colossus-developers Mailing List for Colossus (Page 12)

On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 17:25:49 +0200,
   Clemens Katzer <lem...@sa...> wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>for everybody's information, the Hosted Apps feature will be removed in Sourceforge.
>As far as I see it, in Colossus this affects only our wiki page.

I saw discussion about that for the smartmontools project. They are looking 
at options for hosting their trac instance somewhere else.

Hello all,

for everybody's information, the Hosted Apps feature will be removed in Sourceforge.
As far as I see it, in Colossus this affects only our wiki page.

BR;
Clemens


-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 14:15:10 +0000
Von: "SourceForge.net Team" <no...@so...>
An: lem...@sa...
Betreff: Hosted Apps Retirement

In case you missed it ...

We wanted to be sure you were aware of some upcoming changes to the
SourceForge project hosting service.

One or more of your projects use the Hosted Apps service. On September 1,
2012, the Hosted Apps service will reach the end of its life and be shut
down. The reasons for this are discussed in the blog post, at
http://sourceforge.net/blog/hosted-apps-retirement/  and in the wiki, at
https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/community-docs/Hosted%20Apps%20Retirement/ 


Over the coming days, we'll be publishing more documents about how to
migrate your apps to your own project web space, so that none of your data
is lost in this transition. We want to be sure that your project can
continue to operate without interruption, so if you have any concerns,
difficulty with migration, or just want to chat, please send us a note
(com...@so...).

Please watch the wiki page
(https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/community-docs/Hosted%20Apps%20Retirement/)
for further updates about this process. We'll be back in touch as it gets
closer to the deadline, or if anything about the plan changes.

Thanks again for being part of the SourceForge community.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
SourceForge.net has made this mailing to you as a registered user of
the SourceForge.net site to convey important information regarding
your SourceForge.net account or your use of SourceForge.net services.

We make a small number of directed mailings to registered users each
year regarding their account or data, to help preserve the security of
their account or prevent loss of data or service access.

If you have concerns about this mailing please contact our Support
team per: http://sourceforge.net/support

On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Clemens <cl...@cl...> wrote:
> [I've been thinking about going for git and/or maven instead of svn +
> ant, and _that_ would be a drastic change, but I've not enough energy to
> do anything to it, so it's on the "maybe one day" pile. That's a big
> pile, you know ;-]

I'm still learning Git but the experience has been great.

The development of Eclipse is moving away from SVN to GIt, so I expect
support for Git to improve a lot in Eclipse.  Although I prefer
mSysGit because I get a bash shell without having to install cygwin!

The added benefit of Git is that people can provide pull requests and
it is much easier to integrate their code than it is with SVN and
patches.  This essentially lowers the barriers to contributions.

While I'm on the PMC for Maven and a big advocate, the structure of
Colossus doesn't lend itself well to being build by Maven yet.  It
really needs a restructure to pull things apart into nice
compartments, API, client, server, variants, etc.
Which in itself is a worthwhile task but is probably going to take a
bit of time.

So I'd recommend Git first, Maven second.

As an aside I'm seeing more people using Markdown
http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/ as way to capture
documentation.

> Turns out to be a problem with SVN and Tortoise,

Ah you use Tortoise to checkout but work within Eclipse?

I've made the experience that it works *way* better to do SVN stuff 
from inside Eclipse. Anyway, yes, I've also made the experience that 
every then and now it's a good idea to scrap whole work copy and check 
out from fresh...

Well good that it works now.


BR,
Clemens


On 2012-07-01 19:32, Norman Sillito wrote:
> Thanks David. That prompted me to investigate further. Turns out to 
> be
> a problem with SVN and Tortoise, needed to upgrade to the latest
> version. Tried everything to update, finally uninstalled everything 
> to
> do with SVN and reinstalled it. Delete a couple of spurious
> workspaces, created the repository and checked it out. Colossus
> finally showed up in the Package explorer window.
>
> FROM: David Partridge [mailto:re...@ro...]
> SENT: Saturday, June 30, 2012 6:23 PM
> TO: Norman Sillito; 'Colossus dev list'
> SUBJECT: Re: [Colossus-developers] User feedback (Tim Sowden)
>
> Hi Norman,
>
> I just went through this a few days ago in setting up a new computer.
> One thing that caused me
>
> problems was having used the wrong directory as the base of my
> checkout. Not sure that
>
> that's your issue, but it caused similar problems for me.
>
> You need to go to the Colossus directory under trunk to do the
> checkout. See the attached
>
> screenshot where ColossusRoot is defined as
> https;//colossus.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/colossus.
>
> BR
>
> Dave
>
> -------------------------
>
> FROM: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh... [1]>
> TO: 'Barrie Treloar' <bae...@gm... [2]>; 'Colossus dev list'
> <col...@li... [3]>
> SENT: Saturday, June 30, 2012 8:35 PM
> SUBJECT: Re: [Colossus-developers] User feedback (Tim Sowden)
>
> I have SVN and have downloaded the code, but I can't figure out how 
> to
> get
> Eclipses to open the project. I can open individual files but not the
> whole
> project. I've tried changing the working folder, but there doesn't
> seem to
> be an option to open the project so I can't run it etc. Any
> suggestions?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barrie Treloar [mailto:bae...@gm... [4]]
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 2:46 PM
> To: Colossus dev list
> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] User feedback (Tim Sowden)
>
> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 1:56 AM, John David Galt
> <jd...@di... [5]> wrote:
>> On 2012-06-30 01:10, Barrie Treloar wrote:
>>> On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 1:31 PM, John David Galt
>>> <jd...@di... [6]> wrote:
>>> [del]
>>>> Other wish list items for me:
>>> [del]
>>>
>>> Not to sound rude, but the best thing about open source is that you
>
>>> can contribute.
>>
>> I have yet to manage to get the code to download and compile. It
>> seems like every time I make the effort, somebody changes the tools
>> the project is using, shutting me out again.
>
> Then the documentation should be improved so that others don't get 
> the
> same
> problem as you. It is always helpful to get fresh people on the
> project for
> exactly this reason, to make sure that the getting started
> documentation is
> correct.
>
> Try again and mail the list any problems that you have so that we can
> get
> them fixed.
>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat
> landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will
> include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ 
> [7]
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li... [8]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers [9]
>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
> Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
> malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [10]
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li... [11]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers [12]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:nsi...@sh...
> [2] mailto:bae...@gm...
> [3] mailto:col...@li...
> [4] mailto:bae...@gm...
> [5] mailto:jd...@di...
> [6] mailto:jd...@di...
> [7] http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [8] mailto:Col...@li...
> [9] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [10] http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [11] mailto:Col...@li...
> [12] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

Thanks David. That prompted me to investigate further. Turns out to be a
problem with SVN and Tortoise, needed to upgrade to the latest version.
Tried everything to update, finally uninstalled everything to do with SVN
and reinstalled it. Delete a couple of spurious workspaces, created the
repository and checked it out. Colossus finally showed up in the Package
explorer window.

 

From: David Partridge [mailto:re...@ro...] 
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 6:23 PM
To: Norman Sillito; 'Colossus dev list'
Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] User feedback (Tim Sowden)

 

Hi Norman,

 

I just went through this a few days ago in setting up a new computer.  One
thing that caused me

problems was having used the wrong directory as the base of my checkout.
Not sure that

that's your issue, but it caused similar problems for me.  

 

You need to go to the Colossus directory under trunk to do the checkout.
See the attached 

screenshot where ColossusRoot is defined as
https;//colossus.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/colossus.

 

BR

Dave

 

  _____  

From: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh...>
To: 'Barrie Treloar' <bae...@gm...>; 'Colossus dev list'
<col...@li...> 
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] User feedback (Tim Sowden)


I have SVN and have downloaded the code, but I can't figure out how to get
Eclipses to open the project. I can open individual files but not the whole
project. I've tried changing the working folder, but there doesn't seem to
be an option to open the project so I can't run it etc. Any suggestions? 


-----Original Message-----
From: Barrie Treloar [mailto:bae...@gm...] 
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 2:46 PM
To: Colossus dev list
Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] User feedback (Tim Sowden)

On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 1:56 AM, John David Galt
<jd...@di...> wrote:
> On 2012-06-30 01:10, Barrie Treloar wrote:
>> On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 1:31 PM, John David Galt 
>> <jd...@di...> wrote:
>> [del]
>>> Other wish list items for me:
>> [del]
>>
>> Not to sound rude, but the best thing about open source is that you 
>> can contribute.
>
> I have yet to manage to get the code to download and compile.  It 
> seems like every time I make the effort, somebody changes the tools 
> the project is using, shutting me out again.

Then the documentation should be improved so that others don't get the same
problem as you.  It is always helpful to get fresh people on the project for
exactly this reason, to make sure that the getting started documentation is
correct.

Try again and mail the list any problems that you have so that we can get
them fixed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat
landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will
include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Colossus-developers mailing list
Col...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Colossus-developers mailing list
Col...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

> And provide a link to it in the "main" web page (the one with the 
> pink icon, you know ;-)

Above is a symptom of the core problem IMO: Not missing information, 
but it's impossible to find the useful information within the obsolete 
information. If somebody asks something, pretty often I could send him a 
link to a page telling a lot what might help, but I can clearly see why 
for that person it's kind of impossible to find it himself. Other than 
once reading systematically all the hundreds of pages that exist ;-)

So I personally would see the best cure in totally re-ramping up the 
whole website, using the possibly existing useful pieces of informations 
which are scattered and impossible to find. (But then, I tend to go for 
the all-or-nothing approach, which are usually the most laborous, 
instead of the smooth migration approach).

A friend of mine did once this for me:

http://www.cleka.net/example/

That stuff is in fact even in SVN; it's the "Website" folder, sibling 
of the "Colossus" folder:

D:\workspace\Colossus>svn ls  
https://colossus.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/colossus/trunk
Colossus/
Website/


It's just a sceleton; he knew "Epsilon" (nothing) about Colossus, thus 
the content of that page is a placeholder which might even be "wrong" 
for Colossus. He wrote that as from the point of view, what somebody 
knowing lot of other online games, might expect to find on a website for 
an online game. It would need to be reviewed and filled with true life.

I'd love to put that to some place, e.g. to my server, and add "real 
info there".

Alas, I don't think I will ever do it, at least unlikely to happen 
within next few months :-(

Anybody volunteering, I will arrange permissions that he can do it. 
(Well in fact, just modify SVN, and I arrange the "sync it to server").


BR;
Clemens


PS: no discussions on the chosen color scheme, please...  ;-)



On 2012-07-01 12:39, Clemens wrote:
>> I have SVN and have downloaded the code, but I can't figure out how
>> to get
>> Eclipses to open the project. I can open individual files but not 
>> the
>> whole
>> project.
>
> Sounds to me like you have just the SVN repo location defined but not
> yet checked out,
> can that be?
>
> I agree with Barrie, would be best to upate 
> documentation/instructions,
> I noticed the same when explaining to Dave that we who know it take a
> lot of things as granted/obvious.
>
>
> The Eclipse setup guide in our trac wiki which Peter did long ago 
> would
> perhaps be the best point to start.
>
> And provide a link to it in the "main" web page (the one with the 
> pink
> icon, you know ;-)
>
> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/
>
> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/EclipseSetup
>
> In that respect, that I did "personal consulting" for Dave few days 
> ago
> was basically the wrong way...
> but especially right now I am ...hmm.... not at my peek 
> performance...
>
> BR;
> Clemens
>
>
>
> On 2012-07-01 03:35, Norman Sillito wrote:
>> I have SVN and have downloaded the code, but I can't figure out how
>> to get
>> Eclipses to open the project. I can open individual files but not 
>> the
>> whole
>> project. I've tried changing the working folder, but there doesn't
>> seem to
>> be an option to open the project so I can't run it etc. Any
>> suggestions?
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Barrie Treloar [mailto:bae...@gm...]
>> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 2:46 PM
>> To: Colossus dev list
>> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] User feedback (Tim Sowden)
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 1:56 AM, John David Galt
>> <jd...@di...> wrote:
>>> On 2012-06-30 01:10, Barrie Treloar wrote:
>>>> On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 1:31 PM, John David Galt
>>>> <jd...@di...> wrote:
>>>> [del]
>>>>> Other wish list items for me:
>>>> [del]
>>>>
>>>> Not to sound rude, but the best thing about open source is that 
>>>> you
>>>> can contribute.
>>>
>>> I have yet to manage to get the code to download and compile.  It
>>> seems like every time I make the effort, somebody changes the tools
>>> the project is using, shutting me out again.
>>
>> Then the documentation should be improved so that others don't get
>> the same
>> problem as you.  It is always helpful to get fresh people on the
>> project for
>> exactly this reason, to make sure that the getting started
>> documentation is
>> correct.
>>
>> Try again and mail the list any problems that you have so that we 
>> can
>> get
>> them fixed.
>>
>>
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat
>> landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will
>> include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Colossus-developers mailing list
>> Col...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>> Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>> malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Colossus-developers mailing list
>> Col...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
>
>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. 
> Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in 
> malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

>> I have yet to manage to get the code to download and compile.  It 
>> seems like
>> every time I make the effort, somebody changes the tools the project 
>> is using,
>> shutting me out again.

Eh. Not so significant changes in Colossus "tools" in last 3 years 
which I am aware of.

[I've been thinking about going for git and/or maven instead of svn + 
ant, and _that_ would be a drastic change, but I've not enough energy to 
do anything to it, so it's on the "maybe one day" pile. That's a big 
pile, you know ;-]

Ok, new release of Eclipse every few months... and how to do SVN 
Checkout in Eclipse (and whether one has subclipse vs. subversive) that 
looks in every release a little different. I started with 3.2 and now 
when reinstalling my laptop got 3.7 (Indigo).

But it's not that one would be forced to use a particular release, nor 
has it to do with Colossus itself.


>>> Not to sound rude, but the best thing about open source is that you 
>>> can contribute.

In theory true, but unfortunately that might be for Colossus harder 
than most other open source projects. I feel kind of guilty that I have 
turned the code into such a complicated beast nobody aside of me is able 
to understand/modify any more :-(

At least so it feels from time to time...

BR,
Clemens


On 2012-07-01 00:45, Barrie Treloar wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 1:56 AM, John David Galt
> <jd...@di...> wrote:
>> On 2012-06-30 01:10, Barrie Treloar wrote:
>>> On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 1:31 PM, John David Galt
>>> <jd...@di...> wrote:
>>> [del]
>>>> Other wish list items for me:
>>> [del]
>>>
>>> Not to sound rude, but the best thing about open source is that you
>>> can contribute.
>>
>> I have yet to manage to get the code to download and compile.  It 
>> seems like
>> every time I make the effort, somebody changes the tools the project 
>> is using,
>> shutting me out again.
>
> Then the documentation should be improved so that others don't get 
> the
> same problem as you.  It is always helpful to get fresh people on the
> project for exactly this reason, to make sure that the getting 
> started
> documentation is correct.
>
> Try again and mail the list any problems that you have so that we can
> get them fixed.
>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. 
> Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in 
> malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

> I have SVN and have downloaded the code, but I can't figure out how 
> to get
> Eclipses to open the project. I can open individual files but not the 
> whole
> project.

Sounds to me like you have just the SVN repo location defined but not 
yet checked out,
can that be?

I agree with Barrie, would be best to upate documentation/instructions, 
I noticed the same when explaining to Dave that we who know it take a 
lot of things as granted/obvious.


The Eclipse setup guide in our trac wiki which Peter did long ago would 
perhaps be the best point to start.

And provide a link to it in the "main" web page (the one with the pink 
icon, you know ;-)

http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/

http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/EclipseSetup

In that respect, that I did "personal consulting" for Dave few days ago 
was basically the wrong way...
but especially right now I am ...hmm.... not at my peek performance...

BR;
Clemens



On 2012-07-01 03:35, Norman Sillito wrote:
> I have SVN and have downloaded the code, but I can't figure out how 
> to get
> Eclipses to open the project. I can open individual files but not the 
> whole
> project. I've tried changing the working folder, but there doesn't 
> seem to
> be an option to open the project so I can't run it etc. Any 
> suggestions?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barrie Treloar [mailto:bae...@gm...]
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 2:46 PM
> To: Colossus dev list
> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] User feedback (Tim Sowden)
>
> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 1:56 AM, John David Galt
> <jd...@di...> wrote:
>> On 2012-06-30 01:10, Barrie Treloar wrote:
>>> On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 1:31 PM, John David Galt
>>> <jd...@di...> wrote:
>>> [del]
>>>> Other wish list items for me:
>>> [del]
>>>
>>> Not to sound rude, but the best thing about open source is that you
>>> can contribute.
>>
>> I have yet to manage to get the code to download and compile.  It
>> seems like every time I make the effort, somebody changes the tools
>> the project is using, shutting me out again.
>
> Then the documentation should be improved so that others don't get 
> the same
> problem as you.  It is always helpful to get fresh people on the 
> project for
> exactly this reason, to make sure that the getting started 
> documentation is
> correct.
>
> Try again and mail the list any problems that you have so that we can 
> get
> them fixed.
>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
> threat
> landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
> will
> include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
>
>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. 
> Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in 
> malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 10:53 AM, David Partridge <re...@ro...> wrote:
> Hi Norman,
>
> I just went through this a few days ago in setting up a new computer.  One
> thing that caused me
> problems was having used the wrong directory as the base of my checkout.
>  Not sure that
> that's your issue, but it caused similar problems for me.
>
> You need to go to the Colossus directory under trunk to do the checkout.
>  See the attached
> screenshot where ColossusRoot is defined as
> https;//colossus.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/colossus.

Please provide patches/updates to the web pages.

There needs to be a minimal bootstrap process to get the code so that
from there the rest of the docs should be available within the
checkout.

The more fresh eyes get a chance to look at this, the easier it will
make it for other new contributors to get started.

I believe the bugs are even categorised so that if you don't have your
own burning itch you can pick one that has already been raised and
choose an "easy" one to start with.

Of course if the documentation isn't complete enough, please provide more !!!

Most of us are professional developers so we take a lot for granted.

If you need guides like:
* Checking out Colosssus
* How to build Colossus locally
* How to run Colossus locally
* etc...
And they don't exist and you learn these steps then please contribute
back, your hard work will help others and maybe they will get hacking
on solving some real problems faster too.

I have SVN and have downloaded the code, but I can't figure out how to get
Eclipses to open the project. I can open individual files but not the whole
project. I've tried changing the working folder, but there doesn't seem to
be an option to open the project so I can't run it etc. Any suggestions? 


-----Original Message-----
From: Barrie Treloar [mailto:bae...@gm...] 
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 2:46 PM
To: Colossus dev list
Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] User feedback (Tim Sowden)

On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 1:56 AM, John David Galt
<jd...@di...> wrote:
> On 2012-06-30 01:10, Barrie Treloar wrote:
>> On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 1:31 PM, John David Galt 
>> <jd...@di...> wrote:
>> [del]
>>> Other wish list items for me:
>> [del]
>>
>> Not to sound rude, but the best thing about open source is that you 
>> can contribute.
>
> I have yet to manage to get the code to download and compile.  It 
> seems like every time I make the effort, somebody changes the tools 
> the project is using, shutting me out again.

Then the documentation should be improved so that others don't get the same
problem as you.  It is always helpful to get fresh people on the project for
exactly this reason, to make sure that the getting started documentation is
correct.

Try again and mail the list any problems that you have so that we can get
them fixed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat
landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will
include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Colossus-developers mailing list
Col...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 1:56 AM, John David Galt
<jd...@di...> wrote:
> On 2012-06-30 01:10, Barrie Treloar wrote:
>> On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 1:31 PM, John David Galt
>> <jd...@di...> wrote:
>> [del]
>>> Other wish list items for me:
>> [del]
>>
>> Not to sound rude, but the best thing about open source is that you
>> can contribute.
>
> I have yet to manage to get the code to download and compile.  It seems like
> every time I make the effort, somebody changes the tools the project is using,
> shutting me out again.

Then the documentation should be improved so that others don't get the
same problem as you.  It is always helpful to get fresh people on the
project for exactly this reason, to make sure that the getting started
documentation is correct.

Try again and mail the list any problems that you have so that we can
get them fixed.

>>I still occasionally run into situations where it should be legal to 
>> click

On the masterboard? Amazing, I thought that was really bulletproof 
nowadays, haven't run into any case for long while. But then, I play so 
rarely.

-CLe.


On 2012-06-30 08:14, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 21:01:14 -0700,
>    John David Galt <jd...@di...> wrote:
>>
>>I still occasionally run into situations where it should be legal to 
>> click
>>on "Done" but the button is greyed out (but typing D still works).
>
> I do to, but I can't reliably reproduce them and also don't know that 
> it
> is really a colossus issue rather than a library or java issue.
>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. 
> Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in 
> malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 21:01:14 -0700,
   John David Galt <jd...@di...> wrote:
>
>I still occasionally run into situations where it should be legal to click
>on "Done" but the button is greyed out (but typing D still works).

I do to, but I can't reliably reproduce them and also don't know that it 
is really a colossus issue rather than a library or java issue.

On Jun 30, 2012 11:27 AM, "Bruno Wolff III" <br...@wo...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 22:49:26 -0400,
>   Tim Sowden <ts...@ai...> wrote:
> >They move and attack. Then I get my counter rolls. Once all the rolls
> >are done, regardless of whether anything got eliminated or not, I have
> >to hit Done to complete this counter strike phase. I am not sure why
> >since there is nothing more to do here. I can't tell you the number of
>
> You have the option to attempt to concede at this point. Again this is a
> case where you could anticipate you might want to do this and disable
> an auto function.

That's another good argument to not have forced strikes be automatic, since
you can also concede instead of opening up space in an enemy's legion.

John

> The biggest time saver I can think of occurs because players don't 
> realize it's still their turn on the masterboard and during battle.
> 
> This happens in the following cases:
> 
> 1) When you move on the Masterboard and you have battles to fight. After 
> resolving all battles the game won't move on to the Recruit phase (or 
> next players turn if there are no recruits coming) until you hit Done to 
> complete the battle phase. Many players don't realize they need to hit 
> Done to end the battle phase when there are no more battles remaining to 
> be fought. The game should just move on Auto-magically when there are no 
> battles left to fight. If a player is expecting recruits they generally 
> know it's still their turn but if they aren't recruiting they assume the 
> turn has passed.

I have wanted this for a long time.  Plus its corollary: if there is exactly
one engagement left to resolve on your turn, the game ought to auto-select
it without you having to click on it.

Other wish list items for me:

2) You also ought to be allowed to undo the "Done" at the end of movement if
you haven't begun an engagement yet (or if there are no engagements and you
either haven't recruited anything or have undone all recruits).  Of course
this can't apply if you have ended your entire turn.

3) I would like the option to "flag" one or more of my stacks, at any time
during my turn, so that the program will remind me to visit them during the
split phase of my next turn.  This corresponds to the common and very useful
practice of "splitting in advance" in face-to-face games.

4) I would like a key or menu selection that reverses the "Hide" button on
the "Show engagement results" window, thus showing it again.  (And the
window should stop appearing during game startup, when it has nothing to
say.)

> 2) In battle when I am the defending legion and it's my opponents phase. 
> They move and attack. Then I get my counter rolls. Once all the rolls 
> are done, regardless of whether anything got eliminated or not, I have 
> to hit Done to complete this counter strike phase. I am not sure why 
> since there is nothing more to do here. I can't tell you the number of 
> times I see the player sitting there not realizing they need to hit Done 
> to end the counter strike phase. Nothing is highlighted and nothing 
> indicates who should hit done. The games needs a big indicator (pop up 
> message maybe) telling the player to hit Done to move to the next phase 
> or it needs to auto move on to that players Move phase.

I have found that the Status window (which tells you whose game turn it is
and also whose battle turn it is) clarifies these situations immensely.

> There are probably a couple of others like this where there is no 
> indication of who still has the turn/phase unless you look closely at 
> your Done button to see if it can be clicked.

I still occasionally run into situations where it should be legal to click
on "Done" but the button is greyed out (but typing D still works).

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 22:49:26 -0400,
   Tim Sowden <ts...@ai...> wrote:
>be fought. The game should just move on Auto-magically when there are no
>battles left to fight. If a player is expecting recruits they generally
>know it's still their turn but if they aren't recruiting they assume the
>turn has passed.

The player has a chance to withdraw from the game at this point. Though this 
is a case where it makes sense to have a default not to concede, since you 
could disable this ahead of time if you think you might want to withdraw.

>They move and attack. Then I get my counter rolls. Once all the rolls
>are done, regardless of whether anything got eliminated or not, I have
>to hit Done to complete this counter strike phase. I am not sure why
>since there is nothing more to do here. I can't tell you the number of

You have the option to attempt to concede at this point. Again this is a 
case where you could anticipate you might want to do this and disable 
an auto function.

The biggest time saver I can think of occurs because players don't 
realize it's still their turn on the masterboard and during battle.

This happens in the following cases:

1) When you move on the Masterboard and you have battles to fight. After 
resolving all battles the game won't move on to the Recruit phase (or 
next players turn if there are no recruits coming) until you hit Done to 
complete the battle phase. Many players don't realize they need to hit 
Done to end the battle phase when there are no more battles remaining to 
be fought. The game should just move on Auto-magically when there are no 
battles left to fight. If a player is expecting recruits they generally 
know it's still their turn but if they aren't recruiting they assume the 
turn has passed.

2) In battle when I am the defending legion and it's my opponents phase. 
They move and attack. Then I get my counter rolls. Once all the rolls 
are done, regardless of whether anything got eliminated or not, I have 
to hit Done to complete this counter strike phase. I am not sure why 
since there is nothing more to do here. I can't tell you the number of 
times I see the player sitting there not realizing they need to hit Done 
to end the counter strike phase. Nothing is highlighted and nothing 
indicates who should hit done. The games needs a big indicator (pop up 
message maybe) telling the player to hit Done to move to the next phase 
or it needs to auto move on to that players Move phase.

There are probably a couple of others like this where there is no 
indication of who still has the turn/phase unless you look closely at 
your Done button to see if it can be clicked.

Lucky for me I play a lot of games with players I know so we end up 
texting 'Hit Done' to each other when this happens. But on a server with 
players you don't know you have no way to prod them that they just need 
to hit done.

Tim

>> Of course the suggestion was to change the default, not to remove the
>> option.
> Naturally. And I don't even mind. But it would impact only "new" users,
> not upgrading users. Although there is the small grey area of people
> playing with different names and game then behaving "strangely"
> (sometimes doing auto-XXX and sometimes not) - I bet 90% are not aware
> of the fact that Client preferences are player name dependently stored.
> (one of the 27 zillions of things I'd like to change)...
>
> But on the other hand: I think I would rather go the other way.
>
> The purpose why we talk about it, is to speed up things. Because some
> people are annoyed by some other people taking endless time for their
> actions. Honestly, I believe the time saving of auto-forced-strikes is
> marginally/neglectable. (Autopick recruiter and especially auto-recruit
> have 50 times more potential, IMHO).
>
> I think the more productive approach would be, to indeed introduce the
> possibility of time limits; this, together with sufficient information,
> would probably give people an incentive to take the advanced features
> (like auto strike and auto recruit and auto pick recruiter) into use.
>
> And it would split the server community into two fractions: those which
> want quick games and those which want to think in peace :)
>
> BR,
> Clemens
>
>
>
> On 2012-06-29 16:28, David Partridge wrote:
>> Okay, good points. Of course the suggestion was to change the
>> default,
>> not to remove
>> the option. Has anyone ever actually invoked the scenario below?
>> Doesn't really matter
>> much to me anyway, personally I'd put them on as the default, but if
>> the consensus is don't,
>> that's fine too. User's can always set their own options.
>>
>> -------------------------
>>   FROM: Clemens <cl...@cl...>
>>   TO: col...@li...
>>   SENT: Friday, June 29, 2012 7:43 AM
>>   SUBJECT: Re: [Colossus-developers] User feedback
>>
>>> Auto forced strikes can change the outsome of the strikes. Consider
>>> this:
>> As usual, somebody else can express the same facts with 1/3 of the
>> words than I do :-/
>>
>> -Cle.
>>
>> On 2012-06-29 14:06, Kim Milvang-Jensen wrote:
>>> Range strike is always optional, ther are rare cases where you might
>>> not want to use them
>>>
>>> Auto forced strikes can change the outsome of the strikes. Consider
>>> this:
>>>
>>> A B
>>> X Y
>>>
>>> If for some reason the player with XY does not want to kill A, he
>> can
>>> strike X->B first, which as i understand the rules is perfectly
>>> legal.
>>> Auto strikes will have Y kill B (assuming its low hp), and then auto
>>> force X to kill A.
>>>
>>> On 29/06/2012 12:52 "David Partridge" <re...@ro... [1]>
>> [1]
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> 1) auto forced strike, auto carry single, and auto rangestrike
>>>> single, should be checked by default.
>>>>
>>>>>> -- I agree completely with this. Can't see any reason not to be
>>>> using these, makes the game go faster.
>>>>
>>>>> The issue with this is that when you need to do these manually you
>>>> will be
>>>>> hosed because the strikes will happen before you can turn them
>> off.
>>>> But why would you ever need to do any of these three manually? They
>>>> are all forced actions, you
>>>> can't opt not to do them, and you can't change where they will be
>>>> done. Other than wanting to see
>>>> them happen as Tim mentioned. That's why the suggestion is not to
>>>> eliminate the options, just
>>>> change them from default off to default on.
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1] mailto:re...@ro... [2]
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>> Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>> malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Colossus-developers mailing list
>> Col...@li... [3]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers [4]
>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] mailto:re...@ro...
>> [2] mailto:re...@ro...
>> [3] mailto:Col...@li...
>> [4] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
>

> and/but an unpredictable amount of headache how to introduce that 
> while
> preserving compatibility between old and new version.

Actually I went wrong here. In this case there is [as far as I see 
right now] no compatibility issue, since the client does not even need 
to know whether the battle dice are normal or special, since it's the 
server side running on the public server doing that.

So the only thing is that older clients are not able to display to the 
user that a given proposed game will have special dice rolls.

Time limits, on the contrast, would involve such "client needs to 
know", or rather, need to be capable of acting accordingly; (in fact one 
could get paranoid and wonder, should the server enforce time limits, 
just in case somebody would play with a self-built manipulated client, 
but ....)

BR,
Clemens


On 2012-06-29 19:31, Clemens wrote:
> On 2012-06-29 16:35, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 14:19:29 +0300,
>>    Clemens <cl...@cl...> wrote:
>>>
>>>There are some who ask for it, because they are frustrated of always
>>>having bad rolls (or the other one always having extremely good
>>> rolls;
>>>really or just perceivedly... ;-)
>>>
>>>There are some who ask for it, so isn't that reason enough to make 
>>> it
>>>available optionally?
>>
>> In a world where there was infinite development time.
>
> That's too black and white, or rather, totally missing the point. ;-)
>
> It's not like there would be dev. time laying around and the question
> where to spread it ("onto this item or not?").
> As we know, it's "nothing happens, except for the stuff, where is on
> individual which might take the ball and do it".
>
> If Dave is interested to do it, fine. If not, we can add it to the
> "maybe one day" pile.... given the
> adding is still needed, I suspect it might be there already..........
>
> Colossus has been in that state for quite a while now. In theory I
> myself might in near future do "some things",
> but the definition of "near future" is rather unprecise in that
> context....
>
>
>> I don't think the people who ask for this realize it changes the 
>> game
>> a lot
>
> Might be true, but the best way to convince them would be to let them
> see/feel it.
>
>
>> (though perhaps not as much as some of the variants do).
>>
>>
>>>And it's minimum effort, not even big one.
>>
>> Certainly if you'd like to do it, it isn't going to break things to
>> have it
>> as an option.
>
> It's 1-2 hours to make it available locally, quite some more to have 
> it
> "in principle" on the public server,
> (let the WebClient GUI choose it and transfer it between WebClient 
> and
> WebServer),
>
> and/but an unpredictable amount of headache how to introduce that 
> while
> preserving compatibility
> between old and new version. At least as long as I am involved, and
> thus it'd better if I'd not
> be............
>
> Greetings from a strange universe. Oops, wrong planet, and so on....
>
> -Cle.
>
>
>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. 
> Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in 
> malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

> Of course the suggestion was to change the default, not to remove the 
> option.

Naturally. And I don't even mind. But it would impact only "new" users, 
not upgrading users. Although there is the small grey area of people 
playing with different names and game then behaving "strangely" 
(sometimes doing auto-XXX and sometimes not) - I bet 90% are not aware 
of the fact that Client preferences are player name dependently stored. 
(one of the 27 zillions of things I'd like to change)...

But on the other hand: I think I would rather go the other way.

The purpose why we talk about it, is to speed up things. Because some 
people are annoyed by some other people taking endless time for their 
actions. Honestly, I believe the time saving of auto-forced-strikes is 
marginally/neglectable. (Autopick recruiter and especially auto-recruit 
have 50 times more potential, IMHO).

I think the more productive approach would be, to indeed introduce the 
possibility of time limits; this, together with sufficient information, 
would probably give people an incentive to take the advanced features 
(like auto strike and auto recruit and auto pick recruiter) into use.

And it would split the server community into two fractions: those which 
want quick games and those which want to think in peace :)

BR,
Clemens



On 2012-06-29 16:28, David Partridge wrote:
> Okay, good points. Of course the suggestion was to change the 
> default,
> not to remove
> the option. Has anyone ever actually invoked the scenario below?
> Doesn't really matter
> much to me anyway, personally I'd put them on as the default, but if
> the consensus is don't,
> that's fine too. User's can always set their own options.
>
> -------------------------
>  FROM: Clemens <cl...@cl...>
>  TO: col...@li...
>  SENT: Friday, June 29, 2012 7:43 AM
>  SUBJECT: Re: [Colossus-developers] User feedback
>
>> Auto forced strikes can change the outsome of the strikes. Consider
>> this:
>
> As usual, somebody else can express the same facts with 1/3 of the
> words than I do :-/
>
> -Cle.
>
> On 2012-06-29 14:06, Kim Milvang-Jensen wrote:
>> Range strike is always optional, ther are rare cases where you might
>> not want to use them
>>
>> Auto forced strikes can change the outsome of the strikes. Consider
>> this:
>>
>> A B
>> X Y
>>
>> If for some reason the player with XY does not want to kill A, he
> can
>> strike X->B first, which as i understand the rules is perfectly
>> legal.
>> Auto strikes will have Y kill B (assuming its low hp), and then auto
>> force X to kill A.
>>
>> On 29/06/2012 12:52 "David Partridge" <re...@ro... [1]>
> [1]
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>> 1) auto forced strike, auto carry single, and auto rangestrike
>>> single, should be checked by default.
>>>
>>>>> -- I agree completely with this. Can't see any reason not to be
>>> using these, makes the game go faster.
>>>
>>>> The issue with this is that when you need to do these manually you
>>> will be
>>>> hosed because the strikes will happen before you can turn them
> off.
>>>
>>> But why would you ever need to do any of these three manually? They
>>> are all forced actions, you
>>> can't opt not to do them, and you can't change where they will be
>>> done. Other than wanting to see
>>> them happen as Tim mentioned. That's why the suggestion is not to
>>> eliminate the options, just
>>> change them from default off to default on.
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] mailto:re...@ro... [2]
>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
> Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
> malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li... [3]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers [4]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:re...@ro...
> [2] mailto:re...@ro...
> [3] mailto:Col...@li...
> [4] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

On 2012-06-29 16:35, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 14:19:29 +0300,
>    Clemens <cl...@cl...> wrote:
>>
>>There are some who ask for it, because they are frustrated of always
>>having bad rolls (or the other one always having extremely good 
>> rolls;
>>really or just perceivedly... ;-)
>>
>>There are some who ask for it, so isn't that reason enough to make it
>>available optionally?
>
> In a world where there was infinite development time.

That's too black and white, or rather, totally missing the point. ;-)

It's not like there would be dev. time laying around and the question 
where to spread it ("onto this item or not?").
As we know, it's "nothing happens, except for the stuff, where is on 
individual which might take the ball and do it".

If Dave is interested to do it, fine. If not, we can add it to the 
"maybe one day" pile.... given the
adding is still needed, I suspect it might be there already..........

Colossus has been in that state for quite a while now. In theory I 
myself might in near future do "some things",
but the definition of "near future" is rather unprecise in that 
context....


> I don't think the people who ask for this realize it changes the game 
> a lot

Might be true, but the best way to convince them would be to let them 
see/feel it.


> (though perhaps not as much as some of the variants do).
>
>
>>And it's minimum effort, not even big one.
>
> Certainly if you'd like to do it, it isn't going to break things to 
> have it
> as an option.

It's 1-2 hours to make it available locally, quite some more to have it 
"in principle" on the public server,
(let the WebClient GUI choose it and transfer it between WebClient and 
WebServer),

and/but an unpredictable amount of headache how to introduce that while 
preserving compatibility
between old and new version. At least as long as I am involved, and 
thus it'd better if I'd not
be............

Greetings from a strange universe. Oops, wrong planet, and so on....

-Cle.

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 14:19:29 +0300,
   Clemens <cl...@cl...> wrote:
>
>There are some who ask for it, because they are frustrated of always
>having bad rolls (or the other one always having extremely good rolls;
>really or just perceivedly... ;-)
>
>There are some who ask for it, so isn't that reason enough to make it
>available optionally?

In a world where there was infinite development time. I don't think the 
people who ask for this realize it changes the game a lot (though perhaps 
not as much as some of the variants do).


>And it's minimum effort, not even big one.

Certainly if you'd like to do it, it isn't going to break things to have it 
as an option.

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 06:28:28 -0700,
   David Partridge <re...@ro...> wrote:
>Okay, good points.  Of course the suggestion was to change the default, not to remove
>the option.  Has anyone ever actually invoked the scenario below?  Doesn't really matter
>much to me anyway, personally I'd put them on as the default, but if the consensus is don't,
>that's fine too.  User's can always set their own options.

The trouble with them being default is they fire before you know if you 
are going to need to manually override it. It would work to have an autofire 
button to hit displayed during the battle.

I lost a game to the AI because I shot a forced strike without thinking. I 
needed to keep an enemy piece from dying to block a route to my Titan and 
killed my soak off target before I realized what I should be doing. The AI 
got a piece on my Titan and finished it off. If I hadn't blundered I was 
likely to win the battle.

Okay, good points.  Of course the suggestion was to change the default, not to remove
the option.  Has anyone ever actually invoked the scenario below?  Doesn't really matter
much to me anyway, personally I'd put them on as the default, but if the consensus is don't,
that's fine too.  User's can always set their own options.


________________________________
 From: Clemens <cl...@cl...>
To: col...@li... 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] User feedback
 

> Auto forced strikes can change the outsome of the strikes. Consider
> this:

As usual, somebody else can express the same facts with 1/3 of the 
words than I do :-/

-Cle.


On 2012-06-29 14:06, Kim Milvang-Jensen wrote:
> Range strike is always optional, ther are rare cases where you might
> not want to use them
>
> Auto forced strikes can change the outsome of the strikes. Consider
> this:
>
> A B
>  X Y
>
> If for some reason the player with XY does not want to kill A, he can
> strike X->B first, which as i understand the rules is perfectly 
> legal.
> Auto strikes will have Y kill B (assuming its low hp), and then auto
> force X to kill A.
>
> On 29/06/2012 12:52 "David Partridge" <re...@ro...> [1]
> wrote:
>
>>>> 1) auto forced strike, auto carry single, and auto rangestrike
>> single, should be checked by default.
>>
>>>> -- I agree completely with this. Can't see any reason not to be
>> using these, makes the game go faster.
>>
>>> The issue with this is that when you need to do these manually you
>> will be
>>> hosed because the strikes will happen before you can turn them off.
>>
>> But why would you ever need to do any of these three manually? They
>> are all forced actions, you
>> can't opt not to do them, and you can't change where they will be
>> done. Other than wanting to see
>> them happen as Tim mentioned. That's why the suggestion is not to
>> eliminate the options, just
>> change them from default off to default on.
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:re...@ro...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Colossus-developers mailing list
Col...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

> Auto forced strikes can change the outsome of the strikes. Consider
> this:

As usual, somebody else can express the same facts with 1/3 of the 
words than I do :-/

-Cle.


On 2012-06-29 14:06, Kim Milvang-Jensen wrote:
> Range strike is always optional, ther are rare cases where you might
> not want to use them
>
> Auto forced strikes can change the outsome of the strikes. Consider
> this:
>
> A B
>  X Y
>
> If for some reason the player with XY does not want to kill A, he can
> strike X->B first, which as i understand the rules is perfectly 
> legal.
> Auto strikes will have Y kill B (assuming its low hp), and then auto
> force X to kill A.
>
> On 29/06/2012 12:52 "David Partridge" <re...@ro...> [1]
> wrote:
>
>>>> 1) auto forced strike, auto carry single, and auto rangestrike
>> single, should be checked by default.
>>
>>>> -- I agree completely with this. Can't see any reason not to be
>> using these, makes the game go faster.
>>
>>> The issue with this is that when you need to do these manually you
>> will be
>>> hosed because the strikes will happen before you can turn them off.
>>
>> But why would you ever need to do any of these three manually? They
>> are all forced actions, you
>> can't opt not to do them, and you can't change where they will be
>> done. Other than wanting to see
>> them happen as Tim mentioned. That's why the suggestion is not to
>> eliminate the options, just
>> change them from default off to default on.
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:re...@ro...

Range strike is always optional, ther are rare cases where you might not
want to use them

Auto forced strikes can change the outsome of the strikes. Consider
this:

A B
X Y

If for some reason the player with XY does not want to kill A, he can
strike X->B first, which as i understand the rules is perfectly legal.
Auto strikes will have Y kill B (assuming its low hp), and then auto
force X to kill A.

On 29/06/2012 12:52 "David Partridge" <re...@ro...> wrote:

> >>1) auto forced strike, auto carry single, and auto rangestrike
> >>single, should be checked by default.
> 
> 
> 
> >>-- I agree completely with this. Can't see any reason not to be
> >>using these, makes the game go faster.
> 
> >The issue with this is that when you need to do these manually you
> >will be
> >hosed because the strikes will happen before you can turn them off.
> 
> But why would you ever need to do any of these three manually? They
> are all forced actions, you
> 
> can't opt not to do them, and you can't change where they will be
> done. Other than wanting to see
> 
> them happen as Tim mentioned. That's why the suggestion is not to
> eliminate the options, just
> 
> change them from default off to default on.
>