chaos-devel Mailing List for The chaos Operating System

Henrik Hallin-UU wrote:

> I have included themeing into my planning of tornado, so you guys need 
> not worry about your 31337 skins not working in tornado. ;)

Good... I almost thought you forgot about that essentiality. ;-)
-- 
"stormG3 is obsolete"

Best regards,
Per Lundberg

Daniel Andersson wrote:

Hi Daniel,

> without being a os developer nor a chaos(.net) developer, but having 
> experienced both the amiga-way (may it rest in peace!) df0:, warez: etc, 
> the xp-way c:, d: etc and the unix-way, i would opt for the unix-way 
> since it offers the most flexibility

It might be so. Perhaps we could mix them and have:

/ - the root
// - the virtual root
//disks/etc - partition in the virtual root

...and be able to assign //disks/0/partition/2 to both /home/ull or the 
labeled way //ull. //ull would be accessible from the VFS but not a part 
of the "root filesystem" like in traditional Unix.

This would give the greatest flexibility, it might be a bit confusing to 
the lamers/newbies though. :-)

> and then you have the question of how you actually mount it
> 
> do you do
> //disks/0/partition/2.mount /warez   (OO?)
> or
> mount //disks/0/partition/2 /warez

I think the latter one is just confusing. :-)

> everything in the fs being an object is an interesting thought..

I think version-control on everything is a cool idea, can be implemented 
with Subversion fairly easily. It will make things a lot slower but the 
cool part about it is that if the system is cracked, you can just revert 
to the previous version of that rootkit-replaced binary. ;-)

Obviously, a serious cracker would change the versioning system as well. 
But if chaos.net is done in a proper way, cracking it will be much 
harder than a Unix or Windows system because privileges will not be 
escalated as easily (there will be no root account). Of course, in the 
practical reality, the sysadmin will probably set up a root-like account 
anyhow. :-P
-- 
"stormG3 is obsolete"

Best regards,
Per Lundberg

without being a os developer nor a chaos(.net) developer, but having =20
experienced both the amiga-way (may it rest in peace!) df0:, warez: =20
etc, the xp-way c:, d: etc and the unix-way, i would opt for the unix-=20=

way since it offers the most flexibility

and then you have the question of how you actually mount it

do you do
//disks/0/partition/2.mount /warez   (OO?)
or
mount //disks/0/partition/2 /warez

everything in the fs being an object is an interesting thought..

/ d

On 4 Apr 2007, at 17:00, Per Lundberg wrote:

> Tjena!
>
> (Sorry for you internationals about this mail being in Swedish, I =20
> started
> writing it to Henrik personally but I post it to the list as well. If
> someone replies to the list, please reply in English at least or =20
> better yet,
> translate my mail altogether into English)
>
> Tycker detta =E4r coolt, vi kan satsa p=E5 att n=E4sta release (0.0.3) =
=20
> har en
> minimal version av Tornado med en liten knapp man kan trycka p=E5 som =20=

> g=F6r att
> det h=E4nder n=E5got eller s=E5...
>
> Sedan m=E5ste man ju ha n=E5gon windowmanager eller liknande och det =
=E4r =20
> ju lite
> mer jobb. Men det k=E4nns coolt detta! Vi borde =E4ven satsa p=E5 VFS =
och =20
> HostFS
> s=E5 att man kan s=E4tta en fixed katalog (typ C:\chaos) att vara en =20=

> virtuell
> chaos-root.
>
> Jag har en del tankar om hur VFS skall funka, f=E5r f=F6rs=F6ka rota =
fram =20
> lite tid
> n=E5gon g=E5ng och speca hur jag t=E4nker. Men vi hade ju en tanke om =20=

> detta f=F6rut:
>
> // - virtuell root
> //disks/0/partitions/0 - ett filsystem
>
> mount //disks/0/partitions/0 / - assigna den som rootpartition.
>
> Men faktum =E4r att man skulle ocks=E5 kunna fundera p=E5 det h=E4r =
med
> enhetsbokst=E4ver. Eller snarare enhetsnamn. I Windows =E4r det ju C:, =
=20
> D: osv. I
> XP =E4r det ganska smidigt med hyfsat dynamisk tilldelning av =20
> enhetsbokst=E4ver
> ocks=E5.
>
> Vi skulle kunna g=F6ra p=E5 ett liknande s=E4tt fast s=E4tta s=E5 att:
>
> mount //disks/0/partitions/0 root:/
> mount //disks/0/partitions/1 home:/
> mount //disks/0/partitions/2 waReZ:/
>
> Det =E4r ju ingen sj=E4lvskriven princip att vi m=E5ste ha en =
UNIX-liknande
> filsystemslayout med en root / och allt mountat i ett katalogtr=E4d =20=

> under det.
> Men nackdelen med "labels" liknande detta =E4r f=F6rst=E5s att man =
inte =20
> har en
> rot... :) Eller? Skulle det funka i praktiken?
>
> mvh,
> Per
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <sf...@us...>
> To: <cha...@li...>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:36 AM
> Subject: [chaos-svn] SF.net SVN: chaos: [1338] trunk/chaos.net
>
>
>> Revision: 1338
>>          http://chaos.svn.sourceforge.net/chaos/?rev=3D1338&view=3Drev
>> Author:   sf_hal
>> Date:     2007-04-04 02:36:35 -0700 (Wed, 04 Apr 2007)
>>
>> Log Message:
>> -----------
>>
>>
>> Modified Paths:
>> --------------
>>    trunk/chaos.net/Applications/Cluido/Program.cs
>>    trunk/chaos.net/BUGS.txt
>>    trunk/chaos.net/Library/Chaos.Console/Console.cs
>>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Server.Tornado/Program.cs
>>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Server.Tornado/Server.Tornado.csproj
>>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Wrappers/Server.Console/=20
>> ConnectionHandler.cs
>>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Wrappers/Server.Console/Console.cs
>>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Wrappers/Server.Console/MainWindow.cs
>>    trunk/chaos.net/chaos.suo
>>    trunk/chaos.net/start.bat
>>
>> Added Paths:
>> -----------
>>    trunk/chaos.net/start Server.Tornado.bat
>>
>>
>> This was sent by the SourceForge.net collaborative development =20
>> platform,
>> the world's largest Open Source development site.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------=20=

>> ----
>> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
>> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to =20
>> share
>> your
>> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
>> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?=20
>> page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3DDEVDEV
>> _______________________________________________
>> chaos-svn mailing list
>> cha...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chaos-svn
>>
>>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=20=

> ---
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to =20
> share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?=20
> page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3DDEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> chaos-devel mailing list
> cha...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chaos-devel

Another question one should ask is wether the traditional filesystem=20
concept should be ripped straight off. I was thinking more along the=20
lines of files being objects in a sense. Files can be created, copied,=20
moved, changed, deleted, recovered etc etc. One should be able to=20
identify what files are identical, what the files' histories are etc=20
etc. But obviously a tree hierarchy makes a lot of sense...

I am currently implementing some test drawing stuff in the Console=20
library, the console server and adding test commands to cluido. After we=20
have some working base code here, I will start hacking at a minimal=20
tornado setup.

I have included themeing into my planning of tornado, so you guys need=20
not worry about your 31337 skins not working in tornado. ;)

Henrik


Per Lundberg skrev:
> Tjena!
>=20
> (Sorry for you internationals about this mail being in Swedish, I start=
ed=20
> writing it to Henrik personally but I post it to the list as well. If=20
> someone replies to the list, please reply in English at least or better=
 yet,=20
> translate my mail altogether into English)
>=20
> Tycker detta =E4r coolt, vi kan satsa p=E5 att n=E4sta release (0.0.3) =
har en=20
> minimal version av Tornado med en liten knapp man kan trycka p=E5 som g=
=F6r att=20
> det h=E4nder n=E5got eller s=E5...
>=20
> Sedan m=E5ste man ju ha n=E5gon windowmanager eller liknande och det =E4=
r ju lite=20
> mer jobb. Men det k=E4nns coolt detta! Vi borde =E4ven satsa p=E5 VFS o=
ch HostFS=20
> s=E5 att man kan s=E4tta en fixed katalog (typ C:\chaos) att vara en vi=
rtuell=20
> chaos-root.
>=20
> Jag har en del tankar om hur VFS skall funka, f=E5r f=F6rs=F6ka rota fr=
am lite tid=20
> n=E5gon g=E5ng och speca hur jag t=E4nker. Men vi hade ju en tanke om d=
etta f=F6rut:
>=20
> // - virtuell root
> //disks/0/partitions/0 - ett filsystem
>=20
> mount //disks/0/partitions/0 / - assigna den som rootpartition.
>=20
> Men faktum =E4r att man skulle ocks=E5 kunna fundera p=E5 det h=E4r med=
=20
> enhetsbokst=E4ver. Eller snarare enhetsnamn. I Windows =E4r det ju C:, =
D: osv. I=20
> XP =E4r det ganska smidigt med hyfsat dynamisk tilldelning av enhetsbok=
st=E4ver=20
> ocks=E5.
>=20
> Vi skulle kunna g=F6ra p=E5 ett liknande s=E4tt fast s=E4tta s=E5 att:
>=20
> mount //disks/0/partitions/0 root:/
> mount //disks/0/partitions/1 home:/
> mount //disks/0/partitions/2 waReZ:/
>=20
> Det =E4r ju ingen sj=E4lvskriven princip att vi m=E5ste ha en UNIX-likn=
ande=20
> filsystemslayout med en root / och allt mountat i ett katalogtr=E4d und=
er det.=20
> Men nackdelen med "labels" liknande detta =E4r f=F6rst=E5s att man inte=
 har en=20
> rot... :) Eller? Skulle det funka i praktiken?
>=20
> mvh,
> Per
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: <sf...@us...>
> To: <cha...@li...>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:36 AM
> Subject: [chaos-svn] SF.net SVN: chaos: [1338] trunk/chaos.net
>=20
>=20
>> Revision: 1338
>>          http://chaos.svn.sourceforge.net/chaos/?rev=3D1338&view=3Drev
>> Author:   sf_hal
>> Date:     2007-04-04 02:36:35 -0700 (Wed, 04 Apr 2007)
>>
>> Log Message:
>> -----------
>>
>>
>> Modified Paths:
>> --------------
>>    trunk/chaos.net/Applications/Cluido/Program.cs
>>    trunk/chaos.net/BUGS.txt
>>    trunk/chaos.net/Library/Chaos.Console/Console.cs
>>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Server.Tornado/Program.cs
>>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Server.Tornado/Server.Tornado.csproj
>>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Wrappers/Server.Console/ConnectionHandler.c=
s
>>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Wrappers/Server.Console/Console.cs
>>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Wrappers/Server.Console/MainWindow.cs
>>    trunk/chaos.net/chaos.suo
>>    trunk/chaos.net/start.bat
>>
>> Added Paths:
>> -----------
>>    trunk/chaos.net/start Server.Tornado.bat
>>
>>
>> This was sent by the SourceForge.net collaborative development platfor=
m,=20
>> the world's largest Open Source development site.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
>> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
>> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to shar=
e=20
>> your
>> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
>> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=
=3DDEVDEV
>> _______________________________________________
>> chaos-svn mailing list
>> cha...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chaos-svn
>>
>>
>=20
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share=
 your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3D=
DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> chaos-devel mailing list
> cha...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chaos-devel

--=20
Henrik Hallin
Casper Minisystem AB
Tel. kontor: 018-10 00 18
Tel. direkt: 0707-958 959

Tjena!

(Sorry for you internationals about this mail being in Swedish, I started 
writing it to Henrik personally but I post it to the list as well. If 
someone replies to the list, please reply in English at least or better yet, 
translate my mail altogether into English)

Tycker detta är coolt, vi kan satsa på att nästa release (0.0.3) har en 
minimal version av Tornado med en liten knapp man kan trycka på som gör att 
det händer något eller så...

Sedan måste man ju ha någon windowmanager eller liknande och det är ju lite 
mer jobb. Men det känns coolt detta! Vi borde även satsa på VFS och HostFS 
så att man kan sätta en fixed katalog (typ C:\chaos) att vara en virtuell 
chaos-root.

Jag har en del tankar om hur VFS skall funka, får försöka rota fram lite tid 
någon gång och speca hur jag tänker. Men vi hade ju en tanke om detta förut:

// - virtuell root
//disks/0/partitions/0 - ett filsystem

mount //disks/0/partitions/0 / - assigna den som rootpartition.

Men faktum är att man skulle också kunna fundera på det här med 
enhetsbokstäver. Eller snarare enhetsnamn. I Windows är det ju C:, D: osv. I 
XP är det ganska smidigt med hyfsat dynamisk tilldelning av enhetsbokstäver 
också.

Vi skulle kunna göra på ett liknande sätt fast sätta så att:

mount //disks/0/partitions/0 root:/
mount //disks/0/partitions/1 home:/
mount //disks/0/partitions/2 waReZ:/

Det är ju ingen självskriven princip att vi måste ha en UNIX-liknande 
filsystemslayout med en root / och allt mountat i ett katalogträd under det. 
Men nackdelen med "labels" liknande detta är förstås att man inte har en 
rot... :) Eller? Skulle det funka i praktiken?

mvh,
Per

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <sf...@us...>
To: <cha...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:36 AM
Subject: [chaos-svn] SF.net SVN: chaos: [1338] trunk/chaos.net


> Revision: 1338
>          http://chaos.svn.sourceforge.net/chaos/?rev=1338&view=rev
> Author:   sf_hal
> Date:     2007-04-04 02:36:35 -0700 (Wed, 04 Apr 2007)
>
> Log Message:
> -----------
>
>
> Modified Paths:
> --------------
>    trunk/chaos.net/Applications/Cluido/Program.cs
>    trunk/chaos.net/BUGS.txt
>    trunk/chaos.net/Library/Chaos.Console/Console.cs
>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Server.Tornado/Program.cs
>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Server.Tornado/Server.Tornado.csproj
>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Wrappers/Server.Console/ConnectionHandler.cs
>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Wrappers/Server.Console/Console.cs
>    trunk/chaos.net/Servers/Wrappers/Server.Console/MainWindow.cs
>    trunk/chaos.net/chaos.suo
>    trunk/chaos.net/start.bat
>
> Added Paths:
> -----------
>    trunk/chaos.net/start Server.Tornado.bat
>
>
> This was sent by the SourceForge.net collaborative development platform, 
> the world's largest Open Source development site.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share 
> your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> chaos-svn mailing list
> cha...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chaos-svn
>
>