Look right, I like a lot of things about the foundational 2007 text Whipping Girl by Julia Serano. But if you’ve ever been told to read this book without any qualifiers, I’d like to apologise on behalf of the trans community.
Obviously the concepts of traditional and oppositional sexism, the idea of transmisogyny, Serano’s analysis of media depictions of trans women, and more are all superb and well worthy of praise. However, Serano is a land of contrasts, as AcidSmiley so concisely put it. She’s read both Leslie Feinberg and Kate Bornstein’s works, and writes this extremely salient quote:
We must also stop pretending that there are essential differences between women and men. This begins with the acknowledgement that there are exceptions to every gender rule and stereotype, and this simply stated fact disproves all gender theories that purport that female and male are mutually exclusive categories.
Despite all that, Serano has a perspective that’s utterly mired in exorsexist* binary-only assumptions, with language to match. On own, describing someone taking estrogen as “hormonally female” or her body prior to hormone replacement therapy as “physically male” would be unpleasantly cisnormative, but just that. I respect fully that the intent of this book is to analyse the ins and outs of being trans in the gender binary, and so the text is focused in that direction. When Serano writes goofy shit like “mtf spectrum” though, you wonder if she wouldn’t be better served by thinking a little outside of the two-genders box.
She doesn’t want to, though; Julia Serano circa 2007 (the text has not been meaningfully updated to my knowledge) is a brave warrior going against the grain of non binary domination :citation to defend our poor, repressed binary genders. She’s taking down those woke non-binary moralists from their ivory towers:
There are many different (but often overlapping) forms of gender entitlement and gender anxiety. For example, one of the most frequently discussed forms of gender entitlement is heterosexism, the belief that heterosexuality is the only “natural,” legitimate, or morally acceptable form of sexual desire. Heterosexist gender entitlement ean lead to homophobia, which is an expression of gender anxiety directed against those people who engage in same-sex relationships. Similarly, the gender-entitled belief that all women are (or should be) feminine and men masculine-which some have called cisgenderism-gives rise to transphobia, a gender anxiety that is directed against people who fall outside of those norms. While homophobia and transphobia have both received mainstream attention, thinking in terms of gender entitlement and gender anxiety also allows us to consider less well- known (but just as disparaging) forms of gender and sexual discrimination. For example, many gays and lesbians who believe that all people are “naturally” either homosexual or heterosexual often express biphobia, a gender anxiety directed toward bisexual people because they challenge the presumption that people can only be attracted to one sex or the other. I have also met some people in the transgender community who feel that identifying outside of the male/female binary is superior to, or more enlightened than, identifying within it. Such people often express gender anxiety (binary- phobia?) at people who identify strongly as either female or male.
I would be laughing if I weren’t actually really mad about this classic, foundational transfeminist text featuring tons of brainworms about anyone outside the binary. It’s a punchline, the phrase “binary-phobia” is perfect to sit right next to “heterophobia” or “cisphobia”. It’s right up there alongside white westerners claiming to be victims of racism when someone calls them a cracker, even. It should be plainly self-evident how ridiculous a claim this is. I want to ask Serano circa 2007 to tell me which genders have legal recognition - binary or non-binary ones?
It is truly incredible that a woman can write so sharply about the cultural/societal hedgemony of cis gender and heterosexuality, about how the concept of anything being inherently gendered is antithetical to feminism, and then turn around and write a deeply unserious aside about how non-binary people are apparently smug moralists commiting discrimination against people of binary gender due to the same gender anxiety**–in itself a smart concept about how queer people disrupt assumed gender/sexual normality–that drives cis people to be transphobes!! I am for real left somewhat speechless.
I don’t think Whipping Girl is a book nobody should read, obviously. But I scoured the bearsite to see if anyone had dome criticism of or even qualified their recommendation of Whipping Girl, and I found nothing. Part of me wonders if anyone has made a concerted criticism of this book before, but surely someone has before me. I yap exclusively for your benefit! I wonder if Sexed Up or Excluded are better, but frankly I’m just disappointed and angry. Truly a joke.
–
*Exorsexist, I learned today, is discrimination against people outside the gender binary!
**Serano describes gender anxiety as “the act of becoming irrationally upset or being made uncomfortable by the existence of those people who challenge or bring into question one’s gender entitlement.” In turn, she describes gender entitlement being “an arrogant conviction that one’s own beliefs, perceptions, and assumptions regarding gender and sexuality are more valid than those of other people”. She is more or less insinuating that non-binary people are befuddled supremacists who cannot stand… adherence to the gender binary. Cool.
Removed by mod
I can - and gladly will - delete that post if you delete the post i was originally replying to. You are directly justifying extensive transmisogynist hate campaigns in that. You may not be aware of that, i give you the benefit of the doubt on that, but it is what these nonsense claims about “baeddelism” are about: persecuting trans women by targeted harassment, mass reporting, false accusations and weaponizing transphobic moderation practices against them. The man you are linking to is deliberately misrepresenting such gamergate style transmisogynist online lynch mobs. I will not stop pushing back against transmisogynist hate speech like that until you have deleted it.
To clarify: “Baeddelism” isn’t real. It is a misrepresantation of legitimate callouts of entitled, discriminatory behavior by TME people (usually cis people, but in some cases also trans men and transmasculine nonbinary people). Saying there is a “transmisandrist” ideology perpetuated by trans women is the exact same type of victim blaming as made-up claims of “anti white racism”. Transfeminism has always been about adressing trans misogyny in general and, within trans communities themselves, pointing out the equally sad and simple fact that while transmasculine people do suffer massively from transphobia, they are not subject to the intersection between transphobia and misogyny. And that they, as people who have access to conditional male privilege, frequently copy patriarchal strucutres of silencing women, especially trans women. I have experienced this shit myself. Trans men can be every bit as awful as all other men, and they use the same methods to enact gender-specific violence against trans women as cis men. Within trans communities, i have seen the exact same tactics that “men’s right acitivists” and other antifeminist actors utilize in society at large, the same dogpiling and reversal of attacker and victim, the same accusations of hysteria and irrationality, the same reminders that we have stepped out of line and should now better shut up. I’ve lost access to support networks because of this, i have been systematically bullied out of trans spaces by dudes and you come here and justify the kind of shit that has played out on tumblr alredy.
Why would i not call you an antifeminist pick me when you act like that? “Insane amount of harassment transmasc accounts on tumblr went through”, what a load of bs. You’re full-on victim blaming.
I know this discourse (in general) can and has caused harassment and harm and I believe you, I’ve also seen it done with extreme virulence towards trans men and transmasculine nonbinary people, some of them close friends, so I think we have seen different things from different points of view and have strong feelings because of the consequences we’ve experienced.
I have seen TME/TMA discourse used, at least where I encountered it which is maybe not your experience, primarily as a way to recreate a separation, often a Trojan horse for arguments recycled from TERFism that divide trans people, as a thin veil for hatred towards trans masculine people, as a strange way of defining a in-group and an out-group. Not transmisogyny itself which is a very important and useful concept, but the practice of determining/assigning someone as “being exempt from”.
I have myself been in (online because I have essentially never heard or seen any of these things even remotely IRL) communities that I saw slowly twist themselves into toxic cults, and trans women are absolutely not immune from that kind of behavior. I have seen the behavior described first-hand, and things that can be described as “Baeddelism” (not that anyone uses that term to describe themselves now, it’s an after-the-fact broad concept to try and identify it and maybe it’s too vague or awkward, I just found it useful at the time), with the similar process of a small group that develops toxic relationships and abuse internally, grooming, and later veers into reactionary views that twist progressive concepts. Recycle terf ideas or some other kind of new essentialism, to create a shield against self-crit, to avoid seeing their own issues and things they need to deconstruct, and to dismiss the problems of others. I’ve been directly harmed by it, and I was also harmed when trying to defend trans masculine friends.
I have also, obviously, seen toxicity and harm, discrimination, harassment, etc. done by trans men. I’ve seen it fucking everywhere. I don’t like conflating the worse examples and cases with the actual content of ideas. I don’t like the TMA/TME terms and the way they are used. I’ve always found it gross for reasons I had a hard time describing, not with a particular hatred towards the people using it but with this feeling that something nasty was underneath. Not the terms in theory, but the consistent way I have seen them used, in practice. I have seen the harm inflicted to personal friends from trans women using that discourse as cover, and then the rest of their group closed ranks, let that shit slide, defended them.
I’m sure (really i’m not being snarky) you have similar experiences the other way around, given the way you seem to feel about it. That’s fair. I barely hung out on tumblr in the first place (for a brief period of time a year ago), I experienced a lot of more direct harm in discord communities, and tumblr is basically the only place I’ve seen it used since (also helps that I’m not in an anglo country). But I knew people more personally that were victims of it. I’m sure the harassment went both ways and was way more of a shitshow than I imagined. I’m relying on my own experiences in multiple toxic communities i’ve thankfully left.
I’m entirely willing to accept that a source I listed, the account you’re talking about for example, is “bad”. I just looked for people that explained it well at the time, text sources I could link to. I don’t know who they are and they’ve specifically done, I would be glad to have sources/examples of the behavior you’re describing from this account so I can see it myself and delete the source if it’s wrong/harmful/etc. From a quick look, they do not seem to be doing what you are accusing them of, they for example do no claim of “transmisandry”, they in fact specifically address a lot of common points on their main page (such as the fact that misandry isn’t real, which does not change the fact trans men are in their own particular intersection of discrimination, but none of the people I know use the word transmisandry).
Again I’m genuinely open to having my mind changed on this but at the moment it doesn’t feel like we’re talking about the thing or same people.
Regardless of validity of this account or other sources (which I will remove if they are actually bad, with specific examples because I can’t change my mind based on vague-posting), I still have issues with those terms, the way I’ve seen them used and the kind of ideology I’ve seen emerge from it. Granted, this isn’t really an important fight, I’m responding to insults about a post from a year ago, and since then I’ve realized that this is only a niche online thing anyway. There are much more harmful things happening and more important things to care about. I won’t insist if you do but I’m not gonna pretend I’ve changed my mind just from vague claims.
However, you cannot start and continue a conversation while throwing insults like these. I’m being patient and trying to be open-minded. You will delete and apologize for baseless insults and give me the same level of respect I’m giving you, or there’s no point discussing this further. “pick me” from fucking who? “self-hating antifeminist” is based on nothing but imagining what my position or intent is. the whole “wanting to hunt trans women for sport” is so fucking dumb, and genuinely hurtful coming from another trans woman, I don’t even know what to say. If you believe that why are you even talking to me? What exactly are you expecting from someone else when you engage in this way? Is insulting and harming someone else personally going to produce good results? You could have said the arguments were bad, the sources were bad, but seem to have made-up a horrible person in your mind that I now have to argue against. I am actually saddened by this and the insults, I thought a place like this was free from this kind of behavior, you’ve ruined my fucking day.
Edit: I’m also realizing who you are and what you posted here a year ago. I completely forgot about this and who commented. I genuinely don’t understand why you’re saying this now a year later, especially when I’m comparing it to what people (including you in this thread) were saying at the time. Again maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see it. If there is something really bad here I need something less vague, and some basic fucking respect and good faith. I would not take this shit from anyone if it wasn’t on a website that is generally pretty chill. Kinda hard to focus on the core arguments here when you’ve said things that would have made me burn bridges even with IRL friends.
Because i know better by now and i had to learn the hard way. I used to be … not as dismissive as you, but still dismissive of TMA / TME discourse and then the TME trans people i used to defend did what assimilationist queer people clinging to the most relative, limited privilege always do - pull up the ladder behind them. Can’t go into too much detail here without doxxing myself, but we had no choice but to cut ties and organize for ourselves. Because we are evil transbian seperatists. Or actually because they really, really hate women who get in their way and they live in a system that gives them the privilege to harm at least the women who are in the same community as them. Not the precious white cis women, but we are fair game. And they know that. And they use it to their advantage.
And no, this isn’t only a “niche online thing.” I mean, sure, the transmisogynist mobs on tumblr are part of the same systemic issue, but i am actually talking about my experience with irl communities here. And i know for a fact that our local scene isn’t alone in that. This is structural. It is systemic. It happens over and over again, because patriarchy supports and actively encourages behavior like singling out and dogpiling women who make a fuss. Silencing women is the entire point of discrediting TMA / TME discourse. A discourse, btw, which your linked post completely and entirely misrepresents to a point where i have to assume it is intentional. Because there is literally nothing in that enormous effortpost engaging with the actual substance of what TMA or TME means, zero understanding of core principles of intersectionality. Literally anything beyond the introductory “well ofc transmisogyny is real” disclaimer lip service is outlandish, exaggerated, distorted bullshit like “baeddels claim that all opression is a form of transmisogyny and that trans men do not suffer from transphobia” or similar cherrypicked out of context nonsense that in the few cases were it is sourced at all more than half of the time comes from total nobody accounts who do not even have more than the default placeholder PFPs. That’s what a hit piece looks like, girl. And that’s even before this dumb motherfucking loser shows his entire ass and reveals he cannot bear the fact that t4t doesn’t mean any of us will fuck him. Sorry, but no man is in a position to talk like that about “transbian seperatism”, making even trans spaces unsafe for us and then getting mad that we will band together with other trans women because literally anybody else treats us like shit is … well it is exactly what i expect from a man. Nice how that chauvinistic dung eater proves my point.
How are you buying into something like that? If you post that kid of stuff on my watch, yes, you will get called out and i am honestly worried that this was up for a year and nobody asked you wtf you have been thinking by linking to this horrible incel-adjacent rubbish.
I’m gonna try to keep ignoring the insults because i was genuinely hurt and confused, still am, and it is making it hard for me to be calm.
You seem to know a lot about this. I didn’t know much, I interacted with online communities that were very toxic in general and saw a lot of discourse, behaviors, etc. that rubbed me the wrong way in ways I couldn’t explain. I probably saw a small slice of things. I can’t read your mind or know where you’re coming from, you sort of have to clarify that before trying to bully someone else.
I was not deep into that discourse, I hated it and saw massive harassment campaigns, a lot of people hurt by it, and at the time someone I knew mentioned Baeddel stuff. I had not heard of it before, looked it up and thought “Oh this puts words on why I don’t like this discourse” and that was it. I relied more on the fact people i’m close to were being hurt and were all leaving communities because of it.
So I’m guessing there’s a lot of history or context you have that I don’t. Your message is still very vague to me because it references arguments I’ve not had/heard myself. Using the word baeddel is probably very loaded and bad, which I didn’t know. I can remove references to that. I’ll trust you (although i really shouldn’t i’m mad at myself for caving at verbal harm and trusting people who insult me, story of my life) that the source/account is bad. I have no time or energy these days (because this is from a year ago) to go back into that source in depth and focus on all of this. You’re probably right and it is probably misrepresenting things and being wrong, I had completely forgotten about all of this to be honest.
I believe what you’re talking about in your own communities. I have never seen it in mine, but again i’m not a native english speaker so anglo-internet brainworms don’t reach here as much. Someone can be misinformed, the person that linked me to this a year ago is someone I don’t talk to anymore and I have stopped interacting with anything that approaches this tma/tme discourse one way or the other. You gotta stop assuming other people have the same experiences as you.
I’m going to edit the comments. You are going to edit yours and apologize, and maybe reflect on the fact that insults like that towards strangers is an unhinged fucking thing to do. It is the opposite of useful, it made this whole process way harder because I had every reason to go “Oh an insane person is telling me i’m a bad trans woman and i want other trans women killed, on comments from a year ago, blocked” and move on with my day. “post that kid stuff on my watch” is also a weird thing to say, please. You don’t have to also bring condescension. People can be misinformed about specific things, and you’re not “on watch” of anything, this is a forum with conversations. I really hoped we’d left the “bullying works/i’m the most correct person and that’s all I need to insult others” reddit-ism behind.
Edit: I have edited my year-old comments, kept the original for clarity but clarified the issue with them as best I understand what you’re explaining. Let me know, calmly and respectfully, what you think.
I also want to say that I still dislike and distrust any usage of TMA/TME. My original gut feeling on hasn’t changed, but I’ll grant you the source I found to explain it is probably bad. I don’t hate people using it and I don’t wish anything done towards them. I just don’t like it on a fundamental level, and I don’t like the way it shapes thought, so i’m hoping people move past it. Maybe i’m wrong to dislike it and that can be another conversation! But I do dislike it, and it is probably not for the evil reasons you’re projecting onto me.
I’m not gonna apologize or edit anything when you call me unhinged for speaking up about transmisogyny and abusive behavior. I will make an effortpost explaining why we need TMA / TME discourse instead, this woman hating hellsite site clearly needs it.
Ok I tried. Good luck I guess. Disengage, go fuck yourself and never talk to me again.
Take out the “fucking insane”, it’s ableist
Seems to have been deleted so don’t know how to change it now