| Nowadays, most modern "software" aren't even "native OS" "apps" in traditional sense, but just glorified seperate desktop internet website tabs shortcuts wrapped in chromium, or if using modified chromium then "CEF" which is an tech allowing an internet websites written in HTML, CSS, JavaScript to be wrapped in seperate window, which allows then having less workload for the staff while everything else google does such as security management, sandboxing, offering in tech space ridicolously long term support after each OS was releasead such as on avareage depending on data enterprises and percantage of society uses said OS, 15 to nearly 20 years after it was releasead which when calculating it to usual tech life cycle, it literally is worth of 2 console generations, several AOSP feature updates, 3 windows releaseas among many other things as well. Ties to video games pc store distribution: As these are just are just websites wrapped in chromium or CEF, they cannot deploy kernel level DRM and devs must do this often times externally as store APIs such as steamworks just offers basic toolset for devs to implement, which players expect like achievemnts, trading cards etc. While ensuring store api works before launching the game, which is what valve has said about their wrapper as well; "Overview The Steam DRM wrapper is an important part of Steam platform because it verifies game ownership and ensures that Steamworks features work properly by launching Steam before launching the game. The Steam DRM wrapper by itself is not an anti-piracy solution. The Steam DRM wrapper protects against extremely casual piracy (i.e. copying all game files to another computer) and has some obfuscation, but it is easily removed by a motivated attacker. We suggest enhancing the value of legitimate copies of your game by using Steamworks features which won't work on non-legitimate copies (e.g. online multiplayer, achievements, leaderboards, trading cards, etc.). See Using the Steam Wrapper with Other DRM for more information on combining the Steam DRM wrapper with other DRM or anti-tampering solutions." Source: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm In which, valve already tracks DRM via their underrated visual design language per store when dev implement sth externally, they are showcasing it in yellow box as not theirs, like when dev adds additional store api on top of steamworks, it says; "Requires 3rd-Party Account: (Supports Linking to Steam Account)" To then when dev adds drm, it shows this; "Incorporates 3rd-party DRM: Denuvo Anti-tamper" Example: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2208920/Assassins_Creed_Valhalla/ While, valve tracks their own internal stuff via blue box, which showcases their anti cheat "VAC" or certified by valve personally external anti cheat implementation e.g "Uses Anti-Cheat Software VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat)" Example; https://store.steampowered.com/app/440/Team_Fortress_2/ So, as wrappers aren't drm, they aren't included in blue box and dev simply must add external drm themselves if they want to protect legitimate copies. Another smaller neat underrated fun fact: When, installing "youtube app" on desktop with that "plus" like tile in search bar, like many other sites allows via PWA which what google implemented as well, it makes even more cleaner audio, better image quality among many other things as these are now dedicated chromium process as well. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_Embedded_Framework |
jacobPOLMar 6, 8:48 AM
| I am non transfareable license with my own EULA and TOS, as set forth by Back-office support non disclosure agreements. Non transfareable license may or will include informal feedback loop as per TOS rules, granted by non transfareable license. You may not read non transfareable licensed threads other than...Voluntary engagement. I wonder which chromium is the best chromium, I don't know which chromium I like the most as let's see... late win10 and win11 UI's are internet websites wrapped in chromium, steam website wrapped in chromium, spotify site wrapped in chromium, minecraf launcher uses webview 2 and cef which are both chromiums, 99% of browsers are chromium, egs/EA app/ubisoft connect are websites wrapped in chromium, in game overlays are websites wrapped in chromium, PWAs are chromium. So I wonder which I like the most🤔 |
| Doesn't really surprise me I guess, these companies are always going to find ways of trimming the fat as they say. |
| Sounds great to me. Developers save money and effort. Many OS native apps use third party DRM anyway. If the web native app and the OS native app do the same thing what's the difference? |
| Now THIS is a post! Nice and detailed not afraid to go long. Take notes, Wiru! I didn't know all this but it's where you have consider the direction everything goes. It must hit a high point as they try to optimize product and then decline as they trim the fat and try to optimize profit over product. Optimizing product and profit at the same time with both rising is certainly impossible. Perhaps a founder can set up standards to prevent reduction of quality when the evitable profit optimization takes over product optimization. If I was the McDonalds owner in the 2000s, I would have definitely set a rule (1) we have a single 1 dollar burger forever (and maybe some other items, within reason) and (2) the sizes of food can't change if they have the same name. This way we wouldn't have been seen as a joke today after so much profit optimization. |
Shishio-kunMar 5, 7:54 PM
Reply to creepylurker
Sounds great to me. Developers save money and effort.
Many OS native apps use third party DRM anyway.
If the web native app and the OS native app do the same thing what's the difference?
Many OS native apps use third party DRM anyway.
If the web native app and the OS native app do the same thing what's the difference?
| @creepylurker Many OS native apps use third party DRM anyway. In fact, games on pc, using DRM is microscopic only 171 games out of 100k uses DRM in which it is usually removed some point after it was releasead as well. "Denuvo Anti-Tamper is the current de-facto standard for securing DRM schemes on modern titles. Since its original release back in 2014, it has been used to strengthen the DRM of over 150 titles;" Source: https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Denuvo Fun fact about denuvo, once the ownership has been validated online, token has been locally cached thus the game which uses drm can be played without internet connection offline for days even weeks before having to validate online again once token has been expired. If the web native app and the OS native app do the same thing what's the difference? The performance is far more smoother, and when companies uses modified chromium called CEF (chromium embeded framework), them can remove certain unnecesary modules to speed up the performance and ease the resources, while also as they are just seperate desktop browser tab window shortcuts, when minizing them to system tray icon, they are going into iddle "sleep" mode which eases on ram as well. Also another fun fact, steam before 2010 switch to CEF, steam was wrapped in internet explorer as well. source: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Chromium_Embedded_Framework |
| I am non transfareable license with my own EULA and TOS, as set forth by Back-office support non disclosure agreements. Non transfareable license may or will include informal feedback loop as per TOS rules, granted by non transfareable license. You may not read non transfareable licensed threads other than...Voluntary engagement. I wonder which chromium is the best chromium, I don't know which chromium I like the most as let's see... late win10 and win11 UI's are internet websites wrapped in chromium, steam website wrapped in chromium, spotify site wrapped in chromium, minecraf launcher uses webview 2 and cef which are both chromiums, 99% of browsers are chromium, egs/EA app/ubisoft connect are websites wrapped in chromium, in game overlays are websites wrapped in chromium, PWAs are chromium. So I wonder which I like the most🤔 |
Reply to Shishio-kun
Now THIS is a post! Nice and detailed not afraid to go long. Take notes, Wiru!
I didn't know all this but it's where you have consider the direction everything goes. It must hit a high point as they try to optimize product and then decline as they trim the fat and try to optimize profit over product. Optimizing product and profit at the same time with both rising is certainly impossible.
Perhaps a founder can set up standards to prevent reduction of quality when the evitable profit optimization takes over product optimization. If I was the McDonalds owner in the 2000s, I would have definitely set a rule (1) we have a single 1 dollar burger forever (and maybe some other items, within reason) and (2) the sizes of food can't change if they have the same name. This way we wouldn't have been seen as a joke today after so much profit optimization.
I didn't know all this but it's where you have consider the direction everything goes. It must hit a high point as they try to optimize product and then decline as they trim the fat and try to optimize profit over product. Optimizing product and profit at the same time with both rising is certainly impossible.
Perhaps a founder can set up standards to prevent reduction of quality when the evitable profit optimization takes over product optimization. If I was the McDonalds owner in the 2000s, I would have definitely set a rule (1) we have a single 1 dollar burger forever (and maybe some other items, within reason) and (2) the sizes of food can't change if they have the same name. This way we wouldn't have been seen as a joke today after so much profit optimization.
| @Shishio-kun Which modified chromium called "CEF' comes in to place, in which companies can for example remove certain unnecesary chromium components to ease on reasources like what valve did for example with steam when them switched from internet explorer to CEF. Source: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Chromium_Embedded_Framework |
| I am non transfareable license with my own EULA and TOS, as set forth by Back-office support non disclosure agreements. Non transfareable license may or will include informal feedback loop as per TOS rules, granted by non transfareable license. You may not read non transfareable licensed threads other than...Voluntary engagement. I wonder which chromium is the best chromium, I don't know which chromium I like the most as let's see... late win10 and win11 UI's are internet websites wrapped in chromium, steam website wrapped in chromium, spotify site wrapped in chromium, minecraf launcher uses webview 2 and cef which are both chromiums, 99% of browsers are chromium, egs/EA app/ubisoft connect are websites wrapped in chromium, in game overlays are websites wrapped in chromium, PWAs are chromium. So I wonder which I like the most🤔 |
| luckily, I don't use Windows, I use Linux. Luckily I use a computer from 2012, and not the modern crap hardware. |
| i am streaming all of my anime for viewing...... |
Reply to deg
jacobPOL said:
The performance is far more smoother
The performance is far more smoother
far more smoother than native apps? wrong
web apps today still uses javascript, html and css that are slow and resource heavy because they are interpreted languages compared to native apps that are compiled languages to machine code which are very fast and low resource usage
also windows 11 uses react native that is javascript
Windows 11 Start Menu Revealed as Resource-Heavy React Native App, Sparks Performance Concerns https://winaero.com/windows-11-start-menu-revealed-as-resource-heavy-react-native-app-sparks-performance-concerns/
| @deg Well... task manager says otherwise and also there is a reason why nearly entire computing industry switched to said afformentioned format because not only they reduced unnecesary workload, thus able to work on an actual project industries are working on, having less staff like for example how steam division of valve only has 70 people only considering how massive steam store is, among many other things as well. |
| I am non transfareable license with my own EULA and TOS, as set forth by Back-office support non disclosure agreements. Non transfareable license may or will include informal feedback loop as per TOS rules, granted by non transfareable license. You may not read non transfareable licensed threads other than...Voluntary engagement. I wonder which chromium is the best chromium, I don't know which chromium I like the most as let's see... late win10 and win11 UI's are internet websites wrapped in chromium, steam website wrapped in chromium, spotify site wrapped in chromium, minecraf launcher uses webview 2 and cef which are both chromiums, 99% of browsers are chromium, egs/EA app/ubisoft connect are websites wrapped in chromium, in game overlays are websites wrapped in chromium, PWAs are chromium. So I wonder which I like the most🤔 |
Reply to deg
@jacobPOL if you know programming then interpreted languages are by design easy to code with but it has bad performance
python and javascript are the most popular interpreted languages because of how easy to learn and code with them aka they are scripting languages
but if you want high performance apps like high end graphics video games and even gpu drivers then native apps done with compiled languages like c++ are the way to go but yes they are much harder and longer to make or code with
python and javascript are the most popular interpreted languages because of how easy to learn and code with them aka they are scripting languages
but if you want high performance apps like high end graphics video games and even gpu drivers then native apps done with compiled languages like c++ are the way to go but yes they are much harder and longer to make or code with
| @deg I apologize for late reply, I was eating some great soup which was beef combined with champignons and pepper, it was so great. Anyway, I agree that some high performance tasks such as 3D rendering, simulations and video games needs native pipeline but for everything else, simply creating internet website using html/css/java script and then wraping in chromium or CEF, and or even PWA is more than enough as it streamlines the workload for the entire staff, while offloading everything else to google, having massive OS support which is beneficial for enterprises as it is notoriously hard to transfer all the data from massive companies to new OS which takes a lot of time as well among many other things while allowing staff to focus on main projects them are working on. Anyway, that's it from me. Have, a nice day/evening depending on the timezone. While I am going also to finish re requiem today. Spoiler tag: resident evil requiem second half spoilers |
| I am non transfareable license with my own EULA and TOS, as set forth by Back-office support non disclosure agreements. Non transfareable license may or will include informal feedback loop as per TOS rules, granted by non transfareable license. You may not read non transfareable licensed threads other than...Voluntary engagement. I wonder which chromium is the best chromium, I don't know which chromium I like the most as let's see... late win10 and win11 UI's are internet websites wrapped in chromium, steam website wrapped in chromium, spotify site wrapped in chromium, minecraf launcher uses webview 2 and cef which are both chromiums, 99% of browsers are chromium, egs/EA app/ubisoft connect are websites wrapped in chromium, in game overlays are websites wrapped in chromium, PWAs are chromium. So I wonder which I like the most🤔 |
| I didn't have any fun reading that. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Lucifrost
I didn't have any fun reading that.
| @Lucifrost To be fair, the greater part of the post was actually a "fan fact", so fun was optional... until the end, at least. There was some short changing there. Another smaller neat underrated fun fact: |
Reply to Daviljoe193
@Lucifrost To be fair, the greater part of the post was actually a "fan fact", so fun was optional... until the end, at least. There was some short changing there.
Another smaller neat underrated fun fact:
| @Daviljoe193 Thanks, for pointing out a typo😅 Already corrected this. |
| I am non transfareable license with my own EULA and TOS, as set forth by Back-office support non disclosure agreements. Non transfareable license may or will include informal feedback loop as per TOS rules, granted by non transfareable license. You may not read non transfareable licensed threads other than...Voluntary engagement. I wonder which chromium is the best chromium, I don't know which chromium I like the most as let's see... late win10 and win11 UI's are internet websites wrapped in chromium, steam website wrapped in chromium, spotify site wrapped in chromium, minecraf launcher uses webview 2 and cef which are both chromiums, 99% of browsers are chromium, egs/EA app/ubisoft connect are websites wrapped in chromium, in game overlays are websites wrapped in chromium, PWAs are chromium. So I wonder which I like the most🤔 |
Reply to Lucifrost
I didn't have any fun reading that.
| @Lucifrost Fun is subjective..! Wizardry is fun for some of us! :D jacobPOL said: Which modified chromium called "CEF' comes in to place, So you're saying it's like the Costco hotdog? Interesting... |
Reply to Shishio-kun
@Lucifrost
Fun is subjective..! Wizardry is fun for some of us! :D
So you're saying it's like the Costco hotdog? Interesting...
Fun is subjective..! Wizardry is fun for some of us! :D
jacobPOL said:
Which modified chromium called "CEF' comes in to place,
Which modified chromium called "CEF' comes in to place,
So you're saying it's like the Costco hotdog? Interesting...
| @Shishio-kun So you're saying it's like the Costco hotdog? Interesting... Yes, can be thought of it as if removing some unwanted ingridients from the served meal while keeping the main meat of it... |
| I am non transfareable license with my own EULA and TOS, as set forth by Back-office support non disclosure agreements. Non transfareable license may or will include informal feedback loop as per TOS rules, granted by non transfareable license. You may not read non transfareable licensed threads other than...Voluntary engagement. I wonder which chromium is the best chromium, I don't know which chromium I like the most as let's see... late win10 and win11 UI's are internet websites wrapped in chromium, steam website wrapped in chromium, spotify site wrapped in chromium, minecraf launcher uses webview 2 and cef which are both chromiums, 99% of browsers are chromium, egs/EA app/ubisoft connect are websites wrapped in chromium, in game overlays are websites wrapped in chromium, PWAs are chromium. So I wonder which I like the most🤔 |
| @Shishio-kun I'm told that game resembles Etrian Odyssey, a game I find very fun. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Lucifrost
@Shishio-kun
I'm told that game resembles Etrian Odyssey, a game I find very fun.
I'm told that game resembles Etrian Odyssey, a game I find very fun.
| @Lucifrost I played a bit of Etrian - will definitely restart later as it was good - old Wizardry is like a brutal, stripped-down, unintuitive, barebones, confusing version of it. Up until Wizardry 7 maybe! The fun of the games was overcoming the challenge despite the confusion and using your imagination. Very old NES stuff! Constant punishments! But there is always a way to "cheat" these old games but I dont think it's really playing it any more. |
| So, C++ with QT or .NET with MAUI aren't so hot anymore? Or they still are if the app's purpose is to do something more than just to display web pages? |
Reply to RudeRedis
So, C++ with QT or .NET with MAUI aren't so hot anymore? Or they still are if the app's purpose is to do something more than just to display web pages?
| @RudeRedis Usually, these natively written desktop aplications are mostly reserved for game engines, 3D rendering, simulations and video games but nowadays almost everything, industries simply creates internet sites to then wrapping it in chromium or CEF and or PWA will do more than enough job as well. Because, it is way easier to handle by allowing staff to focus on actual projects without having to unnecesary wasting so many staff resources to maintain an "software" anymore, having massive long term support after each OS release thanks to google, while also offloading everything else to google as well such as sandboxing, afformentioned security management and updates so on and so forth. |
| I am non transfareable license with my own EULA and TOS, as set forth by Back-office support non disclosure agreements. Non transfareable license may or will include informal feedback loop as per TOS rules, granted by non transfareable license. You may not read non transfareable licensed threads other than...Voluntary engagement. I wonder which chromium is the best chromium, I don't know which chromium I like the most as let's see... late win10 and win11 UI's are internet websites wrapped in chromium, steam website wrapped in chromium, spotify site wrapped in chromium, minecraf launcher uses webview 2 and cef which are both chromiums, 99% of browsers are chromium, egs/EA app/ubisoft connect are websites wrapped in chromium, in game overlays are websites wrapped in chromium, PWAs are chromium. So I wonder which I like the most🤔 |
| Software is now Vibe-coded SaaS scams running in cloud services. I hate it here |
| i don't play pc games because they are OBVIOUS scams...... |
| i am streaming all of my anime for viewing...... |
Reply to DesuMaiden
i don't play pc games because they are OBVIOUS scams......
| @DesuMaiden Wait a minute. Don't you have a Steam account with Neptunia?? D: |
| Good thing, I don't play PC games, I use my PC for other purposes (which I won't specify here). |
| i am streaming all of my anime for viewing...... |
Reply to deg
Microsoft plans to build 100% native apps for Windows 11, as web apps ruin the OS experience https://www.windowslatest.com/2026/03/28/microsoft-plans-to-build-100-native-apps-for-windows-11-as-web-apps-ruin-the-os-experience/
so much for web apps they are slow and resource heavy anyway
so much for web apps they are slow and resource heavy anyway
| @deg For the OS, I can agree considering if microsoft wrote native UI code for windows xp to 8.1 which was alread a browser via internet explorer and vice versa for late win 10 which and win 11 which are chromiums, then the performance and RAM usage would be so much more effcient while at the same time featuring 50% ram usage reduction as well, however for the usual everyday "apps" I can see why companies prefer to write website and wrap it in CEF over app like valve with steam because as CEF is modular enough able to strip down from it's modules, it is very efficient while at the same time reduces staff workload and it is far easier to implement new store features and similar things as the staff does not have to rewrite the code while praying the code won't be broken as such websites like steam is on windows/macOS/linux and also mobile versions as well. Edit: Never mind... actually it is another website like wrapper as well, as it uses code similar to html/css and also uses Java which these three are used to built websites and then wraping in chromium as well. Edit2: "Implementation The working principles of React Native are virtually identical to React except that React Native does not manipulate the DOM via the Virtual DOM.[4]: §Chapter 2 It runs in a background process (which interprets the JavaScript written by the developers) directly on the end-device and communicates with the native[4]: §Chapter 2 platform via serialized data over an asynchronous and batched bridge.[22] React components wrap existing native code and interact with native APIs via React's declarative UI paradigm and JavaScript.[23] TypeScript is often used over JavaScript in modern React Native applications due to its increased type safety.[24] While React Native styling has a similar syntax to CSS, it does not use HTML or CSS.[4]: §Chapter 5 [25] Instead, messages from the JavaScript thread are used to manipulate native views. Using plugins, Tailwind can also be used with React Native. React Native is also available for both Windows and macOS, which is currently maintained by Microsoft." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/React_Native#Implementation |
jacobPOLToday, 7:29 AM
| I am non transfareable license with my own EULA and TOS, as set forth by Back-office support non disclosure agreements. Non transfareable license may or will include informal feedback loop as per TOS rules, granted by non transfareable license. You may not read non transfareable licensed threads other than...Voluntary engagement. I wonder which chromium is the best chromium, I don't know which chromium I like the most as let's see... late win10 and win11 UI's are internet websites wrapped in chromium, steam website wrapped in chromium, spotify site wrapped in chromium, minecraf launcher uses webview 2 and cef which are both chromiums, 99% of browsers are chromium, egs/EA app/ubisoft connect are websites wrapped in chromium, in game overlays are websites wrapped in chromium, PWAs are chromium. So I wonder which I like the most🤔 |
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