colossus-developers Mailing List for Colossus (Page 10)

Yeah, lol, I don't even have access to the tracker link ;o) I'll go through the review first. I've seen a couple little differences in the way RecruitingSubTree and RecruitGraph answer similar questions. Happily, the only way to find them is to play, but that makes me want to go back into my AI code and educate him :oP
 
Anyway, here are the broad strokes:
 A Colossus session has one variant and multiple games (server + clients). The resources and custom recruitment are now instanced and available from Variant so are shared across all game instances in the session. The caretaker is per-game. Custom recruitment is per-variant. I think caretaker should be per-variant but didn't want to go there right now. I think it's simple and makes sense. Could just put it in the variant instead of the game. Everyone can get the variant. But I digress... :o)
TerrainRecruitLoader extends TerrainRecruitInfo which is available from Variant. I moved some data from VariantSupport into Variant and some into TerrainRecruitLoader and made TerrainRecruitLoader instance instead of static. TerrainRecruitInfo is now commonly passed to the GUI components for their resource needs.
public abstract class TerrainRecruitInfo
{
public abstract CreatureType getCreatureByName(String creature);
public abstract CustomRecruitment getCustomRecruitment(String name);
public abstract MasterBoardTerrain getTerrainById(String id);
public abstract List<AcquirableData> getAcquirablesList();
public abstract int getTitanImprovementValue();
public abstract int getTitanTeleportValue();
public abstract Collection<MasterBoardTerrain> getTerrains();
public abstract RecruitGraph getRecruitGraph();
public abstract CreatureType[] getStartingCreatures(MasterHex hex);
public abstract List<String> getDirectoriesList();
// Wrappers for getDirectoriesList()
public List<String> getDirectoriesList(String suffixPath)
public List<String> getImagesDirectoriesList()
public List<String> getBattlelandsDirectoriesList()
}Variant is available from Game and contains this data:
 
private final String name;
private final TerrainRecruitInfo terrainRecruitInfo;
private final AllCreatureType creatureTypes;
private final List<CreatureType> summonableCreatureTypes;
private final Properties markerNames;
private final MasterBoard masterBoard;
private final Document readme;
private final int maxPlayers;
private final String fileName;
private final String directory;
private CustomRecruitManager crm;
// created after variant
private IVariantHint hints;
 
CustomRecruitment was a challenge. Game now has GameEventListeners and broadcasts GameEvents. Only PhaseChange and PlayerChange right now, but I want to add ScoreChange for BalrogRecruitment to work correctly. I could probably have used the history events, but those don't always fire and I didn't want to disturb that code. The functionality can be merged easy enough, I just wanted to get the custom recruitment working ;o)
CustomRecruitManager (crm) has a reference to the variant and is referenced by RecruitGraph. You can get it as game.getVariant().getCustomRecruitManager(), but it goes through TerrainRecruitInfo to the RecruitGraph to get it. The CreatureLoader is passed a crm and calls through it to load a custom recruit. When the crm loads a custom recruit it loads the corresponding custom recruitment and adds the recruit to it. If the custom recruitment implements GameEventListener then it's added to the crm's list of listeners. The crm is a GameEventListener handling all of the Game instances in the session (listener is hooked up in Game constructor).
When a GameEvent arrives, the CustomRecruitment listener will act on the game included in the event (his caretaker). CRM will get 1 event per-game instance instead of trying to manage multiple games/caretakers with 1 handler. Let the server worry about keeping the games synchronized. If there was only 1 caretaker then crm would only listen to the GameServerSide for events.

The game seems to play the same. There are no static methods for resources anymore so I'm sure that all of the resource loading works with the new instanced data. I should profile the memory as it loads and unloads a variant and test it some more, but I'm pretty confident because of the kinds of errors I would be seeing and when I would be seeing them. Still, so many touches... Sorry about that :oP I'll have a diff soon.
 
thanx
 
cl

________________________________

From: Peter Becker <pe...@pe...>
To: col...@li... 
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] non-static resources



Hi Craig,

to commit to the repository one of the project admins will have to
      grant you access. In most OSS projects you start of submitting
      patches first (or pull requests in the case of GitHub and the
      like). I forgot how Colossus handled this, usually it should go
      either on this list or in a spot like this: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=1939&atid=301939

Clemens is probably the best person to tell you what is preferred.

If you send me the patch via PM I'm happy to have a look at the
      diff and give it a spin. I got some time to spare at the moment.

  Peter


On 26/10/2012 9:19 AM, Craig Lish wrote:
 
Do I have branch/commit access? I wouldn't think you would want just anyone to go stomping around in the code, but I've never dealt with opensource before... What's the process here? Should I just be creating a patch? I've touched quite a few files in moving the resources from static to instance (~125 -- it's not that bad, most is just getting access to the TerrainRecruitInfo which is just an interface to the TerrainRecruitLoader instance data). The resouces themselves are still cached by the static loader, but as long as there is no name conflict then that should coninue to work as it always has. The game runs fine and my unittest concurrency issues are gone, but I expect there may be another tweak or two forthcoming as I/you/we look it over. 
>
>cl  
> 
>
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Hi Craig,

to commit to the repository one of the project admins will have to grant 
you access. In most OSS projects you start of submitting patches first 
(or pull requests in the case of GitHub and the like). I forgot how 
Colossus handled this, usually it should go either on this list or in a 
spot like this: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=1939&atid=301939

Clemens is probably the best person to tell you what is preferred.

If you send me the patch via PM I'm happy to have a look at the diff and 
give it a spin. I got some time to spare at the moment.

   Peter


On 26/10/2012 9:19 AM, Craig Lish wrote:
> Do I have branch/commit access? I wouldn't think you would want just 
> anyone to go stomping around in the code, but I've never dealt with 
> opensource before... What's the process here? Should I just be 
> creating a patch? I've touched quite a few files in moving 
> the resources from static to instance (~125 -- it's not that bad, most 
> is just getting access to the TerrainRecruitInfo which is just an 
> interface to the TerrainRecruitLoader instance data). The resouces 
> themselves are still cached by the static loader, but as long as there 
> is no name conflict then that should coninue to work as it always 
> has. The game runs fine and my unittest concurrency issues are gone, 
> but I expect there may be another tweak or two forthcoming as I/you/we 
> look it over.
> cl
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

Do I have branch/commit access? I wouldn't think you would want just anyone to go stomping around in the code, but I've never dealt with opensource before... What's the process here? Should I just be creating a patch? I've touched quite a few files in moving the resources from static to instance (~125 -- it's not that bad, most is just getting access to the TerrainRecruitInfo which is just an interface to the TerrainRecruitLoader instance data). The resouces themselves are still cached by the static loader, but as long as there is no name conflict then that should coninue to work as it always has. The game runs fine and my unittest concurrency issues are gone, but I expect there may be another tweak or two forthcoming as I/you/we look it over.
 
cl

On 10/22/2012 04:21 PM, Peter Becker wrote:
> On 23/10/2012 12:38 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 22:05:28 +1000,
>>    Peter Becker <pe...@pe...> wrote:
>>>
>>> PS: sometimes I feel like separating the UI to a point where it would
>>> be possible to put an Android UI on top. I think Colossus would be
>>> nice on a tablet. But maybe I'm just dreaming :-) It would align
>>> nicely with the better functional testing, though.
>>
>> Titan is available for the iPad (using a different code base).
> Looks quite nice. I'm not going to buy an iPad for it, though. I'm not
> really the Apple kind of guy. :-)
>
> Given that this adaptation comes from Valley Games it might be better to
> stay away from the Android market. They might start caring otherwise.

Torben Sherwood from Valley Games told me several years ago that they 
were okay with Colossus.

Of course that was before they had an iPad app.  But we're not 
infringing on any of Valley's copyrights or trademarks, so I can't 
really see what grounds they'd have to complain about a theoretical 
Android port of Colossus.

-- 
David Ripton    dr...@ri...

On 23/10/2012 12:38 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 22:05:28 +1000,
>   Peter Becker <pe...@pe...> wrote:
>>
>> PS: sometimes I feel like separating the UI to a point where it would 
>> be possible to put an Android UI on top. I think Colossus would be 
>> nice on a tablet. But maybe I'm just dreaming :-) It would align 
>> nicely with the better functional testing, though.
>
> Titan is available for the iPad (using a different code base).
Looks quite nice. I'm not going to buy an iPad for it, though. I'm not 
really the Apple kind of guy. :-)

Given that this adaptation comes from Valley Games it might be better to 
stay away from the Android market. They might start caring otherwise.

    Peter

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:35 PM, Peter Becker <pe...@pe...> wrote:
> Hi Craig,
>
[del]
> active. You might say I share your odd passion for refactoring.

+1 to odd passions.

> PS: sometimes I feel like separating the UI to a point where it would be
> possible to put an Android UI on top. I think Colossus would be nice on a
> tablet. But maybe I'm just dreaming :-) It would align nicely with the
> better functional testing, though.

Ahh, I've dreamed those dreams too.
And TableTop sized touch screens for military sims.

I've ported Java version of Pandemic
(http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/30549/pandemic) to Android.
It was harder than I wanted.

The android UI model is better than the Swing/AWT one so you have to
break up more java code than you want.

And the Java version is just a dumb board, so the human has to do all the work.
But that makes it a much easier port.

Hi Craig,

I actually did some of that kind of work back in the days when I was 
more active. You might say I share your odd passion for refactoring. 
Cleaning up legacy code can be an interesting puzzle. Colossus code 
might look bad now, but it was actually much worse :-) In particular 
nearly everything was stringly typed, a lot of the game model didn't 
exist at all or was (even more) intertwined with the UI.

There were plans to go further and a lot of the comments you mention 
were probably written at that time. But as so often other things called 
and I moved on. The idea was to keep refactoring, though -- or at least 
as close to refactoring as you can get without a full test suite. 
Testing is probably still hard since the UI is still too clever. You 
could try robots, but I normally prefer the idea of a humble dialog 
since robots are too brittle.

One thing I must say, though: despite breaking Colossus a few times 
during my efforts I always felt my changes were very much welcomed. I 
don't think that attitude will have changed. While I am not actively 
developing anymore I am pretty sure everyone here will appreciate 
refactoring efforts. I can't exactly promise things, but I might be able 
to review patches if you want help. And I can do some play-testing as 
well if you want me to.

Regards,
   Peter


PS: sometimes I feel like separating the UI to a point where it would be 
possible to put an Android UI on top. I think Colossus would be nice on 
a tablet. But maybe I'm just dreaming :-) It would align nicely with the 
better functional testing, though.


On 22/10/2012 4:24 PM, tj...@in... wrote:
>
> Hi Craig.
>
> As you say, if it were quick and easy, it would have been done. Less 
> of a refactor, more of a rewrite...
>
> Good luck. If you manage to get a diff which refactors that stuff 
> without breaking everything, I'm sure we'd all be delighted to have a 
> kick at it.
>
> T
>
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From:
>     "Craig Lish" <c_...@ya...>
>
>     To:
>     "col...@li..."
>     <col...@li...>
>     Cc:
>
>     Sent:
>     Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:42:09 -0700 (PDT)
>     Subject:
>     [Colossus-developers] Colossus development
>
>
>     hi colossus devs :o)
>
>     My name is Craig (clish). I've been writing code professionally
>     for a couple decades and playing Titan for longer. Here's me
>     on linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/craiglish. I've been a fan
>     of Colossus since the beginning and have played it more than most
>     (I prefer Abyssal6, though the jungle imbalance saddens me). I've
>     corresponded with Clemens a while ago (hi cleka :o).
>
>     I had some time and needed to sharpen my skills for an interview
>     so finally dug into writing an AI that is variant agnostic. It's
>     coming along well enough (and I start the new job in a week ;o)
>     but I'm running into issues that are making me want to refactor
>     some of the core code. What's your process for change review,
>     branching, integration, etc? I've got eclipse talking to your
>     subversion repo. Nice project, btw. Setup was smooth and the code
>     is in better shape than some places I've worked ;o)
>
>     About the code, static reference issues are giving my tests grief
>     when I test multiple variants (I'm sure you know what I mean from
>     the comments in the code ;o). The biggest problem is the static
>     refrence to the Variant and the RecruitGraph. Game has a reference
>     to the Variant and is highly accessible so that's not difficult to
>     get around. The RecruitGraph is still important for "what can
>     recruiter recruit anywhere" type questions, so I'd add a reference
>     to it in Variant and cache it during creation. Most static
>     TerrainRecruitLoader references can be changed to TerrainSubTree
>     if you don't mind stepping around the comparison to graph code. I
>     think it's stable enough at this point to remove the checks (are
>     the checks just there for debugging?). I only see the warnings
>     when my Default test client collides with my Abyssal6
>     test client. Changing TerainRecruitLoader to instance data instead
>     of all static is work but easy enough, and I do love a good
>     refactor :oP (sadly, that's completely serious. refactoring code
>     is my favorite thing to do.)
>
>     One hitch in getting rid of the static TerrainRecruitLoader
>     references is the starting creature list, which seem to be by
>     terrain instead of by hex so this makes it easier. Is it fair to
>     count all anonymous (0 recruiter count) recruits in a tower
>     terrain as "start creatures"? If so we can simply switch to that
>     heuristic (and get rid of the unused isStartCreature(cr)).
>     Alternatives would be caching the strToStarters map from the
>     loader in the variant or adding a starters list to the terrain or
>     something. Could make a TowerTerrain extend MasterBoardTerrain
>     that contains the start creatures and do it at load time. That
>     would allow us to move all of the "is tower" logic into the
>     subclass and all of the teleport stuff would work organically --
>     oh, and it would know about starting creatures.
>
>     If the changes to get rid of the static references to
>     TerrainRecruitLoader were simple and small in scope then they
>     would have been made by now. I could check in all of my tests
>     running under the same variant and this wouldn't be an issue, but
>     I'm tenacious and it needs doing. Oh, I'll want to upgrade JUnit
>     and add Mockito. I'll have to either remove the "final" from
>     Client or add a PowerMock dependency (seems unnecessary,
>     especially once we get rid of the statics references). Could
>     change Client to interface and have the current implementation
>     implement it.
>
>     About the AI (in case you're curious), I'm currently calling it
>     CalculatingAI and, like I said, it's variant agnostic. It does
>     what you and I do when we play. I started at recruiting, which is
>     the core of the game. For a given legion I build a list of
>     potential recruits. For each potential recruit I determine the
>     shortest path to the best max and what the legion could recruit
>     next turn based on that recruit. Because all recruiting options
>     are not created equal I needed to come up with recruitment
>     weights for all recruiter/recruit combinations based on chances to
>     recruit/upgrade from each hex on the masterboard (I walk the board
>     once the variant is initialized). The calculations are mostly
>     voodoo, but it's able to choose the best recruit (based on my
>     extensive experience) in both Default and Abyssal6 without any
>     hints for all of the complex situations I've come up with. It
>     knows that a serpent is much harder to achieve in Abyssal6 than
>     in Default without being told. It'll recruit, for example, a lion
>     or third centaur based on path distance to max and its recruit
>     chances next turn and what those recruits might do for the legion,
>     but has no idea what a "Centaur" or a "Lion" is. Once it becomes
>     aware of other players I'll have it anticipate running out of
>     creatures which will change how it builds a recruit's path to max
>     and possibly decide to defensively hunt down and kill
>     the recruiters that might steal its valuable recruits (tell me you
>     don't do that ;o).
>
>     lol, apparantly I've been wanting to tell someone about this.
>
>     cl
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
>     Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
>     Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
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>     _______________________________________________
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>     Col...@li...
>     https://listssourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

	Hi Craig.

	 

	As you say, if it were quick and easy, it would have been done. Less
of a refactor, more of a rewrite...

	Good luck. If you manage to get a diff which refactors that stuff
without breaking everything, I'm sure we'd all be delighted to have a
kick at it.

	T 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Lish" 
To:"col...@li..." 
Cc:
Sent:Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:42:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:[Colossus-developers] Colossus development

 hi colossus devs :o)

 My name is Craig (clish). I've been writing code professionally for a
couple decades and playing Titan for longer. Here's me on linkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/craiglish. I've been a fan of Colossus
since the beginning and have played it more than most (I prefer
Abyssal6, though the jungle imbalance saddens me). I've corresponded
with Clemens a while ago (hi cleka :o).

 I had some time and needed to sharpen my skills for an interview so
finally dug into writing an AI that is variant agnostic. It's coming
along well enough (and I start the new job in a week ;o) but I'm
running into issues that are making me want to refactor some of the
core code. What's your process for change review, branching,
integration, etc? I've got eclipse talking to your subversion repo.
Nice project, btw. Setup was smooth and the code is in better shape
than some places I've worked ;o)
  
 About the code, static reference issues are giving my tests grief
when I test multiple variants (I'm sure you know what I mean from the
comments in the code ;o). The biggest problem is the static refrence
to the Variant and the RecruitGraph. Game has a reference to the
Variant and is highly accessible so that's not difficult to get
around. The RecruitGraph is still important for "what can
recruiter recruit anywhere" type questions, so I'd add a reference to
it in Variant and cache it during creation. Most static
TerrainRecruitLoader references can be changed to TerrainSubTree if
you don't mind stepping around the comparison to graph code. I think
it's stable enough at this point to remove the checks (are the checks
just there for debugging?). I only see the warnings when my
Default test client collides with my Abyssal6 test client. Changing
TerainRecruitLoader to instance data instead of all static is work but
easy enough, and I do love a good
 refactor :oP (sadly, that's completely serious. refactoring code is
my favorite thing to do.)

 One hitch in getting rid of the static TerrainRecruitLoader
references is the starting creature list, which seem to be by terrain
instead of by hex so this makes it easier. Is it fair to count all
anonymous (0 recruiter count) recruits in a tower terrain as "start
creatures"? If so we can simply switch to that heuristic (and get rid
of the unused isStartCreature(cr)). Alternatives would be caching
the strToStarters map from the loader in the variant or adding a
starters list to the terrain or something. Could make a TowerTerrain
extend MasterBoardTerrain that contains the start creatures and do it
at load time. That would allow us to move all of the "is tower" logic
into the subclass and all of the teleport stuff would work
organically -- oh, and it would know about starting creatures.

 If the changes to get rid of the static references to
TerrainRecruitLoader were simple and small in scope then they would
have been made by now. I could check in all of my tests running under
the same variant and this wouldn't be an issue, but I'm tenacious and
it needs doing. Oh, I'll want to upgrade JUnit and add Mockito. I'll
have to either remove the "final" from Client or add a PowerMock
dependency (seems unnecessary, especially once we get rid of the
statics references). Could change Client to interface and have the
current implementation implement it.

 About the AI (in case you're curious), I'm currently calling it
CalculatingAI and, like I said, it's variant agnostic. It does what
you and I do when we play. I started at recruiting, which is the core
of the game. For a given legion I build a list of potential recruits.
For each potential recruit I determine the shortest path to the best
max and what the legion could recruit next turn based on that recruit.
Because all recruiting options are not created equal I needed to come
up with recruitment weights for all recruiter/recruit combinations
based on chances to recruit/upgrade from each hex on the masterboard
(I walk the board once the variant is initialized). The calculations
are mostly voodoo, but it's able to choose the best recruit (based on
my extensive experience) in both Default and Abyssal6 without any
hints for all of the complex situations I've come up with. It knows
that a serpent is much harder to achieve in Abyssal6 than
 in Default without being told. It'll recruit, for example, a lion
or third centaur based on path distance to max and its recruit chances
next turn and what those recruits might do for the legion, but has no
idea what a "Centaur" or a "Lion" is. Once it becomes aware of other
players I'll have it anticipate running out of creatures which will
change how it builds a recruit's path to max and possibly decide to
defensively hunt down and kill the recruiters that might steal its
valuable recruits (tell me you don't do that ;o).

 lol, apparantly I've been wanting to tell someone about this.

 cl       

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
 Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
 Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
 http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct
 _______________________________________________
 Colossus-developers mailing list
 Col...@li...
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

hi colossus devs :o)

My name is Craig (clish). I've been writing code professionally for a couple decades and playing Titan for longer. Here's me on linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/craiglish. I've been a fan of Colossus since the beginning and have played it more than most (I prefer Abyssal6, though the jungle imbalance saddens me). I've corresponded with Clemens a while ago (hi cleka :o).

I had some time and needed to sharpen my skills for an interview so finally dug into writing an AI that is variant agnostic. It's coming along well enough (and I start the new job in a week ;o) but I'm running into issues that are making me want to refactor some of the core code. What's your process for change review, branching, integration, etc? I've got eclipse talking to your subversion repo. Nice project, btw. Setup was smooth and the code is in better shape than some places I've worked ;o)
 
About the code, static reference issues are giving my tests grief when I test multiple variants (I'm sure you know what I mean from the comments in the code ;o). The biggest problem is the static refrence to the Variant and the RecruitGraph. Game has a reference to the Variant and is highly accessible so that's not difficult to get around. The RecruitGraph is still important for "what can recruiter recruit anywhere" type questions, so I'd add a reference to it in Variant and cache it during creation. Most static TerrainRecruitLoader references can be changed to TerrainSubTree if you don't mind stepping around the comparison to graph code. I think it's stable enough at this point to remove the checks (are the checks just there for debugging?). I only see the warnings when my Default test client collides with my Abyssal6 test client. Changing TerainRecruitLoader to instance data instead of all static is work but easy enough, and I do love a good
 refactor :oP (sadly, that's completely serious. refactoring code is my favorite thing to do.)

One hitch in getting rid of the static TerrainRecruitLoader references is the starting creature list, which seem to be by terrain instead of by hex so this makes it easier. Is it fair to count all anonymous (0 recruiter count) recruits in a tower terrain as "start creatures"? If so we can simply switch to that heuristic (and get rid of the unused isStartCreature(cr)). Alternatives would be caching the strToStarters map from the loader in the variant or adding a starters list to the terrain or something. Could make a TowerTerrain extend MasterBoardTerrain that contains the start creatures and do it at load time. That would allow us to move all of the "is tower" logic into the subclass and all of the teleport stuff would work organically -- oh, and it would know about starting creatures.

If the changes to get rid of the static references to TerrainRecruitLoader were simple and small in scope then they would have been made by now. I could check in all of my tests running under the same variant and this wouldn't be an issue, but I'm tenacious and it needs doing. Oh, I'll want to upgrade JUnit and add Mockito. I'll have to either remove the "final" from Client or add a PowerMock dependency (seems unnecessary, especially once we get rid of the statics references). Could change Client to interface and have the current implementation implement it.

About the AI (in case you're curious), I'm currently calling it CalculatingAI and, like I said, it's variant agnostic. It does what you and I do when we play. I started at recruiting, which is the core of the game. For a given legion I build a list of potential recruits. For each potential recruit I determine the shortest path to the best max and what the legion could recruit next turn based on that recruit. Because all recruiting options are not created equal I needed to come up with recruitment weights for all recruiter/recruit combinations based on chances to recruit/upgrade from each hex on the masterboard (I walk the board once the variant is initialized). The calculations are mostly voodoo, but it's able to choose the best recruit (based on my extensive experience) in both Default and Abyssal6 without any hints for all of the complex situations I've come up with. It knows that a serpent is much harder to achieve in Abyssal6 than
 in Default without being told. It'll recruit, for example, a lion or third centaur based on path distance to max and its recruit chances next turn and what those recruits might do for the legion, but has no idea what a "Centaur" or a "Lion" is. Once it becomes aware of other players I'll have it anticipate running out of creatures which will change how it builds a recruit's path to max and possibly decide to defensively hunt down and kill the recruiters that might steal its valuable recruits (tell me you don't do that ;o).

lol, apparantly I've been wanting to tell someone about this.

cl       

On 2012-08-06 08:44, Norman Sillito wrote:
> Need to add instructions to the webpage for how to provide feedback 
> on the
> new BG12.

Sounds to me like a good idea!

-Cle.


> I've been playing a lot verses the computer. Primarily only gotten 
> Aphrodite
> and Apollo. The changes for those two are excellent. I have grown a 
> few of
> the others but so late in the end game that they haven't made much
> difference in the play. I'll try few computers and see if that make 
> the game
> last longer.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clemens Katzer [mailto:lem...@sa...]
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 1:12 PM
> To: John David Galt; col...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Apparent bug: can't start battle
>
>
>
> Works fine for me. Using normal official build (from web site), 
> loaded game;
> it presents me the "Do you want to flee?" dialog, and when I decline 
> I get
> the battle map (Jungle).
>
> It might be that the Flee dialog is somewhere off screen?
>
> You can delete or rename away the Colossus-server.cfg file in 
> .colossus/
> directory; that way the dialog should be presented centered on screen 
> again?
>
> BR,
> Clemens
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
>> Datum: Sat, 04 Aug 2012 12:41:45 -0700
>> Von: John David Galt <jd...@di...>
>> An: col...@li...
>> Betreff: [Colossus-developers] Apparent bug: can\'t start battle
>
>> In this game I've just been attacked by one of the computer players,
>> but the battleland refuses to appear on the screen, so I can't
>> continue with the game.
>>
>> I recently had my monitor die and had to start using a smaller one, 
>> so
>> it is possible that the battleland was created somewhere I can't see
>> it.  However, right clicking on the Colossus process on the menu bar
>> does not reveal the existence of such a window.
>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
> threat
> landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
> will
> include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
>
>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. 
> Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in 
> malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

Need to add instructions to the webpage for how to provide feedback on the
new BG12. 

I've been playing a lot verses the computer. Primarily only gotten Aphrodite
and Apollo. The changes for those two are excellent. I have grown a few of
the others but so late in the end game that they haven't made much
difference in the play. I'll try few computers and see if that make the game
last longer. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Clemens Katzer [mailto:lem...@sa...] 
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 1:12 PM
To: John David Galt; col...@li...
Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Apparent bug: can't start battle



Works fine for me. Using normal official build (from web site), loaded game;
it presents me the "Do you want to flee?" dialog, and when I decline I get
the battle map (Jungle).

It might be that the Flee dialog is somewhere off screen?

You can delete or rename away the Colossus-server.cfg file in .colossus/
directory; that way the dialog should be presented centered on screen again?

BR,
Clemens

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Sat, 04 Aug 2012 12:41:45 -0700
> Von: John David Galt <jd...@di...>
> An: col...@li...
> Betreff: [Colossus-developers] Apparent bug: can\'t start battle

> In this game I've just been attacked by one of the computer players, 
> but the battleland refuses to appear on the screen, so I can't 
> continue with the game.
> 
> I recently had my monitor die and had to start using a smaller one, so 
> it is possible that the battleland was created somewhere I can't see 
> it.  However, right clicking on the Colossus process on the menu bar 
> does not reveal the existence of such a window.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat
landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will
include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Colossus-developers mailing list
Col...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

I've had similar issues where if a screen was created in an area
viewable on a large monitor in the past, it will be created in a
non-visible area on a smaller monitor.

One workaround on windows is alt+space, M, which lets you move the
window with your keyboard until it's visible,

John

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Clemens Katzer
<lem...@sa...> wrote:
>
>
> Works fine for me. Using normal official build (from web site), loaded game;
> it presents me the "Do you want to flee?" dialog, and when I decline I get
> the battle map (Jungle).
>
> It might be that the Flee dialog is somewhere off screen?
>
> You can delete or rename away the Colossus-server.cfg file in
> .colossus/ directory; that way the dialog should be presented centered
> on screen again?
>
> BR,
> Clemens
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
>> Datum: Sat, 04 Aug 2012 12:41:45 -0700
>> Von: John David Galt <jd...@di...>
>> An: col...@li...
>> Betreff: [Colossus-developers] Apparent bug: can\'t start battle
>
>> In this game I've just been attacked by one of the computer players, but
>> the battleland
>> refuses to appear on the screen, so I can't continue with the game.
>>
>> I recently had my monitor die and had to start using a smaller one, so it
>> is possible
>> that the battleland was created somewhere I can't see it.  However, right
>> clicking on
>> the Colossus process on the menu bar does not reveal the existence of such
>> a window.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

Works fine for me. Using normal official build (from web site), loaded game;
it presents me the "Do you want to flee?" dialog, and when I decline I get
the battle map (Jungle).

It might be that the Flee dialog is somewhere off screen?

You can delete or rename away the Colossus-server.cfg file in 
.colossus/ directory; that way the dialog should be presented centered
on screen again?

BR,
Clemens

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Sat, 04 Aug 2012 12:41:45 -0700
> Von: John David Galt <jd...@di...>
> An: col...@li...
> Betreff: [Colossus-developers] Apparent bug: can\'t start battle

> In this game I've just been attacked by one of the computer players, but
> the battleland
> refuses to appear on the screen, so I can't continue with the game.
> 
> I recently had my monitor die and had to start using a smaller one, so it
> is possible
> that the battleland was created somewhere I can't see it.  However, right
> clicking on
> the Colossus process on the menu bar does not reveal the existence of such
> a window.

In this game I've just been attacked by one of the computer players, but the battleland
refuses to appear on the screen, so I can't continue with the game.

I recently had my monitor die and had to start using a smaller one, so it is possible
that the battleland was created somewhere I can't see it.  However, right clicking on
the Colossus process on the menu bar does not reveal the existence of such a window.

Strange. I connected two clients (admin and clemens) to test server and 
started a BeelzeGod12 build,
but the Variant Readme (Help => Show Variant Readme) does not contain 
the new text :-/

Actually in one it does in the other not...

*fiddles a while*

Ugh. That's nasty. I suspect the following happens:

If one runs the old (official) build and it reads the Variant info 
already during Game Setup dialog (because BeelzeGods variant is 
selected), then it caches that, and shows that old Readme even when one 
has started a game, connected to new server. (If selected variant is 
something else, say, Pantheon), then even old client shows new Readme in 
started game...

Critical question is: does it cache only the Readme or also everything 
else... (variant XML files) ?

So, contrary to what I said earlier: to be safe, one should test play 
BG12 with new server instance only with new Test Build.

=> it need to be resolved whether this caching has impact also on the 
real variant data (XML files),
otherwise there would be trouble with people still using "old" 13.2 but 
server running the one with new BG12...


BR;
Clemens



On 2012-07-11 18:19, David Partridge wrote:
> Tested the connection and it worked, so I've updated the info for the
> BG12 test version to include this.
> Dave
>
> -------------------------
>  FROM: Clemens <cl...@cl...>
>  TO: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh...>
> CC: David Partridge <re...@ro...>;
> col...@li...
>  SENT: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:57 AM
>  SUBJECT: [Colossus-developers] "Test Game Server" for BeelzeGods12
> testing
>
> Hello Norman and others,
>
>> Would it be a lot of work to create a BG12Test variant on the server
> if you
>> don't want to take away BG12.
>
> I realized it would be rather complicated and risky to have a
> production build running with both old and new variant built-in (*IF*
> that is what you meant ;-)
>
> Instead, I (re-)created a new server instance, and there is now
> running the Colossus.jar and ColossusWeb.jar which I built fresh from
> latest checkout (revision 5192). It is running on port 16766 (exactly
> 10.000 less than the usual one). See attached screenshot.
>
> So you and Zoro, for example, could play on that instance. All data
> (game nr, logs, statistics, user base, ...) is totally separated from
> the production environment, except that the user information is 
> cloned
> from there, as of ... dunno, 15 mins ago - so all who have account in
> real server can also try out new server. (But from now now user data
> will diverge - new users registered, or password changed, will only
> affect the instance in which it's done).
>
> Pro: almost no risk to impact the production service, playtesting 
> does
> not spoil the official stats
> Con: for playtesting BG12, you have to be connected to different
> server instance, thus are not in same chat as "all normal users".
>
> I hope it works; let me know if not...
>
> BR,
> Clemens
>
> On 2012-07-11 00:00, Norman Sillito wrote:
>> You said
>>
>> If they play locally, they will get new BG12 skill+power factors;
>> if they play with public server, BG12 will behave same as it was.
>>
>> I never thought about that until you mentioned it. I should have
> thought of
>> it. Thanks for pointing it out.
>>
>> I will have to host for Zoro and I.
>>
>> Would it be a lot of work to create a BG12Test variant on the server
> if you
>> don't want to take away BG12.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl... [1]]
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 1:34 PM
>> To: col...@li... [2]
>> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2012-07-10 22:51, David Partridge wrote:
>>> Hi Clemens,
>>>
>>> I like your page fine as well. My thought was that one of the
> problems
>>> with the old page was that so much stuff was off the page.
>>
>>> I tried to put everything on the page and just let the old stuff
> need
>>> scrolling.
>>
>> Ah, now I get it! Neat. Just not compatible^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
> intuitively
>> understandable for someone with a brain like mine....
>>
>>
>>> Doing it with a menu works as well, just requires
>>> that extra click to see some of the stuff, but the link is there so
> I
>>> think it handles the issue fine.
>>
>> it's "clearer" to me, an easy "what is what" structuring (navigation
> &
>> content).
>>
>> 4 similar, "equally important" boxes, it's like,
>> "HELP!", What's this" - have to look at all 4 because they all are
>> "same important" :~|
>>
>> Trying to squeeze all visible in one go might not be promising
> anyway;
>> I've heard there are still people who do not run 1680 x 1280 by
> default
>> :)
>>
>> [ well, hm ... just I tried it with 1024 x 768, actually I am
> surprised
>> it was "pretty usable" (not big difference compared to high
> resolution)
>> - indeed as you said, it rearranges it and just the less important
> parts
>> are initially out of sight. ]
>>
>> Well perhaps it's that I don't like scrolling much at all....
>>
>>> I'll make a few changes to your page (add links to tutorials
>>
>> ok, nice. On old page there was some "the readme is here" and "link
> to
>> more docs", where is that right now (in your layout) ?
>> In the approach with navigation it could perhaps be worked-in into
> the
>> index/navigation right away?
>>
>> I saw you added the link to building doc + Youtube. Good. I
> personally
>> would have wrapped more bla bla around it :)
>>
>>
>>> and building, try to make the main build more prominent) and update
>>> the site.
>>
>>> Everyone else can weigh in with any comments and I can update
>>> accordingly.
>>>
>>> The point of the Beelzebub icon was to get people's comments on the
>>> changes to that
>>> variant. I expect to make a few more changes in that as people try
> it
>>> out. If you want to merge it with the public testing build
>>
>> Might be good idea. Generally speaking, I _do_ see use for the
>> threesome
>> * official release,
>> * PTB ("soon to be released"), and
>> * "special build" (something bleeding edge)
>>
>> - we've used that scheme before, although the link for the special
>> build was only in wiki. ("warning, only for those who know what they
> are
>> doing...").
>>
>> But at the moment the BG12 build is kind of as stable as the PTB. So
> I
>> could make a new PTB with BG12 changes included. One thing we should
>> write somewhere, is the impact / compatibility issues. Lucily, in
> this
>> case, there's not much, but what people should now, is:
>>
>> If they play locally, they will get new BG12 skill+power factors;
>> if they play with public server, BG12 will behave same as it was.
>>
>> Otherwise somebody might be confused.
>>
>> That kind of more detailed info (and in future PTBs might be more
>> tricky), would clutter the banner too much.
>>
>> Or put there (upper right side) only a more flashy text (bold,
> bigger,
>> blinking, 3D-animated ;-))) , like: "Hey, new BeelzeGods12 variant
>> open for testing, give it a try!" and make that link redirect / make
> the
>> main "content" frame display detailed info (what's it about,
>> compatibility issues as mentioned, and icon to start it) ... ?
>>
>>
>>> and just note that we are looking for BG12 comments in the notes
> that
>>> works too.
>>
>>> I have no problems updating the page when the BG12 testing period
> is
>>> over.
>>
>> ok.
>>
>> BR,
>> Clemens
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> -------------------------
>>> FROM: Clemens <cl...@cl... [3]>
>>> TO: David Partridge <re...@ro... [4]>
>>> CC: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh... [5]>;
>>> col...@li... [6]
>>> SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:28 PM
>>> SUBJECT: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>>
>>> Wow, Dave, you put a lot of work into rearranging the main page!
>>>
>>> I like the test build to be also an icon - I remember long ago I
>>> tried
>>>
>>> something, to make a table and the PTB right-arranged (but on same
>>> height as the left side, not as it was until yesterday, in the line
>>> "below" the line on left side...) ... and just never got it
>>> working...
>>> For the PTB, I was thinking of the ColossusIcon with, like, split
> in
>>> 9
>>>
>>> small scares rearranged like a shifting puzzle, the one with
>>> different
>>>
>>> numbers is good, too!
>>>
>>> But I feel the official build should be more prominent than the two
>>> special ones (now they all three are "equally big", i.e. "equally
>>> meaningful to the user"). And/or, the test builds could be
> somewhere
>>> else on the page? Would get easier when there's navigation added
> ==>
>>> Read on.
>>>
>>> The whole page split into various blocks... I was somewhat puzzled
>>> when
>>> I saw it.
>>> <STORY>I was just telling to a friend, hey look at "my" page, and
> he
>>> typed some URL straight there, and I was like "Huuuh? Why is SF
>>> showing
>>> it this way when one uses THAT URL... until I realized its' the
> page
>>> it
>>> meant, the "looks different" is merely your reworking. </STORY>)
>>>
>>> I personally was ... overloaded by the many different frames, and
>>> then
>>>
>>> one has to scroll within most of the boxes ... Uh.
>>>
>>> I had something much more simple in mind, just a navigation. Fueled
>>> by
>>>
>>> that, I put *something* up which illustrates my idea:
>>>
>>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index-wn.html [7]
>>>
>>> ... but it's probably not ready to use as it is either. Just to
> demo.
>>>
>>> Also, making the 3rd build as own icon with BB icon... that feels
>>> funny
>>> to me, because that pre-pre-public testing build (or "alpha build")
>>> will
>>> not be BG12 related (or even exist) in future. So this nails down a
>>> "NOW
>>> STATE" to "our general central page" ... So referring to it as BG
> 12
>>> build... well, I just think in different timelines, I guess.
> (Dunno,
>>> do
>>> you get what I mean?)
>>>
>>> Well, perhaps it's ok, it's "that's how it is now", it just means,
>>> when
>>> the BG12 testing is over, someone has to update this page to remove
>>> "the
>>> BG12 build special stuff"... ;-)
>>>
>>> BR,
>>> Clemens
>>>
>>> On 2012-07-10 19:31, David Partridge wrote:
>>>> Hi Norman,
>>>>
>>>> I tried to distill the suggestions from the developer group and
> from
>>>> the users. The Variant Readme
>>>> was updated to have the new values for the Gods. Any suggestions
> or
>>>> comments please let me
>>>> know, I expect we'll go through a couple of iterations before we
>>>> reach
>>>> a stable point that at least
>>>> most of us think is an improvement.
>>>>
>>>> The page at colossus.sourceforge.net [1] has been updated so it
>>> should be
>>>> easy to download the
>>>> BG12 test version (click on the Beelzebub icon). I just tested it
>>> and
>>>> it worked fine for me. If
>>>> anyone has any issues please let me know.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------
>>>> FROM: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh... [8] [2]>
>>>> TO: 'Clemens' <cl...@cl... [9] [3]>; 'David Partridge'
>>>> <re...@ro... [10] [4]>
>>>> CC: col...@li... [11] [5]
>>>> SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:10 PM
>>>> SUBJECT: RE: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>>>
>>>> Wow, thanks Clemens. I've downloaded and played a couple of games
>>>> against 11
>>>> computer AIs.
>>>>
>>>> Haven't involved many of the gods so far but I'll let you know
> when
>>> I
>>>> have
>>>> some experience with them.
>>>>
>>>> I also made an announcement on the server and directed everyone to
>>>> the
>>>> webpage.
>>>>
>>>> The link below
>>>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [12]
>>>> didn't' work.
>>>>
>>>> An error has been encountered in accessing this page.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Server: colossus.sourceforge.net [1]
>>>> 2. URL path: /special-build/
>>>> 3. Error notes: NONE
>>>> 4. Error type: 403
>>>> 5. Request method: GET
>>>> 6. Request query string: NONE
>>>> 7. Time: 2012-07-10 16:08:06 UTC (1341936486)
>>>>
>>>> Reporting this problem: The problem you have encountered is with a
>>>> project
>>>> web site hosted by SourceForge.net [6] [2]. This issue should be
>>> reported
>>>> to the
>>>> SourceForge.net-hosted project (not to SourceForge.net).
>>>>
>>>> If this is a severe or recurring/persistent problem, please do one
>>> of
>>>> the
>>>> following, and provide the error text (numbered 1 through 7,
> above):
>>>>
>>>> Contact the project via their designated support resources.
>>>> Contact the project administrators of this project via email (see
>>>> the
>>>> upper right-hand corner of the Project Summary page for their
>>>> usernames) at
>>>> use...@us... [13] [7] [3]
>>>>
>>>> If you are a maintainer of this web content, please refer to the
>>> Site
>>>> Documentation regarding web services for further assistance.
>>>>
>>>> NOTE: As of 2008-10-23 directory index display has been disabled
> by
>>>> default.
>>>> This option may be re-enabled by the project by placing a file
> with
>>>> the name
>>>> ".htaccess" with this line:
>>>>
>>>> Options +Indexes
>>>>
>>>> However I found the link on the Colossus webpage that pointed to
> the
>>>> Public
>>>> Test Builds
>>>>
>>>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
> [14]
>>> [8]
>>>>
>>>> and the link at the bottom of the page. Zoro found it from my
>>>> directions so
>>>> hopefully we will be able to try it out between us.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl... [15] [9] [4]]
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:54 AM
>>>> To: David Partridge
>>>> Cc: col...@li... [16] [10] [5]
>>>> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>>>
>>>> Hello Dave,
>>>>
>>>> I have made a "special testing" build for the BG 12 stuff. But
>>>> contrary to
>>>> what you suggested, I uploaded it to
>>>>
>>>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [17] [11] [6]
>>>>
>>>> because that location already existed, and I was not willing to
>>>> fiddle
>>>> with
>>>> the "how to get another new jnlp file working" today...
>>>>
>>>> I added link to it also in main web page (link to RecentChanges...
>>>> doc
>>>> removed since I did neither update, nor upload that one).
>>>>
>>>> BTW, this also includes a temporary fix for the "Can't connect to
>>>> socket" error you encountered.
>>>>
>>>> (And I realized why I didn't get that error earlier - I had stored
>>> an
>>>> option "do not stop accepting clients" as true in my local
>>>> Colossus-server.cfg, and due to that I didn't notice it when the
>>>> change
>>>> with the internal spectator client broke things. So that needs
> some
>>>> cleanup... one more lesson of the category "how to fool
>>> yourself...")
>>>>
>>>> BR,
>>>> Clemens
>>>>
>>>> On 2012-07-09 08:17, David Partridge wrote:
>>>>> Hi Clemens,
>>>>>
>>>>> I've committed the changes for the Beelzebub12Gods testing build.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you please make the version and put it in the
>>>>> Beelzebub12Gods-testing directory.
>>>>>
>>>>> After you do that I'll put up a new page for
>>>>> colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [7] that has
>>>>> an icon for that and puts things into frames for better
>>>> accessibility
>>>>> and readability.
>>>>>
>>>>> BR
>>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>>> Discussions
>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>>> malware
>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [18]
>>> [12]
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Colossus-developers mailing list
>>>> Col...@li... [19] [13] [8]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [20]
>>> [14] [9]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Links:
>>>> ------
>>>> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/ [21] [15]
>>>> [2] http://sourceforge.net/ [22] [16]
>>>> [3] mailto:use...@us... [23] [17]
>>>> [4] mailto:cl...@cl... [24] [18]
>>>> [5] mailto:col...@li... [25] [19]
>>>> [6] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [26] [20]
>>>> [7] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [27] [21]
>>>> [8] mailto:Col...@li... [28] [22]
>>>> [9]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers [29]
>>> [23]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/ [30]
>>> [2] mailto:nsi...@sh... [31]
>>> [3] mailto:cl...@cl... [32]
>>> [4] mailto:re...@ro... [33]
>>> [5] mailto:col...@li... [34]
>>> [6] http://sourceforge.net/ [35]
>>> [7] mailto:use...@us... [36]
>>> [8]
> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild 
> [37]
>>> [9] mailto:cl...@cl... [38]
>>> [10] mailto:col...@li... [39]
>>> [11] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [40]
>>> [12] http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ [41]
>>> [13] mailto:Col...@li... [42]
>>> [14]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers [43]
>>> [15] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/ [44]
>>> [16] http://sourceforge.net/ [45]
>>> [17] mailto:use...@us... [46]
>>> [18] mailto:cl...@cl... [47]
>>> [19] mailto:col...@li... [48]
>>> [20] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [49]
>>> [21] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [50]
>>> [22] mailto:Col...@li... [51]
>>> [23]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers [52]
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
> Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
> malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [53]
>> _______________________________________________
>> Colossus-developers mailing list
>> Col...@li... [54]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [55]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [2] mailto:col...@li...
> [3] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [4] mailto:re...@ro...
> [5] mailto:nsi...@sh...
> [6] mailto:col...@li...
> [7] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index-wn.html
> [8] mailto:nsi...@sh...
> [9] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [10] mailto:re...@ro...
> [11] mailto:col...@li...
> [12] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [13] mailto:use...@us...
> [14] 
> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
> [15] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [16] mailto:col...@li...
> [17] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [18] http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [19] mailto:Col...@li...
> [20] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [21] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
> [22] http://sourceforge.net/
> [23] mailto:use...@us...
> [24] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [25] mailto:col...@li...
> [26] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [27] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html
> [28] mailto:Col...@li...
> [29] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [30] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
> [31] mailto:nsi...@sh...
> [32] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [33] mailto:re...@ro...
> [34] mailto:col...@li...
> [35] http://sourceforge.net/
> [36] mailto:use...@us...
> [37] 
> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
> [38] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [39] mailto:col...@li...
> [40] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [41] http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [42] mailto:Col...@li...
> [43] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [44] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
> [45] http://sourceforge.net/
> [46] mailto:use...@us...
> [47] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [48] mailto:col...@li...
> [49] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [50] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html
> [51] mailto:Col...@li...
> [52] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [53] http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [54] mailto:Col...@li...
> [55] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

Tested the connection and it worked, so I've updated the info for the BG12 test version to include this.
Dave


________________________________
 From: Clemens <cl...@cl...>
To: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh...> 
Cc: David Partridge <re...@ro...>; col...@li... 
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:57 AM
Subject: [Colossus-developers] "Test Game Server" for BeelzeGods12 testing
 


Hello Norman and others,

> Would it be a lot of work to create a BG12Test variant on the server if you
> don't want to take away BG12.

I realized it would be rather complicated and risky to have a production build running with both old and new variant built-in (*IF* that is what you meant ;-)


Instead, I (re-)created a new server instance, and there is now running the Colossus.jar and ColossusWeb.jar which I built fresh from latest checkout (revision 5192). It is running on port 16766 (exactly 10.000 less than the usual one). See attached screenshot.

So you and Zoro, for example, could play on that instance. All data (game nr, logs, statistics, user base, ...) is totally separated from the production environment, except that the user information is cloned from there, as of ... dunno, 15 mins ago - so all who have account in real server can also try out new server. (But from now now user data will diverge - new users registered, or password changed, will only affect the instance in which it's done).


Pro: almost no risk to impact the production service, playtesting does not spoil the official stats
Con: for playtesting BG12, you have to be connected to different server instance, thus are not in same chat as "all normal users".

I hope it works; let me know if not...


BR,
Clemens




On 2012-07-11 00:00, Norman Sillito wrote:
> You said
> 
> If they play locally, they will get new BG12 skill+power factors;
> if they play with public server, BG12 will behave same as it was.
> 
> I never thought about that until you mentioned it. I should have thought of
> it. Thanks for pointing it out.
> 
> I will have to host for Zoro and I.
> 
> Would it be a lot of work to create a BG12Test variant on the server if you
> don't want to take away BG12.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl...]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 1:34 PM
> To: col...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
> 
> 
> 
> On 2012-07-10 22:51, David Partridge wrote:
>> Hi Clemens,
>> 
>> I like your page fine as well. My thought was that one of the problems
>> with the old page was that so much stuff was off the page.
> 
>> I tried to put everything on the page and just let the old stuff need
>> scrolling.
> 
> Ah, now I get it!  Neat.  Just not compatible^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H intuitively
> understandable for someone with a brain like mine....
> 
> 
>> Doing it with a menu works as well, just requires
>> that extra click to see some of the stuff, but the link is there so I
>> think it handles the issue fine.
> 
> it's "clearer" to me, an easy "what is what" structuring (navigation &
> content).
> 
> 4 similar, "equally important" boxes, it's like,
> "HELP!", What's this" - have to look at all 4 because they all are
> "same important" :~|
> 
> Trying to squeeze all visible in one go might not be promising anyway;
> I've heard there are still people who do not run 1680 x 1280 by default
> :)
> 
> [ well, hm ... just I tried it with 1024 x 768, actually I am surprised
> it was "pretty usable" (not big difference compared to high resolution)
> - indeed as you said, it rearranges it and just the less important parts
> are initially out of sight. ]
> 
> Well perhaps it's that I don't like scrolling much at all....
> 
>> I'll make a few changes to your page (add links to tutorials
> 
> ok, nice. On old page there was some "the readme is here" and "link to
> more docs", where is that right now (in your layout) ?
> In the approach with navigation it could perhaps be worked-in into the
> index/navigation right away?
> 
> I saw you added the link to building doc + Youtube. Good. I personally
> would have wrapped more bla bla around it :)
> 
> 
>> and building, try to make the main build more prominent) and update
>> the site.
> 
>> Everyone else can weigh in with any comments and I can update
>> accordingly.
>> 
>> The point of the Beelzebub icon was to get people's comments on the
>> changes to that
>> variant. I expect to make a few more changes in that as people try it
>> out. If you want to merge it with the public testing build
> 
> Might be good idea. Generally speaking, I _do_ see use for the
> threesome
> * official release,
> * PTB ("soon to be released"), and
> * "special build" (something bleeding edge)
> 
> - we've used that scheme before, although the link for the special
> build was only in wiki. ("warning, only for those who know what they are
> doing...").
> 
> But at the moment the BG12 build is kind of as stable as the PTB. So I
> could make a new PTB with BG12 changes included. One thing we should
> write somewhere, is the impact / compatibility issues. Lucily, in this
> case, there's not much, but what people should now, is:
> 
> If they play locally, they will get new BG12 skill+power factors;
> if they play with public server, BG12 will behave same as it was.
> 
> Otherwise somebody might be confused.
> 
> That kind of more detailed info (and in future PTBs might be more
> tricky), would clutter the banner too much.
> 
> Or put there (upper right side) only a more flashy text (bold, bigger,
> blinking, 3D-animated  ;-)))  , like: "Hey, new BeelzeGods12 variant
> open for testing, give it a try!" and make that link redirect / make the
> main "content" frame display detailed info (what's it about,
> compatibility issues as mentioned, and icon to start it) ... ?
> 
> 
>> and just note that we are looking for BG12 comments in the notes that
>> works too.
> 
>> I have no problems updating the page when the BG12 testing period is
>> over.
> 
> ok.
> 
> BR,
> Clemens
> 
> 
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> -------------------------
>>  FROM: Clemens <cl...@cl...>
>>  TO: David Partridge <re...@ro...>
>> CC: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh...>;
>> col...@li...
>>  SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:28 PM
>>  SUBJECT: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>> 
>> Wow, Dave, you put a lot of work into rearranging the main page!
>> 
>> I like the test build to be also an icon - I remember long ago I
>> tried
>> 
>> something, to make a table and the PTB right-arranged (but on same
>> height as the left side, not as it was until yesterday, in the line
>> "below" the line on left side...) ... and just never got it
>> working...
>> For the PTB, I was thinking of the ColossusIcon with, like, split in
>> 9
>> 
>> small scares rearranged like a shifting puzzle, the one with
>> different
>> 
>> numbers is good, too!
>> 
>> But I feel the official build should be more prominent than the two
>> special ones (now they all three are "equally big", i.e. "equally
>> meaningful to the user"). And/or, the test builds could be somewhere
>> else on the page? Would get easier when there's navigation added ==>
>> Read on.
>> 
>> The whole page split into various blocks... I was somewhat puzzled
>> when
>> I saw it.
>> <STORY>I was just telling to a friend, hey look at "my" page, and he
>> typed some URL straight there, and I was like "Huuuh? Why is SF
>> showing
>> it this way when one uses THAT URL... until I realized its' the page
>> it
>> meant, the "looks different" is merely your reworking. </STORY>)
>> 
>> I personally was ... overloaded by the many different frames, and
>> then
>> 
>> one has to scroll within most of the boxes ... Uh.
>> 
>> I had something much more simple in mind, just a navigation. Fueled
>> by
>> 
>> that, I put *something* up which illustrates my idea:
>> 
>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index-wn.html
>> 
>> ... but it's probably not ready to use as it is either. Just to demo.
>> 
>> Also, making the 3rd build as own icon with BB icon... that feels
>> funny
>> to me, because that pre-pre-public testing build (or "alpha build")
>> will
>> not be BG12 related (or even exist) in future. So this nails down a
>> "NOW
>> STATE" to "our general central page" ... So referring to it as BG 12
>> build... well, I just think in different timelines, I guess. (Dunno,
>> do
>> you get what I mean?)
>> 
>> Well, perhaps it's ok, it's "that's how it is now", it just means,
>> when
>> the BG12 testing is over, someone has to update this page to remove
>> "the
>> BG12 build special stuff"... ;-)
>> 
>> BR,
>> Clemens
>> 
>> On 2012-07-10 19:31, David Partridge wrote:
>>> Hi Norman,
>>> 
>>> I tried to distill the suggestions from the developer group and from
>>> the users. The Variant Readme
>>> was updated to have the new values for the Gods. Any suggestions or
>>> comments please let me
>>> know, I expect we'll go through a couple of iterations before we
>>> reach
>>> a stable point that at least
>>> most of us think is an improvement.
>>> 
>>> The page at colossus.sourceforge.net [1] has been updated so it
>> should be
>>> easy to download the
>>> BG12 test version (click on the Beelzebub icon). I just tested it
>> and
>>> it worked fine for me. If
>>> anyone has any issues please let me know.
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> -------------------------
>>> FROM: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh... [2]>
>>> TO: 'Clemens' <cl...@cl... [3]>; 'David Partridge'
>>> <re...@ro... [4]>
>>> CC: col...@li... [5]
>>> SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:10 PM
>>> SUBJECT: RE: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>> 
>>> Wow, thanks Clemens. I've downloaded and played a couple of games
>>> against 11
>>> computer AIs.
>>> 
>>> Haven't involved many of the gods so far but I'll let you know when
>> I
>>> have
>>> some experience with them.
>>> 
>>> I also made an announcement on the server and directed everyone to
>>> the
>>> webpage.
>>> 
>>> The link below
>>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
>>> didn't' work.
>>> 
>>> An error has been encountered in accessing this page.
>>> 
>>> 1. Server: colossus.sourceforge.net [1]
>>> 2. URL path: /special-build/
>>> 3. Error notes: NONE
>>> 4. Error type: 403
>>> 5. Request method: GET
>>> 6. Request query string: NONE
>>> 7. Time: 2012-07-10 16:08:06 UTC (1341936486)
>>> 
>>> Reporting this problem: The problem you have encountered is with a
>>> project
>>> web site hosted by SourceForge.net [6] [2]. This issue should be
>> reported
>>> to the
>>> SourceForge.net-hosted project (not to SourceForge.net).
>>> 
>>> If this is a severe or recurring/persistent problem, please do one
>> of
>>> the
>>> following, and provide the error text (numbered 1 through 7, above):
>>> 
>>> Contact the project via their designated support resources.
>>> Contact the project administrators of this project via email (see
>>> the
>>> upper right-hand corner of the Project Summary page for their
>>> usernames) at
>>> use...@us... [7] [3]
>>> 
>>> If you are a maintainer of this web content, please refer to the
>> Site
>>> Documentation regarding web services for further assistance.
>>> 
>>> NOTE: As of 2008-10-23 directory index display has been disabled by
>>> default.
>>> This option may be re-enabled by the project by placing a file with
>>> the name
>>> ".htaccess" with this line:
>>> 
>>> Options +Indexes
>>> 
>>> However I found the link on the Colossus webpage that pointed to the
>>> Public
>>> Test Builds
>>> 
>>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
>> [8]
>>> 
>>> and the link at the bottom of the page. Zoro found it from my
>>> directions so
>>> hopefully we will be able to try it out between us.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl... [9] [4]]
>>> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:54 AM
>>> To: David Partridge
>>> Cc: col...@li... [10] [5]
>>> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>> 
>>> Hello Dave,
>>> 
>>> I have made a "special testing" build for the BG 12 stuff. But
>>> contrary to
>>> what you suggested, I uploaded it to
>>> 
>>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [11] [6]
>>> 
>>> because that location already existed, and I was not willing to
>>> fiddle
>>> with
>>> the "how to get another new jnlp file working" today...
>>> 
>>> I added link to it also in main web page (link to RecentChanges...
>>> doc
>>> removed since I did neither update, nor upload that one).
>>> 
>>> BTW, this also includes a temporary fix for the "Can't connect to
>>> socket" error you encountered.
>>> 
>>> (And I realized why I didn't get that error earlier - I had stored
>> an
>>> option "do not stop accepting clients" as true in my local
>>> Colossus-server.cfg, and due to that I didn't notice it when the
>>> change
>>> with the internal spectator client broke things. So that needs some
>>> cleanup... one more lesson of the category "how to fool
>> yourself...")
>>> 
>>> BR,
>>> Clemens
>>> 
>>> On 2012-07-09 08:17, David Partridge wrote:
>>>> Hi Clemens,
>>>> 
>>>> I've committed the changes for the Beelzebub12Gods testing build.
>>>> 
>>>> Could you please make the version and put it in the
>>>> Beelzebub12Gods-testing directory.
>>>> 
>>>> After you do that I'll put up a new page for
>>>> colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [7] that has
>>>> an icon for that and puts things into frames for better
>>> accessibility
>>>> and readability.
>>>> 
>>>> BR
>>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>> Discussions
>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>> malware
>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> [12]
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Colossus-developers mailing list
>>> Col...@li... [13] [8]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
>> [14] [9]
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/ [15]
>>> [2] http://sourceforge.net/ [16]
>>> [3] mailto:use...@us... [17]
>>> [4] mailto:cl...@cl... [18]
>>> [5] mailto:col...@li... [19]
>>> [6] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [20]
>>> [7] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [21]
>>> [8] mailto:Col...@li... [22]
>>> [9] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
>> [23]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
>> [2] mailto:nsi...@sh...
>> [3] mailto:cl...@cl...
>> [4] mailto:re...@ro...
>> [5] mailto:col...@li...
>> [6] http://sourceforge.net/
>> [7] mailto:use...@us...
>> [8] http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
>> [9] mailto:cl...@cl...
>> [10] mailto:col...@li...
>> [11] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
>> [12] http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> [13] mailto:Col...@li...
>> [14] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
>> [15] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
>> [16] http://sourceforge.net/
>> [17] mailto:use...@us...
>> [18] mailto:cl...@cl...
>> [19] mailto:col...@li...
>> [20] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
>> [21] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html
>> [22] mailto:Col...@li...
>> [23] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

Hello Norman and others,

> Would it be a lot of work to create a BG12Test variant on the server 
> if you
> don't want to take away BG12.

I realized it would be rather complicated and risky to have a 
production build running with both old and new variant built-in (*IF* 
that is what you meant ;-)


Instead, I (re-)created a new server instance, and there is now running 
the Colossus.jar and ColossusWeb.jar which I built fresh from latest 
checkout (revision 5192). It is running on port 16766 (exactly 10.000 
less than the usual one). See attached screenshot.

So you and Zoro, for example, could play on that instance. All data 
(game nr, logs, statistics, user base, ...) is totally separated from 
the production environment, except that the user information is cloned 
from there, as of ... dunno, 15 mins ago - so all who have account in 
real server can also try out new server. (But from now now user data 
will diverge - new users registered, or password changed, will only 
affect the instance in which it's done).


Pro: almost no risk to impact the production service, playtesting does 
not spoil the official stats
Con: for playtesting BG12, you have to be connected to different server 
instance, thus are not in same chat as "all normal users".

I hope it works; let me know if not...


BR,
Clemens




On 2012-07-11 00:00, Norman Sillito wrote:
> You said
>
> If they play locally, they will get new BG12 skill+power factors;
> if they play with public server, BG12 will behave same as it was.
>
> I never thought about that until you mentioned it. I should have 
> thought of
> it. Thanks for pointing it out.
>
> I will have to host for Zoro and I.
>
> Would it be a lot of work to create a BG12Test variant on the server 
> if you
> don't want to take away BG12.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl...]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 1:34 PM
> To: col...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>
>
>
> On 2012-07-10 22:51, David Partridge wrote:
>> Hi Clemens,
>>
>> I like your page fine as well. My thought was that one of the 
>> problems
>> with the old page was that so much stuff was off the page.
>
>> I tried to put everything on the page and just let the old stuff 
>> need
>> scrolling.
>
> Ah, now I get it!  Neat.  Just not compatible^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H 
> intuitively
> understandable for someone with a brain like mine....
>
>
>> Doing it with a menu works as well, just requires
>> that extra click to see some of the stuff, but the link is there so 
>> I
>> think it handles the issue fine.
>
> it's "clearer" to me, an easy "what is what" structuring (navigation 
> &
> content).
>
> 4 similar, "equally important" boxes, it's like,
> "HELP!", What's this" - have to look at all 4 because they all are
> "same important" :~|
>
> Trying to squeeze all visible in one go might not be promising 
> anyway;
> I've heard there are still people who do not run 1680 x 1280 by 
> default
> :)
>
> [ well, hm ... just I tried it with 1024 x 768, actually I am 
> surprised
> it was "pretty usable" (not big difference compared to high 
> resolution)
> - indeed as you said, it rearranges it and just the less important 
> parts
> are initially out of sight. ]
>
> Well perhaps it's that I don't like scrolling much at all....
>
>> I'll make a few changes to your page (add links to tutorials
>
> ok, nice. On old page there was some "the readme is here" and "link 
> to
> more docs", where is that right now (in your layout) ?
> In the approach with navigation it could perhaps be worked-in into 
> the
> index/navigation right away?
>
> I saw you added the link to building doc + Youtube. Good. I 
> personally
> would have wrapped more bla bla around it :)
>
>
>> and building, try to make the main build more prominent) and update
>> the site.
>
>> Everyone else can weigh in with any comments and I can update
>> accordingly.
>>
>> The point of the Beelzebub icon was to get people's comments on the
>> changes to that
>> variant. I expect to make a few more changes in that as people try 
>> it
>> out. If you want to merge it with the public testing build
>
> Might be good idea. Generally speaking, I _do_ see use for the
> threesome
> * official release,
> * PTB ("soon to be released"), and
> * "special build" (something bleeding edge)
>
> - we've used that scheme before, although the link for the special
> build was only in wiki. ("warning, only for those who know what they 
> are
> doing...").
>
> But at the moment the BG12 build is kind of as stable as the PTB. So 
> I
> could make a new PTB with BG12 changes included. One thing we should
> write somewhere, is the impact / compatibility issues. Lucily, in 
> this
> case, there's not much, but what people should now, is:
>
> If they play locally, they will get new BG12 skill+power factors;
> if they play with public server, BG12 will behave same as it was.
>
> Otherwise somebody might be confused.
>
> That kind of more detailed info (and in future PTBs might be more
> tricky), would clutter the banner too much.
>
> Or put there (upper right side) only a more flashy text (bold, 
> bigger,
> blinking, 3D-animated  ;-)))  , like: "Hey, new BeelzeGods12 variant
> open for testing, give it a try!" and make that link redirect / make 
> the
> main "content" frame display detailed info (what's it about,
> compatibility issues as mentioned, and icon to start it) ... ?
>
>
>> and just note that we are looking for BG12 comments in the notes 
>> that
>> works too.
>
>> I have no problems updating the page when the BG12 testing period is
>> over.
>
> ok.
>
> BR,
> Clemens
>
>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> -------------------------
>>  FROM: Clemens <cl...@cl...>
>>  TO: David Partridge <re...@ro...>
>> CC: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh...>;
>> col...@li...
>>  SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:28 PM
>>  SUBJECT: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>
>> Wow, Dave, you put a lot of work into rearranging the main page!
>>
>> I like the test build to be also an icon - I remember long ago I
>> tried
>>
>> something, to make a table and the PTB right-arranged (but on same
>> height as the left side, not as it was until yesterday, in the line
>> "below" the line on left side...) ... and just never got it
>> working...
>> For the PTB, I was thinking of the ColossusIcon with, like, split in
>> 9
>>
>> small scares rearranged like a shifting puzzle, the one with
>> different
>>
>> numbers is good, too!
>>
>> But I feel the official build should be more prominent than the two
>> special ones (now they all three are "equally big", i.e. "equally
>> meaningful to the user"). And/or, the test builds could be somewhere
>> else on the page? Would get easier when there's navigation added ==>
>> Read on.
>>
>> The whole page split into various blocks... I was somewhat puzzled
>> when
>> I saw it.
>> <STORY>I was just telling to a friend, hey look at "my" page, and he
>> typed some URL straight there, and I was like "Huuuh? Why is SF
>> showing
>> it this way when one uses THAT URL... until I realized its' the page
>> it
>> meant, the "looks different" is merely your reworking. </STORY>)
>>
>> I personally was ... overloaded by the many different frames, and
>> then
>>
>> one has to scroll within most of the boxes ... Uh.
>>
>> I had something much more simple in mind, just a navigation. Fueled
>> by
>>
>> that, I put *something* up which illustrates my idea:
>>
>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index-wn.html
>>
>> ... but it's probably not ready to use as it is either. Just to 
>> demo.
>>
>> Also, making the 3rd build as own icon with BB icon... that feels
>> funny
>> to me, because that pre-pre-public testing build (or "alpha build")
>> will
>> not be BG12 related (or even exist) in future. So this nails down a
>> "NOW
>> STATE" to "our general central page" ... So referring to it as BG 12
>> build... well, I just think in different timelines, I guess. (Dunno,
>> do
>> you get what I mean?)
>>
>> Well, perhaps it's ok, it's "that's how it is now", it just means,
>> when
>> the BG12 testing is over, someone has to update this page to remove
>> "the
>> BG12 build special stuff"... ;-)
>>
>> BR,
>> Clemens
>>
>> On 2012-07-10 19:31, David Partridge wrote:
>>> Hi Norman,
>>>
>>> I tried to distill the suggestions from the developer group and 
>>> from
>>> the users. The Variant Readme
>>> was updated to have the new values for the Gods. Any suggestions or
>>> comments please let me
>>> know, I expect we'll go through a couple of iterations before we
>>> reach
>>> a stable point that at least
>>> most of us think is an improvement.
>>>
>>> The page at colossus.sourceforge.net [1] has been updated so it
>> should be
>>> easy to download the
>>> BG12 test version (click on the Beelzebub icon). I just tested it
>> and
>>> it worked fine for me. If
>>> anyone has any issues please let me know.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> -------------------------
>>> FROM: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh... [2]>
>>> TO: 'Clemens' <cl...@cl... [3]>; 'David Partridge'
>>> <re...@ro... [4]>
>>> CC: col...@li... [5]
>>> SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:10 PM
>>> SUBJECT: RE: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>>
>>> Wow, thanks Clemens. I've downloaded and played a couple of games
>>> against 11
>>> computer AIs.
>>>
>>> Haven't involved many of the gods so far but I'll let you know when
>> I
>>> have
>>> some experience with them.
>>>
>>> I also made an announcement on the server and directed everyone to
>>> the
>>> webpage.
>>>
>>> The link below
>>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
>>> didn't' work.
>>>
>>> An error has been encountered in accessing this page.
>>>
>>> 1. Server: colossus.sourceforge.net [1]
>>> 2. URL path: /special-build/
>>> 3. Error notes: NONE
>>> 4. Error type: 403
>>> 5. Request method: GET
>>> 6. Request query string: NONE
>>> 7. Time: 2012-07-10 16:08:06 UTC (1341936486)
>>>
>>> Reporting this problem: The problem you have encountered is with a
>>> project
>>> web site hosted by SourceForge.net [6] [2]. This issue should be
>> reported
>>> to the
>>> SourceForge.net-hosted project (not to SourceForge.net).
>>>
>>> If this is a severe or recurring/persistent problem, please do one
>> of
>>> the
>>> following, and provide the error text (numbered 1 through 7, 
>>> above):
>>>
>>> Contact the project via their designated support resources.
>>> Contact the project administrators of this project via email (see
>>> the
>>> upper right-hand corner of the Project Summary page for their
>>> usernames) at
>>> use...@us... [7] [3]
>>>
>>> If you are a maintainer of this web content, please refer to the
>> Site
>>> Documentation regarding web services for further assistance.
>>>
>>> NOTE: As of 2008-10-23 directory index display has been disabled by
>>> default.
>>> This option may be re-enabled by the project by placing a file with
>>> the name
>>> ".htaccess" with this line:
>>>
>>> Options +Indexes
>>>
>>> However I found the link on the Colossus webpage that pointed to 
>>> the
>>> Public
>>> Test Builds
>>>
>>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
>> [8]
>>>
>>> and the link at the bottom of the page. Zoro found it from my
>>> directions so
>>> hopefully we will be able to try it out between us.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl... [9] [4]]
>>> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:54 AM
>>> To: David Partridge
>>> Cc: col...@li... [10] [5]
>>> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>>
>>> Hello Dave,
>>>
>>> I have made a "special testing" build for the BG 12 stuff. But
>>> contrary to
>>> what you suggested, I uploaded it to
>>>
>>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [11] [6]
>>>
>>> because that location already existed, and I was not willing to
>>> fiddle
>>> with
>>> the "how to get another new jnlp file working" today...
>>>
>>> I added link to it also in main web page (link to RecentChanges...
>>> doc
>>> removed since I did neither update, nor upload that one).
>>>
>>> BTW, this also includes a temporary fix for the "Can't connect to
>>> socket" error you encountered.
>>>
>>> (And I realized why I didn't get that error earlier - I had stored
>> an
>>> option "do not stop accepting clients" as true in my local
>>> Colossus-server.cfg, and due to that I didn't notice it when the
>>> change
>>> with the internal spectator client broke things. So that needs some
>>> cleanup... one more lesson of the category "how to fool
>> yourself...")
>>>
>>> BR,
>>> Clemens
>>>
>>> On 2012-07-09 08:17, David Partridge wrote:
>>>> Hi Clemens,
>>>>
>>>> I've committed the changes for the Beelzebub12Gods testing build.
>>>>
>>>> Could you please make the version and put it in the
>>>> Beelzebub12Gods-testing directory.
>>>>
>>>> After you do that I'll put up a new page for
>>>> colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [7] that has
>>>> an icon for that and puts things into frames for better
>>> accessibility
>>>> and readability.
>>>>
>>>> BR
>>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>> Discussions
>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>>> malware
>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> [12]
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Colossus-developers mailing list
>>> Col...@li... [13] [8]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
>> [14] [9]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/ [15]
>>> [2] http://sourceforge.net/ [16]
>>> [3] mailto:use...@us... [17]
>>> [4] mailto:cl...@cl... [18]
>>> [5] mailto:col...@li... [19]
>>> [6] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [20]
>>> [7] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [21]
>>> [8] mailto:Col...@li... [22]
>>> [9] 
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
>> [23]
>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
>> [2] mailto:nsi...@sh...
>> [3] mailto:cl...@cl...
>> [4] mailto:re...@ro...
>> [5] mailto:col...@li...
>> [6] http://sourceforge.net/
>> [7] mailto:use...@us...
>> [8] 
>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
>> [9] mailto:cl...@cl...
>> [10] mailto:col...@li...
>> [11] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
>> [12] http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> [13] mailto:Col...@li...
>> [14] 
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
>> [15] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
>> [16] http://sourceforge.net/
>> [17] mailto:use...@us...
>> [18] mailto:cl...@cl...
>> [19] mailto:col...@li...
>> [20] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
>> [21] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html
>> [22] mailto:Col...@li...
>> [23] 
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
>
>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. 
> Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in 
> malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

Okay, new index page is up. 

Norman, I left the news split into two pieces because I liked being able to scroll down in the
content window and quickly see useful things rather than having to scroll through the whole
list of old news.   Having just a few lines of new News at the top seems like a good approach.

Dave


________________________________
 From: Clemens <cl...@cl...>
To: col...@li... 
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
 


On 2012-07-10 22:51, David Partridge wrote:
> Hi Clemens,
>
> I like your page fine as well. My thought was that one of the 
> problems
> with the old page was that so much stuff was off the page.

> I tried to put everything on the page and just let the old stuff need 
> scrolling.

Ah, now I get it!  Neat.  Just not compatible^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H 
intuitively understandable for someone with a brain like mine....


> Doing it with a menu works as well, just requires
> that extra click to see some of the stuff, but the link is there so I
> think it handles the issue fine.

it's "clearer" to me, an easy "what is what" structuring (navigation & 
content).

4 similar, "equally important" boxes, it's like,
"HELP!", What's this" - have to look at all 4 because they all are 
"same important" :~|

Trying to squeeze all visible in one go might not be promising anyway; 
I've heard there are still people who do not run 1680 x 1280 by default 
:)

[ well, hm ... just I tried it with 1024 x 768, actually I am surprised 
it was "pretty usable" (not big difference compared to high resolution) 
- indeed as you said, it rearranges it and just the less important parts 
are initially out of sight. ]

Well perhaps it's that I don't like scrolling much at all....

> I'll make a few changes to your page (add links to tutorials

ok, nice. On old page there was some "the readme is here" and "link to 
more docs", where is that right now (in your layout) ?
In the approach with navigation it could perhaps be worked-in into the 
index/navigation right away?

I saw you added the link to building doc + Youtube. Good. I personally 
would have wrapped more bla bla around it :)


> and building, try to make the main build more prominent) and update 
> the site.

> Everyone else can weigh in with any comments and I can update 
> accordingly.
>
> The point of the Beelzebub icon was to get people's comments on the
> changes to that
> variant. I expect to make a few more changes in that as people try it
> out. If you want to merge it with the public testing build

Might be good idea. Generally speaking, I _do_ see use for the 
threesome
* official release,
* PTB ("soon to be released"), and
* "special build" (something bleeding edge)

- we've used that scheme before, although the link for the special 
build was only in wiki. ("warning, only for those who know what they are 
doing...").

But at the moment the BG12 build is kind of as stable as the PTB. So I 
could make a new PTB with BG12 changes included. One thing we should 
write somewhere, is the impact / compatibility issues. Lucily, in this 
case, there's not much, but what people should now, is:

If they play locally, they will get new BG12 skill+power factors;
if they play with public server, BG12 will behave same as it was.

Otherwise somebody might be confused.

That kind of more detailed info (and in future PTBs might be more 
tricky), would clutter the banner too much.

Or put there (upper right side) only a more flashy text (bold, bigger, 
blinking, 3D-animated  ;-)))  , like: "Hey, new BeelzeGods12 variant 
open for testing, give it a try!" and make that link redirect / make the 
main "content" frame display detailed info (what's it about, 
compatibility issues as mentioned, and icon to start it) ... ?


> and just note that we are looking for BG12 comments in the notes that 
> works too.

> I have no problems updating the page when the BG12 testing period is 
> over.

ok.

BR,
Clemens


>
> Dave
>
> -------------------------
>  FROM: Clemens <cl...@cl...>
>  TO: David Partridge <re...@ro...>
> CC: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh...>;
> col...@li...
>  SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:28 PM
>  SUBJECT: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>
> Wow, Dave, you put a lot of work into rearranging the main page!
>
> I like the test build to be also an icon - I remember long ago I 
> tried
>
> something, to make a table and the PTB right-arranged (but on same
> height as the left side, not as it was until yesterday, in the line
> "below" the line on left side...) ... and just never got it 
> working...
> For the PTB, I was thinking of the ColossusIcon with, like, split in 
> 9
>
> small scares rearranged like a shifting puzzle, the one with 
> different
>
> numbers is good, too!
>
> But I feel the official build should be more prominent than the two
> special ones (now they all three are "equally big", i.e. "equally
> meaningful to the user"). And/or, the test builds could be somewhere
> else on the page? Would get easier when there's navigation added ==>
> Read on.
>
> The whole page split into various blocks... I was somewhat puzzled
> when
> I saw it.
> <STORY>I was just telling to a friend, hey look at "my" page, and he
> typed some URL straight there, and I was like "Huuuh? Why is SF
> showing
> it this way when one uses THAT URL... until I realized its' the page
> it
> meant, the "looks different" is merely your reworking. </STORY>)
>
> I personally was ... overloaded by the many different frames, and 
> then
>
> one has to scroll within most of the boxes ... Uh.
>
> I had something much more simple in mind, just a navigation. Fueled 
> by
>
> that, I put *something* up which illustrates my idea:
>
> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index-wn.html
>
> ... but it's probably not ready to use as it is either. Just to demo.
>
> Also, making the 3rd build as own icon with BB icon... that feels
> funny
> to me, because that pre-pre-public testing build (or "alpha build")
> will
> not be BG12 related (or even exist) in future. So this nails down a
> "NOW
> STATE" to "our general central page" ... So referring to it as BG 12
> build... well, I just think in different timelines, I guess. (Dunno,
> do
> you get what I mean?)
>
> Well, perhaps it's ok, it's "that's how it is now", it just means,
> when
> the BG12 testing is over, someone has to update this page to remove
> "the
> BG12 build special stuff"... ;-)
>
> BR,
> Clemens
>
> On 2012-07-10 19:31, David Partridge wrote:
>> Hi Norman,
>>
>> I tried to distill the suggestions from the developer group and from
>> the users. The Variant Readme
>> was updated to have the new values for the Gods. Any suggestions or
>> comments please let me
>> know, I expect we'll go through a couple of iterations before we
>> reach
>> a stable point that at least
>> most of us think is an improvement.
>>
>> The page at colossus.sourceforge.net [1] has been updated so it
> should be
>> easy to download the
>> BG12 test version (click on the Beelzebub icon). I just tested it
> and
>> it worked fine for me. If
>> anyone has any issues please let me know.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> -------------------------
>> FROM: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh... [2]>
>> TO: 'Clemens' <cl...@cl... [3]>; 'David Partridge'
>> <re...@ro... [4]>
>> CC: col...@li... [5]
>> SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:10 PM
>> SUBJECT: RE: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>
>> Wow, thanks Clemens. I've downloaded and played a couple of games
>> against 11
>> computer AIs.
>>
>> Haven't involved many of the gods so far but I'll let you know when
> I
>> have
>> some experience with them.
>>
>> I also made an announcement on the server and directed everyone to
>> the
>> webpage.
>>
>> The link below
>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
>> didn't' work.
>>
>> An error has been encountered in accessing this page.
>>
>> 1. Server: colossus.sourceforge.net [1]
>> 2. URL path: /special-build/
>> 3. Error notes: NONE
>> 4. Error type: 403
>> 5. Request method: GET
>> 6. Request query string: NONE
>> 7. Time: 2012-07-10 16:08:06 UTC (1341936486)
>>
>> Reporting this problem: The problem you have encountered is with a
>> project
>> web site hosted by SourceForge.net [6] [2]. This issue should be
> reported
>> to the
>> SourceForge.net-hosted project (not to SourceForge.net).
>>
>> If this is a severe or recurring/persistent problem, please do one
> of
>> the
>> following, and provide the error text (numbered 1 through 7, above):
>>
>> Contact the project via their designated support resources.
>> Contact the project administrators of this project via email (see
>> the
>> upper right-hand corner of the Project Summary page for their
>> usernames) at
>> use...@us... [7] [3]
>>
>> If you are a maintainer of this web content, please refer to the
> Site
>> Documentation regarding web services for further assistance.
>>
>> NOTE: As of 2008-10-23 directory index display has been disabled by
>> default.
>> This option may be re-enabled by the project by placing a file with
>> the name
>> ".htaccess" with this line:
>>
>> Options +Indexes
>>
>> However I found the link on the Colossus webpage that pointed to the
>> Public
>> Test Builds
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
> [8]
>>
>> and the link at the bottom of the page. Zoro found it from my
>> directions so
>> hopefully we will be able to try it out between us.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl... [9] [4]]
>> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:54 AM
>> To: David Partridge
>> Cc: col...@li... [10] [5]
>> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>
>> Hello Dave,
>>
>> I have made a "special testing" build for the BG 12 stuff. But
>> contrary to
>> what you suggested, I uploaded it to
>>
>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [11] [6]
>>
>> because that location already existed, and I was not willing to
>> fiddle
>> with
>> the "how to get another new jnlp file working" today...
>>
>> I added link to it also in main web page (link to RecentChanges...
>> doc
>> removed since I did neither update, nor upload that one).
>>
>> BTW, this also includes a temporary fix for the "Can't connect to
>> socket" error you encountered.
>>
>> (And I realized why I didn't get that error earlier - I had stored
> an
>> option "do not stop accepting clients" as true in my local
>> Colossus-server.cfg, and due to that I didn't notice it when the
>> change
>> with the internal spectator client broke things. So that needs some
>> cleanup... one more lesson of the category "how to fool
> yourself...")
>>
>> BR,
>> Clemens
>>
>> On 2012-07-09 08:17, David Partridge wrote:
>>> Hi Clemens,
>>>
>>> I've committed the changes for the Beelzebub12Gods testing build.
>>>
>>> Could you please make the version and put it in the
>>> Beelzebub12Gods-testing directory.
>>>
>>> After you do that I'll put up a new page for
>>> colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [7] that has
>>> an icon for that and puts things into frames for better
>> accessibility
>>> and readability.
>>>
>>> BR
>>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>> Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>> malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [12]
>> _______________________________________________
>> Colossus-developers mailing list
>> Col...@li... [13] [8]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [14] [9]
>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/ [15]
>> [2] http://sourceforge.net/ [16]
>> [3] mailto:use...@us... [17]
>> [4] mailto:cl...@cl... [18]
>> [5] mailto:col...@li... [19]
>> [6] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [20]
>> [7] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [21]
>> [8] mailto:Col...@li... [22]
>> [9] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [23]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
> [2] mailto:nsi...@sh...
> [3] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [4] mailto:re...@ro...
> [5] mailto:col...@li...
> [6] http://sourceforge.net/
> [7] mailto:use...@us...
> [8] http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
> [9] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [10] mailto:col...@li...
> [11] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [12] http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [13] mailto:Col...@li...
> [14] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [15] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
> [16] http://sourceforge.net/
> [17] mailto:use...@us...
> [18] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [19] mailto:col...@li...
> [20] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [21] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html
> [22] mailto:Col...@li...
> [23] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
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Col...@li...
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With the menu on the side to jump to each section, the "Not so new anymore"
can be tacked on the end of the "News". 
That would eliminate one option from the Navigation without messing anything
up.

-----Original Message-----
From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl...] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 1:34 PM
To: col...@li...
Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build



On 2012-07-10 22:51, David Partridge wrote:
> Hi Clemens,
>
> I like your page fine as well. My thought was that one of the problems 
> with the old page was that so much stuff was off the page.

> I tried to put everything on the page and just let the old stuff need 
> scrolling.

Ah, now I get it!  Neat.  Just not compatible^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H intuitively
understandable for someone with a brain like mine....


> Doing it with a menu works as well, just requires
> that extra click to see some of the stuff, but the link is there so I
> think it handles the issue fine.

it's "clearer" to me, an easy "what is what" structuring (navigation & 
content).

4 similar, "equally important" boxes, it's like,
"HELP!", What's this" - have to look at all 4 because they all are 
"same important" :~|

Trying to squeeze all visible in one go might not be promising anyway; 
I've heard there are still people who do not run 1680 x 1280 by default 
:)

[ well, hm ... just I tried it with 1024 x 768, actually I am surprised 
it was "pretty usable" (not big difference compared to high resolution) 
- indeed as you said, it rearranges it and just the less important parts 
are initially out of sight. ]

Well perhaps it's that I don't like scrolling much at all....

> I'll make a few changes to your page (add links to tutorials

ok, nice. On old page there was some "the readme is here" and "link to 
more docs", where is that right now (in your layout) ?
In the approach with navigation it could perhaps be worked-in into the 
index/navigation right away?

I saw you added the link to building doc + Youtube. Good. I personally 
would have wrapped more bla bla around it :)


> and building, try to make the main build more prominent) and update 
> the site.

> Everyone else can weigh in with any comments and I can update 
> accordingly.
>
> The point of the Beelzebub icon was to get people's comments on the
> changes to that
> variant. I expect to make a few more changes in that as people try it
> out. If you want to merge it with the public testing build

Might be good idea. Generally speaking, I _do_ see use for the 
threesome
* official release,
* PTB ("soon to be released"), and
* "special build" (something bleeding edge)

- we've used that scheme before, although the link for the special 
build was only in wiki. ("warning, only for those who know what they are 
doing...").

But at the moment the BG12 build is kind of as stable as the PTB. So I 
could make a new PTB with BG12 changes included. One thing we should 
write somewhere, is the impact / compatibility issues. Lucily, in this 
case, there's not much, but what people should now, is:

If they play locally, they will get new BG12 skill+power factors;
if they play with public server, BG12 will behave same as it was.

Otherwise somebody might be confused.

That kind of more detailed info (and in future PTBs might be more 
tricky), would clutter the banner too much.

Or put there (upper right side) only a more flashy text (bold, bigger, 
blinking, 3D-animated  ;-)))  , like: "Hey, new BeelzeGods12 variant 
open for testing, give it a try!" and make that link redirect / make the 
main "content" frame display detailed info (what's it about, 
compatibility issues as mentioned, and icon to start it) ... ?


> and just note that we are looking for BG12 comments in the notes that 
> works too.

> I have no problems updating the page when the BG12 testing period is 
> over.

ok.

BR,
Clemens


>
> Dave
>
> -------------------------
>  FROM: Clemens <cl...@cl...>
>  TO: David Partridge <re...@ro...>
> CC: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh...>;
> col...@li...
>  SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:28 PM
>  SUBJECT: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>
> Wow, Dave, you put a lot of work into rearranging the main page!
>
> I like the test build to be also an icon - I remember long ago I 
> tried
>
> something, to make a table and the PTB right-arranged (but on same
> height as the left side, not as it was until yesterday, in the line
> "below" the line on left side...) ... and just never got it 
> working...
> For the PTB, I was thinking of the ColossusIcon with, like, split in 
> 9
>
> small scares rearranged like a shifting puzzle, the one with 
> different
>
> numbers is good, too!
>
> But I feel the official build should be more prominent than the two
> special ones (now they all three are "equally big", i.e. "equally
> meaningful to the user"). And/or, the test builds could be somewhere
> else on the page? Would get easier when there's navigation added ==>
> Read on.
>
> The whole page split into various blocks... I was somewhat puzzled
> when
> I saw it.
> <STORY>I was just telling to a friend, hey look at "my" page, and he
> typed some URL straight there, and I was like "Huuuh? Why is SF
> showing
> it this way when one uses THAT URL... until I realized its' the page
> it
> meant, the "looks different" is merely your reworking. </STORY>)
>
> I personally was ... overloaded by the many different frames, and 
> then
>
> one has to scroll within most of the boxes ... Uh.
>
> I had something much more simple in mind, just a navigation. Fueled 
> by
>
> that, I put *something* up which illustrates my idea:
>
> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index-wn.html
>
> ... but it's probably not ready to use as it is either. Just to demo.
>
> Also, making the 3rd build as own icon with BB icon... that feels
> funny
> to me, because that pre-pre-public testing build (or "alpha build")
> will
> not be BG12 related (or even exist) in future. So this nails down a
> "NOW
> STATE" to "our general central page" ... So referring to it as BG 12
> build... well, I just think in different timelines, I guess. (Dunno,
> do
> you get what I mean?)
>
> Well, perhaps it's ok, it's "that's how it is now", it just means,
> when
> the BG12 testing is over, someone has to update this page to remove
> "the
> BG12 build special stuff"... ;-)
>
> BR,
> Clemens
>
> On 2012-07-10 19:31, David Partridge wrote:
>> Hi Norman,
>>
>> I tried to distill the suggestions from the developer group and from
>> the users. The Variant Readme
>> was updated to have the new values for the Gods. Any suggestions or
>> comments please let me
>> know, I expect we'll go through a couple of iterations before we
>> reach
>> a stable point that at least
>> most of us think is an improvement.
>>
>> The page at colossus.sourceforge.net [1] has been updated so it
> should be
>> easy to download the
>> BG12 test version (click on the Beelzebub icon). I just tested it
> and
>> it worked fine for me. If
>> anyone has any issues please let me know.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> -------------------------
>> FROM: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh... [2]>
>> TO: 'Clemens' <cl...@cl... [3]>; 'David Partridge'
>> <re...@ro... [4]>
>> CC: col...@li... [5]
>> SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:10 PM
>> SUBJECT: RE: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>
>> Wow, thanks Clemens. I've downloaded and played a couple of games
>> against 11
>> computer AIs.
>>
>> Haven't involved many of the gods so far but I'll let you know when
> I
>> have
>> some experience with them.
>>
>> I also made an announcement on the server and directed everyone to
>> the
>> webpage.
>>
>> The link below
>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
>> didn't' work.
>>
>> An error has been encountered in accessing this page.
>>
>> 1. Server: colossus.sourceforge.net [1]
>> 2. URL path: /special-build/
>> 3. Error notes: NONE
>> 4. Error type: 403
>> 5. Request method: GET
>> 6. Request query string: NONE
>> 7. Time: 2012-07-10 16:08:06 UTC (1341936486)
>>
>> Reporting this problem: The problem you have encountered is with a
>> project
>> web site hosted by SourceForge.net [6] [2]. This issue should be
> reported
>> to the
>> SourceForge.net-hosted project (not to SourceForge.net).
>>
>> If this is a severe or recurring/persistent problem, please do one
> of
>> the
>> following, and provide the error text (numbered 1 through 7, above):
>>
>> Contact the project via their designated support resources.
>> Contact the project administrators of this project via email (see
>> the
>> upper right-hand corner of the Project Summary page for their
>> usernames) at
>> use...@us... [7] [3]
>>
>> If you are a maintainer of this web content, please refer to the
> Site
>> Documentation regarding web services for further assistance.
>>
>> NOTE: As of 2008-10-23 directory index display has been disabled by
>> default.
>> This option may be re-enabled by the project by placing a file with
>> the name
>> ".htaccess" with this line:
>>
>> Options +Indexes
>>
>> However I found the link on the Colossus webpage that pointed to the
>> Public
>> Test Builds
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
> [8]
>>
>> and the link at the bottom of the page. Zoro found it from my
>> directions so
>> hopefully we will be able to try it out between us.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl... [9] [4]]
>> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:54 AM
>> To: David Partridge
>> Cc: col...@li... [10] [5]
>> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>
>> Hello Dave,
>>
>> I have made a "special testing" build for the BG 12 stuff. But
>> contrary to
>> what you suggested, I uploaded it to
>>
>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [11] [6]
>>
>> because that location already existed, and I was not willing to
>> fiddle
>> with
>> the "how to get another new jnlp file working" today...
>>
>> I added link to it also in main web page (link to RecentChanges...
>> doc
>> removed since I did neither update, nor upload that one).
>>
>> BTW, this also includes a temporary fix for the "Can't connect to
>> socket" error you encountered.
>>
>> (And I realized why I didn't get that error earlier - I had stored
> an
>> option "do not stop accepting clients" as true in my local
>> Colossus-server.cfg, and due to that I didn't notice it when the
>> change
>> with the internal spectator client broke things. So that needs some
>> cleanup... one more lesson of the category "how to fool
> yourself...")
>>
>> BR,
>> Clemens
>>
>> On 2012-07-09 08:17, David Partridge wrote:
>>> Hi Clemens,
>>>
>>> I've committed the changes for the Beelzebub12Gods testing build.
>>>
>>> Could you please make the version and put it in the
>>> Beelzebub12Gods-testing directory.
>>>
>>> After you do that I'll put up a new page for
>>> colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [7] that has
>>> an icon for that and puts things into frames for better
>> accessibility
>>> and readability.
>>>
>>> BR
>>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
> 
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>> Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>> malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [12]
>> _______________________________________________
>> Colossus-developers mailing list
>> Col...@li... [13] [8]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [14] [9]
>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/ [15]
>> [2] http://sourceforge.net/ [16]
>> [3] mailto:use...@us... [17]
>> [4] mailto:cl...@cl... [18]
>> [5] mailto:col...@li... [19]
>> [6] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [20]
>> [7] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [21]
>> [8] mailto:Col...@li... [22]
>> [9] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [23]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
> [2] mailto:nsi...@sh...
> [3] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [4] mailto:re...@ro...
> [5] mailto:col...@li...
> [6] http://sourceforge.net/
> [7] mailto:use...@us...
> [8] http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
> [9] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [10] mailto:col...@li...
> [11] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [12] http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [13] mailto:Col...@li...
> [14] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [15] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
> [16] http://sourceforge.net/
> [17] mailto:use...@us...
> [18] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [19] mailto:col...@li...
> [20] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [21] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html
> [22] mailto:Col...@li...
> [23] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Colossus-developers mailing list
Col...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

I prefer the page with the navigation pane and the scroll pane. The
multi-pane was too busy.

-----Original Message-----
From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl...] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 1:34 PM
To: col...@li...
Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build



On 2012-07-10 22:51, David Partridge wrote:
> Hi Clemens,
>
> I like your page fine as well. My thought was that one of the problems 
> with the old page was that so much stuff was off the page.

> I tried to put everything on the page and just let the old stuff need 
> scrolling.

Ah, now I get it!  Neat.  Just not compatible^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H intuitively
understandable for someone with a brain like mine....


> Doing it with a menu works as well, just requires
> that extra click to see some of the stuff, but the link is there so I
> think it handles the issue fine.

it's "clearer" to me, an easy "what is what" structuring (navigation & 
content).

4 similar, "equally important" boxes, it's like,
"HELP!", What's this" - have to look at all 4 because they all are 
"same important" :~|

Trying to squeeze all visible in one go might not be promising anyway; 
I've heard there are still people who do not run 1680 x 1280 by default 
:)

[ well, hm ... just I tried it with 1024 x 768, actually I am surprised 
it was "pretty usable" (not big difference compared to high resolution) 
- indeed as you said, it rearranges it and just the less important parts 
are initially out of sight. ]

Well perhaps it's that I don't like scrolling much at all....

> I'll make a few changes to your page (add links to tutorials

ok, nice. On old page there was some "the readme is here" and "link to 
more docs", where is that right now (in your layout) ?
In the approach with navigation it could perhaps be worked-in into the 
index/navigation right away?

I saw you added the link to building doc + Youtube. Good. I personally 
would have wrapped more bla bla around it :)


> and building, try to make the main build more prominent) and update 
> the site.

> Everyone else can weigh in with any comments and I can update 
> accordingly.
>
> The point of the Beelzebub icon was to get people's comments on the
> changes to that
> variant. I expect to make a few more changes in that as people try it
> out. If you want to merge it with the public testing build

Might be good idea. Generally speaking, I _do_ see use for the 
threesome
* official release,
* PTB ("soon to be released"), and
* "special build" (something bleeding edge)

- we've used that scheme before, although the link for the special 
build was only in wiki. ("warning, only for those who know what they are 
doing...").

But at the moment the BG12 build is kind of as stable as the PTB. So I 
could make a new PTB with BG12 changes included. One thing we should 
write somewhere, is the impact / compatibility issues. Lucily, in this 
case, there's not much, but what people should now, is:

If they play locally, they will get new BG12 skill+power factors;
if they play with public server, BG12 will behave same as it was.

Otherwise somebody might be confused.

That kind of more detailed info (and in future PTBs might be more 
tricky), would clutter the banner too much.

Or put there (upper right side) only a more flashy text (bold, bigger, 
blinking, 3D-animated  ;-)))  , like: "Hey, new BeelzeGods12 variant 
open for testing, give it a try!" and make that link redirect / make the 
main "content" frame display detailed info (what's it about, 
compatibility issues as mentioned, and icon to start it) ... ?


> and just note that we are looking for BG12 comments in the notes that 
> works too.

> I have no problems updating the page when the BG12 testing period is 
> over.

ok.

BR,
Clemens


>
> Dave
>
> -------------------------
>  FROM: Clemens <cl...@cl...>
>  TO: David Partridge <re...@ro...>
> CC: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh...>;
> col...@li...
>  SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:28 PM
>  SUBJECT: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>
> Wow, Dave, you put a lot of work into rearranging the main page!
>
> I like the test build to be also an icon - I remember long ago I 
> tried
>
> something, to make a table and the PTB right-arranged (but on same
> height as the left side, not as it was until yesterday, in the line
> "below" the line on left side...) ... and just never got it 
> working...
> For the PTB, I was thinking of the ColossusIcon with, like, split in 
> 9
>
> small scares rearranged like a shifting puzzle, the one with 
> different
>
> numbers is good, too!
>
> But I feel the official build should be more prominent than the two
> special ones (now they all three are "equally big", i.e. "equally
> meaningful to the user"). And/or, the test builds could be somewhere
> else on the page? Would get easier when there's navigation added ==>
> Read on.
>
> The whole page split into various blocks... I was somewhat puzzled
> when
> I saw it.
> <STORY>I was just telling to a friend, hey look at "my" page, and he
> typed some URL straight there, and I was like "Huuuh? Why is SF
> showing
> it this way when one uses THAT URL... until I realized its' the page
> it
> meant, the "looks different" is merely your reworking. </STORY>)
>
> I personally was ... overloaded by the many different frames, and 
> then
>
> one has to scroll within most of the boxes ... Uh.
>
> I had something much more simple in mind, just a navigation. Fueled 
> by
>
> that, I put *something* up which illustrates my idea:
>
> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index-wn.html
>
> ... but it's probably not ready to use as it is either. Just to demo.
>
> Also, making the 3rd build as own icon with BB icon... that feels
> funny
> to me, because that pre-pre-public testing build (or "alpha build")
> will
> not be BG12 related (or even exist) in future. So this nails down a
> "NOW
> STATE" to "our general central page" ... So referring to it as BG 12
> build... well, I just think in different timelines, I guess. (Dunno,
> do
> you get what I mean?)
>
> Well, perhaps it's ok, it's "that's how it is now", it just means,
> when
> the BG12 testing is over, someone has to update this page to remove
> "the
> BG12 build special stuff"... ;-)
>
> BR,
> Clemens
>
> On 2012-07-10 19:31, David Partridge wrote:
>> Hi Norman,
>>
>> I tried to distill the suggestions from the developer group and from
>> the users. The Variant Readme
>> was updated to have the new values for the Gods. Any suggestions or
>> comments please let me
>> know, I expect we'll go through a couple of iterations before we
>> reach
>> a stable point that at least
>> most of us think is an improvement.
>>
>> The page at colossus.sourceforge.net [1] has been updated so it
> should be
>> easy to download the
>> BG12 test version (click on the Beelzebub icon). I just tested it
> and
>> it worked fine for me. If
>> anyone has any issues please let me know.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> -------------------------
>> FROM: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh... [2]>
>> TO: 'Clemens' <cl...@cl... [3]>; 'David Partridge'
>> <re...@ro... [4]>
>> CC: col...@li... [5]
>> SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:10 PM
>> SUBJECT: RE: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>
>> Wow, thanks Clemens. I've downloaded and played a couple of games
>> against 11
>> computer AIs.
>>
>> Haven't involved many of the gods so far but I'll let you know when
> I
>> have
>> some experience with them.
>>
>> I also made an announcement on the server and directed everyone to
>> the
>> webpage.
>>
>> The link below
>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
>> didn't' work.
>>
>> An error has been encountered in accessing this page.
>>
>> 1. Server: colossus.sourceforge.net [1]
>> 2. URL path: /special-build/
>> 3. Error notes: NONE
>> 4. Error type: 403
>> 5. Request method: GET
>> 6. Request query string: NONE
>> 7. Time: 2012-07-10 16:08:06 UTC (1341936486)
>>
>> Reporting this problem: The problem you have encountered is with a
>> project
>> web site hosted by SourceForge.net [6] [2]. This issue should be
> reported
>> to the
>> SourceForge.net-hosted project (not to SourceForge.net).
>>
>> If this is a severe or recurring/persistent problem, please do one
> of
>> the
>> following, and provide the error text (numbered 1 through 7, above):
>>
>> Contact the project via their designated support resources.
>> Contact the project administrators of this project via email (see
>> the
>> upper right-hand corner of the Project Summary page for their
>> usernames) at
>> use...@us... [7] [3]
>>
>> If you are a maintainer of this web content, please refer to the
> Site
>> Documentation regarding web services for further assistance.
>>
>> NOTE: As of 2008-10-23 directory index display has been disabled by
>> default.
>> This option may be re-enabled by the project by placing a file with
>> the name
>> ".htaccess" with this line:
>>
>> Options +Indexes
>>
>> However I found the link on the Colossus webpage that pointed to the
>> Public
>> Test Builds
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
> [8]
>>
>> and the link at the bottom of the page. Zoro found it from my
>> directions so
>> hopefully we will be able to try it out between us.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl... [9] [4]]
>> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:54 AM
>> To: David Partridge
>> Cc: col...@li... [10] [5]
>> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>
>> Hello Dave,
>>
>> I have made a "special testing" build for the BG 12 stuff. But
>> contrary to
>> what you suggested, I uploaded it to
>>
>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [11] [6]
>>
>> because that location already existed, and I was not willing to
>> fiddle
>> with
>> the "how to get another new jnlp file working" today...
>>
>> I added link to it also in main web page (link to RecentChanges...
>> doc
>> removed since I did neither update, nor upload that one).
>>
>> BTW, this also includes a temporary fix for the "Can't connect to
>> socket" error you encountered.
>>
>> (And I realized why I didn't get that error earlier - I had stored
> an
>> option "do not stop accepting clients" as true in my local
>> Colossus-server.cfg, and due to that I didn't notice it when the
>> change
>> with the internal spectator client broke things. So that needs some
>> cleanup... one more lesson of the category "how to fool
> yourself...")
>>
>> BR,
>> Clemens
>>
>> On 2012-07-09 08:17, David Partridge wrote:
>>> Hi Clemens,
>>>
>>> I've committed the changes for the Beelzebub12Gods testing build.
>>>
>>> Could you please make the version and put it in the
>>> Beelzebub12Gods-testing directory.
>>>
>>> After you do that I'll put up a new page for
>>> colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [7] that has
>>> an icon for that and puts things into frames for better
>> accessibility
>>> and readability.
>>>
>>> BR
>>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
> 
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>> Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>> malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [12]
>> _______________________________________________
>> Colossus-developers mailing list
>> Col...@li... [13] [8]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [14] [9]
>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/ [15]
>> [2] http://sourceforge.net/ [16]
>> [3] mailto:use...@us... [17]
>> [4] mailto:cl...@cl... [18]
>> [5] mailto:col...@li... [19]
>> [6] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [20]
>> [7] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [21]
>> [8] mailto:Col...@li... [22]
>> [9] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [23]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
> [2] mailto:nsi...@sh...
> [3] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [4] mailto:re...@ro...
> [5] mailto:col...@li...
> [6] http://sourceforge.net/
> [7] mailto:use...@us...
> [8] http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
> [9] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [10] mailto:col...@li...
> [11] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [12] http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [13] mailto:Col...@li...
> [14] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [15] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
> [16] http://sourceforge.net/
> [17] mailto:use...@us...
> [18] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [19] mailto:col...@li...
> [20] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [21] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html
> [22] mailto:Col...@li...
> [23] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Colossus-developers mailing list
Col...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

On 2012-07-10 22:51, David Partridge wrote:
> Hi Clemens,
>
> I like your page fine as well. My thought was that one of the 
> problems
> with the old page was that so much stuff was off the page.

> I tried to put everything on the page and just let the old stuff need 
> scrolling.

Ah, now I get it!  Neat.  Just not compatible^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H 
intuitively understandable for someone with a brain like mine....


> Doing it with a menu works as well, just requires
> that extra click to see some of the stuff, but the link is there so I
> think it handles the issue fine.

it's "clearer" to me, an easy "what is what" structuring (navigation & 
content).

4 similar, "equally important" boxes, it's like,
"HELP!", What's this" - have to look at all 4 because they all are 
"same important" :~|

Trying to squeeze all visible in one go might not be promising anyway; 
I've heard there are still people who do not run 1680 x 1280 by default 
:)

[ well, hm ... just I tried it with 1024 x 768, actually I am surprised 
it was "pretty usable" (not big difference compared to high resolution) 
- indeed as you said, it rearranges it and just the less important parts 
are initially out of sight. ]

Well perhaps it's that I don't like scrolling much at all....

> I'll make a few changes to your page (add links to tutorials

ok, nice. On old page there was some "the readme is here" and "link to 
more docs", where is that right now (in your layout) ?
In the approach with navigation it could perhaps be worked-in into the 
index/navigation right away?

I saw you added the link to building doc + Youtube. Good. I personally 
would have wrapped more bla bla around it :)


> and building, try to make the main build more prominent) and update 
> the site.

> Everyone else can weigh in with any comments and I can update 
> accordingly.
>
> The point of the Beelzebub icon was to get people's comments on the
> changes to that
> variant. I expect to make a few more changes in that as people try it
> out. If you want to merge it with the public testing build

Might be good idea. Generally speaking, I _do_ see use for the 
threesome
* official release,
* PTB ("soon to be released"), and
* "special build" (something bleeding edge)

- we've used that scheme before, although the link for the special 
build was only in wiki. ("warning, only for those who know what they are 
doing...").

But at the moment the BG12 build is kind of as stable as the PTB. So I 
could make a new PTB with BG12 changes included. One thing we should 
write somewhere, is the impact / compatibility issues. Lucily, in this 
case, there's not much, but what people should now, is:

If they play locally, they will get new BG12 skill+power factors;
if they play with public server, BG12 will behave same as it was.

Otherwise somebody might be confused.

That kind of more detailed info (and in future PTBs might be more 
tricky), would clutter the banner too much.

Or put there (upper right side) only a more flashy text (bold, bigger, 
blinking, 3D-animated  ;-)))  , like: "Hey, new BeelzeGods12 variant 
open for testing, give it a try!" and make that link redirect / make the 
main "content" frame display detailed info (what's it about, 
compatibility issues as mentioned, and icon to start it) ... ?


> and just note that we are looking for BG12 comments in the notes that 
> works too.

> I have no problems updating the page when the BG12 testing period is 
> over.

ok.

BR,
Clemens


>
> Dave
>
> -------------------------
>  FROM: Clemens <cl...@cl...>
>  TO: David Partridge <re...@ro...>
> CC: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh...>;
> col...@li...
>  SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:28 PM
>  SUBJECT: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>
> Wow, Dave, you put a lot of work into rearranging the main page!
>
> I like the test build to be also an icon - I remember long ago I 
> tried
>
> something, to make a table and the PTB right-arranged (but on same
> height as the left side, not as it was until yesterday, in the line
> "below" the line on left side...) ... and just never got it 
> working...
> For the PTB, I was thinking of the ColossusIcon with, like, split in 
> 9
>
> small scares rearranged like a shifting puzzle, the one with 
> different
>
> numbers is good, too!
>
> But I feel the official build should be more prominent than the two
> special ones (now they all three are "equally big", i.e. "equally
> meaningful to the user"). And/or, the test builds could be somewhere
> else on the page? Would get easier when there's navigation added ==>
> Read on.
>
> The whole page split into various blocks... I was somewhat puzzled
> when
> I saw it.
> <STORY>I was just telling to a friend, hey look at "my" page, and he
> typed some URL straight there, and I was like "Huuuh? Why is SF
> showing
> it this way when one uses THAT URL... until I realized its' the page
> it
> meant, the "looks different" is merely your reworking. </STORY>)
>
> I personally was ... overloaded by the many different frames, and 
> then
>
> one has to scroll within most of the boxes ... Uh.
>
> I had something much more simple in mind, just a navigation. Fueled 
> by
>
> that, I put *something* up which illustrates my idea:
>
> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index-wn.html
>
> ... but it's probably not ready to use as it is either. Just to demo.
>
> Also, making the 3rd build as own icon with BB icon... that feels
> funny
> to me, because that pre-pre-public testing build (or "alpha build")
> will
> not be BG12 related (or even exist) in future. So this nails down a
> "NOW
> STATE" to "our general central page" ... So referring to it as BG 12
> build... well, I just think in different timelines, I guess. (Dunno,
> do
> you get what I mean?)
>
> Well, perhaps it's ok, it's "that's how it is now", it just means,
> when
> the BG12 testing is over, someone has to update this page to remove
> "the
> BG12 build special stuff"... ;-)
>
> BR,
> Clemens
>
> On 2012-07-10 19:31, David Partridge wrote:
>> Hi Norman,
>>
>> I tried to distill the suggestions from the developer group and from
>> the users. The Variant Readme
>> was updated to have the new values for the Gods. Any suggestions or
>> comments please let me
>> know, I expect we'll go through a couple of iterations before we
>> reach
>> a stable point that at least
>> most of us think is an improvement.
>>
>> The page at colossus.sourceforge.net [1] has been updated so it
> should be
>> easy to download the
>> BG12 test version (click on the Beelzebub icon). I just tested it
> and
>> it worked fine for me. If
>> anyone has any issues please let me know.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> -------------------------
>> FROM: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh... [2]>
>> TO: 'Clemens' <cl...@cl... [3]>; 'David Partridge'
>> <re...@ro... [4]>
>> CC: col...@li... [5]
>> SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:10 PM
>> SUBJECT: RE: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>
>> Wow, thanks Clemens. I've downloaded and played a couple of games
>> against 11
>> computer AIs.
>>
>> Haven't involved many of the gods so far but I'll let you know when
> I
>> have
>> some experience with them.
>>
>> I also made an announcement on the server and directed everyone to
>> the
>> webpage.
>>
>> The link below
>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
>> didn't' work.
>>
>> An error has been encountered in accessing this page.
>>
>> 1. Server: colossus.sourceforge.net [1]
>> 2. URL path: /special-build/
>> 3. Error notes: NONE
>> 4. Error type: 403
>> 5. Request method: GET
>> 6. Request query string: NONE
>> 7. Time: 2012-07-10 16:08:06 UTC (1341936486)
>>
>> Reporting this problem: The problem you have encountered is with a
>> project
>> web site hosted by SourceForge.net [6] [2]. This issue should be
> reported
>> to the
>> SourceForge.net-hosted project (not to SourceForge.net).
>>
>> If this is a severe or recurring/persistent problem, please do one
> of
>> the
>> following, and provide the error text (numbered 1 through 7, above):
>>
>> Contact the project via their designated support resources.
>> Contact the project administrators of this project via email (see
>> the
>> upper right-hand corner of the Project Summary page for their
>> usernames) at
>> use...@us... [7] [3]
>>
>> If you are a maintainer of this web content, please refer to the
> Site
>> Documentation regarding web services for further assistance.
>>
>> NOTE: As of 2008-10-23 directory index display has been disabled by
>> default.
>> This option may be re-enabled by the project by placing a file with
>> the name
>> ".htaccess" with this line:
>>
>> Options +Indexes
>>
>> However I found the link on the Colossus webpage that pointed to the
>> Public
>> Test Builds
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
> [8]
>>
>> and the link at the bottom of the page. Zoro found it from my
>> directions so
>> hopefully we will be able to try it out between us.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl... [9] [4]]
>> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:54 AM
>> To: David Partridge
>> Cc: col...@li... [10] [5]
>> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>>
>> Hello Dave,
>>
>> I have made a "special testing" build for the BG 12 stuff. But
>> contrary to
>> what you suggested, I uploaded it to
>>
>> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [11] [6]
>>
>> because that location already existed, and I was not willing to
>> fiddle
>> with
>> the "how to get another new jnlp file working" today...
>>
>> I added link to it also in main web page (link to RecentChanges...
>> doc
>> removed since I did neither update, nor upload that one).
>>
>> BTW, this also includes a temporary fix for the "Can't connect to
>> socket" error you encountered.
>>
>> (And I realized why I didn't get that error earlier - I had stored
> an
>> option "do not stop accepting clients" as true in my local
>> Colossus-server.cfg, and due to that I didn't notice it when the
>> change
>> with the internal spectator client broke things. So that needs some
>> cleanup... one more lesson of the category "how to fool
> yourself...")
>>
>> BR,
>> Clemens
>>
>> On 2012-07-09 08:17, David Partridge wrote:
>>> Hi Clemens,
>>>
>>> I've committed the changes for the Beelzebub12Gods testing build.
>>>
>>> Could you please make the version and put it in the
>>> Beelzebub12Gods-testing directory.
>>>
>>> After you do that I'll put up a new page for
>>> colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [7] that has
>>> an icon for that and puts things into frames for better
>> accessibility
>>> and readability.
>>>
>>> BR
>>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>> Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
>> malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [12]
>> _______________________________________________
>> Colossus-developers mailing list
>> Col...@li... [13] [8]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [14] [9]
>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/ [15]
>> [2] http://sourceforge.net/ [16]
>> [3] mailto:use...@us... [17]
>> [4] mailto:cl...@cl... [18]
>> [5] mailto:col...@li... [19]
>> [6] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [20]
>> [7] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [21]
>> [8] mailto:Col...@li... [22]
>> [9] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [23]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
> [2] mailto:nsi...@sh...
> [3] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [4] mailto:re...@ro...
> [5] mailto:col...@li...
> [6] http://sourceforge.net/
> [7] mailto:use...@us...
> [8] http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
> [9] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [10] mailto:col...@li...
> [11] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [12] http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> [13] mailto:Col...@li...
> [14] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers
> [15] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
> [16] http://sourceforge.net/
> [17] mailto:use...@us...
> [18] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [19] mailto:col...@li...
> [20] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [21] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html
> [22] mailto:Col...@li...
> [23] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

Hi Clemens,

I like your page fine as well.  My thought was that one of the problems with the old page
was that so much stuff was off the page.  I tried to put everything on the page and just
let the old stuff need scrolling.  Doing it with a menu works as well, just requires
that extra click to see some of the stuff, but the link is there so I think it handles the issue
fine.

I'll make a few changes to your page (add links to tutorials and building, try to make the
main build more prominent) and update the site.  Everyone else can weigh in with any
comments and I can update accordingly.

The point of the Beelzebub icon was to get people's comments on the changes to that
variant.  I expect to make a few more changes in that as people try it out.  If you want to
merge it with the public testing build and just note that we are looking for BG12 comments
in the notes that works too.  I have no problems updating the page when the BG12 testing
period is over.

Dave




________________________________
 From: Clemens <cl...@cl...>
To: David Partridge <re...@ro...> 
Cc: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh...>; col...@li... 
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
 


Wow, Dave, you put a lot of work into rearranging the main page!

I like the test build to be also an icon - I remember long ago I tried 
something, to make a table and the PTB right-arranged (but on same 
height as the left side, not as it was until yesterday, in the line 
"below" the line on left side...) ... and just never got it working...
For the PTB, I was thinking of the ColossusIcon with, like, split in 9 
small scares rearranged like a shifting puzzle, the one with different 
numbers is good, too!

But I feel the official build should be more prominent than the two 
special ones (now they all three are "equally big", i.e. "equally 
meaningful to the user"). And/or, the test builds could be somewhere 
else on the page? Would get easier when there's navigation added ==> 
Read on.


The whole page split into various blocks... I was somewhat puzzled when 
I saw it.
<STORY>I was just telling to a friend, hey look at "my" page, and he 
typed some URL straight there, and I was like "Huuuh? Why is SF showing 
it this way when one uses THAT URL... until I realized its' the page it 
meant, the "looks different" is merely your reworking. </STORY>)


I personally was ... overloaded by the many different frames, and then 
one has to scroll within most of the boxes ... Uh.

I had something much more simple in mind, just a navigation. Fueled by 
that, I put *something* up which illustrates my idea:

http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index-wn.html

...  but it's probably not ready to use as it is either. Just to demo.



Also, making the 3rd build as own icon with BB icon... that feels funny 
to me, because that pre-pre-public testing build (or "alpha build") will 
not be BG12 related (or even exist) in future. So this nails down a "NOW 
STATE" to "our general central page" ... So referring to it as BG 12 
build... well, I just think in different timelines, I guess. (Dunno, do 
you get what I mean?)

Well, perhaps it's ok, it's "that's how it is now", it just means, when 
the BG12 testing is over, someone has to update this page to remove "the 
BG12 build special stuff"... ;-)


BR,
Clemens



On 2012-07-10 19:31, David Partridge wrote:
> Hi Norman,
>
> I tried to distill the suggestions from the developer group and from
> the users. The Variant Readme
> was updated to have the new values for the Gods. Any suggestions or
> comments please let me
> know, I expect we'll go through a couple of iterations before we 
> reach
> a stable point that at least
> most of us think is an improvement.
>
> The page at colossus.sourceforge.net has been updated so it should be
> easy to download the
> BG12 test version (click on the Beelzebub icon). I just tested it and
> it worked fine for me. If
> anyone has any issues please let me know.
>
> Dave
>
> -------------------------
>  FROM: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh...>
>  TO: 'Clemens' <cl...@cl...>; 'David Partridge'
> <re...@ro...>
> CC: col...@li...
>  SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:10 PM
>  SUBJECT: RE: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>
>  Wow, thanks Clemens. I've downloaded and played a couple of games
> against 11
> computer AIs.
>
> Haven't involved many of the gods so far but I'll let you know when I
> have
> some experience with them.
>
> I also made an announcement on the server and directed everyone to 
> the
> webpage.
>
> The link below
> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> didn't' work.
>
> An error has been encountered in accessing this page.
>
> 1. Server: colossus.sourceforge.net [1]
> 2. URL path: /special-build/
> 3. Error notes: NONE
> 4. Error type: 403
> 5. Request method: GET
> 6. Request query string: NONE
> 7. Time: 2012-07-10 16:08:06 UTC (1341936486)
>
> Reporting this problem: The problem you have encountered is with a
> project
> web site hosted by SourceForge.net [2]. This issue should be reported
> to the
> SourceForge.net-hosted project (not to SourceForge.net).
>
> If this is a severe or recurring/persistent problem, please do one of
> the
> following, and provide the error text (numbered 1 through 7, above):
>
>  Contact the project via their designated support resources.
>  Contact the project administrators of this project via email (see 
> the
> upper right-hand corner of the Project Summary page for their
> usernames) at
> use...@us... [3]
>
> If you are a maintainer of this web content, please refer to the Site
> Documentation regarding web services for further assistance.
>
> NOTE: As of 2008-10-23 directory index display has been disabled by
> default.
> This option may be re-enabled by the project by placing a file with
> the name
> ".htaccess" with this line:
>
> Options +Indexes
>
> However I found the link on the Colossus webpage that pointed to the
> Public
> Test Builds
>
> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
>
> and the link at the bottom of the page. Zoro found it from my
> directions so
> hopefully we will be able to try it out between us.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl... [4]]
> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:54 AM
> To: David Partridge
> Cc: col...@li... [5]
> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>
> Hello Dave,
>
> I have made a "special testing" build for the BG 12 stuff. But
> contrary to
> what you suggested, I uploaded it to
>
> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [6]
>
> because that location already existed, and I was not willing to 
> fiddle
> with
> the "how to get another new jnlp file working" today...
>
> I added link to it also in main web page (link to RecentChanges... 
> doc
> removed since I did neither update, nor upload that one).
>
> BTW, this also includes a temporary fix for the "Can't connect to
> socket" error you encountered.
>
> (And I realized why I didn't get that error earlier - I had stored an
> option "do not stop accepting clients" as true in my local
> Colossus-server.cfg, and due to that I didn't notice it when the
> change
> with the internal spectator client broke things. So that needs some
> cleanup... one more lesson of the category "how to fool yourself...")
>
> BR,
> Clemens
>
> On 2012-07-09 08:17, David Partridge wrote:
>> Hi Clemens,
>>
>> I've committed the changes for the Beelzebub12Gods testing build.
>>
>> Could you please make the version and put it in the
>> Beelzebub12Gods-testing directory.
>>
>> After you do that I'll put up a new page for
>> colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [7] that has
>> an icon for that and puts things into frames for better
> accessibility
>> and readability.
>>
>> BR
>> Dave
>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
> Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
> malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li... [8]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers [9]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
> [2] http://sourceforge.net/
> [3] mailto:use...@us...
> [4] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [5] mailto:col...@li...
> [6] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [7] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html
> [8] mailto:Col...@li...
> [9] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

Wow, Dave, you put a lot of work into rearranging the main page!

I like the test build to be also an icon - I remember long ago I tried 
something, to make a table and the PTB right-arranged (but on same 
height as the left side, not as it was until yesterday, in the line 
"below" the line on left side...) ... and just never got it working...
For the PTB, I was thinking of the ColossusIcon with, like, split in 9 
small scares rearranged like a shifting puzzle, the one with different 
numbers is good, too!

But I feel the official build should be more prominent than the two 
special ones (now they all three are "equally big", i.e. "equally 
meaningful to the user"). And/or, the test builds could be somewhere 
else on the page? Would get easier when there's navigation added ==> 
Read on.


The whole page split into various blocks... I was somewhat puzzled when 
I saw it.
<STORY>I was just telling to a friend, hey look at "my" page, and he 
typed some URL straight there, and I was like "Huuuh? Why is SF showing 
it this way when one uses THAT URL... until I realized its' the page it 
meant, the "looks different" is merely your reworking. </STORY>)


I personally was ... overloaded by the many different frames, and then 
one has to scroll within most of the boxes ... Uh.

I had something much more simple in mind, just a navigation. Fueled by 
that, I put *something* up which illustrates my idea:

http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index-wn.html

...  but it's probably not ready to use as it is either. Just to demo.



Also, making the 3rd build as own icon with BB icon... that feels funny 
to me, because that pre-pre-public testing build (or "alpha build") will 
not be BG12 related (or even exist) in future. So this nails down a "NOW 
STATE" to "our general central page" ... So referring to it as BG 12 
build... well, I just think in different timelines, I guess. (Dunno, do 
you get what I mean?)

Well, perhaps it's ok, it's "that's how it is now", it just means, when 
the BG12 testing is over, someone has to update this page to remove "the 
BG12 build special stuff"... ;-)


BR,
Clemens



On 2012-07-10 19:31, David Partridge wrote:
> Hi Norman,
>
> I tried to distill the suggestions from the developer group and from
> the users. The Variant Readme
> was updated to have the new values for the Gods. Any suggestions or
> comments please let me
> know, I expect we'll go through a couple of iterations before we 
> reach
> a stable point that at least
> most of us think is an improvement.
>
> The page at colossus.sourceforge.net has been updated so it should be
> easy to download the
> BG12 test version (click on the Beelzebub icon). I just tested it and
> it worked fine for me. If
> anyone has any issues please let me know.
>
> Dave
>
> -------------------------
>  FROM: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh...>
>  TO: 'Clemens' <cl...@cl...>; 'David Partridge'
> <re...@ro...>
> CC: col...@li...
>  SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:10 PM
>  SUBJECT: RE: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>
>  Wow, thanks Clemens. I've downloaded and played a couple of games
> against 11
> computer AIs.
>
> Haven't involved many of the gods so far but I'll let you know when I
> have
> some experience with them.
>
> I also made an announcement on the server and directed everyone to 
> the
> webpage.
>
> The link below
> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> didn't' work.
>
> An error has been encountered in accessing this page.
>
> 1. Server: colossus.sourceforge.net [1]
> 2. URL path: /special-build/
> 3. Error notes: NONE
> 4. Error type: 403
> 5. Request method: GET
> 6. Request query string: NONE
> 7. Time: 2012-07-10 16:08:06 UTC (1341936486)
>
> Reporting this problem: The problem you have encountered is with a
> project
> web site hosted by SourceForge.net [2]. This issue should be reported
> to the
> SourceForge.net-hosted project (not to SourceForge.net).
>
> If this is a severe or recurring/persistent problem, please do one of
> the
> following, and provide the error text (numbered 1 through 7, above):
>
>  Contact the project via their designated support resources.
>  Contact the project administrators of this project via email (see 
> the
> upper right-hand corner of the Project Summary page for their
> usernames) at
> use...@us... [3]
>
> If you are a maintainer of this web content, please refer to the Site
> Documentation regarding web services for further assistance.
>
> NOTE: As of 2008-10-23 directory index display has been disabled by
> default.
> This option may be re-enabled by the project by placing a file with
> the name
> ".htaccess" with this line:
>
> Options +Indexes
>
> However I found the link on the Colossus webpage that pointed to the
> Public
> Test Builds
>
> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
>
> and the link at the bottom of the page. Zoro found it from my
> directions so
> hopefully we will be able to try it out between us.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl... [4]]
> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:54 AM
> To: David Partridge
> Cc: col...@li... [5]
> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>
> Hello Dave,
>
> I have made a "special testing" build for the BG 12 stuff. But
> contrary to
> what you suggested, I uploaded it to
>
> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [6]
>
> because that location already existed, and I was not willing to 
> fiddle
> with
> the "how to get another new jnlp file working" today...
>
> I added link to it also in main web page (link to RecentChanges... 
> doc
> removed since I did neither update, nor upload that one).
>
> BTW, this also includes a temporary fix for the "Can't connect to
> socket" error you encountered.
>
> (And I realized why I didn't get that error earlier - I had stored an
> option "do not stop accepting clients" as true in my local
> Colossus-server.cfg, and due to that I didn't notice it when the
> change
> with the internal spectator client broke things. So that needs some
> cleanup... one more lesson of the category "how to fool yourself...")
>
> BR,
> Clemens
>
> On 2012-07-09 08:17, David Partridge wrote:
>> Hi Clemens,
>>
>> I've committed the changes for the Beelzebub12Gods testing build.
>>
>> Could you please make the version and put it in the
>> Beelzebub12Gods-testing directory.
>>
>> After you do that I'll put up a new page for
>> colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [7] that has
>> an icon for that and puts things into frames for better
> accessibility
>> and readability.
>>
>> BR
>> Dave
>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
> Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
> malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li... [8]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers [9]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
> [2] http://sourceforge.net/
> [3] mailto:use...@us...
> [4] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [5] mailto:col...@li...
> [6] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [7] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html
> [8] mailto:Col...@li...
> [9] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

> The link didn't work
> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/


Yeah, that was misleading from my side. That's technically the place 
where I uploaded the files to,
but there's no index.html in it; and was meant more as info for Dave to 
where it is now.

The way to access it is, as Dave said, on the main Colossus page ; I 
had created a new line below the
"Public Testing Build" line.

Dave has worked on the main page and turned the PTB and the new BG12 
testing builds "lines" also into icons.

I'll say something to the new page in a different mail.

BR,
Clemens


On 2012-07-10 19:31, David Partridge wrote:
> Hi Norman,
>
> I tried to distill the suggestions from the developer group and from
> the users. The Variant Readme
> was updated to have the new values for the Gods. Any suggestions or
> comments please let me
> know, I expect we'll go through a couple of iterations before we 
> reach
> a stable point that at least
> most of us think is an improvement.
>
> The page at colossus.sourceforge.net has been updated so it should be
> easy to download the
> BG12 test version (click on the Beelzebub icon). I just tested it and
> it worked fine for me. If
> anyone has any issues please let me know.
>
> Dave
>
> -------------------------
>  FROM: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh...>
>  TO: 'Clemens' <cl...@cl...>; 'David Partridge'
> <re...@ro...>
> CC: col...@li...
>  SENT: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:10 PM
>  SUBJECT: RE: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>
>  Wow, thanks Clemens. I've downloaded and played a couple of games
> against 11
> computer AIs.
>
> Haven't involved many of the gods so far but I'll let you know when I
> have
> some experience with them.
>
> I also made an announcement on the server and directed everyone to 
> the
> webpage.
>
> The link below
> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> didn't' work.
>
> An error has been encountered in accessing this page.
>
> 1. Server: colossus.sourceforge.net [1]
> 2. URL path: /special-build/
> 3. Error notes: NONE
> 4. Error type: 403
> 5. Request method: GET
> 6. Request query string: NONE
> 7. Time: 2012-07-10 16:08:06 UTC (1341936486)
>
> Reporting this problem: The problem you have encountered is with a
> project
> web site hosted by SourceForge.net [2]. This issue should be reported
> to the
> SourceForge.net-hosted project (not to SourceForge.net).
>
> If this is a severe or recurring/persistent problem, please do one of
> the
> following, and provide the error text (numbered 1 through 7, above):
>
>  Contact the project via their designated support resources.
>  Contact the project administrators of this project via email (see 
> the
> upper right-hand corner of the Project Summary page for their
> usernames) at
> use...@us... [3]
>
> If you are a maintainer of this web content, please refer to the Site
> Documentation regarding web services for further assistance.
>
> NOTE: As of 2008-10-23 directory index display has been disabled by
> default.
> This option may be re-enabled by the project by placing a file with
> the name
> ".htaccess" with this line:
>
> Options +Indexes
>
> However I found the link on the Colossus webpage that pointed to the
> Public
> Test Builds
>
> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild
>
> and the link at the bottom of the page. Zoro found it from my
> directions so
> hopefully we will be able to try it out between us.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl... [4]]
> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:54 AM
> To: David Partridge
> Cc: col...@li... [5]
> Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
>
> Hello Dave,
>
> I have made a "special testing" build for the BG 12 stuff. But
> contrary to
> what you suggested, I uploaded it to
>
> http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/ [6]
>
> because that location already existed, and I was not willing to 
> fiddle
> with
> the "how to get another new jnlp file working" today...
>
> I added link to it also in main web page (link to RecentChanges... 
> doc
> removed since I did neither update, nor upload that one).
>
> BTW, this also includes a temporary fix for the "Can't connect to
> socket" error you encountered.
>
> (And I realized why I didn't get that error earlier - I had stored an
> option "do not stop accepting clients" as true in my local
> Colossus-server.cfg, and due to that I didn't notice it when the
> change
> with the internal spectator client broke things. So that needs some
> cleanup... one more lesson of the category "how to fool yourself...")
>
> BR,
> Clemens
>
> On 2012-07-09 08:17, David Partridge wrote:
>> Hi Clemens,
>>
>> I've committed the changes for the Beelzebub12Gods testing build.
>>
>> Could you please make the version and put it in the
>> Beelzebub12Gods-testing directory.
>>
>> After you do that I'll put up a new page for
>> colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html [7] that has
>> an icon for that and puts things into frames for better
> accessibility
>> and readability.
>>
>> BR
>> Dave
>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
> Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in
> malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Colossus-developers mailing list
> Col...@li... [8]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers [9]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/
> [2] http://sourceforge.net/
> [3] mailto:use...@us...
> [4] mailto:cl...@cl...
> [5] mailto:col...@li...
> [6] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
> [7] http://colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html
> [8] mailto:Col...@li...
> [9] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers

Hi Norman,

I tried to distill the suggestions from the developer group and from the users.  The Variant Readme
was updated to have the new values for the Gods.   Any suggestions or comments please let me
know, I expect we'll go through a couple of iterations before we reach a stable point that at least
most of us think is an improvement.

The page at colossus.sourceforge.net has been updated so it should be easy to download the
BG12 test version (click on the Beelzebub icon).  I just tested it and it worked fine for me.  If 
anyone has any issues please let me know.

Dave


________________________________
 From: Norman Sillito <nsi...@sh...>
To: 'Clemens' <cl...@cl...>; 'David Partridge' <re...@ro...> 
Cc: col...@li... 
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build
 
Wow, thanks Clemens. I've downloaded and played a couple of games against 11
computer AIs. 

Haven't involved many of the gods so far but I'll let you know when I have
some experience with them.

I also made an announcement on the server and directed everyone to the
webpage. 

The link below 
http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/
didn't' work.


An error has been encountered in accessing this page.

1. Server: colossus.sourceforge.net
2. URL path: /special-build/
3. Error notes: NONE
4. Error type: 403
5. Request method: GET
6. Request query string: NONE
7. Time: 2012-07-10 16:08:06 UTC (1341936486)

Reporting this problem: The problem you have encountered is with a project
web site hosted by SourceForge.net. This issue should be reported to the
SourceForge.net-hosted project (not to SourceForge.net).

If this is a severe or recurring/persistent problem, please do one of the
following, and provide the error text (numbered 1 through 7, above):

    Contact the project via their designated support resources.
    Contact the project administrators of this project via email (see the
upper right-hand corner of the Project Summary page for their usernames) at
use...@us...

If you are a maintainer of this web content, please refer to the Site
Documentation regarding web services for further assistance.

NOTE: As of 2008-10-23 directory index display has been disabled by default.
This option may be re-enabled by the project by placing a file with the name
".htaccess" with this line:

Options +Indexes


However I found the link on the Colossus webpage that pointed to the Public
Test Builds

http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/colossus/wiki/PublicTestingBuild

and the link at the bottom of the page. Zoro found it from my directions so
hopefully we will be able to try it out between us.


-----Original Message-----
From: Clemens [mailto:cl...@cl...] 
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:54 AM
To: David Partridge
Cc: col...@li...
Subject: Re: [Colossus-developers] Beelzebub12Gods testing build


Hello Dave,

I have made a "special testing" build for the BG 12 stuff. But contrary to
what you suggested, I uploaded it to

http://colossus.sourceforge.net/special-build/

because that location already existed, and I was not willing to fiddle with
the "how to get another new jnlp file working" today...

I added link to it also in main web page (link to RecentChanges... doc
removed since I did neither update, nor upload that one).


BTW, this also includes a temporary fix for the "Can't connect to 
socket" error you encountered.

(And I realized why I didn't get that error earlier - I had stored an 
option "do not stop accepting clients" as true in my local 
Colossus-server.cfg, and due to that I didn't notice it when the change 
with the internal spectator client broke things. So that needs some 
cleanup... one more lesson of the category "how to fool yourself...")


BR,
Clemens



On 2012-07-09 08:17, David Partridge wrote:
> Hi Clemens,
>
> I've committed the changes for the Beelzebub12Gods testing build.
>
> Could you please make the version and put it in the
> Beelzebub12Gods-testing directory.
>
> After you do that I'll put up a new page for
> colossus.sourceforge.net/index.html that has
> an icon for that and puts things into frames for better accessibility
> and readability.
>
> BR
> Dave


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Colossus-developers mailing list
Col...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/colossus-developers