possessors.
What we see is that a handful of citizenships, usually the citizenship of the former colonizing nations, the so-called “West”, emerge as the “super citizenships” of the world which give very important rights to those who possess them, to those who are granted them. All the rest of the citizenships, citizenships of 4/5ths of the population of the world, are collections of bitter liabilities rather than the depositories of rights. This means that as long as we uphold the story of citizenship as a story precisely of liberation, dignity, and whatever else positive that is connected to it in the popular understanding, we also uphold bringing down those 4/5ths of the world population who were not lucky enough, to quote Ayelet Shachar, to win in the “birthright lottery,”
The way babies are born is not really all that random or much of a lottery.
who were not lucky enough to be born in the right places or to the right parents.
The preamble to the U.S. Constitution explains how the U.S. is supposed to work:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
But that seems pretty racist these days, so you seldom hear about “ourselves and our posterity” anymore.
Back to Professor Kochenov:
What does it mean to us? It means that, in fact, any story that looks at citizenship benevolently is also a story that replicates neo-feudal, bloodline-based, aristocratic understanding of stratifying human societies without any kind of critical idea about what the implications of that are for all the inhabitants of the world. This is exactly the problem with citizenship.
To sum it up, from the tool of equality and liberation, as citizenship was conceived at the times of the French revolution, it evolved into precisely the opposite, the tool of mass-subjugation and irrational putting-down of the majority of the world’s population in the name of precisely those ideals which citizenship now it very busy destroying at the global level.
Probably the last point, and this is I think absolutely clear to everybody once we look at citizenship from the global perspective: citizenship when regarded globally, when your rights depend on your blood and nothing else and when your place in the world, the opportunities you have, the likelihood of any particular career, the worth of your time and the length of your life, when everything is determined by your blood and your blood only, this is precisely what all the national constitutions of the liberal democracies today preach to have abolished.
It’s almost as if different ideas can have merit and need to be carefully balanced off against each other. But that seems pretty racist now that we know the Only True Ideal: that blacks should have as much money and plaques as whites.
Which means that, when regarded globally, the concept of citizenship will never pass the basic constitutional vetting in any country taken individually. It will be something absolutely repugnant to all the ideals in the name of which the French Republic exists. It will be absolutely repugnant and unacceptable for the Germans and for the idea of dignity. It will be absolutely out of question for Americans, and you can continue this list. So, from something great, citizenship evolved into something absolutely horrible and unacceptable.
Q. If we accept your line of reasoning, what should be the political consequence? Should it be the deep reform of the concept, or should it be the abolition of it?
Well, to start with we need to ask ourselves the question: Do we believe in the ideals that citizenship is deemed to be promoting?
Are we allowed to believe in any other ideals and argue over the optimal way to trade them off?
The ideas of basic equality, the ideas of respecting the individual dignity of all those who receive this status by birth, and the idea that humanity, especially now in the world of human rights, is something that counts more than aristocratic or caste-based, birthright certifications.
If we answer this question in the negative, and if we say, “well, actually, who your parents are is much more important to determine whether you should be entitled to rights” or “in terms of asking what kind of duties you should be asked to perform”, well, we should stop here because this is exactly how citizenship works.
The trouble is that at the national level, once again, the answer to the question which I have just asked is unquestionably clear. There is no debate about how to answer this question. In the modern world, aristocracy, castes, an unjustified distribution of liabilities, is something that is deemed absolutely unacceptable, no matter what, in any decent national constitution.
So, the question is: What makes us ready to accept, without question, at the international level something that is an absolute no-go, totally non-kosher, and absolutely unacceptable concept at the level of our own constitutional state?
To me, as a believer in liberal democracy and precisely as a believer in modern constitutional ideals, the answer to this question is crystal-clear. Citizenship doesn’t have a place in the modern world because it’s a blood-based justification for bringing people down. We should move on from it.
When I suggested that it probably should be abolished – I wrote a small piece for I-CON entitled “Ending Passport Apartheid,”- there was a lot of angry reactions from all kinds of quarters. People were writing basically hate mail to me saying “you don’t believe in democracy!” And yes, I don’t believe in blood-based democracy in the sense that all our democratic ideals are mobilized in order to justify to those who get the second-rate kind of status and the second rate- Well, in fact, the set of liabilities instead of set of rights- why they should not be entitled to a better hope, to a better future, and precisely to the all the constitutional ideals which we ourselves hold sacred in our member states.
There is a very simple answer to this question. Historically we had plenty of precedents of how these kinds of difficult questions were answered. The fight against citizenship can be compared to the fight against slavery. You don’t need to convince the slave owners that slavery is something bad (well, you need to in practice) but the slaves already know it.
So if you speak with those who have third-rate or fourth-rate, absolutely despicable, low-quality citizenship statuses, which do not allow them to realize themselves in any way in the world, they already know that their citizenships are second-rate and drag them down. You are not bringing any news to them by saying that, actually in fact, the Central African passport is not to be compared with the passport of the French Republic.
Current ideological trends suggest that the moral necessity of moving the population of Central African Republic-like countries to France-like countries will become the great issue of the 21st Century.
We are already at the point where the White House reacts in horror and rage to pictures of its Border Patrol employees impeding black foreigners.
Next will be the obligation for us to evacuate them from what they’ve made of their homelands.
By the way, this sounds like the explanation for the Fermi Paradox: the more advanced intelligent life forms on a planet cut their own reproduction rate and become obsessed with accommodating their less advanced, faster-reproducing cousins in the name of equality.
This will only be something that is news to the French, because the French think about the preservation of the aristocratic booster in terms of rights in the world, and well, when you abolish aristocracy, someone will have to share and someone will have to yield, which means that obviously in the Western literatures you don’t frequently find the perspective which I adopt in my little book.
Q. Could we ask you about the consequences for the idea of state, because of course the idea of state is crucial for citizenship. Citizenship defines our relationship with states. Would the idea of abolishing, or fundamental deep reform, require a need to reform our states?
A. … [H]istorically citizenship was a racist and sexist concept, which was only given to white males, essentially. …
If you believe in citizenship, you subconsciously (or sometimes consciously, but then you’re not honest to yourself) engage in majority blaming. Somehow, the absolute majority of states in the world failed to produce a citizenship which is similar in its quality and appeal to the citizenship of the United States.
And it’s racist to believe that, so it must be the United States’ fault.
Some of these states are formerly colonized places, others are former colonizers. And now start comparing the rights which the guys in former colonies got globally, based on their citizenship, compared with the rights which the former colonizers got globally, based on their super-citizenship. We come to the same equation of the racist world of empires. We come to the same starting point presuming that there are not so many white Angolans and knowing that Angolan citizenship is absolutely sub-standard in terms of the kind of rights that it gets to you around the world – especially compared with the citizenship Portugal distributes. It’s absolutely clear that the same racism, which was the main principle of imperial governance, is back with us through the principle of equality of states and through the ideology of the dignity of citizenship.
It’s funny how Trump stumbled upon the extremely triggering example of Norway vs. Haiti, since Norway hasn’t had an empire since … Leif Ericson sailed home? And Haiti hasn’t been under an empire for 225 years.
Contrast this with the statist approach, saying that Angolan’s “haven’t sorted out their troubles”, ignoring the past in terms of the evolution of the statuses of citizenship today and in the past, which every single inhabitant of the world inherits based on blood and ignoring the main racist principle of empire building.
The antiquarianism that’s such an obvious feature of 21st Century discourse (redlining!) largely exists to explain why blacks aren’t as rich as whites in the present and, in the future, to explain why whites must give them their property.
By the way our ideology works, we are conjuring up our own nemesis out of our thoughts. And like the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man in Ghostbusters, the intersection of the World’s Most Important Graph and Intersectionalism is a particularly ridiculous nemesis. It’s not like a comet from deep space or some other catastrophe that would be difficult to stop. You just hire a bunch of Mexican-Americans to ride horses and twirl their reins.
But can we allow ourselves to do that?
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Perhaps the proper corollary to “He who says A must say B” is “He who does not wish to say B should not say A”.
The obstacle to this master plan is the pesky institution of Democracy, which requires the consent of the "citizens" before taking away their rights and privileges. But when you redefine national citizenship as globally undemocratic, then circumventing national democracy is a moral imperative. That mindset explains a lot of elite behavior over the last 5 years.
P.S., Why does everyone forget that the U.S. was colonized, and not a colonizers? Being colonized is not what makes a country a shithole. What do "attractive" former colonies like America, Canada, and Australia have in common compared to Haiti, Angola, and the Central African Republic? Hmm . . . .Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @Mr. Grey
Well I have no trouble believing that the top 10% or so of the worlds population (and that would be Whites) produced a superior citizenship to the other 90%.
This post is basically a bright neon reminder that to fight these scum, HBD--asserting HBD--is critical.
People are different and quite naturally behave differently and produce different life outcomes. Groups of people are different--though thousands of years of gene-culture co-evolution and produce different sorts of societies.
Sure it is weird to run around asserting these fundamental truths which are utterly obvious and were commonly understood by everyone even 60 years ago when i was a kid. But the lies to install this minoritarian brain disease have been pushed so relentlessly, that now even the obvious must be spoken clearly, forcefully to make any political progress toward saving civilization.Replies: @AndrewR
Sure, and this world-class believe in liberal democracy and constitutional ideals, he and his ilk would ignore the expressed will of the majority and overturn established constitutional order to get their way and force their utopia down the throats of us all.
And his professed prescriptions aren’t idle warnings to us. Note that this tranny nonsense that engulfs Anglo-American life started out decades ago as the crazy musings of mentally unwell, lower-tiered faculty at mostly second-rate universities. Squash this dangerous idiocy now. What we should move on from is the status and privilege granted these hectoring panjandrums. Keep science and engineering and abolish all the worthless humanities and social science faculties in our universities.
But, of course, the whole system would have to break down for that to happen. In any event, the problem isn't the Humanities - it's the Mediocrities - and what they did to the Humanities, and not just the Humanities, but to the Arts & Sciences.
Besides, the prestige of the sciences came from scientists who were mostly amateurs, like Darwin, and well-grounded in the arts.
The professionalization and specialization of science led to the production of technologists and contributed in the long run to the overall cultural impoverishment of the entire Western world.
The idea of reducing all of education to the STEMs is symptomatic of the problem of cultural impoverishment and in no way an answer to it.
Well he knows what he is talking about, Dimitry has some first hand experience of the value of citizenship.
Dimitry Vladimirovich Kochenov is an expert on citizenship and nationality law who held a chair in European Constitutional law and Citizenship at the University of Groningen.[1] He considers citizenship to be an unjustifiable form of apartheid, comparing it to racism, sexism, and slavery, and advocates its complete abolition.[2]
Following a 2019 investigation by Dutch news program Nieuwsuur, University of Groningen conducted an investigation into Kochenov’s paid consulting activities related to the “passport trade”, including his role with Henley & Partners and advising Malta on a law change to allow citizenship by investment. In 2020, he was reprimanded by the university for breaching its conflict of interest rules, having failed to disclose his external side jobs.[3][4] As a result of the scandal, Kochenov left the university, as reported in April 2021.[3]
-- Produces nothing of value.
-- Feeds on the host.
-- Weakens and destroys the host.
The modern nation state is the best organization we've come up with--community/tribe at scale.
But one of the problems with it has been diminution of the sort of "parasite policing" that traditional tribes/communities had to do. Where you kick out (or kill off) the parasites--criminals, crazy, lazy, uncooperative--who won't get with the program and pull their weight.
For the West to survive, the productive majorities in Western nations must organize and develop the will to expel (i'm by default, just a really nice guy)--or kill off if they won't leave--those people who feed on them and seek to weaken them.
~
Conservative\Republican propagandists and politicians really need to say "parasite". It is incredibly clarifying and will really get a rise out of the usual suspects.Replies: @Ben tillman, @Richard B
The link is wrong, it should be this, where Dimitry Vladimirovich Kochenov tells us thatand we read thatA search on his name sheds some light on the missing years of the passport professor.For those who don't know, the background to this is events in Poland and Hungary. The executives of those countries, having commanded the required number of votes in the legislature (in Hungary a supermajority) have reduced the powers of the judiciary. Moreover, the current supreme court of Poland has declared that it is legally superior to the supreme court of the European Union (so has the supreme court of Germany, but who cares?)
What Kochenov means by a citizen is a member of the electorate, and his ultimate aim is a global legal order, with a world supreme court with can nullify any law passed by any legislature. Like Lord Mansfield and Roger Taney, he will deliver us from the evil of positive law.
Accidentally on-topic: three generals call for preparation for insurrection in 2024.
I’m sorry, the FBI was already devoting its attention to Phantom Nazis and computer-generated Canadian supremacists, the military allowed Pathanistan to slip away while reading offendedly about white male gun owners, the congress was “investigating” several Trump supporters getting beaten and one murdered, uh … weren’t you guys already focusing on “insurrection”? And why in 2024? Is that because you plan to steal that one too?
What pedophile has ever hurt anyone like these dreckgolemim have hurt us?
[but what does unelected bureaucratic expertise being murderously perdendicular to the will of the people have to do woth the topic? For that matter Gilbert is wrong about muscular dystrophy. I don’t get it. I seek things to make me go.]
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ex-army-generals-fear-insurrection-or-civil-war-in-2024/ar-AARWtuT?ocid=uxbndlbing
———-
Is Mass Romantic really old enough to drink (below the border that is)?
Harvey Weinstein’s lawyers have hit on the PERFECT argument to release Weinstein from his 23-year prison sentence
His release will help BLACK BROWN and POOR people get fairer trials in the future!
A great pitch and it is working … and major media is on board:
‘Here’s Why Justice May Demand That Harvey Weinstein Goes Free’
https://news.yahoo.com/why-justice-may-demand-harvey-001506541.html
All is Totem Pole!
OFF TOPIC:
Another enigmatic Minneapolis mystery …
https://www.startribune.com/arrests-for-most-violent-and-property-crimes-drop-in-minneapolis/600128395/
“Somehow” . . . . some people and places are better than others. Wondering why, or trying to make the bad places better, seems to be off the table, however. Just take, and redistribute. That’s the usual leftist solution. So why not apply that logic globally by taking and redistributing first world citizenship rights.
The obstacle to this master plan is the pesky institution of Democracy, which requires the consent of the “citizens” before taking away their rights and privileges. But when you redefine national citizenship as globally undemocratic, then circumventing national democracy is a moral imperative. That mindset explains a lot of elite behavior over the last 5 years.
P.S., Why does everyone forget that the U.S. was colonized, and not a colonizers? Being colonized is not what makes a country a shithole. What do “attractive” former colonies like America, Canada, and Australia have in common compared to Haiti, Angola, and the Central African Republic? Hmm . . . .
If you deny his logic and accept the bloodline value, next thing you know that your Democracy assigns a higher value to the very Haitians and Africans you seem to dislike. Which it already is doing.
Under the nihilictic argument you can accept as many white Boer or Chileans or whatever, legally. Under citizenship regume of today, the Boer or the Chilean has to lick boots to black State Dept ladies while Haitian enters freely. What sense does it make for you, the conservative?Replies: @Almost Missouri
Sounds like you want to make what the late Lawrence Auster used to call an “unprincipled exception:” to accept the liberal premise A, but say “we have to draw the line at B because B ‘goes too far,’” without being able to identify any actual principle by which B should be avoided given that it follows from A.
Steve,
This time you are misguided. You take this obvious liar at face value.
I can assure you he means absolutely *nothing* of what he says.
Kochenov (a nationalised Dutch citizen of Russian descent) used to work in Netherlands, Groningen University, but got fired (or forced to resign) because he was working on establishing a slimy passport trade. He had hidden this side job from his employer, while at the same time using his employer (University of Groningen) for credentials.
See here, Dutch media was up his ass:
https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2375189-vragen-van-nieuwsuur-aan-en-over-dimitry-kochenov
https://joop.bnnvara.nl/opinies/universiteit-groningen-dumpt-professor-kochenov-om-rol-bij-paspoortenhandel
His release will help BLACK BROWN and POOR people get fairer trials in the future!
A great pitch and it is working ... and major media is on board:
'Here’s Why Justice May Demand That Harvey Weinstein Goes Free'
https://news.yahoo.com/why-justice-may-demand-harvey-001506541.htmlReplies: @Inquiring Mind, @Sick of Orcs, @Anonymous
Did not Mr. Cosby get released from prison on a somewhat related technicality?
You got to love the Russians, putting it all in the open like that. Western elites will of course never “abolish citizenship”, just gradually water it down however they can.
As of December 9, people who are not citizens can vote. National Public Radio claims that there are 800,000 of them, which means the real number is probably much higher.
Take that, Staten Island!Replies: @Art Deco
Prlof. Kochenov’s essay is a needlessly wordy restatement of Karl Marx’s pithy aphorism: “The working man has got no country.”
Ultimately this is about the revival of communism.
It’s like the Troy McClure joke “Have you ever wondered why Chinese parents have Chinese children? It’s no coincidence.”
Have you ever wondered why Finnish people tend to have ancestors who have been living in same place for thousands of years? Or Why Irish people and Norwegian people don’t tend to have had a common ancestor for at least 1000 years?
Maybe, but I thought, somehow, pretty much in the 1000-year-ago timeframe, boy were the Irish "mixed", if that is the word you are calling it, with Norwegians?
The most fundamental freedom is not your personal freedom of speech, press, religion, it is the freedom to associate with the people you want, so that can you live in a community with your norms, values, traditions, culture. (We are a social species.)
Minoritarianism–and globohomo–are a war against that. A war specifically against a nation’s people being able to have their nation and live as they wish according to their national norms and culture.
You must be jammed cheek to jowl with … whomever. You have no right to your community, your nation. You are just a serf.
Kochenov wants to enslave the best humans and enforce dysgenics (which ultimately means extinction) on the entire human race. He is a nihilistic, genocidal psychopath.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @Rosie, @Ian M.
It is easy to see how making freedom of association fundamental leads directly to the sort of dystopian citizenless world favored by Professor Kochenov and his ilk.
Professor Dimitry Vladimirovich Kochenov
Abolition of Citizenship is one of the many moving parts in the globohomo feminization of world population.
Feminization of the world means “no differentiating.” Friend/foe. Rich/poor. Polite/rude.
Good/bad. Beautiful/ugly. Smart/dumb. Men/women. Trans men/Bio men. Old/Young. Communism/Capitalism. Freedom/Restricted. We are all the same.
Citizenship is a good one to start with, because while it may be an accident-of-birth, we (in the west) can choose, including to abolish it. If we get rid of SAT/ACH tests, then there will be no difference. Harvard University, or the La Verne School for Men and Women.
China and Russia aren’t having these conversations, or open to them. So, the Russian writer of this piece will see if it sticks when he tries it out on western audiences.
And thats a horrible thought. Because welfare state is what family values is about. Without welfare state, Those brave single mothers will starve. Those old childless gays will starve too.
How do they even live in Russia or China or Ukraine, without the wellfare state? Right?
Basically, this is a great idea: do away with your citizenship, together with the dole. Become a free man, live where you want, pay taxes and vote where you live. I have not found an argument against Dimitris logic anywhere in the comments except the fear for cherished Western wellfare state.Replies: @anon
Eliminating citizenship would certainly put a dent in the social security and medicare liabilities on the Treasury balance sheet.
Treasury does have a balance sheet, yes?
steve, check the title “WHY WE SHALL ABOLISH CITIZENSHIP” the link is not pointing to: https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068665
wrong!
When I was growing up the definition of citizenship as in (1) was so fundamental to a healthy, normal society that it was taken for granted.
I best remember the definition of citizenship as in (2), as it was considered to be so important that it was evaluated regularly as a part of every grade-school student’s report card.
Minoritarianism--and globohomo--are a war against that. A war specifically against a nation's people being able to have their nation and live as they wish according to their national norms and culture.
You must be jammed cheek to jowl with ... whomever. You have no right to your community, your nation. You are just a serf.Replies: @ben tillman, @SafeNow, @Glaivester, @Ian M.
The most fundamental freedom is self-ownership, which applies both to one’s personal self and to any expanded selves that one has become part of through association with others.
Kochenov wants to enslave the best humans and enforce dysgenics (which ultimately means extinction) on the entire human race. He is a nihilistic, genocidal psychopath.
But what is the reason to have the classes of citizenships existing between white countries? Why this Dimitri the russian needs to lick boots of US embassy officials (who are a pond scum compared to him, intellectually and often , well, racially as well) to get in, and then suffer slavery under your HIV visas, or what you call them, while Haitian peasants seem to have it as the aristicratic blood right for them to come and stay illegally?
Why denying comservative Hungarians and Poles the same status as American /Israeli Jews have in US? Whats your game, whites?
Hence the nigilism: the thing is failed, citizenship is no barrier for migration of havenots from Africa, but it really hurts people from Middle Income, white countries which are, well White and skilled. Argentinians have more white blood than many many of an american mutt.
Think about it, before going for your knee jerk reactions.
I will never forget the horror I felt the first time I contemplated the idea of a world with theology, philosophy, poetry, pure science, art... even if there remain pockets of homo sapiens about the place, it would amount to human extinction in the most important sense.
As for the abolition of citizenship, I have been saying for some time that civic nationalism is an untenable compromise, because if "skin color" is thin gruel, a piece of paper is even thinner.Replies: @Stan Adams, @ben tillman
The thesis of self-ownership is typically used to justify the idea that any obligation not consented to is unjust, being a violation of self-ownership. But at the same time, advocates of self-ownership think that consent ought to be binding, yet this is not itself something consented to, and so ought to be regarded as a violation of self-ownership but isn't. So the whole thing becomes an exercise in self-refutation or special pleading.
https://collapsetheblog.typepad.com/blog/2011/10/whence-rights-ii-libertarianism.html
A pox on libertarianism.
No, they failed to produce people that are similar in “quality and appeal” to those of the United States. He’s trying to disguise genetics as “citizenship”, as if it could be changed at the stroke of a pen. Abolishing the concept of citizenship (which is Kochenov’s way of saying open the borders) will just reduce white countries to African levels.
One Worlders know that citizenship is extremely valuable. It is something they cannot abide, as it interferes with their stated objective of total equality ( ie taking the white plebs down several pegs.)
Interesting that this guy keeps talking about aristocracy, since the elite One Worlders so obviously see themselves as part of a natural aristocracy. This is clear from their hatred of their fellow citizens who aren’t impressed by their degrees, certificates and fatuous credentialism.
It is the elite One Worlders trying to establish a permanent caste system, not their fellow citizens with the audacity to live normal, happy lives without a thought for the obsessions of our neurotic intelligentsia.
This is one of those rather frequent cases where simply posting a picture of the author is all the rebuttal you need
https://www.google.com/search?q=DIMITRY+KOCHENOV&rlz=1C1VDKB_enGB969__970&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj15NKxz-70AhWQkokEHdaEDWQQ_AUoAnoECAIQBA&biw=1536&bih=664&dpr=1.25
Why would anyone take this guy seriously?
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/06/groningen-law-professor-failed-to-declare-advisory-role-on-maltese-passports/
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/08/04/PDTN/e69af215-c62d-46a5-83d9-12b34c5d90c5-Ghalib_Majewski_2up.jpg
Michigan city gets ready to inaugurate all-Muslim governmentHamtramck was once heavily Polish. One of the councilors is a Polish convert.Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Ian Smith
Steve, did you receive my envelope (mailed on Monday) ? I always wonder if snail mail addressed to you makes it through ‘the system’.
Norway has a claim to part of Antarctica. Their overseas empire.
Is this a pseudonym? People often use them when they have an *.
Dimitry Kochenov = Rode honky victim. Rich donkey vomit:
That must be news to the citizens of Dubai. The WSJ recently reported that Dubai has emerged as a major destination for millionaire migrants and digital nomads from around the world during Covid as they have a 90% vaccination rate and remain open. However, even though the country practices de facto open borders with its ten year visas, citizenship is incredibly difficult to come by, with the requirement of fluency in Arabic, holding valid employment, no criminal records, and at least 30 years of residency, even after marriage to a citizen. Citizenship comes with its perks, including free healthcare, education, even allowances for housing to help support families. But some citizenship perks remain only for the Emerati by blood, not to naturalized citizens.
Ninety percent of Dubai residents are foreigners. How long can they keep up this open border policy before the country becomes too crowded? I’m amazed the natives have not revolted for losing their country and their culture. They must be receiving some major bribes from the government, like cushy government jobs reserved only for native Emeratis. It’ll also be interesting to see what happens when the current immigrants’ children, many born in Dubai, grow up. They will not be able to apply for citizenship until at least 30 and even then, may not get it, or they may not receive some of the benefits available to native Emeratis. Will they accept this second class citizen status for the rest of their lives? If they don’t and are given equal status, then the native Emeratis would probably revolt for losing their special status.
I think most Americans would probably be more tolerant of immigrants if citizenship becomes much harder to come by and is by blood only.
I see that the enclosing UAE has a no less than 72% male population. At a guess the laborers don't get to bring their families with them.
Here in the US the most important chart indicates that the death Spiral has begun. Over the past decade the number of whites has declined by 7 million. But the number of White Americans under the age of 40 has declined by 30 million since 1990 , from 120 million to 87 million today. Regardless of immigration the death spiral cannot be stopped. We no longer have enough fertile whites to maintain the white population. The White fertility rate would need to double to 3.2 from the current 1.6 fertility rate to maintain the white population at 180 million.
Minoritarianism--and globohomo--are a war against that. A war specifically against a nation's people being able to have their nation and live as they wish according to their national norms and culture.
You must be jammed cheek to jowl with ... whomever. You have no right to your community, your nation. You are just a serf.Replies: @ben tillman, @SafeNow, @Glaivester, @Ian M.
Yes, Another Dad, great point, associating with people you are happy with is the most important freedom. But I would like to add one aspect. Sometimes it is not only a matter of the street you live on or the culture of the school board. Sometimes one’s very own family and friends have gone woke, and to them, you are a deplorable person; not just someone with different politics, but a bad person. A heckuva situation.
I hope you find other friends. Lots of us meet at the John Birch Society meetings. This one guy is really friendly, but he talks on some walkie-talkie thing on his shoulder outside the Taco Bell where we meet, and he wears this windbreaker even in the summer that says "F.B.I." for fun I guess... hey, wait, you don't think ...Replies: @SafeNow
It wasn’t “given to ” them, they created it. Previously and/or elsewhere people were subjects. And not just in Asia and Africa.
What is this guy? Dutch? Hungarian? Soviet? A “citizen of the world”?
What’s he doing in Grinslân in illegally-occupied Fryslân? From the professor’s Web site:
Who are U calling a “kunt”, buddy? And he doesn’t even have a national domain– .eu.
Might that have something to do with whom it’s shared with? Apple stock is performing better than Enron.
Norway was part of others’ empires– Denmark’s and Sweden’s. However, they do lay claim to Bouvet Island. That might be considered an empire, should anyone deign to live there.
Kochenov wants to enslave the best humans and enforce dysgenics (which ultimately means extinction) on the entire human race. He is a nihilistic, genocidal psychopath.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @Rosie, @Ian M.
He is a nihilistic guy, a proper russian, this Dimitri. But he comes from a different prospective that you and Sailer assume. Afrika is just a convenient target , because rasssizzzm. And indeed, US is rasist, it just cannot live out this black-white guilt ridden pathology,
But what is the reason to have the classes of citizenships existing between white countries? Why this Dimitri the russian needs to lick boots of US embassy officials (who are a pond scum compared to him, intellectually and often , well, racially as well) to get in, and then suffer slavery under your HIV visas, or what you call them, while Haitian peasants seem to have it as the aristicratic blood right for them to come and stay illegally?
Why denying comservative Hungarians and Poles the same status as American /Israeli Jews have in US? Whats your game, whites?
Hence the nigilism: the thing is failed, citizenship is no barrier for migration of havenots from Africa, but it really hurts people from Middle Income, white countries which are, well White and skilled. Argentinians have more white blood than many many of an american mutt.
Think about it, before going for your knee jerk reactions.
Colonizers vs. colonized? It’s been well over half a century, more like 3 generations, during which those people with “bad citizenships” have had time to get their shit together. It hasn’t happened. They haven’t. Time to think about a plan B, Dmitry.
BTW, AKA Horace’s information on the guy, above, is pretty much what I first thought was going on – this is all personal to this guy. He wants to be faculty at an Ivy League school in the US and is having a hard time with it. Geeze, man, don’t drag the whole civilized world down for your personal problems!
Is that yours? If so, I’m sorry to hear that. I’ve been lucky that when my wife took interest in politics only a few years ago – I had no problem that she hadn’t – she went in the right direction. I just MAY have had something to do with it …
I hope you find other friends. Lots of us meet at the John Birch Society meetings. This one guy is really friendly, but he talks on some walkie-talkie thing on his shoulder outside the Taco Bell where we meet, and he wears this windbreaker even in the summer that says “F.B.I.” for fun I guess… hey, wait, you don’t think …
this sounds like the explanation for the Fermi Paradox
Actually, the best explanation for the Fermi Paradox (which is not a paradox, but more a pertinent objection) is that we really are all alone in the Universe; so all that real estate out there belongs to us.
On the other hand, China’s Yutu 2 rover on the Moon has spotted a cube-shaped object on the horizon. Maybe the Monolith in 2001: A Space Odyssey wasn’t science fiction.
He figures whoever gets their first will need them. Not gonna be cheap though...
The obstacle to this master plan is the pesky institution of Democracy, which requires the consent of the "citizens" before taking away their rights and privileges. But when you redefine national citizenship as globally undemocratic, then circumventing national democracy is a moral imperative. That mindset explains a lot of elite behavior over the last 5 years.
P.S., Why does everyone forget that the U.S. was colonized, and not a colonizers? Being colonized is not what makes a country a shithole. What do "attractive" former colonies like America, Canada, and Australia have in common compared to Haiti, Angola, and the Central African Republic? Hmm . . . .Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @Mr. Grey
You fail to see that nihilistic argument of Dimitri works both ways.
If you deny his logic and accept the bloodline value, next thing you know that your Democracy assigns a higher value to the very Haitians and Africans you seem to dislike. Which it already is doing.
Under the nihilictic argument you can accept as many white Boer or Chileans or whatever, legally. Under citizenship regume of today, the Boer or the Chilean has to lick boots to black State Dept ladies while Haitian enters freely. What sense does it make for you, the conservative?
We can hope that this guy’s bad English will somewhat impede the spread of his bad ideas.
But isnt it a Dream, of them palestinians getting that citizenship.Replies: @International Jew
I'm sorry, the FBI was already devoting its attention to Phantom Nazis and computer-generated Canadian supremacists, the military allowed Pathanistan to slip away while reading offendedly about white male gun owners, the congress was "investigating" several Trump supporters getting beaten and one murdered, uh ... weren't you guys already focusing on "insurrection"? And why in 2024? Is that because you plan to steal that one too?
What pedophile has ever hurt anyone like these dreckgolemim have hurt us?
[but what does unelected bureaucratic expertise being murderously perdendicular to the will of the people have to do woth the topic? For that matter Gilbert is wrong about muscular dystrophy. I don't get it. I seek things to make me go.]
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ex-army-generals-fear-insurrection-or-civil-war-in-2024/ar-AARWtuT?ocid=uxbndlbing
----------
Is Mass Romantic really old enough to drink (below the border that is)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_amzzg34RcReplies: @Thea, @El Dato
Sounds like they are looking for and excuse to send the army after white republicans in 2024 in the name of “stopping the insurrection “
Professor Dimitry Vladimirovich KochenovReplies: @Reg Cæsar, @Moses, @El Dato, @AnotherDad, @Jim Bob Lassiter
Ed Sheeran should hire this guy to stand next to him on stage.
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/06/groningen-law-professor-failed-to-declare-advisory-role-on-maltese-passports/
https://www.dutchnews.nl/wpcms/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/kochenov-cropped-wikipedia-1200x800.jpgReplies: @Reg Cæsar
At least that’s a genuine smile? What is this?
Michigan city gets ready to inaugurate all-Muslim government
Hamtramck was once heavily Polish. One of the councilors is a Polish convert.
We thougt you would, hope for something like that.
But isnt it a Dream, of them palestinians getting that citizenship.
Professor Dimitry Vladimirovich KochenovReplies: @Reg Cæsar, @Moses, @El Dato, @AnotherDad, @Jim Bob Lassiter
I’m gonna need an early life check here. Prolly one of ours, unfortunately.
So (((y'all))) might be in the clear on this one. Still, that hair makes one wonder.
OTOH, as Muggles points out, the sponsor of Prof. Dimitri's schtick is arch-villain Soros. Sigh.
The Norwegians also discredit libertarian theory that only individuals can own wealth, that democracies radically discount the future with their high time preferences, and that state central planning of the economy cannot possibly work, with the Norwegian government’s competently run sovereign wealth fund.
By contrast, even if Haiti had a stable government and enough income to fund a sovereign wealth fund, corruption and black people’s general ineptitude at handling money would keep it from ever amounting to anything.
No. Said fund, like the Alaska Fund was created and catalyzed by Libertarians as proof-of-concept of funding of the commons and social insurances, including a basic income, by voluntary-direction endowments.
This sort of thing is actually a major Libertarian initiative, called by the Libertarian International Organization 'Operation Dignity.' This has been the case for decades.
I think that is the idea.
We used to sing this in school in the 1960’s, at assemblies and Christmas and Thanksgiving performances for parents. A teacher would probably risk prison to have his or her class sing it today.
Dammit, you did it again, Steve. I thought your headline was a joke.
Lenin here is objecting to the Jewish Bund insisting on status as the sole Jewish voice within the socialist movement: https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1903/aug/15b.htm
Citizenship is flawed. Marriage is flawed. Gender is flawed. Race is flawed. Standardized testing is flawed. Policing is flawed. Free speech is flawed. Democracy is flawed. Christendom is flawed. The patriarchy is flawed.
I am beginning to see a pattern here.
Once you accept that “All men are created equal,” the logical consequence is world Communism. You have to reject the absurd premise from the beginning. All else is cuckservatism and defeat.
https://d1lexza0zk46za.cloudfront.net/history/am-docs/calhoun-error.pdf
That's worth a guffaw
I hope you find other friends. Lots of us meet at the John Birch Society meetings. This one guy is really friendly, but he talks on some walkie-talkie thing on his shoulder outside the Taco Bell where we meet, and he wears this windbreaker even in the summer that says "F.B.I." for fun I guess... hey, wait, you don't think ...Replies: @SafeNow
Yes, afraid so, Achmed – – I am one of those deplorables who lost the affection and respect of woke family and friends. Obviously, I don’t have a talent for surrender. But it’s okay, don’t worry, I manage. Thanks for caring, for asking, and for the funny story…I got a good laugh!
Malaysia’s sovereign wealth fund is why “The Wolf of Wall Street” is three hours long.
But, yeah, Norway’s is honest and competent.
If we abolish the idea of citizenship, will the whole world have to pay US income taxes, and UK income taxes, and French income taxes, and Japanese income taxes, and…? Life was crazy enough when there were only three competing popes to tithe!
Is there a rational reason why any Ukrainian should not be able to come to US visa free, and work his way into the upper crust of the society to reach to, live and work amongst the US ruling class. After all his ruling class in Ukraine is made of the very same people of the Pale as USs ruling elite is. Why is the bloodline of an american serf matters so much as to reject the ukrainian serf?
As to the taxes, US is about the only place that taxes her citizens abroad. The answer is very simple: where you are physically present, there you pay your taxes.Replies: @Art Deco
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/08/04/PDTN/e69af215-c62d-46a5-83d9-12b34c5d90c5-Ghalib_Majewski_2up.jpg
Michigan city gets ready to inaugurate all-Muslim governmentHamtramck was once heavily Polish. One of the councilors is a Polish convert.Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Ian Smith
Jan Sobieski’s 1683 victory before Vienna ……………….. undone in Michigan in 2021.
Treasury does have a balance sheet, yes?Replies: @Almost Missouri
Perhaps (but highly unlikely). It would, however, put a massive dent in the asset side of the Treasury balance sheet.
I'm sorry, the FBI was already devoting its attention to Phantom Nazis and computer-generated Canadian supremacists, the military allowed Pathanistan to slip away while reading offendedly about white male gun owners, the congress was "investigating" several Trump supporters getting beaten and one murdered, uh ... weren't you guys already focusing on "insurrection"? And why in 2024? Is that because you plan to steal that one too?
What pedophile has ever hurt anyone like these dreckgolemim have hurt us?
[but what does unelected bureaucratic expertise being murderously perdendicular to the will of the people have to do woth the topic? For that matter Gilbert is wrong about muscular dystrophy. I don't get it. I seek things to make me go.]
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ex-army-generals-fear-insurrection-or-civil-war-in-2024/ar-AARWtuT?ocid=uxbndlbing
----------
Is Mass Romantic really old enough to drink (below the border that is)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_amzzg34RcReplies: @Thea, @El Dato
Military is like gay sex and you are cruising. You are looking for new “opportunities” all the time and making passes.
Meanwhile, P.U.T.I.N. has submitted a maximalized deconfliction policy proposal for US-Russian “peerness”, and a rollback of NATO to what is used to be 1997 (remember those times?)
Not a chance it will be accepted right now. Maybe in 20 years.
People want to be separate from other races and tribes. Forcing them together by means of immigration won’t change that. All that happens is they go from separating at the macro level to separating at the micro level, i.e. white flight, etc. and all the hardship and expense that entails. No punishment is cruel enough for nation-wreckers like Kochenov.
If you deny his logic and accept the bloodline value, next thing you know that your Democracy assigns a higher value to the very Haitians and Africans you seem to dislike. Which it already is doing.
Under the nihilictic argument you can accept as many white Boer or Chileans or whatever, legally. Under citizenship regume of today, the Boer or the Chilean has to lick boots to black State Dept ladies while Haitian enters freely. What sense does it make for you, the conservative?Replies: @Almost Missouri
Agree, people like Dimitri are arguing in bad faith.
It’s a shell game. Either you buy what Dimitri is selling, or you’re railroaded into some other prepared woke cul-de-sac ambush.
Steve mentioned somewhere that the computer scientist John McCarthy said that maybe Jefferson inadvertently left out a vital word in the Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, [in] that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights…” Quite a difference.
Is the ‘CEU’ George Soros’ privately funded and wholly owned little vanity project of a fake university?
If so, all that welter of word salad, blah blah blah, “black *REALLY* is white, because I say so” verbiage is merely a case of that ancient truism and adage ” He who pays the piper calls the tune “.
Anyhow, it’s no coincidence that the words ‘civilization’, ‘city’ and ‘citizen’ all derive from the same root, or more to the point there simply cannot be any ‘democracy’ without a demos.
Or even no ‘Res Publica’ without a public.
On a more personal note, why doesn’t the good professor actually practices what he preaches – he talks a good fight – and rather than spend his resources and wealth on the maintenance of ‘his own’ people, (his family), who by ‘accident of birth’ he happens to have a genetic relationship with, he should pour his resources to the world’s children equally.
He is eminently capable of doing this, a myriad of charities would be grateful for his donation.
But I’m not holding my breath.
What a turd!
Only a complete idiot would believe that all men are created equal and endowed by an imaginary Creator with inalienable “rights”.
This is just another example of what happens when you take religion too seriously and it goes viral, making everyone sick.
There is never an end to it and you soon go from human rights to animal rights to insect rights.
And a generation or two from now our descendants will be debating the rights of bacteria and viruses endowed by their creator within a inalienable rights. The anti-vaxxers are just the forerunners of this.
What is needed is not the abolition of citizenship, but the abolition of currencies, or at least having the whole planet united under one currency called the globo. Then each nation can figure out how to create more globos to contribute to the pool.
But isnt it a Dream, of them palestinians getting that citizenship.Replies: @International Jew
You and he should team up.
It makes you wonder what this guy is doing in Europe, a place where countries so cruelly restrict their citizenship. He could practise what he preaches about citizenship of the world and relocate to Mogadishu or Kabul.
Personally, I’ve always preferred Kipling’s “If you take the first step, you will take the last!” But no matter, as the sentiment surely predates both Lenin and Kipling.
And yes,
This is the the crux of it. Seemingly inconsequential philosophical concessions build up until horrifying consequences become inevitable. (“No one thinks of winter when the grass is green!” —from that same Kipling poem.)
And in this case, Prof. Kochenov conveniently puts his errors right at the beginning:
Sex is real. Race is real. And aristocracy is real too. By assuming they don’t exist, and/or do exist but are bad, Prof. Kochenov makes his entire train of subsequent reasoning inevitable, and inevitably wrong.
Presumably, no one here needs convincing that sex and race are real, but aristocracy may be a stretch for people raised amidst the yammering of “democracy” (a word that does not appear in the US Constitution). But aristos is simply the Greek word for “best”. Who wouldn’t want government by the best? Indeed, it is so obvious, it is almost tautological.
Ah, but how do we know who is best? Traditionally, this was decided by combat. Stronger = better = aristos. Since firearms have now empowered anyone who can pull a trigger (still well short of everyone) as compared to the old warrior elite, the combat-determined aristos expanded to include the citizen-soldier, a trend which reached its high-water mark around the middle of last century. Since then, the citizen-soldiery itself has been in decline, while the democracy-concept that they enabled has carried on expanding in a ghost-life unmoored from its underlying reality. This ungrounded concept of “democracy = good” enables delusions like those professed by Professor Kochenov. But he is only saying plainly what many people now believe in a much less articulate way. And yes, this belief is mistaken and will usher in many disasters. Heading off these disasters can ultimately only be done at the source: the false beliefs of equalism. If only Thomas Jefferson had remembered to use the word “in”…
HBD, sexual dimorphism, Nietzsche and freedom aren’t just good ideas, they are literally the antidote to catastrophe.
Why Dimitri, the professor, has , to americans, a lower value , in HBD sense, than certain minority of their citizens, whose lives matter? Or white single mothers who are super brave to get payments for beung single? Or gays who became old without progeny.
I think your idea and others here idea of aristocracy need a correction. The Bridge on the River Kwai could pehaps help. As an example. Theres one British Aristocrate, he is ready to stand torture to stay the aristocrate, but has no qualms at all at entering Japanese service as long as his personal dignity is kept. For aristocracy is a personal trait, not citizenship papers. For an aristocrate, other classes are scum.
So, abolishing citizenship may ehnance performance of the best people, by removing the artificial barriers. It will likely also improve morale by killing welfare state.Replies: @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad
His release will help BLACK BROWN and POOR people get fairer trials in the future!
A great pitch and it is working ... and major media is on board:
'Here’s Why Justice May Demand That Harvey Weinstein Goes Free'
https://news.yahoo.com/why-justice-may-demand-harvey-001506541.htmlReplies: @Inquiring Mind, @Sick of Orcs, @Anonymous
Overzealous prosecutions are now reserved for Whites Only (Shields, Chauvin and the Satilla Three.)
The alternative to citizenship is subjugation. Before we were citizens we were subjects.
If those in power can just simply import millions of people who will vote for them, then there is no longer any such thing as democracy. The people who control the spigot of immigration control the country in perpetuity.
Just consider that the last two presidential elections have been decided by less than 100,000 votes total, and that twice that many people have been illegally entering the United States every single month since President Ron Klain’s inauguration.
Now, if the world is this uniform, what about the citizenship? Tell us the reason , except "we used to have this thing when our country was an undependent power, before the Great War".
As deeds to homes exists today….as titles to cars exist today…as stock certificates exist today….as bank accounts exist today…they are basically tools to instill absolute inequality between those who have them and those who do not. We need to abolish them all to promote inclusion, liberation, and fairness.
Citizenship is the most valuable thing that most Westerners have. It is valuable not because of the specific plot of land it grants us a right to live on, but because of the way Westerners behave. If we cease to behave in a way that creates peaceful, prosperous nations, as we have at times (see: Germany, 1939) then our nations will cease to be prosperous. If there is no incentive to creating peaceful prosperous nations then we will soon cease to do so.
And in fact that seems to be the very argument that the Left is using. Peace and prosperity are now counter evolutionary. People who live in failed states are entitled to move to free and prosperous states. People who live in Somalia and Afghanistan and Nigeria are entitled to live in the United States and Europe by virtue of the abject shitholes they’ve created. The shittier your shithole gets the more countries more of your people are entitled to move to.
Minoritarianism--and globohomo--are a war against that. A war specifically against a nation's people being able to have their nation and live as they wish according to their national norms and culture.
You must be jammed cheek to jowl with ... whomever. You have no right to your community, your nation. You are just a serf.Replies: @ben tillman, @SafeNow, @Glaivester, @Ian M.
More precisely, the most fundamental freedom is the freedom NOT to associate with the people you do NOT want to associate with.
Professor Dimitry Vladimirovich KochenovReplies: @Reg Cæsar, @Moses, @El Dato, @AnotherDad, @Jim Bob Lassiter
Looks like a web designer who also has a music hobby.
OJ Simpson just got early release from parole and is now a free man, so there is that. Who is on his Christmas card list? Cosby? Al Cowlings? Hertz?
This Kochenov didn’t refer to any principles from which anything could follow.
Have you read John Calhoun’s critique of that slogan?
https://d1lexza0zk46za.cloudfront.net/history/am-docs/calhoun-error.pdf
Steve, I think this should be:
“…the Only True Ideal: that blacks should have as much money and as many plaques as whites.”
However, I also seem to have missed the memo legalizing abolition the distinctions between amount and number, from or than vs. to, etc.
Or did you say it that way ironically?
Presumably Kochenov believes the core modern liberal precept that it’s fundamentally unfair if any one person is better off than anyone else, from which it does indeed follow that citizenship must be abolished.
No common ancestor for 1000 years?
Maybe, but I thought, somehow, pretty much in the 1000-year-ago timeframe, boy were the Irish “mixed”, if that is the word you are calling it, with Norwegians?
It isn’t much of an exaggeration to say we are doing precisely that right now. What is required to receive practically all the benefits of citizenship is to merely to walk across the border and declare asylum. At that point, you will be processed and released into the US, with a request that you show up for a hearing. If you do not show up for that hearing, there will be no consequences. If you are arrested at a later date for an unrelated crime, you will still be allowed to stay.
You will receive medical care if you are sick and your children will be educated for free. Other benefits will be available as well, depending on which state you chose to live. You will not be allowed to vote, but if you do so, there is little chance that it will be detected and/or prosecuted.
Sounds like the abolishment of citizenship to me.
Marx, Twain, or somebody else quipped that history doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes. Now here’s Academician Kochenov, merrily pouring hundred-year-old Bolshevik tropes into new bottles. The warm fantasy of the Revolution sparked in Russia, quickly burning down all of Europe! The Vanguard of the Proletariat, ruling the globe! World citizenship!
The topics of the 379 stories returned by the search [site:unz.com/isteve “what could possibly go wrong”] are diverse and amusing.
> Professor Dimitry Vladimirovich Kochenov leads the Rule of Law workgroup at the CEU Democracy Institute.
Rule of Law
That‘s worth a guffaw
What was that again which Edmund Burke said about the nation state being a sacred compact between generations living, dead and yet to come?
His release will help BLACK BROWN and POOR people get fairer trials in the future!
A great pitch and it is working ... and major media is on board:
'Here’s Why Justice May Demand That Harvey Weinstein Goes Free'
https://news.yahoo.com/why-justice-may-demand-harvey-001506541.htmlReplies: @Inquiring Mind, @Sick of Orcs, @Anonymous
Totem Pole! Totem Pole!
All is Totem Pole!
New York City is well along in that regard.
As of December 9, people who are not citizens can vote. National Public Radio claims that there are 800,000 of them, which means the real number is probably much higher.
Take that, Staten Island!
Yeah, and if we Do not abolish the citizenship, will US stop kidnapping people that are not even her citizens , across the World? Assange and hairy folks from Gitmo and various “hackers” being the examples.
Is there a rational reason why any Ukrainian should not be able to come to US visa free, and work his way into the upper crust of the society to reach to, live and work amongst the US ruling class. After all his ruling class in Ukraine is made of the very same people of the Pale as USs ruling elite is. Why is the bloodline of an american serf matters so much as to reject the ukrainian serf?
As to the taxes, US is about the only place that taxes her citizens abroad. The answer is very simple: where you are physically present, there you pay your taxes.
The hairy folks at Gitmo could stay off battlefields. NB, at one time, irregular troops could be executed at the discretion of field commanders. A WWii veteran of my acquaintance said put 'em on a raft and point 'em to Asia.
The Malay language has a (it’s a moderately contemptuous word that is not free of racial overtones) term for an ethnic Chinese businessman in Malaysia or Indonesia who handles the financial affairs and investments for a powerful “bumi” (native, implicitly Muslim) powerbroker: “cukong”. Because they are Chinese, they can’t pose a political threat to you, are dependent on your good will, and make for good red meat for when the masses are angry and need a sacrifice. Probably the cukong par excellance was Suharto’s Lim Sieo Liong, the guy behind Indofood, among other things.
(To be fair to the Malays, after seeing how ethnic Chinese in the Philippines operated and their utter, total contempt for the natives, I now understand why they viewed keeping them in control as a necessity: even if it meant not becoming the Fifth Asian Tiger along with their one time Chinese dominated port to the south…)
I used to think America, whatever its faults, didn’t have this kind of thing. But really, we do. Just look at Jeff Epstein. What was he if not an American version of the cukong? And he was silenced when he became an inconvenience for oligarchs who might have been diddling the girls who provided. So he provided the “get the spotlight off me” card as much as the “manage my finances” one.
Say what you will about Malaysia, at least Jho Low is alive, and you won’t be blocked on social media for commenting about it.
The truly disgusting part to this is that for a good chunk of Americans, “I am a citizen” is the only claim to protection they have left: whether legally, as a barrier against the unrestricted forces global capital, or whatever else.
This is class warfare aiming to create a neo-feudal world. Make no mistake.
All these people who gas on about "our democracy" while also tacitly espousing World Government never seem to grasp how undemocratic World Government inevitably will be.
What it will really be - as you point out - what globalist oligarchs intend for it to be, is ne0-feudalism.
For the Japanese the top 10% probably starts with “the Japanese”. (Not for me, but works for them.)
This post is basically a bright neon reminder that to fight these scum, HBD–asserting HBD–is critical.
People are different and quite naturally behave differently and produce different life outcomes. Groups of people are different–though thousands of years of gene-culture co-evolution and produce different sorts of societies.
Sure it is weird to run around asserting these fundamental truths which are utterly obvious and were commonly understood by everyone even 60 years ago when i was a kid. But the lies to install this minoritarian brain disease have been pushed so relentlessly, that now even the obvious must be spoken clearly, forcefully to make any political progress toward saving civilization.
And, hows it been working for you? How well did your state, your citizenship helped you to segregate yourself?
The question of living with whom you like to live does not necessarily leads to the answer “i want my own and everyone elses Freedom of movement be limited by Governments because of bloodlines”.
It is very easy to imagine your own government forcing you to live together with certain bloodlines you disapprove of, in the name of Equity and being good citizen. Why preserve the institute of the citizenship then?
My neighbor has the right to leave his house. He doesn't have the right to come into mine.
I have the right to leave the US. But not the right to plop my white ass down in Japan. (The Japanese would be wise to keep me and all non-Japanese as "visitors only" and keep their patch for themselves.)
Denying someone the right to leave is making them a serf. (How i knew the Soviets/commies were the badies.)
But imposing yourself on other people who do not want you is making them a serf. Forcing yourself on them against their will--so you can get what you want from them.
That's the heart of minoritarianism--the majority can not keep its community, its stuff, but must be open for minorities to use. The ideology of the rapist.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
Looks like he was putting his ideas in practice by participating somehow in a scheme of selling Maltese passports. Wikipedia says his European host were not amused.
The guy isnt a hypocrite , hes a nihilist.
Are we not subjects? Any country on Earth handling Covid differently? This level of uniformity of response should tell us something.
Now, if the world is this uniform, what about the citizenship? Tell us the reason , except “we used to have this thing when our country was an undependent power, before the Great War”.
CEU, where that professor works, is founded and funded by Soros. It’s a brainwashing think tank…
Kochenov makes a valid point that there is an element of luck in life’s lottery. But citizenship isn’t a ”right” because it comes with an obligation. Being born to a wealthy aristocratic British family in 1895 was to seemingly have won life’s lottery. Fast forward 21 years and instead of having servants serving you dinner in your family mansion you are a subaltern in the British Army going ” over the top ” leading your men into German machine gun fire at the Battle of the Somme. Given a choice when the whistle blew sending you into harm’s way you might have preferred to renounce your privilege but you can’t because the former led you, ineluctably, to your present situation and your younger brother will inherit your title and position in life.
Kochenov ignores this part of the bargain of ”citizenship” even if it isn’t always that severe though, over the course of a lifetime it usually will be to at least one member of a family ”endowed” with citizenship in a privileged country. It is this for this reason we need to stop treating being a holder of passport or residency in a nation as the equivalent of being a genuine ”citizen” of a nation. Some Hindu or Muslim emigre with a US passport and residency permit for the United States is likely to want to get the ”hell out of Dodge” if the US gets in a shooting war with China. The oath of allegiance they took to the United States of America will not be honored as soon as a ”Greetings from the President” letter arrives in their mailbox ordering them or their son to appear for induction into the American armed forces.
I actually have a lot more confidence in Latino and East Asian immigrants remaining loyal in such a crisis than Hindus, Muslims or even our own negroes. The latter have become accustomed to only being the beneficiaries of government programs and the former only showed up to enrich themselves.
Earlier than that, in Napoleonic wars, any aristocrate could join any army whatsoever, Russian, French, Austrian , etc. And even could switch sides during the brief periods of peace they had. So citizenship wasnt all that necessary.
Militarily, any conscript or pressed volounteer will do, as long as they have enough IQ to get trained. No one gets drafted willingly, but state can press anyone. And when you are in the army you have no choice but fight. So your reason of existence as a cannon fodder for the coming war with China is not as strong, any Ukrainian or Pole will probably do at least equally well. Why citizenship?Replies: @Almost Missouri
There is no "me" that pops to life in Japan or Bangladesh or Nigeria. There is no "me" that is black or Mexican or Chinese. There is no "me" that is born crippled or blind or ugly or stupid. All those other people--maybe be wonderful people, or not--are not "me".
There is only this "me"--born to my American midwestern parents. And so i inherit America--not those other folks. My ancestors worked to make their community nation, great and i inherit that.
There is nothing the least bit "unfair" about it. Even though there may be millions of people out there who are "better people" than i am, born in shittier nations. They needed to pick their parents more carefully. (Except then they would not be the people they are.)
~~
And it is ongoing--forever. My kids are inheriting an America that is not as nice as it should be because me, my parents, and our fellow Americans in our generation did not do a good job policing our joint. We didn't confront and destroy the minoritarians as they spewed their toxic ideas and policies. That's our failure ... and my kids inherit that. They don't have any claim on Japan or China or even Hungary or Poland or anywhere else where the people may be doing better on rejecting toxic ideas and practicing "demographic hygiene".
Quite true. Well said.
All these people who gas on about “our democracy” while also tacitly espousing World Government never seem to grasp how undemocratic World Government inevitably will be.
What it will really be – as you point out – what globalist oligarchs intend for it to be, is ne0-feudalism.
Ultimately this is about the revival of communism.Replies: @Rosie
Of course, he was right in a way, wasn’t he?
steve has autism voice.
dimitry has autism face.
sad.
Kochenov wants to enslave the best humans and enforce dysgenics (which ultimately means extinction) on the entire human race. He is a nihilistic, genocidal psychopath.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @Rosie, @Ian M.
IMO, dysgenics = human extinction.
I will never forget the horror I felt the first time I contemplated the idea of a world with theology, philosophy, poetry, pure science, art… even if there remain pockets of homo sapiens about the place, it would amount to human extinction in the most important sense.
As for the abolition of citizenship, I have been saying for some time that civic nationalism is an untenable compromise, because if “skin color” is thin gruel, a piece of paper is even thinner.
Norway was somewhat famously called “the last Soviet state” by a Swedish social-democrat government minister, Björn Rosengren. They seem not to mind, coming in their Tesla SUVs and whatnot for cheap cross-border shopping in our low-cost country.
Without spending a lot of time scanning prior comments (which I will do eventually) my question is this:
What and where is the CEU Institute?
Where is it located? Who funds it? Why should anyone pay attention to some Russian (or whatever) going on and on about some highly unlikely proposal?
Does the nation/country where “CEU” is located have any serious plan or proposal to eliminate citizenship? If not, just another off track idea.
Okay, worth knowing about maybe, but not excited about…
I guess it is Soros U.
Okay, now it is clearer why this nonsense is being uttered.
Is the good Professor planning to give a "no citizenship for anyone" lecture in Tel Aviv any time soon?
Most of the 85% are Indian and Paki guest workers (laborers), with some western expats.
I see that the enclosing UAE has a no less than 72% male population. At a guess the laborers don’t get to bring their families with them.
As of December 9, people who are not citizens can vote. National Public Radio claims that there are 800,000 of them, which means the real number is probably much higher.
Take that, Staten Island!Replies: @Art Deco
Fairly sure the New York City council has no authority to pass such legislation. Eligibility is regulated by the state constitution and state election law.
Is there a rational reason why any Ukrainian should not be able to come to US visa free, and work his way into the upper crust of the society to reach to, live and work amongst the US ruling class. After all his ruling class in Ukraine is made of the very same people of the Pale as USs ruling elite is. Why is the bloodline of an american serf matters so much as to reject the ukrainian serf?
As to the taxes, US is about the only place that taxes her citizens abroad. The answer is very simple: where you are physically present, there you pay your taxes.Replies: @Art Deco
will US stop kidnapping people that are not even her citizens , across the World? Assange and hairy folks from Gitmo
The hairy folks at Gitmo could stay off battlefields. NB, at one time, irregular troops could be executed at the discretion of field commanders. A WWii veteran of my acquaintance said put ’em on a raft and point ’em to Asia.
dimitry has autism face.
sad.
https://imgn.rgcdn.nl/03cb649f41f94cecbb234219d8b2045c/opener/Dimitry-Kochenov-Foto-Nieuwsuur.jpgReplies: @nebulafox
He just looks like a dork to me.
Dimitry Vladimirovich Kochenov is an expert on citizenship and nationality law who held a chair in European Constitutional law and Citizenship at the University of Groningen.[1] He considers citizenship to be an unjustifiable form of apartheid, comparing it to racism, sexism, and slavery, and advocates its complete abolition.[2]
Following a 2019 investigation by Dutch news program Nieuwsuur, University of Groningen conducted an investigation into Kochenov's paid consulting activities related to the "passport trade", including his role with Henley & Partners and advising Malta on a law change to allow citizenship by investment. In 2020, he was reprimanded by the university for breaching its conflict of interest rules, having failed to disclose his external side jobs.[3][4] As a result of the scandal, Kochenov left the university, as reported in April 2021.[3]
Replies: @AnotherDad, @Philip Neal
In other words, he’s a textbook “parasite”.
— Produces nothing of value.
— Feeds on the host.
— Weakens and destroys the host.
The modern nation state is the best organization we’ve come up with–community/tribe at scale.
But one of the problems with it has been diminution of the sort of “parasite policing” that traditional tribes/communities had to do. Where you kick out (or kill off) the parasites–criminals, crazy, lazy, uncooperative–who won’t get with the program and pull their weight.
For the West to survive, the productive majorities in Western nations must organize and develop the will to expel (i’m by default, just a really nice guy)–or kill off if they won’t leave–those people who feed on them and seek to weaken them.
~
Conservative\Republican propagandists and politicians really need to say “parasite”. It is incredibly clarifying and will really get a rise out of the usual suspects.
Professor Dimitry Vladimirovich KochenovReplies: @Reg Cæsar, @Moses, @El Dato, @AnotherDad, @Jim Bob Lassiter
The Banality–Clownishness, Tediousness, Ugliness, Vapidity–of Evil.
Regardless of A or B, my question is whether we will able to, at least, save indoor plumbing and avoid the cannibalism that plagued Lenin’s Soviet Union….
Not really. He goes on to say that “among these are …” Jeff didn’t claim that his list was complete. So, the introductory clause is still going to guide what gets added to the list.
What and where is the CEU Institute?
Where is it located? Who funds it? Why should anyone pay attention to some Russian (or whatever) going on and on about some highly unlikely proposal?
Does the nation/country where "CEU" is located have any serious plan or proposal to eliminate citizenship? If not, just another off track idea.
Okay, worth knowing about maybe, but not excited about...Replies: @Muggles
I seldom reply to my own questions (posed earlier) but CEU evidently means “Central European University.”
I guess it is Soros U.
Okay, now it is clearer why this nonsense is being uttered.
Is the good Professor planning to give a “no citizenship for anyone” lecture in Tel Aviv any time soon?
That’s packing a lot of “discrediting” by citing arguments no libertarian I have ever heard of makes.
There is no reason why a government (claiming monopoly ownership of offshore minerals, regardless who who discovers and develops them) can’t accumulate funds and invest them properly.
Norway was never “socialist” meaning state ownership of means of production (despite grabbing mineral rights.) Nor is it impossible or unlibertarian for state actors to invest in markets with government funds.
If anything, this demonstrates that even state employees prefer free markets to 5 Year Plans and government “investing” wizardry. Some of the largest pools of privately invested capital come from state and local employee pension funds (CALPERS) investing in mainly private businesses for the future retirement benefits of state employees. What, they aren’t all investing in government bonds? Like Social Security “Trust Funds” in US Treasuries?
Next time you want to trash “libertarians” you might try to use other than strawman arguments. Or strawwomen. Or strawtrans. Or strawLBGTQ+ arguments. (A lot of bases to cover now…)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_spending_as_percentage_of_GDPI don't know much about this sort of thing, but at first blush, it seems to me that state ownership of mineral rights is the only just possibility. I have always wondered by what moral right the government can assign the people's natural resources to private individuals.
An example that hits closer to home. How do land developers get the right to set up subdivisions that where you can't build a <2000 square foot house? Anybody know? There is a massive shortage of normal sized houses ("starter homes" in realtorese) that is only going to get worse with boomers downsizing and endless immigration.Replies: @Ben tillman, @Muggles
Actually, the best explanation for the Fermi Paradox (which is not a paradox, but more a pertinent objection) is that we really are all alone in the Universe; so all that real estate out there belongs to us.On the other hand, China's Yutu 2 rover on the Moon has spotted a cube-shaped object on the horizon. Maybe the Monolith in 2001: A Space Odyssey wasn't science fiction.Replies: @Muggles
Nah, that’s just Elon Musk’s robotic Tesla production facility for battery operated Moon Rovers.
He figures whoever gets their first will need them. Not gonna be cheap though…
Well, abolishing citizenship will complement rewriting the First and Second Amendments to the United States Constitution.
I didn’t make up the part about the libertarian theory that democracies promote high time preference behavior; the Austrian-school economist Hans-Hermann Hoppe and argued this point for years. I’d like to know what Hoppe has to say about democracies which manage sovereign wealth funds productively.
But more to my point, the cognitive ability of a country’s population determines its prosperity. That matters a lot more than how the population structures its economy. De-communizing a population of generally dull people won’t really make them much better off, as we can see from the fact that Cuba’s per capita GDP falls into the neighborhood of the figures for other Latin American countries which we don’t consider communist.
Marx was pretty good at describing and disastrous at prescribing.
“Equality” is not a principle.
The obstacle to this master plan is the pesky institution of Democracy, which requires the consent of the "citizens" before taking away their rights and privileges. But when you redefine national citizenship as globally undemocratic, then circumventing national democracy is a moral imperative. That mindset explains a lot of elite behavior over the last 5 years.
P.S., Why does everyone forget that the U.S. was colonized, and not a colonizers? Being colonized is not what makes a country a shithole. What do "attractive" former colonies like America, Canada, and Australia have in common compared to Haiti, Angola, and the Central African Republic? Hmm . . . .Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @Mr. Grey
That’s not accurate, the English settlers in America considered themselves fully English, which what led eventually to them arguing Parliament had no right to make laws over them without their representation. But to your point Ireland, Finland, Singapore, and South Korea all suffered as bad if not worse conditions that your typical proud African kingdom.
-- Produces nothing of value.
-- Feeds on the host.
-- Weakens and destroys the host.
The modern nation state is the best organization we've come up with--community/tribe at scale.
But one of the problems with it has been diminution of the sort of "parasite policing" that traditional tribes/communities had to do. Where you kick out (or kill off) the parasites--criminals, crazy, lazy, uncooperative--who won't get with the program and pull their weight.
For the West to survive, the productive majorities in Western nations must organize and develop the will to expel (i'm by default, just a really nice guy)--or kill off if they won't leave--those people who feed on them and seek to weaken them.
~
Conservative\Republican propagandists and politicians really need to say "parasite". It is incredibly clarifying and will really get a rise out of the usual suspects.Replies: @Ben tillman, @Richard B
He’s not just a parasite. He’s also a pathogen.
Feminization of the world means "no differentiating." Friend/foe. Rich/poor. Polite/rude.
Good/bad. Beautiful/ugly. Smart/dumb. Men/women. Trans men/Bio men. Old/Young. Communism/Capitalism. Freedom/Restricted. We are all the same.
Citizenship is a good one to start with, because while it may be an accident-of-birth, we (in the west) can choose, including to abolish it. If we get rid of SAT/ACH tests, then there will be no difference. Harvard University, or the La Verne School for Men and Women.
China and Russia aren't having these conversations, or open to them. So, the Russian writer of this piece will see if it sticks when he tries it out on western audiences.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
You are entirely missing the point. Of course, abolishing Citizenship will abolish the Welfare state.
And thats a horrible thought. Because welfare state is what family values is about. Without welfare state, Those brave single mothers will starve. Those old childless gays will starve too.
How do they even live in Russia or China or Ukraine, without the wellfare state? Right?
Basically, this is a great idea: do away with your citizenship, together with the dole. Become a free man, live where you want, pay taxes and vote where you live. I have not found an argument against Dimitris logic anywhere in the comments except the fear for cherished Western wellfare state.
Hear Hear.
Until 1915, Passports to travel and residency permits didn't exist expect for certain gov't officials. Christ, until the 1920s - the border between the US/Canada and US/Mexico was non-existent as far as anyone could tell. The key is of course to eliminate all welfare.
Dimitry Vladimirovich Kochenov is an expert on citizenship and nationality law who held a chair in European Constitutional law and Citizenship at the University of Groningen.[1] He considers citizenship to be an unjustifiable form of apartheid, comparing it to racism, sexism, and slavery, and advocates its complete abolition.[2]
Following a 2019 investigation by Dutch news program Nieuwsuur, University of Groningen conducted an investigation into Kochenov's paid consulting activities related to the "passport trade", including his role with Henley & Partners and advising Malta on a law change to allow citizenship by investment. In 2020, he was reprimanded by the university for breaching its conflict of interest rules, having failed to disclose his external side jobs.[3][4] As a result of the scandal, Kochenov left the university, as reported in April 2021.[3]
Replies: @AnotherDad, @Philip Neal
Yes.
The link is wrong, it should be this, where Dimitry Vladimirovich Kochenov tells us that
and we read that
A search on his name sheds some light on the missing years of the passport professor.
For those who don’t know, the background to this is events in Poland and Hungary. The executives of those countries, having commanded the required number of votes in the legislature (in Hungary a supermajority) have reduced the powers of the judiciary. Moreover, the current supreme court of Poland has declared that it is legally superior to the supreme court of the European Union (so has the supreme court of Germany, but who cares?)
What Kochenov means by a citizen is a member of the electorate, and his ultimate aim is a global legal order, with a world supreme court with can nullify any law passed by any legislature. Like Lord Mansfield and Roger Taney, he will deliver us from the evil of positive law.
Kochenov ignores this part of the bargain of ''citizenship'' even if it isn't always that severe though, over the course of a lifetime it usually will be to at least one member of a family ''endowed" with citizenship in a privileged country. It is this for this reason we need to stop treating being a holder of passport or residency in a nation as the equivalent of being a genuine ''citizen'' of a nation. Some Hindu or Muslim emigre with a US passport and residency permit for the United States is likely to want to get the ''hell out of Dodge" if the US gets in a shooting war with China. The oath of allegiance they took to the United States of America will not be honored as soon as a ''Greetings from the President'' letter arrives in their mailbox ordering them or their son to appear for induction into the American armed forces.
I actually have a lot more confidence in Latino and East Asian immigrants remaining loyal in such a crisis than Hindus, Muslims or even our own negroes. The latter have become accustomed to only being the beneficiaries of government programs and the former only showed up to enrich themselves.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @AnotherDad
You seem to equate british aristocrates that owned the country with (potential) american draftees . Thats not very correct. And may be not super true: most of the american aristocracy except Al Gore had dodged the vietnam draft. And Gore was a journalist there.
Earlier than that, in Napoleonic wars, any aristocrate could join any army whatsoever, Russian, French, Austrian , etc. And even could switch sides during the brief periods of peace they had. So citizenship wasnt all that necessary.
Militarily, any conscript or pressed volounteer will do, as long as they have enough IQ to get trained. No one gets drafted willingly, but state can press anyone. And when you are in the army you have no choice but fight. So your reason of existence as a cannon fodder for the coming war with China is not as strong, any Ukrainian or Pole will probably do at least equally well. Why citizenship?
The Era of Citizenship began (depending on location) approximately in the 18th century as relatively effective and relatively cheap muskets became the great leveler on the battlefield. The medieval bow and sword were bespoke, expensive tools of combat, requiring a lifetime of practice starting in childhood. This resulted in warrior castes, who could be fought against, but whose superior skill at arms was generally insurmountable by non-warriors. The musket, powerful enough to penetrate medieval armor, cheap enough to be afforded by any self-reliant worker, and simple enough to master without quitting your day job, changed all that. The side who could get more modestly-drilled musket-bearing men on the battlefield vis-à-vis the other side won. So how to get more musketmen? That became the basic recipe for democracy and citizenship.
So yes, medieval aristocrats notoriously switched sides all the time and drove whatever peasant levees they could lay hands on into battle before them in an unending quest for advantage in the continent-wide mafia competitions we know today as "medieval history". But when musket balls are ending all that privilege before you can even get to close quarters, the equation shifts drastically. What commands the loyalty, organization and commitment of thousands—then tens of thousands, then hundreds of thousand, and eventually millions—of men who are not professional warriors but whose ability simply to carry a rifle, load a cannon, calculate a shell trajectory, or build an aircraft engine now determine who is victor and who is vanquished? The answer is Citizenship. By World War I, the British royal family—perhaps the ne plus ultra of aristocrats—famously renounced their name (House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha) in order to be more closely identified with their subjects (so now House of Windsor) rather than with the opponent side to whom they were actually more closely related.
The new Citizenship equation looked set to conquer the world, indeed, was conquering the world, until a new shift occurred on the morning of the first nuclear detonation. From that moment forward, a small coterie commanding moderate technical resources could will instant annihilation upon an enemy, and as technical advances proceeded, could do so from and to anywhere on earth. The American GIs who in 1945 (understandably) drunkenly celebrated that they would no longer have to be machinegunned on the beaches of the Rising Sun overlooked that the basic equation of their Citizenship had just been fatally fractured.
Put into crude economic terms, since the invention of musketry, labor had been gaining the upper hand over capital on the battlefield. You no longer needed expensive fitted armor and exquisitely trained horses to win. A bunch of capable men with gun tubes was enough. To be sure, the development of more and more sophisticated firearms, artillery, ships, tanks, and aircraft were restoring capital's role, but only as the handmaid to the mass military. But today, the technical power of capital has developed so decisively, particularly in increasingly effective surveillance technology, that the mass army of labor—and the consent of the governed that went with it—is no longer necessary. Wealth, power and control are again available to medieval mafia competitors without the need to resort such archaic notions as representation, mass education, or exemplary virtue. Now that most of the population is no longer needed for mass conscript armies, much population is simply surplus, to be managed, its influence minimized, its interests neglected.
Exactly how the new equation will play out is still being determined. Much of the local commentary here could be said to be attempting to describe and even to influence that result.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
If the government spending 50%+ of GDP constitutes “central planning,” then we can safely say it works just fine, with the right demographics, of course.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_spending_as_percentage_of_GDP
I don’t know much about this sort of thing, but at first blush, it seems to me that state ownership of mineral rights is the only just possibility. I have always wondered by what moral right the government can assign the people’s natural resources to private individuals.
An example that hits closer to home. How do land developers get the right to set up subdivisions that where you can’t build a <2000 square foot house? Anybody know? There is a massive shortage of normal sized houses ("starter homes" in realtorese) that is only going to get worse with boomers downsizing and endless immigration.
You ask, 'by what moral right' and yet you load the question with a faulty premise.
What are "the people's natural resources?"
The oil sitting under my Texas ranch (I wish)? In the USA, when you own land you usually own what is below (and sometimes air rights of some sort above). In many countries you don't own the mineral rights. Seabed and underneath mineral rights are dictated by national law and international treaty.
There is a very old and elaborate system of property rights in America. That varies by nation. In places where property rights are more inclusive, you have more development of underground minerals. Mineral explorers lease property from owners to run seismic surveys or even drill exploratory wells. This is all done by contract.
These rights can be separately sold off of course.
As to your second point about developers limiting housing sizes, etc. this again comes with ownership. Developers have to first buy the property. They they add streets, sewers, lights, etc. and sell off lots to actual builders or in some cases, individuals.
They create initial restrictions to maximize the sale of lots to home builders who will buy bigger lots with more amenities. In some jurisdictions you have binding deed restrictions which limit how small or large homes can be, and other restrictions. In the US said restrictions originally about race were legally declared void due to civil rights law.
You ask some good questions but answers can be easily found. Most real estate agents know about this, as does any halfway decent lawyer.
This is a good argument, HBD, Aristocracy etc., but why does it defend Citizenship? Citizenship in a modern welfare state , is something very opposite to aristocracy. And HBD.
Why Dimitri, the professor, has , to americans, a lower value , in HBD sense, than certain minority of their citizens, whose lives matter? Or white single mothers who are super brave to get payments for beung single? Or gays who became old without progeny.
I think your idea and others here idea of aristocracy need a correction. The Bridge on the River Kwai could pehaps help. As an example. Theres one British Aristocrate, he is ready to stand torture to stay the aristocrate, but has no qualms at all at entering Japanese service as long as his personal dignity is kept. For aristocracy is a personal trait, not citizenship papers. For an aristocrate, other classes are scum.
So, abolishing citizenship may ehnance performance of the best people, by removing the artificial barriers. It will likely also improve morale by killing welfare state.
He's actually much worse than the "certain minority" of our citizens. He's a much more expensive parasite, and worse a pathogen--a peddler of malignant minoritarian lies.
America--because of the hard work and good character of people like my ancestors--was able to drag along the "legacy of slavery" boat anchor--imperfectly, but acceptably--and still be a terrific civilized Western nation through 1960.
Then we got "the professors", "the experts", the verbalist bullshitters ...Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
Raspail’s _Camp of the Saints_ isn’t all that speculative, any more.
Professor Dimitry Vladimirovich KochenovReplies: @Reg Cæsar, @Moses, @El Dato, @AnotherDad, @Jim Bob Lassiter
Hands out “As” for ass?
How is this disastrous in the slightest? It gets them more voters.
Are we still demanding that democrat (lol) officials be selfless angels who sacrifice their own well-being for the sake of the country?
If you can demand that of them, why wouldn’t they turn around and demand the exact same thing from you? Smells isomorphic to quis custodiet to me.
If every individual sacrifices for the country, who exactly is benefiting? Indeed, hasn’t America rather competently managed to achieve universal sacrifice and other repentance-like behaviour?
Why Dimitri, the professor, has , to americans, a lower value , in HBD sense, than certain minority of their citizens, whose lives matter? Or white single mothers who are super brave to get payments for beung single? Or gays who became old without progeny.
I think your idea and others here idea of aristocracy need a correction. The Bridge on the River Kwai could pehaps help. As an example. Theres one British Aristocrate, he is ready to stand torture to stay the aristocrate, but has no qualms at all at entering Japanese service as long as his personal dignity is kept. For aristocracy is a personal trait, not citizenship papers. For an aristocrate, other classes are scum.
So, abolishing citizenship may ehnance performance of the best people, by removing the artificial barriers. It will likely also improve morale by killing welfare state.Replies: @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad
It is not a defense of Citizenship, but merely what I hope is a more accurate explanation of Citizenship than one usually gets. Citizenship came in with era of mass armies as an expansion of the aristocratic franchise, and with that era now fading (due to nuclear weapons and surveillance technology?), the Citizenship concept lives on in an increasingly decadent way. The mismatch between concept and reality will lead to a break at some point—arguably is already leading to many breaks, but the full when and how is unclear.
Earlier than that, in Napoleonic wars, any aristocrate could join any army whatsoever, Russian, French, Austrian , etc. And even could switch sides during the brief periods of peace they had. So citizenship wasnt all that necessary.
Militarily, any conscript or pressed volounteer will do, as long as they have enough IQ to get trained. No one gets drafted willingly, but state can press anyone. And when you are in the army you have no choice but fight. So your reason of existence as a cannon fodder for the coming war with China is not as strong, any Ukrainian or Pole will probably do at least equally well. Why citizenship?Replies: @Almost Missouri
I think the missing ingredient between what Unit472 wrote and what you read in his comment is time.
The Era of Citizenship began (depending on location) approximately in the 18th century as relatively effective and relatively cheap muskets became the great leveler on the battlefield. The medieval bow and sword were bespoke, expensive tools of combat, requiring a lifetime of practice starting in childhood. This resulted in warrior castes, who could be fought against, but whose superior skill at arms was generally insurmountable by non-warriors. The musket, powerful enough to penetrate medieval armor, cheap enough to be afforded by any self-reliant worker, and simple enough to master without quitting your day job, changed all that. The side who could get more modestly-drilled musket-bearing men on the battlefield vis-à-vis the other side won. So how to get more musketmen? That became the basic recipe for democracy and citizenship.
So yes, medieval aristocrats notoriously switched sides all the time and drove whatever peasant levees they could lay hands on into battle before them in an unending quest for advantage in the continent-wide mafia competitions we know today as “medieval history”. But when musket balls are ending all that privilege before you can even get to close quarters, the equation shifts drastically. What commands the loyalty, organization and commitment of thousands—then tens of thousands, then hundreds of thousand, and eventually millions—of men who are not professional warriors but whose ability simply to carry a rifle, load a cannon, calculate a shell trajectory, or build an aircraft engine now determine who is victor and who is vanquished? The answer is Citizenship. By World War I, the British royal family—perhaps the ne plus ultra of aristocrats—famously renounced their name (House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha) in order to be more closely identified with their subjects (so now House of Windsor) rather than with the opponent side to whom they were actually more closely related.
The new Citizenship equation looked set to conquer the world, indeed, was conquering the world, until a new shift occurred on the morning of the first nuclear detonation. From that moment forward, a small coterie commanding moderate technical resources could will instant annihilation upon an enemy, and as technical advances proceeded, could do so from and to anywhere on earth. The American GIs who in 1945 (understandably) drunkenly celebrated that they would no longer have to be machinegunned on the beaches of the Rising Sun overlooked that the basic equation of their Citizenship had just been fatally fractured.
Put into crude economic terms, since the invention of musketry, labor had been gaining the upper hand over capital on the battlefield. You no longer needed expensive fitted armor and exquisitely trained horses to win. A bunch of capable men with gun tubes was enough. To be sure, the development of more and more sophisticated firearms, artillery, ships, tanks, and aircraft were restoring capital’s role, but only as the handmaid to the mass military. But today, the technical power of capital has developed so decisively, particularly in increasingly effective surveillance technology, that the mass army of labor—and the consent of the governed that went with it—is no longer necessary. Wealth, power and control are again available to medieval mafia competitors without the need to resort such archaic notions as representation, mass education, or exemplary virtue. Now that most of the population is no longer needed for mass conscript armies, much population is simply surplus, to be managed, its influence minimized, its interests neglected.
Exactly how the new equation will play out is still being determined. Much of the local commentary here could be said to be attempting to describe and even to influence that result.
Soviet Russia and China actually gjve good examples that the first reason prevails: there was very little of welfare in them, no democracy, but large standing armies.
Ok, now that there is a nuclear stalemate, and wars having reduced to botching vaccine batches for your dear allies, why Citizenship is that needed to Conservative US white men? So as to ensure they are intellectually led by stupid stupid CRT academics instead of prof Dimitri? So that their marraige pool is 300lbs honeybobos instead of skinny hungry moldavian ladies? So that they could proudly show their US passport at border control, to variety of uniformed subhumans? All berry good reasons.Replies: @Almost Missouri
And his professed prescriptions aren't idle warnings to us. Note that this tranny nonsense that engulfs Anglo-American life started out decades ago as the crazy musings of mentally unwell, lower-tiered faculty at mostly second-rate universities. Squash this dangerous idiocy now. What we should move on from is the status and privilege granted these hectoring panjandrums. Keep science and engineering and abolish all the worthless humanities and social science faculties in our universities.Replies: @Richard B
Great comment.
Better yet, place the Humanities under the Behavioral Sciences.
But, of course, the whole system would have to break down for that to happen. In any event, the problem isn’t the Humanities – it’s the Mediocrities – and what they did to the Humanities, and not just the Humanities, but to the Arts & Sciences.
Besides, the prestige of the sciences came from scientists who were mostly amateurs, like Darwin, and well-grounded in the arts.
The professionalization and specialization of science led to the production of technologists and contributed in the long run to the overall cultural impoverishment of the entire Western world.
The idea of reducing all of education to the STEMs is symptomatic of the problem of cultural impoverishment and in no way an answer to it.
-- Produces nothing of value.
-- Feeds on the host.
-- Weakens and destroys the host.
The modern nation state is the best organization we've come up with--community/tribe at scale.
But one of the problems with it has been diminution of the sort of "parasite policing" that traditional tribes/communities had to do. Where you kick out (or kill off) the parasites--criminals, crazy, lazy, uncooperative--who won't get with the program and pull their weight.
For the West to survive, the productive majorities in Western nations must organize and develop the will to expel (i'm by default, just a really nice guy)--or kill off if they won't leave--those people who feed on them and seek to weaken them.
~
Conservative\Republican propagandists and politicians really need to say "parasite". It is incredibly clarifying and will really get a rise out of the usual suspects.Replies: @Ben tillman, @Richard B
The best? Perhaps. But, unfortunately, not the most efficient.
The most efficient organization in world history is the Corporation, whether on moralistic grounds we like it or not. Why?
Because the corporation is the most effecient fusion of explanatory and hierarchical structure the world has ever known. When on top of that it became even more efficient an information-processing institution than the Government, as it did by the mid-20th century, it outmoded and transcended the Nation-State.
Just as the Nation-State transcended the Church, so too has the Corporation transcended the Nation-State.
Don’t get me wrong. I by no means regard the transcendence of the Nation-State as a necessarily progressive step. The corporation’s model is science. In fact, the corporation is the economic arm of science, and the fusion has been anything but an unmixed blessing. Especially now that both have been placed under the iron paw of a rigid and rabid political ideology.
The social damage this has done and continues to do is enormous, so enormous that it’s trivialized whatever of social value they may have produced. But here’s the kicker.
Since the the corporation and science have become the model of human history and both are now under the iron paw of an ideology that represents a full return to a kind of superstitious thinking in its most barbaric form, then one wonders if the history of man has been beneficial to man. But that is something we cannot know. Or, rather, to put it paradoxically, we will only know for sure when there are no human beings left to know it.
However, one thing is for sure. We certainly seem to be heading in that direction.
Or, as some of the more sharp-eyed observers might have put it in regard to the Publish-or-Perish epidemic. Who who says Publish must say Perish.
Seriously though, that’s what came to mind when reading this guy, ie; it’s why Publish-or-Perish was referred to as Publish-and-Perish and why it was a disaster.
Because not only did it force young people to publish something when they had nothing to say and knew it, it also encouraged pretentious, pseudo-intellectual mediocrities to publish something who had nothing to say and didn’t know it.
Case in point.
RE: The Norwegians also discredit libertarian theory that only individuals can own wealth, that democracies radically discount the future with their high time preferences, and that state central planning of the economy cannot possibly work, with the Norwegian government’s competently run sovereign wealth fund.
No. Said fund, like the Alaska Fund was created and catalyzed by Libertarians as proof-of-concept of funding of the commons and social insurances, including a basic income, by voluntary-direction endowments.
This sort of thing is actually a major Libertarian initiative, called by the Libertarian International Organization ‘Operation Dignity.’ This has been the case for decades.
I think he should take his message to the 4/5ths of the world which he regards as underprivileged and under-served. Here it is, translated;
“Your nation is a piece of shit. Because of that, you will never amount to anything more than a piece of shit yourself. There’s absolutely neither anything you can do, nor anything your countrymen can do, to alter your life trajectory. You will always be pieces of shit. But, if you come to my country, you can be more than a mere piece of shit. Get it? Now, Welkommen! Here, take my daughter as your wife and take my home. Make it your own. I will make do somehow. God! I feel good about myself. That was worth it!”
I’d like to watch the reaction of the people whose interests he pretends to represent while he offers up the first part. Once they hear the conclusion, of course, they won’t feel so offended. Rather than beating him up, they will gleefully shake his hand. And he will bask in the glow of the surprise and camaraderie of his new-found friends.
This post is basically a bright neon reminder that to fight these scum, HBD--asserting HBD--is critical.
People are different and quite naturally behave differently and produce different life outcomes. Groups of people are different--though thousands of years of gene-culture co-evolution and produce different sorts of societies.
Sure it is weird to run around asserting these fundamental truths which are utterly obvious and were commonly understood by everyone even 60 years ago when i was a kid. But the lies to install this minoritarian brain disease have been pushed so relentlessly, that now even the obvious must be spoken clearly, forcefully to make any political progress toward saving civilization.Replies: @AndrewR
Japan is indescribably nicer than almost any country inhabited by your beloved hhhwhite people, who allow other groups, specifically joggers, to rule the roost without any meaningful opposition. Official stats are probably impossible yo come by, but I imagine that the few thousand black American “servicemen” occupying Japan commit more crime than all the natives combined
West Euro white people are my people and i like--and prefer--the sort of places we create. Though as you note we are in a big failure mode right now in the simple department of "security" or "hygiene"--throwing out the scum and riffraff ... like this parasite "professor".
Japan i'm no expert in. (I've only been there once, decades back--seemed nice, well ordered. Statistics tend to bear out "very nice place".) My point in referencing Japan, was that this goes beyond just "white people create nice stuff". Other people like their stuff.
My point:
Everyone is entitled to build the sort of community and nation they like ... and then they have--contra parasite prof and other minoritarians--the right to enjoy it for themselves.Replies: @AndrewR
If so, his meager Wikipedia entry doesn’t mention it. Nor does he brag about it on his Twitter feed, as so many American Jews are wont to do (though Euro Jews are less performative that way).
So (((y’all))) might be in the clear on this one. Still, that hair makes one wonder.
OTOH, as Muggles points out, the sponsor of Prof. Dimitri’s schtick is arch-villain Soros. Sigh.
Soon they’ll replace all current passports with “health passes”, making sure you get the right jabs and your carbon output is optimal. There’ll be no more citizens, just serfs.
And thats a horrible thought. Because welfare state is what family values is about. Without welfare state, Those brave single mothers will starve. Those old childless gays will starve too.
How do they even live in Russia or China or Ukraine, without the wellfare state? Right?
Basically, this is a great idea: do away with your citizenship, together with the dole. Become a free man, live where you want, pay taxes and vote where you live. I have not found an argument against Dimitris logic anywhere in the comments except the fear for cherished Western wellfare state.Replies: @anon
“….Basically, this is a great idea: do away with your citizenship, together with the dole. Become a free man, live where you want, pay taxes and vote where you live….”
Hear Hear.
Until 1915, Passports to travel and residency permits didn’t exist expect for certain gov’t officials. Christ, until the 1920s – the border between the US/Canada and US/Mexico was non-existent as far as anyone could tell. The key is of course to eliminate all welfare.
Legitimate “freedom of movement” is the right to leave not the right to come.
My neighbor has the right to leave his house. He doesn’t have the right to come into mine.
I have the right to leave the US. But not the right to plop my white ass down in Japan. (The Japanese would be wise to keep me and all non-Japanese as “visitors only” and keep their patch for themselves.)
Denying someone the right to leave is making them a serf. (How i knew the Soviets/commies were the badies.)
But imposing yourself on other people who do not want you is making them a serf. Forcing yourself on them against their will–so you can get what you want from them.
That’s the heart of minoritarianism–the majority can not keep its community, its stuff, but must be open for minorities to use. The ideology of the rapist.
The Era of Citizenship began (depending on location) approximately in the 18th century as relatively effective and relatively cheap muskets became the great leveler on the battlefield. The medieval bow and sword were bespoke, expensive tools of combat, requiring a lifetime of practice starting in childhood. This resulted in warrior castes, who could be fought against, but whose superior skill at arms was generally insurmountable by non-warriors. The musket, powerful enough to penetrate medieval armor, cheap enough to be afforded by any self-reliant worker, and simple enough to master without quitting your day job, changed all that. The side who could get more modestly-drilled musket-bearing men on the battlefield vis-à-vis the other side won. So how to get more musketmen? That became the basic recipe for democracy and citizenship.
So yes, medieval aristocrats notoriously switched sides all the time and drove whatever peasant levees they could lay hands on into battle before them in an unending quest for advantage in the continent-wide mafia competitions we know today as "medieval history". But when musket balls are ending all that privilege before you can even get to close quarters, the equation shifts drastically. What commands the loyalty, organization and commitment of thousands—then tens of thousands, then hundreds of thousand, and eventually millions—of men who are not professional warriors but whose ability simply to carry a rifle, load a cannon, calculate a shell trajectory, or build an aircraft engine now determine who is victor and who is vanquished? The answer is Citizenship. By World War I, the British royal family—perhaps the ne plus ultra of aristocrats—famously renounced their name (House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha) in order to be more closely identified with their subjects (so now House of Windsor) rather than with the opponent side to whom they were actually more closely related.
The new Citizenship equation looked set to conquer the world, indeed, was conquering the world, until a new shift occurred on the morning of the first nuclear detonation. From that moment forward, a small coterie commanding moderate technical resources could will instant annihilation upon an enemy, and as technical advances proceeded, could do so from and to anywhere on earth. The American GIs who in 1945 (understandably) drunkenly celebrated that they would no longer have to be machinegunned on the beaches of the Rising Sun overlooked that the basic equation of their Citizenship had just been fatally fractured.
Put into crude economic terms, since the invention of musketry, labor had been gaining the upper hand over capital on the battlefield. You no longer needed expensive fitted armor and exquisitely trained horses to win. A bunch of capable men with gun tubes was enough. To be sure, the development of more and more sophisticated firearms, artillery, ships, tanks, and aircraft were restoring capital's role, but only as the handmaid to the mass military. But today, the technical power of capital has developed so decisively, particularly in increasingly effective surveillance technology, that the mass army of labor—and the consent of the governed that went with it—is no longer necessary. Wealth, power and control are again available to medieval mafia competitors without the need to resort such archaic notions as representation, mass education, or exemplary virtue. Now that most of the population is no longer needed for mass conscript armies, much population is simply surplus, to be managed, its influence minimized, its interests neglected.
Exactly how the new equation will play out is still being determined. Much of the local commentary here could be said to be attempting to describe and even to influence that result.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
Thanks for the detaileed reply, yes, I add the motivation as “preventing your conscrtipts to run” to the reason for the Citizenship. To the reason I mentioned, “not sharing your welfare with strangers”.
Soviet Russia and China actually gjve good examples that the first reason prevails: there was very little of welfare in them, no democracy, but large standing armies.
Ok, now that there is a nuclear stalemate, and wars having reduced to botching vaccine batches for your dear allies, why Citizenship is that needed to Conservative US white men? So as to ensure they are intellectually led by stupid stupid CRT academics instead of prof Dimitri? So that their marraige pool is 300lbs honeybobos instead of skinny hungry moldavian ladies? So that they could proudly show their US passport at border control, to variety of uniformed subhumans? All berry good reasons.
Nevertheless, both the USSR and China were sort of aware that they ought to be developing the Citizenship package, hence their peculiar mass cults of the "beneficence of the Party", and "Hero of the Soviet Union", and so on, that each one had, even if the actual welfare available was not so munificent as what was available to citizens in the West. Note that "welfare" isn't necessarily just a monthly cash payment. It also includes other benefits, such as education at public expense, a court system that will supposedly recognize your claim on an equal footing with anyone else, a safe and orderly society in which to live and breed, etc. In some of these things (e.g., state education, enforced equality) the USSR was arguably more generous than the USA.Conservative US white men have generally come from several centuries of a Citizenship tradition, and that tradition worked pretty well most of the time. This is what they want to Conserve. They don't want just to abandon what worked well for so long. I don't either. But for the reasons described before, we may not get a choice. And whether or not Citizenship will survive as part of the natural order, there are definitely factions working to undermine it as rapidly as possible.
By the way, is English your second language? You sometimes phrase things in unusual ways.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
My neighbor has the right to leave his house. He doesn't have the right to come into mine.
I have the right to leave the US. But not the right to plop my white ass down in Japan. (The Japanese would be wise to keep me and all non-Japanese as "visitors only" and keep their patch for themselves.)
Denying someone the right to leave is making them a serf. (How i knew the Soviets/commies were the badies.)
But imposing yourself on other people who do not want you is making them a serf. Forcing yourself on them against their will--so you can get what you want from them.
That's the heart of minoritarianism--the majority can not keep its community, its stuff, but must be open for minorities to use. The ideology of the rapist.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
Its both my friend. Try to leave a place without entering another place. Said A, say B.
Other people's stuff--their property, including the great communities and nations they create with their labor and good behavior--is not yours ... no matter how much you want to come and get your greedy little paws on it.
There is no "right to loot", however much that aggrieves minoritarian windbags.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
I will never forget the horror I felt the first time I contemplated the idea of a world with theology, philosophy, poetry, pure science, art... even if there remain pockets of homo sapiens about the place, it would amount to human extinction in the most important sense.
As for the abolition of citizenship, I have been saying for some time that civic nationalism is an untenable compromise, because if "skin color" is thin gruel, a piece of paper is even thinner.Replies: @Stan Adams, @ben tillman
Yeah, sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night screaming, “Theology sucks! Philosophy is useless! God spelled backward is dog! Dog spelled backward is god! Backward spelled backward is drawkcab! Nobody cares!”
There are 300 homicides in Japan every year. No they’re not being committed by American servicemen. Japan has extensive organized crime networks, which also do not include American servicemen.
Especially when a lot of the visitors come from a particular demographic: young, black and male.Replies: @Art Deco
When Country A has 126 million people with 300 annual homicides while Country B has 334 million people and 17,700 homicides, I can forgive someone for believing that visitors from B gave the locals in A a little help.
Especially when a lot of the visitors come from a particular demographic: young, black and male.
All of whom are screened for criminal history when they enlist.
See this:
https://www.stripes.com/news/despite-low-crime-rate-us-military-faces-no-win-situation-on-okinawa-1.411132
"The resolution, citing figures that Onaga also has used, also said SOFA-status personnel had committed 5,896 crimes since 1972. What it didn’t point out is that government figures show the rest of Okinawa’s populace has a crime rate more than twice as high over the same period — 69.7 crimes per 10,000 people, compared with 27.4 by SOFA members."Replies: @AndrewR
I just explained it very, very clearly. (None of which you have any answer for.)
Other people’s stuff–their property, including the great communities and nations they create with their labor and good behavior–is not yours … no matter how much you want to come and get your greedy little paws on it.
There is no “right to loot”, however much that aggrieves minoritarian windbags.
Now, it is also true that richer countries have aquired the historical wealth. It tends to come from the pre-welfare and pre citizenship times. Did Trump the granddad from Germany loot, or did he build the country? Should he have been excluded from coming back then?Replies: @Art Deco
Why Dimitri, the professor, has , to americans, a lower value , in HBD sense, than certain minority of their citizens, whose lives matter? Or white single mothers who are super brave to get payments for beung single? Or gays who became old without progeny.
I think your idea and others here idea of aristocracy need a correction. The Bridge on the River Kwai could pehaps help. As an example. Theres one British Aristocrate, he is ready to stand torture to stay the aristocrate, but has no qualms at all at entering Japanese service as long as his personal dignity is kept. For aristocracy is a personal trait, not citizenship papers. For an aristocrate, other classes are scum.
So, abolishing citizenship may ehnance performance of the best people, by removing the artificial barriers. It will likely also improve morale by killing welfare state.Replies: @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad
“professor”–LOL.
He’s actually much worse than the “certain minority” of our citizens. He’s a much more expensive parasite, and worse a pathogen–a peddler of malignant minoritarian lies.
America–because of the hard work and good character of people like my ancestors–was able to drag along the “legacy of slavery” boat anchor–imperfectly, but acceptably–and still be a terrific civilized Western nation through 1960.
Then we got “the professors”, “the experts”, the verbalist bullshitters …
Americans benefited hugely from free migration of Europeans during about secontd half of 19th and about first half of 20th centuries. Closing the US borders for everyone but Jews and Mexicans in 1960s basically did you in, folks.
I am not adovacating for any of "nation of immigrants " or "melting pot" nonsense. Just fact, on the HBd scale americans are about on par with Russians, i.e a rather dumb white people, and both nations historically had much to benefit when shit happened in Europe and higher class Europeans fled Europe to the periphery. Russian culture was mostly made by French emigrees. American, probably by AustriaHungarian Jews?
Smarter peoole arent necessary parasites. They could be, yes, but they also can be useful.
So hard work is ok, but IQ and (European) culture are also nice things. I do not see how welfare with closed borders could make Americans any smarter. And even the welfare isnt that great, relatively to the rest of the world, its no 1950s anymore.
Andrew–i’m not sure, but you may be confused about what i wrote. (I could be confused about that.)
West Euro white people are my people and i like–and prefer–the sort of places we create. Though as you note we are in a big failure mode right now in the simple department of “security” or “hygiene”–throwing out the scum and riffraff … like this parasite “professor”.
Japan i’m no expert in. (I’ve only been there once, decades back–seemed nice, well ordered. Statistics tend to bear out “very nice place”.) My point in referencing Japan, was that this goes beyond just “white people create nice stuff”. Other people like their stuff.
My point:
Everyone is entitled to build the sort of community and nation they like … and then they have–contra parasite prof and other minoritarians–the right to enjoy it for themselves.
Kochenov ignores this part of the bargain of ''citizenship'' even if it isn't always that severe though, over the course of a lifetime it usually will be to at least one member of a family ''endowed" with citizenship in a privileged country. It is this for this reason we need to stop treating being a holder of passport or residency in a nation as the equivalent of being a genuine ''citizen'' of a nation. Some Hindu or Muslim emigre with a US passport and residency permit for the United States is likely to want to get the ''hell out of Dodge" if the US gets in a shooting war with China. The oath of allegiance they took to the United States of America will not be honored as soon as a ''Greetings from the President'' letter arrives in their mailbox ordering them or their son to appear for induction into the American armed forces.
I actually have a lot more confidence in Latino and East Asian immigrants remaining loyal in such a crisis than Hindus, Muslims or even our own negroes. The latter have become accustomed to only being the beneficiaries of government programs and the former only showed up to enrich themselves.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @AnotherDad
Sure, but it is not “luck” in any normal sense of drawing a card from the deck.
There is no “me” that pops to life in Japan or Bangladesh or Nigeria. There is no “me” that is black or Mexican or Chinese. There is no “me” that is born crippled or blind or ugly or stupid. All those other people–maybe be wonderful people, or not–are not “me”.
There is only this “me”–born to my American midwestern parents. And so i inherit America–not those other folks. My ancestors worked to make their community nation, great and i inherit that.
There is nothing the least bit “unfair” about it. Even though there may be millions of people out there who are “better people” than i am, born in shittier nations. They needed to pick their parents more carefully. (Except then they would not be the people they are.)
~~
And it is ongoing–forever. My kids are inheriting an America that is not as nice as it should be because me, my parents, and our fellow Americans in our generation did not do a good job policing our joint. We didn’t confront and destroy the minoritarians as they spewed their toxic ideas and policies. That’s our failure … and my kids inherit that. They don’t have any claim on Japan or China or even Hungary or Poland or anywhere else where the people may be doing better on rejecting toxic ideas and practicing “demographic hygiene”.
Soviet Russia and China actually gjve good examples that the first reason prevails: there was very little of welfare in them, no democracy, but large standing armies.
Ok, now that there is a nuclear stalemate, and wars having reduced to botching vaccine batches for your dear allies, why Citizenship is that needed to Conservative US white men? So as to ensure they are intellectually led by stupid stupid CRT academics instead of prof Dimitri? So that their marraige pool is 300lbs honeybobos instead of skinny hungry moldavian ladies? So that they could proudly show their US passport at border control, to variety of uniformed subhumans? All berry good reasons.Replies: @Almost Missouri
Yes, they were still semi-medieval countries, so the Citizenship package had not developed as fully as in the West, though they are more caught up now, while the West is hollowing it’s package out. In the 20th century, the USSR and China both still had armed Commissars or other officials whose job was to make sure conscripts didn’t run away and that they pointed their weapons in the right direction: not so different from England’s medieval Shire Reeve (Sheriff) whose job included ensuring that the peasantry carried out their lord’s will.
Nevertheless, both the USSR and China were sort of aware that they ought to be developing the Citizenship package, hence their peculiar mass cults of the “beneficence of the Party”, and “Hero of the Soviet Union”, and so on, that each one had, even if the actual welfare available was not so munificent as what was available to citizens in the West. Note that “welfare” isn’t necessarily just a monthly cash payment. It also includes other benefits, such as education at public expense, a court system that will supposedly recognize your claim on an equal footing with anyone else, a safe and orderly society in which to live and breed, etc. In some of these things (e.g., state education, enforced equality) the USSR was arguably more generous than the USA.
Conservative US white men have generally come from several centuries of a Citizenship tradition, and that tradition worked pretty well most of the time. This is what they want to Conserve. They don’t want just to abandon what worked well for so long. I don’t either. But for the reasons described before, we may not get a choice. And whether or not Citizenship will survive as part of the natural order, there are definitely factions working to undermine it as rapidly as possible.
By the way, is English your second language? You sometimes phrase things in unusual ways.
Watch out, btw., you have the communism coming, and that on a better tecnology level.
Commissaries and KGB were what you call Title X HR , DEI officers, etc. And it was part of the citizenship package . Soviet folks were not subjects to any sovereign. They worshiped a civic religion, thats for sure, just like americans do now. Saint J.Floyd, the holy martir.
I do not know what you mean by Centuries of Citizenship in US. There wasnt any of that . Citizenship Dimitri talks about is not aboit Being good white boyscout. It is about borders and welfare. I thought just like all the countries in the West, US developed the unholy Citizenship thing during the Great War.Replies: @Almost Missouri
Especially when a lot of the visitors come from a particular demographic: young, black and male.Replies: @Art Deco
Especially when a lot of the visitors come from a particular demographic: young, black and male.
All of whom are screened for criminal history when they enlist.
See this:
https://www.stripes.com/news/despite-low-crime-rate-us-military-faces-no-win-situation-on-okinawa-1.411132
“The resolution, citing figures that Onaga also has used, also said SOFA-status personnel had committed 5,896 crimes since 1972. What it didn’t point out is that government figures show the rest of Okinawa’s populace has a crime rate more than twice as high over the same period — 69.7 crimes per 10,000 people, compared with 27.4 by SOFA members.”
All of whom are screened for criminal history when they enlist.
See this:
https://www.stripes.com/news/despite-low-crime-rate-us-military-faces-no-win-situation-on-okinawa-1.411132
"The resolution, citing figures that Onaga also has used, also said SOFA-status personnel had committed 5,896 crimes since 1972. What it didn’t point out is that government figures show the rest of Okinawa’s populace has a crime rate more than twice as high over the same period — 69.7 crimes per 10,000 people, compared with 27.4 by SOFA members."Replies: @AndrewR
Well, as a veteran, I can attest that the US military doesn’t screen hard enough, at least if the goal is to have a cohesive, competent fighting force able and willing to defend the real interests of Americans. But it’s safe to say that is not the goal.
West Euro white people are my people and i like--and prefer--the sort of places we create. Though as you note we are in a big failure mode right now in the simple department of "security" or "hygiene"--throwing out the scum and riffraff ... like this parasite "professor".
Japan i'm no expert in. (I've only been there once, decades back--seemed nice, well ordered. Statistics tend to bear out "very nice place".) My point in referencing Japan, was that this goes beyond just "white people create nice stuff". Other people like their stuff.
My point:
Everyone is entitled to build the sort of community and nation they like ... and then they have--contra parasite prof and other minoritarians--the right to enjoy it for themselves.Replies: @AndrewR
I am not Japanese and I don’t demand the right to live in Japan.
What I would like to do is point out that the Japanese have created a much nicer society than most Europoids have, circa 2021.
He's actually much worse than the "certain minority" of our citizens. He's a much more expensive parasite, and worse a pathogen--a peddler of malignant minoritarian lies.
America--because of the hard work and good character of people like my ancestors--was able to drag along the "legacy of slavery" boat anchor--imperfectly, but acceptably--and still be a terrific civilized Western nation through 1960.
Then we got "the professors", "the experts", the verbalist bullshitters ...Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
Ancestors: ever read HLMencken on them?
Americans benefited hugely from free migration of Europeans during about secontd half of 19th and about first half of 20th centuries. Closing the US borders for everyone but Jews and Mexicans in 1960s basically did you in, folks.
I am not adovacating for any of “nation of immigrants ” or “melting pot” nonsense. Just fact, on the HBd scale americans are about on par with Russians, i.e a rather dumb white people, and both nations historically had much to benefit when shit happened in Europe and higher class Europeans fled Europe to the periphery. Russian culture was mostly made by French emigrees. American, probably by AustriaHungarian Jews?
Smarter peoole arent necessary parasites. They could be, yes, but they also can be useful.
So hard work is ok, but IQ and (European) culture are also nice things. I do not see how welfare with closed borders could make Americans any smarter. And even the welfare isnt that great, relatively to the rest of the world, its no 1950s anymore.
Nevertheless, both the USSR and China were sort of aware that they ought to be developing the Citizenship package, hence their peculiar mass cults of the "beneficence of the Party", and "Hero of the Soviet Union", and so on, that each one had, even if the actual welfare available was not so munificent as what was available to citizens in the West. Note that "welfare" isn't necessarily just a monthly cash payment. It also includes other benefits, such as education at public expense, a court system that will supposedly recognize your claim on an equal footing with anyone else, a safe and orderly society in which to live and breed, etc. In some of these things (e.g., state education, enforced equality) the USSR was arguably more generous than the USA.Conservative US white men have generally come from several centuries of a Citizenship tradition, and that tradition worked pretty well most of the time. This is what they want to Conserve. They don't want just to abandon what worked well for so long. I don't either. But for the reasons described before, we may not get a choice. And whether or not Citizenship will survive as part of the natural order, there are definitely factions working to undermine it as rapidly as possible.
By the way, is English your second language? You sometimes phrase things in unusual ways.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
Semi medieval? Lol. No, the communis countries were and are most advanced and scientific societies. They tried to eradicate any tradition . Democracy, rather, is a medieval tradition, a premodern thing.
Watch out, btw., you have the communism coming, and that on a better tecnology level.
Commissaries and KGB were what you call Title X HR , DEI officers, etc. And it was part of the citizenship package . Soviet folks were not subjects to any sovereign. They worshiped a civic religion, thats for sure, just like americans do now. Saint J.Floyd, the holy martir.
I do not know what you mean by Centuries of Citizenship in US. There wasnt any of that . Citizenship Dimitri talks about is not aboit Being good white boyscout. It is about borders and welfare. I thought just like all the countries in the West, US developed the unholy Citizenship thing during the Great War.
They adopted "science" (Lysenkoism) in the same way that today's Westerners are adopting Scientism (woke science): a religion disguised as "science".On this we wholeheartedly agree. Indeed, as you observe, it is already arriving.Perhaps in the Soviet Union, but as I observed previously, they were trying to force things to make up for lost time. The US, by contrast, somehow managed to do Citizenship just fine for hundreds of years without commissars, KGB, HR witches, DIE officers, etc. Coincidentally, as these new intrusive bureaucrats are arriving, Citizenship is falling apart.Joseph Stalin may have disagreed. And with the power to enforce his will by summary execution, it is hard to dispute him.Traditionally, Americans worshipped real religions, like Christianity. Civic religionism in the US is a relatively new thing. Again, it is coincidental with Citizenship decaying. Those worshipping George Floyd as a holy martyr are the least American of Americans. Unfortunately, most of them do have citizenship papers, to our woe. But it demonstrates how there is more to real citizenship than just papers.Legally, US citizenship goes back at least to the Naturalization Act of 1790, and further back depending on particular states. And then the Declaration of Independence's premise was that the British Crown was not recognizing Americans' rights as citizens. The "Rights of Englishmen" claimed by the American settlers go back at least to the English Civil War, and arguably back to Magna Carta, with roots in Anglo-Saxon common law.
The Great War turned out to be the last hurrah of Citizenship, rather than its beginning. Welfare (in the sense of cash payments for existence) started just before that in the 1930s with the New Deal, which was probably the start of the "unholy" aspect.
I don't think this is uniquely an Anglo-US thing. French citizenship goes back over two centuries to the French Revolution. German citizenship goes back at least to Unification in 1870, and arguably much longer in the bürgerliche free towns. Dutch citizenship goes back at least to the Dutch Revolt (which is also a good example of the interplay of fielding more musketmen and the expansion of the citizenship franchise that I described earlier). Etc.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
Ok guys I got a Revelation, a Eureka moment.
I now understand why simple and logical proposition of Dimitri the Professor caused here such a Panic reacrion. And the answer is American Civic Religion.
See, Americans have a civic religion about as total as the Sharia folks from Gitmo have. If you tell a Sunni Moslem “why dont you aboulish Sharia Law”, he will likely hear “why dont everyone kill his brother and rape his sister?”, because in his terms, Law is total and universal.
Now, Citizenship seems to be about the same total and universal and fetish totem thing for Americans. Being Citizen means being A Good Moral Person, no less. There are “liberals” that invert the religion, and for them Citizen means something like late mr Floyd.
Now, Dimitri is an European and postSoviet at that. He have seen the fall and destruction of a similar civic religion, btw. I would guess :
For him this Religious thing of Goodness and Morals, and the Citizenship status are likely to be most orthogonal concepts. There is no relation for Dimitri between being Good Proper Boy and the colour of your passport. But there is a relation between the colour of your passport and the amount of shit subhuman border guards give you at this or that sacred border.
See?
Other people's stuff--their property, including the great communities and nations they create with their labor and good behavior--is not yours ... no matter how much you want to come and get your greedy little paws on it.
There is no "right to loot", however much that aggrieves minoritarian windbags.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
There is no right To Loot, absolutely. I mean, there is a perfect right to loot under the current regime of citizenship: you folks are being looted by your fellow citizens. Not by foreign intruders.
Now, it is also true that richer countries have aquired the historical wealth. It tends to come from the pre-welfare and pre citizenship times. Did Trump the granddad from Germany loot, or did he build the country? Should he have been excluded from coming back then?
Did Trump the granddad from Germany loot, or did he build the country? Should he have been excluded from coming back then? There was no reason to categorically exclude someone from the Bavarian Palatinate unless they were a known criminal or a known invalid. There is reason to turn the valve and reduce inflow from all loci.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
Minoritarianism--and globohomo--are a war against that. A war specifically against a nation's people being able to have their nation and live as they wish according to their national norms and culture.
You must be jammed cheek to jowl with ... whomever. You have no right to your community, your nation. You are just a serf.Replies: @ben tillman, @SafeNow, @Glaivester, @Ian M.
Freedom of association, if taken seriously as something ‘fundamental’, is a recipe for anarchy, a destroyer of communities. That’s why no nation on earth (at least if it wants to remain a nation) treats this as a fundamental right, and none ever has. Where it is recognized, it is within limited contexts and always constrained by other, more basic concerns. Which makes it less than fundamental.
It is easy to see how making freedom of association fundamental leads directly to the sort of dystopian citizenless world favored by Professor Kochenov and his ilk.
Kochenov wants to enslave the best humans and enforce dysgenics (which ultimately means extinction) on the entire human race. He is a nihilistic, genocidal psychopath.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @Rosie, @Ian M.
“Self-ownership” is false. It cannot be fundamental, because it presupposes a right to ownership in the first place, in which case the right to ownership is a more fundamental ‘freedom’. But self-ownership is typically used to justify a right to ownership, so then the whole thing becomes circular.
The thesis of self-ownership is typically used to justify the idea that any obligation not consented to is unjust, being a violation of self-ownership. But at the same time, advocates of self-ownership think that consent ought to be binding, yet this is not itself something consented to, and so ought to be regarded as a violation of self-ownership but isn’t. So the whole thing becomes an exercise in self-refutation or special pleading.
https://collapsetheblog.typepad.com/blog/2011/10/whence-rights-ii-libertarianism.html
A pox on libertarianism.
Watch out, btw., you have the communism coming, and that on a better tecnology level.
Commissaries and KGB were what you call Title X HR , DEI officers, etc. And it was part of the citizenship package . Soviet folks were not subjects to any sovereign. They worshiped a civic religion, thats for sure, just like americans do now. Saint J.Floyd, the holy martir.
I do not know what you mean by Centuries of Citizenship in US. There wasnt any of that . Citizenship Dimitri talks about is not aboit Being good white boyscout. It is about borders and welfare. I thought just like all the countries in the West, US developed the unholy Citizenship thing during the Great War.Replies: @Almost Missouri
in a superstitious (“medieval”) way.
They adopted “science” (Lysenkoism) in the same way that today’s Westerners are adopting Scientism (woke science): a religion disguised as “science”.
On this we wholeheartedly agree. Indeed, as you observe, it is already arriving.
Perhaps in the Soviet Union, but as I observed previously, they were trying to force things to make up for lost time. The US, by contrast, somehow managed to do Citizenship just fine for hundreds of years without commissars, KGB, HR witches, DIE officers, etc. Coincidentally, as these new intrusive bureaucrats are arriving, Citizenship is falling apart.
Joseph Stalin may have disagreed. And with the power to enforce his will by summary execution, it is hard to dispute him.
Traditionally, Americans worshipped real religions, like Christianity. Civic religionism in the US is a relatively new thing. Again, it is coincidental with Citizenship decaying. Those worshipping George Floyd as a holy martyr are the least American of Americans. Unfortunately, most of them do have citizenship papers, to our woe. But it demonstrates how there is more to real citizenship than just papers.
Legally, US citizenship goes back at least to the Naturalization Act of 1790, and further back depending on particular states. And then the Declaration of Independence’s premise was that the British Crown was not recognizing Americans’ rights as citizens. The “Rights of Englishmen” claimed by the American settlers go back at least to the English Civil War, and arguably back to Magna Carta, with roots in Anglo-Saxon common law.
The Great War turned out to be the last hurrah of Citizenship, rather than its beginning. Welfare (in the sense of cash payments for existence) started just before that in the 1930s with the New Deal, which was probably the start of the “unholy” aspect.
I don’t think this is uniquely an Anglo-US thing. French citizenship goes back over two centuries to the French Revolution. German citizenship goes back at least to Unification in 1870, and arguably much longer in the bürgerliche free towns. Dutch citizenship goes back at least to the Dutch Revolt (which is also a good example of the interplay of fielding more musketmen and the expansion of the citizenship franchise that I described earlier). Etc.
It indeed is mostly is driven by a late medieval religion. Cardinal Vigano even named it. Stalin ruled not as a tiran, but by a Committe, as the religion prescribed, just like the Founding Fathers did. Same with both Mao commies and KMT: they were both installed/initiated by comrade Borodin in 1920s. And the scientism (probably originally understood as a form of alchemy and astrology) is indeed a mark of this medieval religion.
Thats why Steve citation of Lenin, a General of that medieval religion is so highly appropriate: said A, must say B.
Which means, What is happening is there not despite the Founding Fathers, Constitution and other ____ ideals, but is a direct result and development of them. Hell, saint BenFranklin even died trying alchemical experiments with ligtning. (Lysenko didnt die this way but he tried to transmutate bio species).
As to "real" religions.. may be. We know that northern protestant christianity reports to the King, thats is a state, and Northamerican protestants are one and the same with , well, the Lenins medieval cult. Catholics seem to be split, southamerica was founded by the types of Miranda, Bolivar and Joze Marti and Fidel Castro and so there is the "theology of liberation". Which the current Pope said to adhere to. On the other hand there is CDF which seems to be staffed by german nazies that keep memory of the Accion Francais alive.Replies: @Almost Missouri
The link leads to another article! One on the effects of the vaccine on myocarditis incidence in Danes.
Now, it is also true that richer countries have aquired the historical wealth. It tends to come from the pre-welfare and pre citizenship times. Did Trump the granddad from Germany loot, or did he build the country? Should he have been excluded from coming back then?Replies: @Art Deco
It tends to come from the pre-welfare and pre citizenship times.
It doesn’t. Per capita product is 6x what it was in 1929.
Did Trump the granddad from Germany loot, or did he build the country? Should he have been excluded from coming back then?
There was no reason to categorically exclude someone from the Bavarian Palatinate unless they were a known criminal or a known invalid. There is reason to turn the valve and reduce inflow from all loci.
Now, if you accept the principle of judging the reasons, be prepared that eventually , for the judging buareocracy the weights will change and Wakanda replaces Bavaria as the preferred place.
And in practice, the process of the bureaucratic decision takes time and the trump elder must be on welfare while waiting. And the bureaucracy (god how to spell it , nasty frog words), is staffed by condolezzas that leaves elder trump in much disgust wrt his new country, so he support any woke crap just out of spite.
Great idea, works like a charm.Replies: @Art Deco
Welfare (in the sense of cash payments for existence) started just before that in the 1930s with the New Deal, which was probably the start of the “unholy” aspect.
Common provision is ancient. Some of the delivery modes change.
They adopted "science" (Lysenkoism) in the same way that today's Westerners are adopting Scientism (woke science): a religion disguised as "science".On this we wholeheartedly agree. Indeed, as you observe, it is already arriving.Perhaps in the Soviet Union, but as I observed previously, they were trying to force things to make up for lost time. The US, by contrast, somehow managed to do Citizenship just fine for hundreds of years without commissars, KGB, HR witches, DIE officers, etc. Coincidentally, as these new intrusive bureaucrats are arriving, Citizenship is falling apart.Joseph Stalin may have disagreed. And with the power to enforce his will by summary execution, it is hard to dispute him.Traditionally, Americans worshipped real religions, like Christianity. Civic religionism in the US is a relatively new thing. Again, it is coincidental with Citizenship decaying. Those worshipping George Floyd as a holy martyr are the least American of Americans. Unfortunately, most of them do have citizenship papers, to our woe. But it demonstrates how there is more to real citizenship than just papers.Legally, US citizenship goes back at least to the Naturalization Act of 1790, and further back depending on particular states. And then the Declaration of Independence's premise was that the British Crown was not recognizing Americans' rights as citizens. The "Rights of Englishmen" claimed by the American settlers go back at least to the English Civil War, and arguably back to Magna Carta, with roots in Anglo-Saxon common law.
The Great War turned out to be the last hurrah of Citizenship, rather than its beginning. Welfare (in the sense of cash payments for existence) started just before that in the 1930s with the New Deal, which was probably the start of the "unholy" aspect.
I don't think this is uniquely an Anglo-US thing. French citizenship goes back over two centuries to the French Revolution. German citizenship goes back at least to Unification in 1870, and arguably much longer in the bürgerliche free towns. Dutch citizenship goes back at least to the Dutch Revolt (which is also a good example of the interplay of fielding more musketmen and the expansion of the citizenship franchise that I described earlier). Etc.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
Yes, Id agree with most (except Stalin bit as we ll see shortly), but you guys are arguing about overloaded words. Dimitri surely was talking about citizenships liabilities to this and that local bureocracy, not about your thanksgivings turkeys and apple pies.
It indeed is mostly is driven by a late medieval religion. Cardinal Vigano even named it. Stalin ruled not as a tiran, but by a Committe, as the religion prescribed, just like the Founding Fathers did. Same with both Mao commies and KMT: they were both installed/initiated by comrade Borodin in 1920s. And the scientism (probably originally understood as a form of alchemy and astrology) is indeed a mark of this medieval religion.
Thats why Steve citation of Lenin, a General of that medieval religion is so highly appropriate: said A, must say B.
Which means, What is happening is there not despite the Founding Fathers, Constitution and other ____ ideals, but is a direct result and development of them. Hell, saint BenFranklin even died trying alchemical experiments with ligtning. (Lysenko didnt die this way but he tried to transmutate bio species).
As to “real” religions.. may be. We know that northern protestant christianity reports to the King, thats is a state, and Northamerican protestants are one and the same with , well, the Lenins medieval cult. Catholics seem to be split, southamerica was founded by the types of Miranda, Bolivar and Joze Marti and Fidel Castro and so there is the “theology of liberation”. Which the current Pope said to adhere to. On the other hand there is CDF which seems to be staffed by german nazies that keep memory of the Accion Francais alive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Wilhelm_Richmann
I don't think either one was doing alchemy, though. They both were just proving that clouds have electrical charges, which is still regarded as an accurate conclusion today.This strikes me as a caricature, but an amusing one nevertheless. The view from Ukraine?I've never heard of CDF before. Something in Luxembourg? Alsace?Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
Did Trump the granddad from Germany loot, or did he build the country? Should he have been excluded from coming back then? There was no reason to categorically exclude someone from the Bavarian Palatinate unless they were a known criminal or a known invalid. There is reason to turn the valve and reduce inflow from all loci.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
Human capital effects have a lag. Soviet immigration of 1970-1990s undid US by 2020, not earlier.
Now, if you accept the principle of judging the reasons, be prepared that eventually , for the judging buareocracy the weights will change and Wakanda replaces Bavaria as the preferred place.
And in practice, the process of the bureaucratic decision takes time and the trump elder must be on welfare while waiting. And the bureaucracy (god how to spell it , nasty frog words), is staffed by condolezzas that leaves elder trump in much disgust wrt his new country, so he support any woke crap just out of spite.
Great idea, works like a charm.
In your imagination only.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
Now, if you accept the principle of judging the reasons, be prepared that eventually , for the judging buareocracy the weights will change and Wakanda replaces Bavaria as the preferred place.
And in practice, the process of the bureaucratic decision takes time and the trump elder must be on welfare while waiting. And the bureaucracy (god how to spell it , nasty frog words), is staffed by condolezzas that leaves elder trump in much disgust wrt his new country, so he support any woke crap just out of spite.
Great idea, works like a charm.Replies: @Art Deco
Human capital effects have a lag. Soviet immigration of 1970-1990s undid US by 2020, not earlier.
In your imagination only.
It indeed is mostly is driven by a late medieval religion. Cardinal Vigano even named it. Stalin ruled not as a tiran, but by a Committe, as the religion prescribed, just like the Founding Fathers did. Same with both Mao commies and KMT: they were both installed/initiated by comrade Borodin in 1920s. And the scientism (probably originally understood as a form of alchemy and astrology) is indeed a mark of this medieval religion.
Thats why Steve citation of Lenin, a General of that medieval religion is so highly appropriate: said A, must say B.
Which means, What is happening is there not despite the Founding Fathers, Constitution and other ____ ideals, but is a direct result and development of them. Hell, saint BenFranklin even died trying alchemical experiments with ligtning. (Lysenko didnt die this way but he tried to transmutate bio species).
As to "real" religions.. may be. We know that northern protestant christianity reports to the King, thats is a state, and Northamerican protestants are one and the same with , well, the Lenins medieval cult. Catholics seem to be split, southamerica was founded by the types of Miranda, Bolivar and Joze Marti and Fidel Castro and so there is the "theology of liberation". Which the current Pope said to adhere to. On the other hand there is CDF which seems to be staffed by german nazies that keep memory of the Accion Francais alive.Replies: @Almost Missouri
Franklin died peacefully in his bed at age 84. Maybe you’re confusing him with this guy, a Russian subject?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Wilhelm_Richmann
I don’t think either one was doing alchemy, though. They both were just proving that clouds have electrical charges, which is still regarded as an accurate conclusion today.
This strikes me as a caricature, but an amusing one nevertheless. The view from Ukraine?
I’ve never heard of CDF before. Something in Luxembourg? Alsace?
I will never forget the horror I felt the first time I contemplated the idea of a world with theology, philosophy, poetry, pure science, art... even if there remain pockets of homo sapiens about the place, it would amount to human extinction in the most important sense.
As for the abolition of citizenship, I have been saying for some time that civic nationalism is an untenable compromise, because if "skin color" is thin gruel, a piece of paper is even thinner.Replies: @Stan Adams, @ben tillman
Yes, I agree completely.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_spending_as_percentage_of_GDPI don't know much about this sort of thing, but at first blush, it seems to me that state ownership of mineral rights is the only just possibility. I have always wondered by what moral right the government can assign the people's natural resources to private individuals.
An example that hits closer to home. How do land developers get the right to set up subdivisions that where you can't build a <2000 square foot house? Anybody know? There is a massive shortage of normal sized houses ("starter homes" in realtorese) that is only going to get worse with boomers downsizing and endless immigration.Replies: @Ben tillman, @Muggles
It’s federal law. You can’t exclude blacks because they’re black. You have to keep them out by making the houses too large and expensive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Wilhelm_Richmann
I don't think either one was doing alchemy, though. They both were just proving that clouds have electrical charges, which is still regarded as an accurate conclusion today.This strikes me as a caricature, but an amusing one nevertheless. The view from Ukraine?I've never heard of CDF before. Something in Luxembourg? Alsace?Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
CDF is Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith; the emeritus Pope come from it. The Inquisition.
Franklin and lightning, is a trope or may be canard. The point being, “real science” can be hard to come by. Just as “real christianity”.
May be there are some autistic science folks completely oblivious to the medieval coven dancing all around then , the autists doing objective research, and thats how any real science may happen, if the medieval folks permit it for their medieval reasons.
In your imagination only.Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum
Everything exists in my imagination. I imagine the article in Unz, about “Maxwell”. He has an interesting bio. Do you think he is unique? When you move more or less all the Ukrainian folks like Maxwell to US and make them your thinking class, surely they will assimilate and become flagwaving Citizens.
Simply by restricting immigration they’ve maintained their home-court advantage. Much else springs from that, if not all else that is.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_spending_as_percentage_of_GDPI don't know much about this sort of thing, but at first blush, it seems to me that state ownership of mineral rights is the only just possibility. I have always wondered by what moral right the government can assign the people's natural resources to private individuals.
An example that hits closer to home. How do land developers get the right to set up subdivisions that where you can't build a <2000 square foot house? Anybody know? There is a massive shortage of normal sized houses ("starter homes" in realtorese) that is only going to get worse with boomers downsizing and endless immigration.Replies: @Ben tillman, @Muggles
I hate to reply so late to a comment made about one of my posts.
You ask, ‘by what moral right’ and yet you load the question with a faulty premise.
What are “the people’s natural resources?”
The oil sitting under my Texas ranch (I wish)? In the USA, when you own land you usually own what is below (and sometimes air rights of some sort above). In many countries you don’t own the mineral rights. Seabed and underneath mineral rights are dictated by national law and international treaty.
There is a very old and elaborate system of property rights in America. That varies by nation. In places where property rights are more inclusive, you have more development of underground minerals. Mineral explorers lease property from owners to run seismic surveys or even drill exploratory wells. This is all done by contract.
These rights can be separately sold off of course.
As to your second point about developers limiting housing sizes, etc. this again comes with ownership. Developers have to first buy the property. They they add streets, sewers, lights, etc. and sell off lots to actual builders or in some cases, individuals.
They create initial restrictions to maximize the sale of lots to home builders who will buy bigger lots with more amenities. In some jurisdictions you have binding deed restrictions which limit how small or large homes can be, and other restrictions. In the US said restrictions originally about race were legally declared void due to civil rights law.
You ask some good questions but answers can be easily found. Most real estate agents know about this, as does any halfway decent lawyer.
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/08/04/PDTN/e69af215-c62d-46a5-83d9-12b34c5d90c5-Ghalib_Majewski_2up.jpg
Michigan city gets ready to inaugurate all-Muslim governmentHamtramck was once heavily Polish. One of the councilors is a Polish convert.Replies: @Mr. Anon, @Ian Smith
On the left: a trying-to-let-a-curry-fart out discretely wince?