As Ted Williams pointed out about Shoeless Joe Jackson, Pete Rose was banned from baseball over gambling for life, not eternity.
So, elect Rose to the Hall of Fame now.
A favorite Pete Rose play: 9th inning of the final game of the 1980 World Series:
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Pete Rose?
Far more important was the recent death of John Ashton, part of the BHC trio. He was Sgt. Taggart.
Remember that Axel Foley played the race card to get a cheaper hotel room at the Beverly Palms Hotel :
Video Link
But he did it for a higher purpose, which was to avenge the death of his white friend, Mikey Tandino, and also later saved the life of his other friend, Jenny Summers :
Hence, this film was an important chapter in the brief, post-racial zeitgeist that we enjoyed in the mid-1980s. Even in the second film, Axel moves mountains to get justice for another white friend, Captain Andrew Bogomil, who became his friend at the end of the first film.
Now, 40 years later, Axel is back with Taggart and Rosewood in Beverly Hills to crack another case, in a long-awaited fourth installment in the film series. He is there to rescue another white friend. This time, Billy Rosewood.
Video Link
The Heat is……ON!!
Hell, Kris Kristofferson is also more important than Pete Rose.
RIP Charlie Hustle
er…..Pete Rose was inducted into the Hall of Fame way back in 2004, in the same year as notables like Jesse Ventura (former Governor of Minnesota), Harley Race, Superstar Billy Graham, Bobby Heenan Sgt. Slaughter, and Tito Santana.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Hall_of_Fame_(2004)
Part of this was because Randy Savage was mentioning Pete Rose as far back as 1989 (see 8:15) :
Video Link
That was by far the greatest accolade Pete Rose could have received in any capacity.
Oh…..Steve meant the Baseball Hall of Fame. Well, that is boring…..
Video Link
I sort of think that was his punishment – they were going to wait for him to die in order to put him in the Hall.
Joe Morgan was working on thawing the relationship when he passed away himself.
One of the all time greats.
He helped to define the 1960’s-early 1980’s era of MLB.
Amen
“Shoeless Joe Jackson, Pete Rose was banned from baseball over gambling for life, not eternity.”
No, it’s for eternity. Joe Jackson still hasn’t been elected to Cooperstown.
So, elect Rose to the Hall of Fame now.
Then by the same token, Joe Jackson also deserves to go into the HOF. Unlike Pete, Joe Jackson was cleared by a Grand Jury and never directly publicly admitted to gambling. Also, as an illiterate, it could be safely stated that some of the gambling on the 1919 WS was unbeknownst to him. He was more of a victim and a pawn.
Can’t really state as much for Pete Rose, who gambled on MLB games for a few decades, including vs his own team while managing CIN.
If Pete goes in, then you have to induct Joe Jackson as well, Steve. If Joe stays out, then Pete has to stay out of the HOF as well.
RIP Charlie Hustle.
In other news, it appears that World War III has begun.
Absolutely
OT — Sometimes it’s useful to file away an anonymous claim. There are people who claim that the US has huge lithium reserves, but would rather that the third world be the source, because lithium mining is pretty much the most destructive form of mining.
There’s proper lithium mines up and running in Nevada and Arizona; there are deposits in beautiful Maine but Maine has banned mining (for now), and there may be plenty of lithium in Arkansas. My first thought reading this was ah yes, the storied lithium veins of Tennessee, but actually we do have deposits all over, we would just need to be willing to totally wreck the surrounding countryside …
If Pete Rose can continue to be excluded from the Hall of Fame ballot, former commissioner Bud Selig should be expelled from the Hall. In a contradiction of ethics, Selig’s decade of inaction with his knowledge of widespread steroid use caused questioning of the integrity of on-field performance more than did Rose’s actions. Anyone watching Pete play baseball could never question his drive to excel and win. His gambling was a poorly kept secret within MLB since the ’70s but I’ve never seen published any mention of doubt concerning his drive. Nevertheless, Selig’s HoF plaque reads “PRESIDED OVER AN ERA OF VAST CHANGE… “.
I bet it never happens. It would be another contradiction – with the fine print disclaimer of MLB corporate sponsor Bet365, “Call this number if you have a gambling problem”.
By poetic coincidence, the Rose issue breaks into the news just as Ohtani completes his most amazing season, which season reminds us that he is, and was, a too-big-to-fail kind of guy. Hall of Fame rules are flexible in that they are subject to taking a common-sense look at circumstances outside of the actual Hall rules. (Clemente’s case, for example.) Pete Rose should have been inducted into the Hall, not posthumously, but while he was still alive, and it was evident that Ohtani was having historical seasons, and, had been given a pass. Okay, better late than never, but The Hall should admit they have been wrong on this for a few years now.
Put in a wing at the BHOF lionizing the PED cheaters and the gamblers.
Kris Kristofferson and Pete Rose.
Who will be number 3?
He was part of the “Big Red Machine” . Too MAGA
Well said.
I’m with Ted Williams.
Two video moments that capture the good and bad of Pete Rose:
1. Played baseball the right way. Backed up a foul ball at a clutch moment (9th inning one out in Game 6, KC had the bases loaded) in the World Series. Seems like nothing, but teams have cracked because of miscues like Boone’s many time in the post season. As it was, Phils won their first WS a few minutes later.
Video Link
2. Mean spirited ass. Gets invited back to a Phillies alumni weekend a few years back, and purposely tells an off-color story to embarrass baseball. (I found it hilarious, but still…)
Video Link
Were Joe’s feet frozen, like Ted’s head?
Nope. Gotta shoot a hostage some times.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pour_encourager_les_autres
Don’t be a soft modernist.
Selig belongs in the Football Hall of Fame. For arranging, albeit indirectly, for the Packers to play all their home games in Green Bay.
Well, okay, there was that recent one in São Paulo… but the Eagles were the “host” there. Philadelphia, Corinthians, Saint Paul. So apostolic. It all connects.
“Were Joe’s feet frozen, like Ted’s head?”
Uh, no, they were just made of clay.
Say it ain’t so, PETE!
(and Joe as well)
Also elect Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens.
OJ Simpson? We all know he did it. Still in Football HOF
Carlos Monzon murdered girlfriend. Didn’t keep him out IBHOF
And I think Kobe Bryant was guilty.
Rose looks like Mother Teresa compared to these three.
Either they both go in, or they both have to stay out.
Noticing.
For all his 4,256 career H’s, Rose really was just a singles hitter. Rose has about 600 fewer career RBI’s than Ty Cobb (Rose was really a punch and judy hitter). Rose never had a single season of 100+ RBI’s.
Rose also has about 700 fewer career SB’s than Cobb. All those H’s and he didn’t do much but stay put on 1B, apparently (or 2B since he did hit some doubles).
Babe Ruth has 136 career triples to Rose’s 135 career triples.
Betcha wouldn’t have guessed that Babe Ruth had that many career triples, and more career triples than Rose.
During his career, Ruth also had 3 seasons of 200+ H’s, and two other seasons with 199 and 192 H’s. And that is quite respectable, especially since Babe’s career BA is .342.
And, believe it or not, Lou Gehrig had 8 seasons with 200+ H’s in a single season (and one season with 198 H’s). That’s not shabby, career BA of .340.
For those who prefer Ted Williams, with that vaunted .406 BA in ’41, six batting titles, and .344 career BA, how many seasons did Ted have 200+ H’s in a season??
Answer: NONE
Ted Williams also had 71 career triples (to be put in a proper context, when compared to Ruth’s 136, and Gehrig’s 163 career triples)
For the most part, triples are a very strong indication of a player’s overall speed around the bases, whether or not said player can hit the ball far enough in the OF so that he can leg it around the bases to 3B.
I’m thinking that Ted Williams wasn’t a very fast baserunner, especially as he only had a piddling 24 career SB’s for his career. As opposed to Gehrig, who could hit for power, average, could run, and field. (1Bmen aren’t really called on to throw much so that part would be a wash).
Basically when comes down to it, Teddy Ballgame was a great 2 Tool Player (hit for average, hit for power; but couldn’t run, barely could field, and couldn’t throw).
Rose could hit…for singles (and some doubles). And was a pretty good fielder as he won 2 Gold Gloves.
I brought up Rose’s lack of SB for a specific reason, and it’s quite relevant, as Pete’s entire career was during the resurgence of the SB as an offensive weapon, where Brock, Wills, and Henderson stole over 100 SB in a single season while Rose was at his peak as a player. Also, his own teammate Joe Morgan stole over 50 and 60 bases in a season.
For someone who is widely acknowledged to be MLB’s all time greatest singles hitter, Rose certainly didn’t seem to do much once he reached first base (or second). Just stayed put, and didn’t seem to occur to him to…actually attempt to steal some bases.
Ty Cobb would’ve castigated him most severely over this oversight or lack of attention to detail/in game strategy.
RIP Mr. Rose.
As the joke goes, even though he’s six feet under, Pete still bet the over.
More likely than not Rose threw games or shaved runs, but MLB kept that part quiet to avoid another Black Sox-like scandal.
In other sad news, major port strike on the East Coast hit tonight at midnight EST. Could cause some shortages/runs/higher prices if COVID-like panic sets in or if it drags on. Best to stock up Tuesday early if you can. And definitely keep your gas tank topped up.
Video Link
Kris Kristofferson also just passed away. I always just knew him as a country singer and actor. But looking at his obit, I was surprised to find out he was a highly accomplished man: he had a couple stories published in the Atlantic Monthly when he was 18, he was a Rhodes scholar, a captain in the army and a helicopter pilot, and a song-writer (he wrote “Sunday Morning” which was a big hit for Johnny Cash), as well as a singer and actor.
And I thought he was merely the star of Convoy.
Not sure “Pete” and “peace” really go together.
But I definitely don’t like seeing these young guys dying off. It used to be only old people died off–except for traffic accidents and casualties of war. Pete Rose was in his youthful heyday when I was a kid growing up in Cincinnati in the 60s. So I know he’s not an old guy. But since my parents died, I’ve noticed younger and younger people kicking off. I’m not liking it.
Steve Sailer is an activist for many causes, including this one.
It’s just the destruction of white people he finds boring. Like a Black woman, he finds the topic sooooo exhausting.
Pete ran to first after ball four faster than many players do after hitting a grounder, which makes them look stupid after the ball gets bobbled or booted, but still results in a put-out. They even loaf during a World Series or wear a mike and jibber-jabber for TV while playing, making a mockery of the game.
RIP, Pete, in the Heavenly Hall, where I trust Willie will give you a “say-hey.”
Hell’s newest resident Pete Rose is already in the Asswipe Hall of Fame for his career-damaging cheap shot on Indians catcher Ray Fosse in the 1970 All Star Game. Fosse would have made the Baseball HoF if not for Rose. He was as good or better than Johnny Bench.
Karma-1
Asshole with a Moe haircut-0
What used to be called the Veterans Committee now meets on a three-year cycle, but fortunately for Pete’s candidacy the pre-1980 ballot will be voted on this December. If he manages to get elected, he will be inducted in July with Ichiro, which is a hell of a coincidence.
Jimmy Carter? Joe Biden? Donald Trump? Diddy?
“Three reasons why Pete Rose, RIP, must be inducted into the baseball hall of fame”
https://nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.com/2024/09/three-reasons-why-pete-rose-rip-must-be.html
Dikembe Mutombo
Kind of an eclectic trio, for sure.
Joe Jackson admitted guilt, plus they welshed on paying him.
It’s just bad luck, evidence seemed to point to Cobb and Speaker throwing a World Series before 1919.
But, if they admit Rose, what about Carl Mays?
He played to win, they still won’t ket him in.
I was more saddened by the death of Dikembe Mutombo, who pretty much everyone would agree was a truly first class human being all the way.
Tough week for famous people; but I suspect that there is a precisely zero percent chance Rose will ever enter the HOF -he gambled on games, and he never played for the Yankees.
Well, he did eat a lot of red meat.
My favourite Charlie Hustle moment was when he would have nothing of an intentional walk, so he jumped over the plate to hit an intentional ball into a homer, which was, of course, disallowed, but great baseball nonetheless.
I appreciated the new Beverly Hills Cop movie for not making Axel’s daughter an obnoxious BLM crusader, even though her character seemed primed to go in that direction.
Indeed the film implies that whatever BLM-esque anti-cop attitudes she may have held were due to resentment of her neglectful (black) cop father.
Agreed! And include the bad stuff. Let it all hang out. They don’t elect saints, right?
Bingo!!
Dikembe Mutombo, legendary shot blocking 7-foot-3-inch basketball center, has died. He makes the third death along with Kristofferson and Rose.
My mom always said, “deaths come in threes.” It’s almost as if God is trying to tell us something.
I listened to Top 40 radio is 1970-1971, and Kris Kristofferson’s top 4 songs were clearly awesomely better than almost anybody else’s even to my adolescent ears:
Thanks….. and another thing…. Pete’s All-Star game collision with Ray Fosse. It’s a terrible thing that it messed up Fosse’s career. I remember even now reading in The Sporting News that spring about the season the great young Indians catcher was having. Pete didn’t draw a target on Fosse though, it happened before you could type “target”.
At the time the All-Star game was a big game between serious rivals, not a pageant to sell advertising. Pete was bound to win it.
I was a catcher for 15 years from Little league through high school and adult summer leagues. The most fun I’ve ever had. There must have been a dozen collisions at the plate, the memorable one, Senior Year ’77, a guy named Ed clobbered me, drove me past the umpire. Ed helped me up, said, Sorry, you okay? Yeah, thanks. I held onto the ball…. wearing Pete’s 14.
All that said, the rule against blocking the plate is a good one. Along with the pitch clock, the only good rules of the new game.
Mutombo’s an interesting case. In 2021, his Facebook page was devoted to pushing the Covid vaccine. I mean, to a truly weird and creepy extent. In October 2022, he was diagnosed with brain cancer. Was this a case of “turbo cancer” that Snopes and factcheck.org and USA Today in conjunction with our Pravda-like search engines have assured us is a right-wing conspiracy theory? We’ll never know and to even bring this up makes you a very bad person.
You mean “5”?
Ray Price and “For the Good Times”.
Rose led the National League when it was at its peak in runs scored four times. Perhaps getting on base 300 times per year and hitting 40 doubles per year (he was second all time in career doubles).
Wow, Pete Rose wasn’t as awesome of a hitter as Babe Ruth!!!
Who knew?
Rose wasn’t an awesome hitter, but kept getting better as he got older, winning his MVP at age 32 in 1973 and remaining an interesting, innovative hitter who won five doubles titles from age 33 to 39.
What evidence is this? Cobb seems like the least likely person to throw a game, ever.
While it’s obviously unethical for anyone associated with a sports franchise to bet on their own sport, it’s pretty gross how much gambling is promoted in the culture at large. You basically have sports commentators who constantly talk about it, a variety of apps that have sprung up to facilitate betting, and you even have colleges and universities entering into deals to facilitate gambling with their students: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/20/business/caesars-sports-betting-universities-colleges.html
I don’t have any great ideas off the top of my head how you can balance personal freedom and try to protect people from themselves, but it would be interesting to see some analysis of what estimated annual gambling losses are and any associated demographic information. I personally think state-sponsored lotteries should be illegal. All this stuff has a strong bread and circuses vibe, although with the added benefit that it transfers even more money away from the plebes to elites.
He should be admitted now that he’s dead. Prior to that, no.
Rule 21(d) is posted in every minor league and major league clubhouse. I realize Rose wasn’t very bright, but I’ve never read that he was illiterate. See below. Emphasis mine
The “Rose belongs in the HOF” crowd ignores the fact he accepted the lifetime ban, and they ignore rule 21(d). Note that Rule 21 does not include the words “unless they had a bunch of hits” or “unless they were nicknamed Charlie Hustle”.
Rule 21
(d) GAMBLING.
(1) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform, shall be declared ineligible for one year.
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared permanently ineligible.
(3) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee who places bets with illegal book makers, or agents for illegal book makers, shall be subject to such penalty as the Commissioner deems appropriate in light of the facts and circumstances of the conduct. Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee who operates or works for an illegal bookmaking business shall be subject to a minimum of a one-year suspension by the Commissioner. For purposes of this provision, an illegal bookmaker is an individual who accepts, places or handles wagers on sporting events from members of the public as part of a gaming operation that is unlawful in the jurisdiction in which the bets are accepted.
He was 83. Not what I’d call young.
Williams never gained 200 hits because he walked at a greater rate than even Ruth did. Williams hit in the worst ballpark for left-handed pull hitters, Ruth in the best. Ruth hit in better liineups, with Gerhig hitting behind him. Williams lost five prime years to war. Hitting wise, Williams was the equal of Ruth but it was Ruth alone who single-handedly changed baseball, and who was also a great pitcher.
Williams would have been better suited as a first baseman. Ruth spent many years as a fat outfielder, and one wonders what his defensive runs saved would look like today.
I was just telling anonymous on an unnameable Chaldean bowl-observing forum that we don’t really have celebrities any more, and my illustration was that character actor who played the corrupt police chief in the Godfather. Away from Hollywood he was a master sailor who went on missions for the OSS.
when i lived in Vegas between 02 and 06, he was there too, and would make regular appearances at casinos and malls, signing autographs for free. he looked to be in good shape for his age.
he was also dating this gorgeous, total knockout korean model half his age, which i would have to guess was based on his baseball fame. wonder what happened with her and her kids.
Pete devoted his career to hunting Cobb’s hit record somewhere around 1979. He turned into Manny Mota, a singles slapper with a godawful secondary average and no speed. Interestingly, the Phils seemed to tire of this selfish pursuit in 1983, despite his .300 batting average in the post-season (one extra-base hit, the rest singles). Now, I have no problem with Pete trying to reach 4,192 hits but at the end of the day did his presence help the team? You simply can’t afford to have a slap hitter as your first baseman.
Why? He was still in the batter’s box, wasn’t he? Just the other one, which he used all the time anyway.
Let’s not ignore the rare achievement of setting records while batting from both sides ofthe plate. For those precious few, place a rose on the mantel.
Or similar rules about playing DH, or pitching in the DH era. Those people should get half a plaque. Ohtani, ¾.
Burleigh Grimes got in doing what was illegal for everyone else but him. That disclaimer word in the subtitle of his biography was from his own constantly correcting people:
It’s probably still being thrown.
In NYT obit Rose is quoted as saying he never bet against his own team. Is the evidence of his doing so solid? It seems to me there’s a vast difference between betting on your own and betting against them.
OT: WW3 has started?
https://www.cnn.com/
“Wow, Pete Rose wasn’t as awesome of a hitter as Babe Ruth!!!
Who knew?”
In many ways, Ty Cobb was as awesome a hitter as Babe Ruth. When it’s properly broken down, analyzed, Ty Cobb’s 4,100+ H’s contained lots of triples and doubles, and he had over 1,900 career RBI’s. Cobb wasn’t a punch and judy hitter.
I think I knew, but I decided to notice and make sure.
Ty Cobb hit .401 in 1922, when he was 35 (36th yr). In 1925, when he was 38, he hit 5 HR’s in either two games or a double header. It’s a legendary series where he was fed up with Ruth getting all the attention, and so he told the press that for the first time in his career, he was going to try to hit HR’s. And he did. Supposedly not even Babe Ruth did that (hit 5 HR’s in a two game series).
Cobb did about as much as Rose during same age span (except of course, he hit for higher BA average and he had two seasons of 100+ RBI’s).
Doubles. Cobb also continued to hit doubles in his mid to late 30’s at roughly about same pace as Rose. He also hit double digit triples per season a few times (Cobb has 295 career triples, or over twice the amount of triples as Rose). Cobb also continued having a few yrs of double digit SB’s per season, including a few steals of home (something Rose didn’t do very often).
Rose belongs in the HOF, but probably won’t go in (at least any time soon) but Cobb was better overall at the plate in almost every single way.
During the ’20’s the ballparks were nearly all concrete and steel, and the OF’s were more or less symmetrical, so a mid to late 30’s player hitting double digit triples in a season is not too shabby.
This was brought up due to making sure that Cobb wasn’t a basic singles hitter, and he wasn’t.
Always liked Ty Cobb; actually going through and examining more of his offensive stats now I really respect what he did at the plate. Unlike Rose, Ty Cobb could really run.
this radio interview is from the early ’30’s, just a few yrs after Cobb’s retirement.
All four commissioners of the major North American sports leagues should have bowed down to Pete Rose publicly and placed him in the hall of fame last year.
Why, you may ask? Because all of the leagues have official partnerships with multiple sports betting companies. You cannot watch any sporting event without ads for gambling including actual live odds presented on commercial breaks. All of the leagues make millions upon millions from gambling companies.
If Pete Rose had been banned for marijuana use he would have been reinstated a decade ago.
Convoy was the third Peckinpah film Kristofferson was in. The other two being the immortal Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia and Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid which, when viewed in the Turner cut, is Bloody Sam’s finest film.
Kristofferson’s skill as a song writer was featured in John Huston’s melancholy Fat City, one of the best American boxing films. Sunday Morning Coming Down and Help Me Make It through the Night.
And the circus continues.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/newsom-outlaws-voter-id-rules-california
“…evidence seemed to point to Cobb and Speaker throwing a World Series before 1919.”
Huh? Which WS? Citations?
The year Minnesotans approved a lottery in a referendum, I spent Election Night at a bar with the local Libertarian Party. When the result was anounced, all but two of us cheered. We booed, and got funny looks. The other guy just told them he didn’t want to see yet another state agency created. I’d add, especially one bent on corrupting people’s morals.
Here’s something to bet on: who will go first, Joe or Jimmy? Anyone seen odds on this?
100% off topic but pretty iStevey – for the last few years, Boris and Sunak presided over YUGE immigration into the UK, much of it African. I see and hear Francophone Africans, previously unknown, all over my bit of Middle England. Can’t miss’em because the women are quite loud.
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So obviously, these Africans are enriching our society in countless ways – but there’s one way that can be counted.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13911873/Alarm-HIV-soars-heterosexual-Brits-just-one-year.html
Who could possibly have foreseen that?
It’s a mystery, I tell you ! Experts are baffled!
stevebot9000: i can have surgery to change the shape of my head you low IQ transphobes!
sad.
When I was in high school as part of some “invite a local business” type of talk a representative of the state lottery came to the class to talk about how it works, how much money it raises, which games have the best odds, which games are most popular/available in what neighborhoods, etc. It became obvious from his data that the low cost and low return games were the most popular in terms of sales in poor neighborhoods. When I asked him if that product placement was deliberate he refused to answer and at the end didn’t give me the little goodie bag everyone else got.
John Amos, of Good Times and West Wing fame, just transitioned.
Good points. I’m playing a bit the devil’s advocate but if Pete Rose was a black man, would he have been banned from the baseball hall of fame?
Definitely crass and not all that likable but a warrior and a champion. I never liked him but Steve makes a good case for him to be in the HOF.
Kris Kristofferson’s big innovation as a songwriter was that he used “Lord” as a useless filler syllable instead of “yeah,” “baby,” “now,” and “you know.”
Joe Walsh or Jimmy Page?
I believe AD is being tongue-in-cheek, like how did the print on everything get so small and who are all those old people in the class reunion photos. Also Scarlet O’Hara sure does have exquisite sensibilities
everybody knows it was Kris Kristofferson who was a vampire hunter, not Abraham Lincoln.
fake history made up by Hollywood:
the actual story of how vampires were eliminated long ago:
“Pete Rose was banned from baseball over gambling for life, not eternity.”
Every fifth commercial on televised sportsball encourages black men to gamble. Even sportsball commentarders openly discuss and celebrate sports gambling. O the irony. I remember way back when like 2013 when sports commentarders weren’t permitted to mention the spread. Good ol daze. O the irony. But then, as the covidhoax proved for all eternity, 98% of people are brainless imbeciles.
And coming in just after the wire is John Amos (84) who was best known as the father in Good Times but was also the king in Coming to America as well as the adult Kunta Kinte in Roots.
All sports should be strictly amateur and adjacent to actual adult, civilization-building activities. But that genie escaped the bottle long ago. I’ve got friends who are probably still crying in bed over the Georgia-Alabama game.
Pete Rose was a lifetime .303 hitter. It turns out that he hit .303 on grass, on artificial turf, at night, and during the day, which is remarkably consistent. He also hit .303 in the month of June.
If Pete ended his career with another 133 hitless at bats, he still would have been a .300 hitter for his career.
John Amos died over a month ago and James Earl Jones was the king in Coming to America. John Amos was the hilariously deadpan owner of McDowell’s in Coming to America. I hit the floor laughing every time I see that scene where he painstakingly distinguishes his “Big Mick” from the McDonald’s Big Mac.
Also the star of Heaven’s Gate, a movie I like quite a bit, that went over budget and got panned by critics. The movie is said to have ruined director Michael Cimino’s career which is an unfortunate outcome IMHO. I’m not Eastern European but I like that Eastern European immigrants played a significant role in the story.
Mutombo averaged 4 blocks per game a few seasons in the 90s. probably one of the last players to do that. looking up his career numbers, i didn’t realize he played all the way to 2009. he even appeared in a playoff game in 2009? whoa.
the vaccine to cancer pipeline is pretty well documented by now unfortunately. had no idea he was a major vaxxer. also no idea if his brain cancer was related. but that kind of coincidence happens often now, several years after the vax craze.
the journalist who was most annoying about Aaron Rodgers not getting vaxxed during the scamdemic, died this year at 43…probably from the vaccines he took.
Journalist Who Criticized Aaron Rodgers for His Views on COVID-19 Vaccines ‘Dies Unexpectedly’ at 43
That’s just the adaptation to fit more brain in ! Any Victorian gentleman scientist knows that ! Haven’t you got a set of calipers ?
“Williams never gained 200 hits because he walked at a greater rate than even Ruth did.”
Williams wasn’t a very fast baserunner either. Ruth had the single season record for the most walks, (173 in 1923) which Bonds broke in 2001.
Ruth also had the most intentional walks for a career until broken by Bonds
“Williams hit in the worst ballpark for left-handed pull hitters, Ruth in the best”
Inaccurate. Historical Yankee stadium was a pitcher’s ballpark, which is why starting in 1923, Ruth hit most of his career HR’s (post playing in the cozy confines of the Polo Grounds) on the road.
Yankee Stadium also cost Joe DiMaggio tons of HR’s. The power alleys were some of the worst in the AL.
“Ruth hit in better liineups, with Gerhig hitting behind him.”
Gehrig wasn’t on the Yankees 1920-24, which are some of Ruth’s best offensive yrs. It’s also not Ruth’s fault that NY had a better farm system than BOS. That’s a non issue, since no one can control for that. But again, the five yrs Gehrig wasn’t a regular every day player/not on the roster were some of Ruth’s greatest offensive seasons.
Ruth hit 54 & 59 HR’s in 1920 and 1921, while Gehrig was still a student in HS and at Columbia.
Peckinpaugh, Wally Shang, and Bob Muesel were good role players, but they weren’t on Gehrig’s level, and yet Ruth managed quite well to hit.
“Williams lost five prime years to war.”
And Ruth lost 4.5 yrs as a starting pitcher–which means if you add about 10 additional HR’s to each season he wasn’t an every day player, and he still is HR leader of his era.
It’s not entirely relevant. It’s a “Shoulda, coulda,” but didn’t. Life isn’t always 100% static. Yes, perhaps Williams would’ve done amazing during those yrs–but, just like he had a major injury in the OF and missed a significant amount of time in ’50, so too who can say? Perhaps something like a major injury would’ve derailed him during those yrs–just like injuries hurt DiMaggio’s career.
“Hitting wise, Williams was the equal of Ruth”
Nope. Not really close. He hit .400 in ’41 (and no 200+ hits that yr), and that’s about it. Ruth has way more R’s scored, more H’s, more HR’s and more RBIs by far. Not even close. IF people want to give Williams extra credit for time missed, then give Ruth the same time–4.5 yrs as a pitcher, his 2 month suspension in ’22 for barnstorming, and his injury in ’25 which cost him a significant amount of time in the lineup.
“it was Ruth alone who single-handedly changed baseball, and who was also a great pitcher.”
Exactly. Yes, you do get it.
I daresay, outside of BOS, and over these decades, Williams is going to fade into the distance–but still, there’s only one Babe Ruth. Even Ohtani is compared to–Babe Ruth, not Ted Williams.
“Williams would have been better suited as a first baseman.”
Like Rudy York or “Dr. Strangeglove” Dick Stuart–great to excellent hitter, and completely useless as a fielder, period.
“Ruth spent many years as a fat outfielder”
Not quite. He was smart enough to hire a personal trainer, and thus saved 2nd part of his career. Ruth certainly wasn’t any worse than Williams.
The fact that no one, NO ONE, discusses Williams defensive abilities at all, (While they do talk about his successor, Carl Yaztremski), leads one to believe that Ted Williams really sucked big time as an OFer.
Williams = a great 2 Tool Player
Ruth = a great 4 Tool Player (could hit for average, power, had speed in his early years, and could throw)
Oh, and unlike Williams, Ruth remains an icon in MLB as in..he transcended the game itself and was bigger than the entire sport. Williams never achieved that level of fame. Even today, there are plenty of casual fans who don’t know who he was (outside BOS), but they still know who Babe Ruth was.
Also, Ruth played in 10 WS, 7 Rings.
Williams played in 1 WS, …. 0 Rings.
No fun when you don’t get it done.
Perhaps he meant that both gambled on the 1919 WS. Otherwise it doesn’t make any sense.
Cobb played in 1907-09 WS, and lost them all. Speaker played in 1912 and 1915 WS with BOS (which BOS won), and as player managed in 1920 with CLE (which CLE won).
In my defense, the death of John Amos was just announced today for whatever reason. However, you are 100 percent correct that he was the boss in Coming to America, not the king.
The annual Army-Navy game in Philadelphia would regularly outdraw that city’s NFL team’s entire home season. Maybe that’s why they took their moniker from the NRA. No, not that NRA, the other one:
I heard this a bunch, especially when from whiners from Cleveland when I was in college.
What I never hear is what is Rose supposed to do? “Wow, Ray you’re blocking my path to the plate really well, I guess I’ll slide ineffectually into you so you easily tag me when you get around to catching the ball.”
Yep, Pete Rose was a dick. Had lots of energy and drive, but not good character. Not among my favorite humans. But this collision–if anything more than “unfortunate timing”–was Fosse’s fault–blocking the base path without the ball.
Back in the 70s people could argue about what they imagined they saw a few times a few years earlier.
Now we can just look at the video:
Stopped around 17s gives a clear pre-collision view. Fosse is “blocking the plate”. But not actually the plate, but the base path four feet up the line, with his legs well spread a foot and a half on either side. Basically, he’s blocking the base path, with a “you ain’t going by” posture. While the ball is late and offline, Fosse doesn’t have it yet.
Rose’s options:
— try to run around Fosse and sneak back to the plate (which at some point is illegal/out)
— slide feet first into Fosse’s legs and end up off the plate–because Fosse is so far up the line
— try to slide head first through Fosse’s legs to reach the plate … which would have been a funny, but again doesn’t work because Fosse is far up the line.
— try to just run through Fosse to reach the plate and actually score–his job.
Looking at it now, my guess is Rose’s intent midway to home was to slide head first, but then he realized Fosse was way the hell up the line blocking not the plate but the base path and he wouldn’t make it to the plate even if he beat the throw–and quickly thought “F, that. My best shot is just barrel through”.
Rose takes criticism for playing hard in what’s essentially an exhibition game. But the same criticism applies to Fosse. Why are you blocking the basepath way off the plate when the ball isn’t there? It’s an exhibition game, just go catch the ball and try and make the tag. The problem–for Fosse–if Fosse had done that, then Rose would have scored. Fosse is likely hurt because he is still trying to catch the ball in the base path when Rose smashes into him. If you stop at 26s you can see this, Rose hits Fosse while Fosse is waiting for the ball–still a foot or two from his glove.
Yep, Rose wanted to be the big man and score to win the game. But likewise, Fosse wanted to be the big man and save the game, even though his pitcher had given up a 3rd base hit and the fielder’s throw was late/offline.
BTW, apparently in 2014 MLB moved to stop injuries from collisions like this. They banned not what Rose did, but banned what Fosse did–blocking the plate without the ball.
I forgot that Rose’s more famous hit on an intentional walk was to RBI Concepcion as the game winning RBI; Rose was allowed that one. IOW, he really did show some spunk.
I think Pete Rose belongs in the the HoF. Maybe not in 1995 but now, certainly.
However, even if Pete bet only on his own team to win there would still be questions about game management, roster usage, etc.. Depending on if he had bets on today’s game, does he hold back his best relievers – if he has a two run lead against the Expos on Thursday, does he hold his closer for the Dodgers on Friday, then lose in the ninth? Among all the factors going into decisions made on the bench, I can imagine it’s subtle influence.
I’ve read he had standing bets on every game but it seems uncertain. Personally, I’d bet money Pete Rose wouldn’t do anything but to try to win each game.
However…
Adjacent to Rose on that article’s list, Chipper Jones batted .303 left and .304 right. Now that’s consistent.
Rose himself warned aspiring switch-hitters that they would spend the great majority of their at-bats on the left. (I learned this the hard way; one season of switch turned me from exclusively right to exclusively left.) This is why it’s not surprising to see many natural righty switchers run up better averages (not just BA) from the left. You’re getting twice or more experience on that side. Quantity leads to quality.
“For the most part, triples are a very strong indication of a player’s overall speed around the bases, whether or not said player can hit the ball far enough in the OF so that he can ”
I’ll preface by stating I have no idea what Ruth’s foot speed was, but hitting triples has as much to do with placing the ball towards the right field corner as anything. So it’s not merely the outfield, but right field. You can hit linedrives into the left field corner all day long, but the number of triples you leg out is going to be less than a batter who hits the same number to the right field corner. I would imagine that the left handed hitting Ruth would have been pulling a lot of pitches to right field relatively speaking.
Also, who averages more triples, a LHB or a RHB? Lefties stand 4-5 feet close the first base.
The smaller rolls he played later in his career were always very entertaining. (Blade, Payback, etc)
Well, Jack Russell, the lead singer of Great White, also died last week. Is he worthy??? 😀
I was at the 1973 playoff game where Rose barreled into Buddy Harrelson to break up a double play, starting a big fight. Mets fans showered Rose with debris out in left and the umps almost called a forfeit. Yogi, Willie Mays and Seaver had to go out to the left field stands and tell the fans to stop.
Maybe Buddy and Ray Fosse were waiting for Pete at the pearly gates.
The Mets won 9-2 IIRC. Rusty Staub hit two homers. The Knicks also had won their last title that Spring.
I will note in passing, that consistent with the ‘Scarlet Number Morbidity Effect’, you ‘mentioned’ Pete at least twice in the last 6 months before his passing. See
https://www.unz.com/isteve/do-you-have-a-6-to-9-year-old-nephew-who-loves-baseball/#comment-6736442
and
https://www.unz.com/isteve/why-did-their-used-to-be-so-few-nepo-babies-in-big-league-baseball/#comment-6498563
That’s what Shoeless Joe’s family thought and he didn’t accept a voluntary lifetime ban.
You’re dead?
Not if you’re risking injury to an overworked starter because your closer isn’t available.
“Can’t miss ’em because the women are quite loud.”
I just stopped at a Panera Bread to buy a cup of coffee. A Black woman at the counter was loudly arguing with an employee about a wrong order and demanding a refund. The employee asked her to wait a moment while she took my order. Suddenly there was food flying through the air as she threw it at the employee, with me narrowly missing getting hit by it. I guess it could have been worse. At least she didn’t pull out a gun and start shooting.
“Whining”, my ass.
I know all the crap you spouted in your post. I watched the game live on TV back in 1970, and have seen replays of the play many times.
All of your points aren’t wrong. Some are valid. I already knew that. But I think that others are wrong.
What’s more-I don’t care. The play showed that Rose was at heart a POS. End of story for me.
Ray Fosse was 100 times the man that Rose was. He wound up with 2 World Series rings to Rose’s 3, playing half as many years. He was/is beloved in Cleveland, and also in Oakland. Oh, and unlike Rose, no paternity suits and no statutory rape charges.
Pete Rose died knowing he was ultimately a disgrace to baseball, and a pariah. He deserves it. No Cooperstown for you, Pete. LOL. Now go suck dog schlongs in hell.
Actually, it doesn’t bother me Selig’s in the Hall. He and his daughter seem to have done right by the city and the Brewers. It just bothers me who is NOT in the Hall. Pete is one of many.
I did not know the part about the Covid vaccine. Not surprising.
There have been lots of “turbo cancer”deaths and diagnoses of relatively young people over the past couple of years (and 58, like Mutumbo was, is young). It’s absolutely a real phenomenon and it doesn’t take a particularly deep understanding of the immune system and its relationship with carcinogenesis to see how there could be a logical relationship to the mRNA shots.
Three years ago, I resisted a lot of intense pressure and guilting from family members and others to get one of those shots. And even despite having spent a week in the hospital with Covid and being as sick as I’ve ever been in my life, I still don’t regret that decision one bit today. It is something I am legitimately proud of myself for doing. I don’t think I could handle the anxiety of having a possible ticking time bomb in my body, whether cancer or aneurism or whatever.
Horrible but not worse than the webm of the tranny who freaked out at a Panera and assaulted a middle aged guy who was smaller than him. A strange day at Panera, with everyone present apparently male.
“the 1973 playoff game where Rose barreled into Buddy Harrelson to break up a double play,”
‘Buddy’ Harrelson?!
BUDDY?!?!
Hand over your badge and gun immediately.
Baseball used to protect the game from gambling.
Now baseball protects the game for gambling.
There are people who claim that the US has huge lithium reserves, but would rather that the third world be the source, because lithium mining is pretty much the most destructive form of mining.
Third World? Australia is the world’s leading lithium producer, and it’s scarcely Third World. In second place is Chile, which is arguably not part of the Third World either.
Like Mickey Mantle.
Rose career runs scored = 2,136
Cobb career runs scored = 2,246
Ty Cobb lead the AL in Runs Scored 5 times. This was during the Dead Ball Era, when unlike during Rose’s time, high scoring games weren’t much of a thing and most teams played what is now referred to as Small Ball, or playing for one run at a time.
Unlike Rose, Cobb was primarily a cleanup hitter. Like Williams, and unlike Rose, Cobb won the Triple Crown.
Pete Rose never lead the NL in stolen bases during his career, which saw the resurgence of the SB as an offensive weapon. During Pete’s career NL’ers Wills, Brock, Leflore, Moreno each stole 95+ SBs in a single season. In the AL Henderson stole over 100 SBs with a high of 132 in ‘82, when Rose was very much still playing in MLB.
Apparently Pete wasn’t a speedy baserunner, or, it simply didn’t occur to him to attempt to steal many bases.
For full perspective, LA DH-P Ohtani stole 50+ bases in 2024; Pete Rose never stole that many bases in a single season. Ohtani’s 50+ SBs is almost one-third of Rose’s career total of SBs.
Our main already-running lithium pits are not in anyone’s backyard, they’re out in the deserts of Nevada and Arizona. Apparently Maine has generous lithium reserves but has specifically forbidden its pursuit. Australia? Not third world? I’m guessing you haven’t recently asked an Australian. But compare the rural Nevada example. I’m guessing the Aussie mines are not in downtown Melbourne, but in the uninhabitable center.
Two switch hitters! An intriguing match-up. But I followed the Mets in those days, and nobody ever called Derrel Harrelson “Buddy”. It was always just Bud, since childhood.
He was born on D-Day. We lost him in January.
Dutch Leonard accused Cobb and Speaker of throwing games, had proof, AL Pres. Johnson published the letter,
Cobb and Speaker transferred to the As shortly afterward.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Leonard_(left-handed_pitcher)
Bolivia certainly qualifies. Something like ¾ of the world’s known reserves are in this triangle:
That’s the world’s driest desert, by the way. Nary a drop of rain in 400 years.
Australia is the leading producer of lithium, but how long will that last? The three Li-Δ countries and the US each have more in the ground.
China is also high on the list. They are the world’s largest consumer of the stuff. Do they have enough at home to meet the demand? It would be funny if they had to import it from the Triangle, which is antipodal to Shenzhen. At least the trip is 99% on water.
He also played General Jack D. Ripper in Dr. Strangelove. He was also good in another Kubrick film, The Killing, and also in Asphalt Jungle.
Sterling Hayden once remarked that he was probably the only person who ever joined the Communist Party and bought a yacht in the same week.
What? Is that Geordie?
The recording I heard of Cash singing Sunday Morning Coming Down had somewhat different lyrics. And I could have sworn the line was “Lord, I wished that I was stoned”, not “Lord, I wished that I was stone”. I guess they cleaned up the lyrics a bit for TV.
Thanks YAA. Excellent link. (Way, way, way more important than Pete Rose.)
This whole nonsense of giving your patch over to other people is just bio-illogical. But allowing these people to invade is some level of insanity that is just beyond belief.
Of course, it was impossible for British leaders to know what sort of issues would come up with Africans in an Anglo nation, as that had never happened before … oh wait!
Hopefully we’ll get on to something better–cheaper, more energy dense, lower environmental issues, easier recycling–than lithium ion before we really electric everything.
Pete Rose wasn’t as great as Ty Cobb.
I tried to paste an image from the Migrationwatch UK website, showing EU and Non-EU immigration since the 1990s. Screenprint plus postimages wouldn’t work so the site had an “embed image” option which produced that code.
You can see what I was trying to paste, half way down this page:
https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/migration-statistics-over-time
When Poland et al joined the EU, the Guardian said 50,000 might come. 5 million Europeans asked for residency after Brexit!
AD – that was all Boris Johnson’s regime, Sunak just continued it.
Boris meanwhile bought a very nice Oxfordshire manor house – with a moat round it!
My vague impression is that Ted Williams, like Jim Rice decades later, was clever at playing balls off the Green Monster wall in Fenway’s left field. That’s not exactly Cal Ripken level defense but it’s something.
Nobody “dies unexpectedly” of cancer. Trust me on this one.
In the last decade, on the other hand, a lot of people have died unexpectedly of too much fentanyl in their cocaine or meth.
Evidently Mr. Driscoll had a heart attack. At age 43, that’s fairly unusual nowadays. Coroner said high blood pressure was the salient cause.
Surely not: there’s a very dull pro-Commie movie about pre-Castro failed attempts to take Cuba; the Party connection, who supplies money and weapons and is, confusingly, made to look as much as possible like Bronstein, reaches the island on a yacht he never leaves.
From the migrationwatch page I linked to:
Sorry to be so OT, Steve.
Just use Career Adjusted OPS.
Ruth 206, Cobb 168, Rose 118.
So much simpler.
“Died unexpectedly” most often is obituary-speak for suicide or overdose, though not in this case.
My kids hardly believe me when I told them it used to be this way when I was growing up. Sports gambling was something that was done in the shadows and nobody talked about it.
Heck, half the fun of watching Al Michaels call a football game was listening to him insinuate the gambling ramifications of a particular play:
“And that kick goes OVER the crossbar and the field goal is good…”
“The quarterback slides UNDER the tackle and into the end zone and a lot of fans are probably not happy right now that he was able to score like that…”
“Boy he really COVERED up that ball when he fell on it here in the waning seconds of the game…”
Edith Wharton wrote a short story about a society woman who divorced around 1900 and lost her status. Twenty years later, everyone was getting divorced, but she was still put in the cheap seats.
Sports betting became legal here a few months ago, and it seems like it’s every third ad. The state lottery can’t be pleased, but they are saving money on ads.
Maybe Pete Rose intuited what big-data analytics showed after he retired: trying to steal bases was not worth it unless one had an extraordinary success rate.
Of course, with the restrictions on pitcher throws to first base and the larger bases implemented this year, that calculus has changed.
As Gonzalo Lira said, the Covid vaccine was an IQ test. I failed it, partially, by taking the 1st Pfizer shot and never showing up for the second. They bugged me for months about missing my appointment with destiny. Then, they just gave up.
Earlier this year former USC running back Reggie Bush got his Heisman Trophy from 2005 back. Rose deserves similar treatment now.
https://www.espn.com.au/college-football/story/_/id/40014492/reggie-bush-heisman-trophy-returned
To be fair, Ohtani’s SB total, and especially his outstanding SB percentage are to a significant degree a function of rule change regarding pickoff attempts.
I dimly recall reading in “My Turn at Bat”, Williams’ autobiography that he writes that he devoted much thought to positioning for the tendencies of opposing hitters and was thus able to make plays in spite of his athletic deficiencies. He contrasted this with, I think, Dom DiMaggio who was an outstanding defensive centerfielder and an excellent athlete. Williams said something like ‘Dom had to make great running catches often that I would have made by being positioned better’ (Not that Williams could ever have played center). Williams was pretty much the archtype of the obsessive White guy so I tend to think he was on to something, there.
There is no reason to believe a word Rose said on the topic. Rose denied betting on baseball at all from the time of his lifetime ban (1989) until 2004 where he “wrote” a book admitting to it. The guy sent 15 years denying any gambling on baseball, then when he learned he could make a buck, decided to come clean.
Even if he didn’t bet against his team, we’re still faced with Rule 21(d)(2): “Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared permanently ineligible.”
Rose finished his career with 79.5 Wins Above Replacement (I write that fully aware of the drawbacks of WAR) over 3,562 games.
Also finishing with 79.5 WAR was Curt Schilling, who got there in 569 games.
Rose gambled on baseball, Schilling is guilty of BadThink.
Well said TAG.
Physical activity, skill, teamwork are all valuable. But plucked away from the context of community and nation, just bread and circuses–well the circus part. And a circus that distracts and drains the community solidarity–“our team”, “our side”–impulse that Americans and other Westerners need to be using to actually protect their communities and nations.
You can say that again!
“And a circus that distracts and drains the community solidarity –“our team”, “our side”–impulse that Americans and other Westerners need to be using to actually protect”
Worse than that, it not only distracts and drains community solidarity — it neutralizes it and then hands it directly over to our enemies who hate us, who you passively watch on TV enjoying their “college” “scholarships” and laughing themselves silly as they rape your daughters.
Is it really something, though? Yaztremski was known for his defensive abilities, and sportswriters did give him some credit. The fact that virtually no one in the sports media ever wrote about Ted’s fielding, his arm, etc at all during his career (unlike, say, his main Al contemporary, Joe DiMaggio, who was written about for his fielding/arm) speaks volumes.
One doesn’t expect to find tons of praises for Ted’s fielding in the same way people write about his hitting; but to find absolutely nearly nothing and nil over a near generation of playing career speaks volumes–it’s like, “Yea, he’s out there near the Monster. Uh…could we just focus on how great a hitter he was, please?”
Clemente is written about for his fielding as well as his hitting.
Mays, Mantle, Speaker, Bonds, DiMaggio are written about for their fielding.
Even Reggie is written about for his fielding. And Roger Maris.
Ruth has been written about for playing adequately in RF, though there is plenty written about for when he was mainly a pitcher.
Using Occam’s Razor…uh, the fact that nil is written regarding Ted’s fielding suggests quite honestly…that he sucked, or at best was mediocre, and the writers were being charitable by not bringing it up.
Ted Williams would’ve been an amazing DH. I daresay he’d have jumped at the chance to DH so he could focus on his great love, hitting.
“Maybe Pete Rose intuited what big-data analytics showed after he retired: trying to steal bases was not worth it unless one had an extraordinary success rate.”
Or maybe, to put it bluntly, he wasn’t very fast on the bases. White man couldn’t run fast.
Except for Ty Cobb, of course.
“it’s pretty gross how much gambling is promoted in the culture at large.”
Well, this is what white men created.
“I don’t have any great ideas off the top of my head how you can balance personal freedom and try to protect people from themselves”
My vague impression is that those who met do so within their means. Of course, betting and lotteries is in our DNA.
https://www.history.com/news/8-notable-lotteries-from-history
So it’s all about management of the systems in place.
“All this stuff has a strong bread and circuses vibe, although with the added benefit that it transfers even more money away from the plebes to elites.”
Citations required.
Have never heard that before.
I’m not entirely in agreement with that characterization – there was a lot of coercion and propaganda happening during the immediate post-covid era and I am fortunate enough that my livelihood wasn’t at stake for my refusal to take it… but I do think that anyone gullible enough to to be bribed with a donut to take a rushed experimental injection probably isn’t (or wasn’t) among the best and brightest in our society to begin with.
Gambling and people taking advantage of each other has been around since man became sentient. Caveat emptor.
What makes the lottery particular despicable is that it’s the state taking advantage of the less fortunate and intelligent among us and calming a monopoly for itself on doing so.
I’ll take Jimmy.
Joe was unfit even when young. Unfit to be VP. A complete–and very obnoxious–joke running for President in 2020 and obviously declined further from that now. But that doesn’t mean he’s going to keel over tomorrow.
Jimmy’s 100 is impressive. One of my grandmother’s younger sisters made it to 100 back in the 00s, and her twin made 99–pretty darn cool. But it is much rarer for a guy, and very hard to go much beyond that.
Jimmy Carter will probably be dead within a year–maybe within this year. And while that could be the case for Sleepy Joe, more likely five years from now he’s being rolled around and spoon fed gruel by some Nigerian working the waiting room section of the old folks home.
Schilling was presumably pitching in those 569 games.
In his 30s, Pete Rose developed remarkable expertise at hitting doubles, leading the NL five times from age 33 to 39. Why steal second when you can hit a double?
Yes, everybody would have been happier with Williams as DH. As a left-fielder, he was adequate enough that he stayed out in left instead of moving to first base like a lot of other sluggers have done.
I’ve understood that the measure of WAR is different between pitcher sand position players. I also wish if WAR is to become the measure of a Hall of Fame’er there would be standards set to avoid biases of voters, just eliminate the writers.
But, hell yeah, Schilling is a HoF’er. It takes brass to dare them to vote for him. He’s aware there are things more important.
I take the long view. A short hundred years from now nobody will care about a baseball hall of fame. Who remembers Marty Marion? Who? Until then, we have to live with ourselves.
Still, I like people to be recognized when they earn it.
Don’t forget Kaline
I was still fairly young when Rose was banned from baseball, but I remember back in the late ‘90s or early ‘00s he was the subject of the Playboy interview. After reading it I remember thinking, “He may be a great ballplayer, but this guy is not a pleasant person”.
1. My favorite Pete Rose story (told it here, before):
A reporter asked one of the Reds, “What it is it like playing with Pete Rose?”
He glared at her, then said, “Why, the hell are you asking me? I’m Johnny Bench!”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Bench
P.s. And Bench (like me) thought/thinks that Rose should be kept out of the Hall.
2. When I was living in San Diego, Ted Williams was a well known local resident. Tony Gwinn (Padres) went to him several times to talk hitting and get tips. Always thought that was cool that he did that, especially given all the modern coaching and the like. But Gwinn felt Williams knew some things. Oh…and maybe just appreciated the heritage!
https://www.newsday.com/opinion/editorials/buddy-harrelson-new-york-mets-miracle-mets-long-island-ducks-ijy7ye2r#
And here, Ed Kranepool (also recently died) and Cleon Jones, old teammates, call him Buddy. As do guys he coached: Kevin Mitchell, Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling.
https://www.nysportsday.com/2024/01/16/everyone-has-lost-their-buddy-bud-harrelson-1944-2024/
Kaline was perhaps the greatest AL RF-er of the 50s-70s era. Just as Brooks Robinson was THE greatest defensive 3Bman in MLB history, a strong case can be made for Al Ksline’s defensive abilities in RF. Certainly in the top 5 in the AL over the 20th century
That’s why in all honesty Ted Williams was not a 5 tool player, much less even a 3 tool player.
But then, seldom anyone brings up Rogers Hornsby’s defensive abilities at 2B. Same thing.
Are the two (amazing offense and defense) seldom to meet together in a single MLB player?
Obviously a few do come to mind, but they are few and far between
In OF: Mays Mantle DiMaggio Speaker Clemente Kaline Ichiro for example are widely lauded and praised in (nearly) equal length for their defense as well as the offense ability.
Honestly can’t think of who is considered to be THE LF of all time, the Brooks Robinson equivalent except in LF
And, not just a batter who either couldn’t DH or the DH didn’t yet exist so they stuck him out in LF
Honestly don’t know who’s the greatest defensive LF of all time—at the same level as Mazeroski Brooks, DiMaggio/Mays/ Clemente/Ichiro are for their respective positions. Who is THE LF standard above all others who have played in MLB? The one whose name is unanimously agreed that he’s the one?
I don’t know…
I have a little inside knowledge on this…he never bet against his team even when he was deep in the hole …alot of gamblers in Ohio were waiting for the day he did but it never came.I used to work with guys who wrote a fair amount of his action last century.
Remember when people were talking themselves and others into taking the shots to demonstrate that they were smarter than their supposed inferiors? For example, here’s Jack D (January 2, 2021):
How many on this blog fell for it?
Hitting a double is not an alternative to stealing second.
Unless you can hit a double from first base.
Yes, that’s what “games” in the context of a player’s statistics means – games in which that player appeared. So yes, Schilling pitched in 569 games. He was the starting pitcher in 436 of them. A starting pitcher who does not miss any starts due to injury will make around 32-33 starts in a season, so Schilling’s longevity was impressive.
To have 79.5 WAR and not be in the Hall of Fame is astounding. Unlike Rose, Clemens, Bonds, Palmeiro, etc there are no gambling or steroid accusations. He has been kept out entirely for his political views. The Baseball Writers of America are a shameful lot.
Follow up to this:
Tesla supplier Piedmont Lithium gets key North Carolina mining permit
https://www.reuters.com/business/piedmont-lithium-gets-mining-permit-north-carolina-project-2024-04-15/
Thanks(no button)
Arthur “killer” Kane, bassist for the New York Dolls, did. He felt sick, checked himself into a hospital, was promptly diagnosed with leukemia, and died two hours later.
The sportswriters in Beantown were absolutely NOT charitable to Williams. The opposite, in fact. he battled them his whole career.
Maybe Eddie, Kevvie, Keithie, and Ronnie called him that while naked in the shower. Lindsey and Ralph and Bob never did on the air:
Nor did Topps nor the press.
I watched or listened to hundreds of Mets games in those years. Bob Murphy’s centennary was a couple of weeks ago. Only slightly older than Truman Capote and Jimmy Carter. Gogi “The Wayward Wind” Grant was born the very next day.
I’m reading a book by William Rehnquist at the moment. Just learned that he and pianist Roger Williams were born on the same day as Carter.
Except that he was part tacobreath.
I was saved by my paranoia (can you doubt the computer?) but the point at which I knew cold that I would not be receiving the experimental gene therapy was the Israeli documentary. One “vaccinated” Israeli says he’s honestly just waiting to die. Surely there is mercy in the world. Netanyahu did a contemptuous, mocking presentation with a comedian to admonish Israelis to get the jab. Netanyahu, whether it’s the clot shot or the deliberate relaxation of security on October 7th or for that matter his own brother, has never shown any compunction about sacrificing a Jewish life.
Nah. While I grant that he was not as great as Ruth, Williams is one of the four most dominant hitters of all time, is one of the most iconic players of all time, and certainly transcended the game. He was the best player of his generation between the Ruth and Mantle/Mays eras. If he were going to fade, it would have happened already (his last game was over 60 years ago). He belongs in the pantheon.
And I’m not from Boston.
It was a regular season game between Cleveland and Detroit that they allegedly bet on in 1919, not a WS game.
Also to be fair, schilling doesn’t have 300 Wins. Barely has 200. Honestly don’t think he should be inducted either.
Randy Johnson, on the other hand, has 303 career W’s, and over 4,800 K’s, second all time and most for left handed pitchers.
There’s a yuge difference between Johnson’s and Schilling’s stats. One’s all time great, while the other is kinda sorta okay yeah well maybe very good
Same reason that Phil Villapiano doesn’t deserve to be inducted into the football HOF.
A Mets fan. It figures. That should tell us all something—the all time greatest team was just a few blocks away, but some do like to follow the perpetual losers instead.
A reasonable guess is Jack D, for one, especially.
“That should tell us all something—the all time greatest team was just a few blocks away, but some do like to follow the perpetual losers instead.”
Rooting for the all-time greatest team reveals a pronounced lack of character; how easy and lazy is that? It is just a game, after all — why not cheer for the losers?
Saying you like the Beatles tells us exactly nothing about your musical taste or judgment. It just tells us your hearing is functioning properly.
The 1973 Mets team at 82-79 in the regular season defeated the Big Red Machine and took the Swinging A’s into game 7. And then there was that little dust up at second base involving Rose and Harrelson. Rose must have had at least a 30-35lb weight advantage. Haha. According to Rose, it was Harrelson calling him a “cocksucker” that caused Pete to escalate the situation.
Post-season #s: Johnson in 19 starts, 7-9 record, 3.50 ERA, 132 K, 3 CG, 2 SO.
Schilling 19 starts, 11-2, 2.23 ERA, 120 K, 4 CG, 2 SO.
Close, but got to give Schilling the ball when the stakes are highest.
My hs teammate’s father, Rod Gaspar, played on the 69 Mets squad.
“Rooting for the all-time greatest team reveals a pronounced lack of character”
Uh, bullshit.
It has been said, that winning can teach you many things. In actuality, losing, perpetually losing year after year after year, only teaches you one thing–how to lose.
“how easy and lazy is that?”
Anyone can be David, it’s much harder to root for Goliath.
Real character can also be a conditioning experience. Think about the mindset that goes into winning, and that once a team has won a championship, and several more, and then several more, that they must constantly and continually repeat every. single. YEAR.
From 1920-64, over a 45 yr span, NYY won 29 AL Pennants and 20 WS. They finished 7th in ’25, and in 4th place in ’45. Aside from those two seasons, they never finished lower than 3rd place…in 45 YEARS. On average, if a MLBer played for the Yankees for at least 3 seasons, there was a guarantee that he would play in at least 1 WS. Anyone thinks that that is easy?
It’s much EASIER to finish last or near last yr after year. Losing like that takes no character, it is the epitome of laziness, the lack of desire to improve one’s standings, which, is what MLB’s format is called—standings.
The main reason why Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, and Mantle are so widely praised is not just because they were great players; they also were winners.
“Winning isn’t everything; it’s the only thing”–V. Lombardi
“Winning is contagious, unfortunately, so is losing”–V. Lombardi
Prior to finally winning in 2016, the Cubs won 2 WS in 1907 and 1908, and they went through a 108 yr span of losing. They went 71 yrs between WS appearances.
What did they learn in 108 yrs? How to lose, and sometimes the ways were creative, and sometimes they were blown out by the entire league. But in their case, losing didn’t teach them….how to become better and win.
“It is just a game, after all”
Sports are a metaphor for life. Lessons for life can be learned thru sports.
“why not cheer for the losers?”
So says the losing mentality. Why not go for the winners? They learned how to get it done.
And life is short enough with few guarantees. Therefore it makes more sense to watch the winners, observe what they do correctly, and attempt to emulate them in one’s own personal lives.
It is much harder to be Goliath–total dominance, year after year. That was the goal that was ingrained in NY for generations.
Arrogance? Absolutely. But if the results back up the arrogance than it is understandable.
Can’t honestly think of a single team in MLB that has an equivalent history like the Yankees. Perhaps to a lesser extent the Cardinals, or even the Dodgers. But the Dodgers don’t give the attitude that they really care about winning. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. Certainly not every year, every decade and every generation, like the Yankees.
The Yankees didn’t get to be a global brand because they had the greatest 20th century player who changed the game forever (Babe Ruth).
They’re a global brand…because they win, and win more than any team ever in history. AND they continue to set that bar as the team standard–either you win the WS, or you have failed for the season.
No other team in MLB does that. None have that standard.
It is much harder to repeat and maintain dominance than to lose. If anything, character is stronger and built through more adversities by…overcoming the challenges, and winning.
And if you like Can?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLcmoIGudxA&pp=ygUNY2FuIHRhZ28gbWFnbw%3D%3D
Sorry, is this The House of Mirth you are alluding to? Or a different work?
“How many on this blog fell for it?”
I was vaccinated for COVID. I have been vaccinated many times for many things and didn’t think a lot about it. Do you object to all vaccines or just COVID vaccines?
That he thinks Shea and Yankee Stadiums are “just a few blocks away” shows just how much Yojimbo knows. They’re in different counties.
Granted, the Polo Grounds, where the Metropolitans played their first two seasons, were indeed “a few blocks” from The House the Fat Guy Built, about ¾ mile. But that was before my time. And even they were in different counties.
(Fun fact about the Polo Grounds: the Giants and Dodgers were playing a game there, in December, when Pearl Harbor was bombed.)
That Yojimbo checks the standings before watching a game to know which side to root for tells us all you need to know about his character. When I looked around for a Premier League club to follow, I was struck by the resemblance of Manchester City to the Mets, and to the Giants and Dodgers before them.
Whom to support was a lot less obvious than whom to hate– City’s crosstown rivals. Our Yo-Zat would have gone straight for then-dominant United. And dropped them as soon as their star faded and they were surpassed.
No 200+hit seasons? A stat to go with his career World Series batting average of .200. Although, as has been noted, he did lead the league in walks eight times, so that has its skew effect.
Last game on the Manhattan side was 61 years ago. Oh, and United isn’t “crosstown” from City, they’re suburban.
“That he thinks Shea and Yankee Stadiums are “just a few blocks away” shows just how much Yojimbo knows. They’re in different counties.”
No, I do get it. It’s called a rhetorical flourish, and at your age you should have the understanding for it.
The point is and remains: One team was during that era especially, the perpetual losers, while the other team remains the greatest MLB franchise in history. You could have attended a few NYY games per yr, or every other year. Certainly could’ve listened and watched Yankees games on the radio/TV? Being in the NY Metro area, I would assume then as now, that Yankees games are broadcast on the radio and TV. [I understand that for last few decades, the YES network controls the Yankees televised rights, but up to then, I would assume that NYers could watch the Yankees far easier on TV than say, other MLB fans who don’t live in the NY metro area]
“The House the Fat Guy Built,”
Uh, no, the House that Ruth Built (as in, the greatest 20th century MLB player, bar none, period).
“That Yojimbo checks the standings before watching a game”
With regards to the Yankees, I’ve never had to check their standings. For the most part, they either finish in 1st place, or at the top in almost nearly every single given season, since…1995, in their current incarnation. Amazing that a team can both rebuild and still contend for 1st place simultaneously.
“When I looked around for a Premier League club to follow”
Tells us all we need to know about your character. PL Clubs aren’t American. Why follow a foreign alien sport like soccer? And if one must follow a foreign alien SWPL sport, why not follow American soccer? Soccer isn’t American and has no business in this nation, period. It’s also not a very masculine sport, as compared to say, the NFL.
“Whom to support was a lot less obvious than whom to hate–”
So you follow teams and things in life in general based on hate, and not on healthy respect for a team’s ability to win. For the most part, that’s a major character flaw, and a psychopathic one at that.
Schilling’s regular season stats are plenty good enough for the Hall of Fame, but his postseason performance was unworldly.
Those who don’t give something a lot of thought are especially susceptible to the manipulative technique I pointed out with the example of Jack D’s comment. Noticing it (and many others) being deployed at the time was a factor in my very thoughtful decision not to take any COVID
vaccinesshots.Winners want the ball.
https://www.cnn.com/2013/02/25/sport/bloody-sock-auction/index.html
You are pathetic. Finding deep emotional meaning in the outcome of games played by professional adults, all of whom are significantly younger than you are, is…pathetic.
Go outside and meet a woman. Get off your couch and stop masturbating while dreaming of Juan Soto and Garret Cole.
I worked with guys who wrote his action in Ohio for years…I can say with near certainty he never bet against his team…many wise guys assumed he would at some point when he got in too deep but never happened!
Schilling’s regular season stats are plenty good enough for the Hall of Fame
No they’re not, actually. No 300 W’s, barely 200 W’s. David Wells has about 25 more career W’s, and he’s at best a borderline HOFer. Unlike Schilling, Wells pitched a perfect game.
Babe Ruth led the AL in walks. He set the MLB record for most walks in a single season (broken in the 21st century), and he had the most intentional walks during the 20th century.
And yet Ruth had 3 seasons of 200+ H’s in a season. So it definitely can be done. They gotta pitch to you eventually.
Though he played injured in the World Series he was in.
You can’t compare players’ performance many decades apart. Some statistician tried with a giant survey, and Bill James took it apart piece by piece. He felt sorry for the guy, for wasting his time and resources, because it’s basically impossible.
It’s been played here since at least 1862. Before some Canadians went down to Harvard and turned it into gridiron.
Because it’s decidedly inferior, and got everything wrong for decades? I mean, the “Chicago Fire”? That sounds like a rock band, not a serious athletic organization.
That was not about whom to support. That was about whom not to support. A totally different calculus.Pete would have socked you for that.
So in Pete Rose’s first seven seasons in his hometown, when the Reds averaged fourth place and ten games behind, you’d have advised his neighbors to root for the dominant Dodgers or Cardinals instead?
You cheered for the USSR in 1980 because their hockey team was so much better than ours. I stuck with the red-white-and-blue– to which the Russians themselves returned a dozen years later– and the result was sweet. The boycotting Canadians were better than either of them, anyway.
What happens when you lose every game in an NFL season? You get rewarded. Like a single mother on welfare. “Please, Mr Commissioner! I’ll do better next year! Give me first choice in the draft.” “Here, you can have it. Now please stop crying.”
And in any of the world’s top soccer leagues? (Which don’t include ours, by the way.) You get kicked out for finishing last, or even just next-to-last. Replaced by a winning lower-division team.
Now that’s masculine!
Fans care far more than players for sure. Tom Brady was from California and so was Ted Williams, it wasn’t like they were from Boston. These guys want to win for pride, job security and wages, probably very few care about the city they play for or the fans. If I remember correctly I had read that Ted Williams wasn’t too fond of Boston and some of Boston fans. How many of those great Yankee players were from NYC? Lou Gehrig was from The Big Apple but The Bambino was from Baltimore, DiMaggio? California. Mantle? Oklahoma. Reggie Jackson from Pennsylvania. Yogi Berra was from St. Louis, etc., etc. Rose was one of the few that played professionally for his hometown.
Did Pete hold back his closer with a 2 run lead against the last place Braves on Thursday, whether he had money on the Reds or not, because he was betting on the Reds against the first place Dodgers on Friday?
Not a doubt in my mind Pete never bet against his team, nor that he tried to do anything but win every game in which he was a participant but he placed himself in the position to wonder.
Pete never again participated in competitive activities of MLB. He should be in the Baseball Hall of Fame now.
The season immediately preceding my first as a fan, the Mets finished ninth. The Yankees? Tenth! A full game behind the eighth-place Senators and 3½ behind the K.C. A’s. Under your rule, that new team in the Yanks’ original city would have been the one to follow.
Under soccer’s rules, the 1966 Bronx Bombers would have been sent down to the AAA International League, replaced by Rochester, Columbus, or Toronto. Imagine the baseball Leafs promoted to the majors the same spring the hockey Leafs won their last Stanley Cup. That would have been epic.
I wanted to research Rose’s early career, so Googled his name with “minors”. This is what I got:
The Pete Rose Legacy Problem Is Sex with a Child, Not Gambling
As for minor leagues, Rose played at the D and A levels, but not AAA. Too bad– had he started a year earlier and at AAA, he would have played at Havana– a nice bookend for his time in Montreal. The Sugar Kings were the Redlegs’ top farm club in the latter ’50s. 1959 was their final year in Cuba. One-eyed Whammy Douglas pitched ten games for them that season:
“You can’t compare players’ performance many decades apart.”
Uh, yes you can. For the most part, you can. That’s why official MLB made a big to-doo when Rose passed Ty Cobb on the all time H list, and Cobb retired after 1928 season. Thats why Ohtani is being compared to Babe Ruth, why DiMaggio’s 56 game hitting streak is still recalled, and why Ted Williams is recalled for being last to hit over .400 in a season.
“Some statistician tried with a giant survey, and Bill James took it apart piece by piece.”
Bill James also places Ruth pretty highly on all time greatest ever to have played in MLB.
“It’s been played here since at least 1862. ”
And it still isn’t anywhere near the top spot of the US’s all time watched sports. The main people who like it these days, aside from illegal aliens from South America, tend to be SWPL, and elitist ones at that.
“Before some Canadians went down to Harvard and turned it into gridiron.”
Took a while but as the decades progressed, so did the sport. And now we have a real one, real football.
“Because it’s decidedly inferior, and got everything wrong for decades?”
And you’ve just contradicted yourself and made my point. Soccer even though by your words, has been played in the US since 1862 has never been all that, quality wise. Translation: US doesn’t care about the sport, period. Because it isn’t part of the US culture, the national psyche, consciousness, etc. It ain’t us. Period.
We made various town ball games, evolved it into OUR OWN NATIONAL SPORT. Which it was for well over a century. It was us, our culture, our soul, and who were as a nation.
“That was not about whom to support. That was about whom not to support”
You just stated that you choose a team based on HATE. Either way, the decision is based on hate. Ya must have had a Biden moment.
“you’d have advised his neighbors to root for the dominant Dodgers or Cardinals instead?”
CIN neighbors had no history of winning until the 1970’s, when they won 2 WS, 4 NL Pennants, and 6 Division Titles. An individual fan decides for themselves who to support. If they prefer perpetual losing, that is their decision. If they decide to support a team that finds ways to overcome adversities and constantly and consistently finds ways to win, that is also their decision, and entirely up to them to make that decision for themselves. But again, it is much harder to be Goliath–anyone can be David (Cinderella team) for a year or two.
“You cheered for the USSR in 1980 because their hockey team was so much better—”
I don’t follow Hockey. It’s not American. Period, end of story.
“What happens when you lose every game in an NFL season? You get rewarded.”
And sometimes, actually many many times, many NFL franchises still can’t figure it out, much less get it done. Takes more than getting the higher draft picks to make a mediocre team into a competitive one.
I’m not surprised about what you say regarding Williams and not caring for Boston, and few players having an affinity for the team that they spend their careers with. Although to be fair, Stan Musial wasn’t from STL, and yet he not only moved there, is buried there, and lived his entire adult life there–he became a symbol of midcentury STL. Same with Bob Feller to a large extent, he became part of CLE area and lived there for many years.
“How many of those great Yankee players were from NYC?”
That’s really not how it works. MLB, like the NFL, drafts players from all over the US.
What I CAN state with certainty, is that teams like NY do seem to breed players who were very, very proud of their direct connection to having played for the Pinstripes. Ruth is buried in NYC area even though he wasn’t from there. “I want to thank the good Lord for having made me a Yankee”–DiMaggio. Same with Berra. Same with Billy Martin, and others.
In the 20th century, the Yankees stand virtually alone that have this loyalty (perhaps LA and a few other franchises have this same loyalty), and a lot of this has to do with winning, constantly winning season after season. When a player plays a lengthy career with a winning franchise and the franchise’s legacy is one of constant domination and winning championships, then yes, one will tend to have pleasant memories of that area and of its fans.
Admittedly, Tom Brady is a unique example: He helped turn NE into a winning franchise and yet holds no real loyalty to NE.
What tends to be the norm, at least it was in MLB, was Ted Williams not holding much loyalty for BOS; after all, they never won anything during his career, and the fans tended to boo him mercilessly.
NY fans didn’t boo DiMaggio; They didn’t boo Berra; or Ruth, or Gehrig. They did initially boo Mickey at first, but over time, they came to appreciate him as well.
Winning championships tends to do that for a player, it makes his time spent with a winning team quite memorable, more enjoyable,
fans tend to appreciate him more, etc.
IF these allegations are true then Pete Rose was a real POS. Living in Tampa where the Reds used to play their spring training games I had heard plenty of negative stories about Rose but never this one.
Makes me think of Lance Rentzel who played for the Cowboys long ago who was arrested for exposing himself to a 10 year old girl. This guy was married to a sex kitten like Joey Heatherton and the sick bastard is exposing himself to children.
You quoted Lombardi on winning. He got that from UCLA’s Red Sanders, who was mocking his school’s supporters’ impatience. Vince himself had to walk it back later, as the logic inevitably leads to cheating. As in Daley Democrats.
Dominated by blacks. Black men are more masculine physically, but more feminine mentally. Why that would attract you…
It takes more than EBT cards to get out of the underclass, too. Perfect analogy– high draft picks are food stamps. My point is, if losing is as bad as you say, be consistent and punish the loser by throwing him out of the league. Destroy his investment.
In Britain and Europe, one earns one’s way into the top leagues. In North America, one buys one’s way in. Or, rather, one’s taxpaying neighbors do. Why have we abandoned privately-funded and owned ballparks for expensive, and soon obsolete, socialist palaces? (Do any of Rose’s home parks still stand? Oh, yeah… Olympic. Largest crowd: for Pink Floyd, in 1977. Eww.)
It is where the weather favors white men. Where it’s better for blacks or indios, no. First US Stanley Cup: 1917. First year US-based teams outnumbered Canadian in NHL: 1926. First relocation of Canadian club to US: Ottawa to St Louis, 1934.
St Louis was a soccer hotbed as well– Berra and Garagiola played it as kids. Their neighbors dominated our 1950 World Cup squad which beat England’s.
I guess St Louis isn’t in Yojimbo’s America!
And the Caribbean.
You happen to remember how they reported this at the time? I remember something happening to Lance but not the details.
I read his book as a teen. He had a compulsion for flashing which he mostly but not entirely kept under control. He seemed genuinely contrite, never blaming others. I would go easier on Rentzel than on Rose or Cosby or Diddy.
I was just a young lad at the time being born in 1961. I always thought Joey Heatherton in her prime was smoking hot though.
Randal Woodfield who was cut by the Packers went on to become known as the I-5 killer. I guess Rentzel flashing girls pales in comparison to this character.
Don’t forget Kobe Bryant.
I doubt that this would be unanimous, but Yaz would have to be in the discussion. Played the wall skillfully, rarely made an error, and had a great arm. Can’t ask for much else from a left fielder.
If I remember the story correctly, Goliath was the loser.
Tell us… how many times did you vote for Richard Daley? He sure knew how to win in 1960!
Forget? I can hardly remember him.
“Vince himself had to walk it back later, as the logic inevitably leads to cheating.”
He never directly walked it back; it was his motto and still quoted and attributed to him. On the field, Vince got it done which is why GB is known as Titletown, yes, GB was called by the monniker before, but with Lombardi, it became cemented in public consciousness as Titletown.
“As in Daley Democrats.”
No, as in Giancana “Momo” Democrats.
“Dominated by blacks.”
wasn’t always. Whites created the sport.
“Black men are more masculine physically”
Eastern European men didn’t get the memo. Pound for pound, ounce for ounce, they can hold their own vs blacks.
Regarding UK football pitches…uh, Google AI? What can you tell us about public funds (taxes) used for building the pitches?
“Yes, UK taxpayers subsidize Premier League pitches through the Premier League Stadium Fund and other government investments:
Premier League Stadium Fund
Since 2000, the Premier League has invested over £192.7 million in the stadiums and facilities of clubs in the EFL, National League System, and Women’s Football Pyramid. This includes grants of up to £20,000 to help clubs make their grounds more accessible for players, fans, and officials.”
“First US Stanley Cup: 1917.”
For US WS: 1903 (this was more or less a restart of the Temple Cup series, from the mid 1890s.
The Temple Cup was a postseason championship series in Major League Baseball (MLB) that took place from 1894 to 1897. The series was played between the first and second-place teams in the National League (NL), the only major league at the time. The Temple Cup was awarded to the winner of the best-of-seven series. The series was also known as the “World’s Championship Series”
“First year US-based teams outnumbered Canadian in NHL: 1926. ”
Hockey has never been the US’s number one most followed sport, ever. And never will be. It isn’t an American sport, period. It’s Canadian.
Then as now, STL remains an MLB town, first and foremost. The Rams couldn’t make it there, and yet the redbirds (cards) are the marquee team. One of the few NL teams that can credibly claim to be a national team (LA obviously, is another one).
Question for Steve, as he appears to be getting giddy that the Dodgers (or Doyers as they’re sometimes called by local angelinos) are doing well so far in the postseason, when did the Dodgers get to be an elite top of the league team? Obviously before they moved to LA, but one can make the case that it began with manager Leo Durocher who led them to the 1941 Pennant. In ’46, they fought STL to a tiebreaker playoff series (lost in two games). Point being, uh, it wasn’t directly due to #42’s arrival on the scene that singlehandedly made them great. First they had a very competitive team, and then they continued to win, or at least remained competitive, up through 1966.
It’s also possible that Steve as a young grade schooler might remember seeing Sandy Koufax on the mound at Dodger Stadium in 65 or 66. At least, it’s possible that he attended a game where Sandy pitched.
Wasn’t around during Sandy’s heyday, but did get to see HOF STL/PHIL P Steve Carlton on the mound, and Mr Slider was absolutely fantastic. The epitome of great control, or command of all his pitches.
Now see, I have heard Yaz in the conversation, and the fact that Yaz HAS been written about regarding his defensive and arm abilities would tend to go a long way to confirming this observation. Honesty I can’t think of another automatic LFer as in “Yep, that dude’s THE one.” As in, the greatest ever LFer to have ever played the game, the Brooks Robinson of LF.
Just can’t think of any one single individual that stands out. But Yaz certainly has gotten some votes on that front, so that should count for something. But the greatest ever? Just can’t say at this time.
One things for certain. It ain’t Williams. No one ever cites his arm and his glove as being as great (or even competent) as his bat.
And the funny thing, is that MLB has tons of right handed power hitters, singles hitters, what have you. So you’d think that LF would be a pretty important position, and by this time in MLB’s storied history, we’d have enough data to determine who exactly is considered to be THE greatest fielding LFer in MLB history. But not a single unanimous individual name ever seems to pop up, much as they do regarding other positions.
Strange that.
And oftentimes, Goliath is defeated by a David, or in sports, by a Cinderella team–BRK defeating NY in ’55; MIL defeating NY in ’57; PIT defeating NY in ’60; STL defeating NY in ’64; ARZ defeating NY in ’01; FL defeating NY in ’03.
The point remains: Any one can be David for an appropriate time; it’s much harder to be Goliath–total dominance, over and over, yr after yr.
The best defensive leftfielders tend to be guys who would play centerfield if they had good throwing arms: e.g., Ricky Henderson, Barry Bonds, and Willie Wilson. There’s probably somebody who played left field rather than center despite being a great outfielder because their old ballpark had a weirdly deep left field. Goose Goslin, maybe.
I was going to say Pee-Wee Reese playing for the Dodgers from 1940-1958 and putting up 68 WAR despite missing about 15 due to missing 3 years during WWII. Having an ultra-consistent shortstop is a huge blessing. But the Dodgers’ great leap forward was in 1939. So I’d say that it was putting Branch Rickey’s protege Larry MacPhail, the inventor of night baseball, in charge in the front office from 1938 that made the difference.
MacPhail joined the Army after the 1942 season, and his mentor Branch Rickey (inventor of the farm system) moved over from the St. Louis Cardinals to helm the Dodgers. So, I’d guess that having the two most brilliant baseball executives of all time helm the Dodgers in 1938-1950 propelled the Dodgers from a joke franchise to neck and neck with the Yankees as the top franchise since WWII.
“The best defensive leftfielders tend to be guys who would play centerfield if they had good throwing arms”
Yes, one of Bonds most famous plays was his failure to throw out Sid Bream at the plate in game 7 of the 1992 NLCS. At the time, Bream was among the slowest baserunners in MLB, and yet Bonds couldn’t throw him out. That play still rankles Pirates fans to this day, and is the main reason why PIT lost the NL Pennant to ATL.
RF’s Clemente and Dave Parker would’ve thrown Bream out.
But all the examples you name I’m still not sure if they unanimously qualify as the greatest ever LFers in MLB. Very good, perhaps. There doesn’t yet appear to be a LFer who is the Brooks Robinson of his position. We will know him when he appears, because it will be obvious to all watching.
Definitely MacPhail was a unique brilliant innovator executive. He did overreach, however, when he attempted to purchase the Yankees outright, as well as his abusive drinking and behavior at the 1947 WS postgame celebrations, and thus Dan Topping and Del Webb outvoted him and proceeded to kick him out. It’s difficult to poinpoint what exactly MacPhail did to help mold NY into the contenders they always were by that point in their history; he wasn’t directly responsible for signing Mantle, Ford, bringing Berra over from STL, nothing directly that his footprint on NY the way it does in CIN and BRK, but this is most likely due to the fact that he wasn’t in NY very long to have made a difference.
One of the things that helped improve BRK’s fortunes pre-’38/’39, was that they fired a journeyman player, and a journeyman manager (to that point), Casey Stengel. Stengel would proceed to manage BOS NL, with similar mediocre results. Which is why its a fair point to state that Casey Stengel is vastly overrated as a manager–he managed BRK, BOS, and NYM all to mediocre dreadful standings. He lucked out, in no small part, by having managed the greatest MLB team in the 20th century when they were at their pinnacle, or epitome of greatness. NY could just as easily have kept Bucky Harris (who had won the 47 WS for NY, and led them to 3rd in ’48, a close three way pennant chase that ended with BOS vs CLE in a special playoff game). Bring back Bucky Harris in ’49 and NY still would’ve been fine and most likely have won the WS just as they did under Stengel.
“I’d guess that having the two most brilliant baseball executives of all time helm the Dodgers in 1938-1950 propelled the Dodgers from a joke franchise to neck and neck with the Yankees as the top franchise since WWII.”
This sounds about right, certainly makes the most sense regarding the results that played out.
Overall, the Dodgers fortunes greatly improved once they moved to LA in 58. They’ve always been at the top of MLB in attendance figures. Like NY, they are a global brand. The acquisition of Ohtani removes all doubt on this point.
Although going 30+ yrs between WS Championships didn’t help LA’s case as being the equal to NY; comparing them to the Cowboys in the NFL (a similar drought for an elite team without a Super Bowl Championship) was a fair one.
But LA is definitely in the conversation as to who is THE premier franchise in MLB. It seems that LA is the franchise in the NL; the Yankees, however, remain the elite team in MLB, period.
LA can definitely make their case as being the Yankees equal in one obvious way, and that’s to play them in the WS in the coming years.
Certainly the betting would be off the charts.
Ohtani vs Judge on the biggest stage. Now that would be an ideal WS.
Moving forward in this postseason, LA is going to be handicapped since they lost Clayton Kershaw to an injury and he won’t be available for the playoffs.
In 1946, Vinegar Joe Stillwell thought he had stomach indigestion. The doctor told him that he had two advance forms of cancer and a third developing. He lived three more months.
A few years ago, a fellow I know who grew up in Cincinnati told me that he would see Rose in his neighborhood because Rose would swing by frequently to pick up a high school girl who lived on his block. I can’t remember if he said this explicitly, but he certainly implied that she was underage, maybe 14-15.
(It doesn’t sound as though Rose was too discreet about this, and did the girl’s parents know about this and were ok with it? I don’t know).
Didn’t Bonds have a pretty good arm, but played left because of Andy Van Slyke? (and then presumably stayed in left after that partially owing to inertia).
It is interesting how left field does seem to be the least sexy defensive position other than probably first base. It’s often where your worst outfielder goes, and there don’t seem to be any iconic leftfielder defenders at the level of iconic rightfield defenders (Clemente, Ichiro, Kaline, etc). A contrast to the Little League (true) cliche that you stick your worst fielder in right.
If he were that good defensively though, would you put him in left?
I presume more balls are hit to left than right, so I’m not sure why you wouldn’t want to have a fast flyball hawk in left …
Uh yes, providing that CF and RF are already taken up by excellent players. Someone has to play LF, so why not the best possible talent available?
When Henderson was traded to the Yankees in 1985 Yogi Berra put him in center as he had Ken Griffey playing left. Griffey played RF with the Reds but the Yankees had Dave Winfield so Yogi made his outfield Griffey-Henderson-Winfield. By the time Billy Martin was rehired by the Yankees in 1988 Griffey had been traded for Claudell Washington, so Billy switched the two of them and returned Rickey to his natural position in LF, where he stayed the rest of his peripatetic career.
I was reading about KK a year or two back and found myself channelling the thoughts of Captain Willard in Apocalypse Now:
I think we should mention excelling at football and rugby, an early attempt at a music career in UK (while Rhodes scholar as per your comment). Also he wasn’t just a helicopter pilot, he was a flying instructor. He was also slated to teach English at West Point but this was around the time he left the Army. After which he was a commercial pilot.
As you say – highly accomplished. Very impressive.
Yup, he announcers called him Bud, if I recall correctly. Same era, I lisened every nigh as a kid, if I wasn’t waching on tv. Kiner’s Corner, Lindsay Nelson’s jackets, and Bob Murphy’s “We’ll be back with the happy recap.”
I was 5 in ’69 and 9 in ’73. The Mets were the team in town, not the Yankees in that era (the Mets drew 2.7 million in 1970, the Yanks 1.1, and they even fell below 1 million at one point, and in 1987 and ’88 the Mes drew over 3 million, the Yankees under that mark).
Although I went to the Chris Chambliss home run game in he ’76 playoffs and game 4 as the Reds swept. I am a rare fan of boh eams, alhough partial to the Mets.
In fact, what really makes me feel old is that I remember Ken Griffey senior as a rookie in ’73 and as a vet on that ’76 Reds team, and his son is now retired for 14 years.
This sounds a tad like Bob Murphy calling him Buddy (announcing the fight game), but it may be Curt Gowdy. I should know Murph’s voice in my sleep but it’s been a while.
https://www.google.com/search?q=mets+reds+rose+harrelson+fight&oq=mets+reds+rose+harrelson+fight+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigATIHCAQQIRigATIHCAUQIRigAdIBCDc5NDBqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:b69e8392,vid:k8xKLnO4hOs,st:0
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6309907/2025/05/13/pete-rose-baseball-ineligible-list/
Archived link: https://archive.is/l2RG5