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Stefan's Reviews > The Way of Kings

The Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson
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it was ok
Read 2 times. Last read October 9, 2017 to October 13, 2017.

We have the freedom to express our opinions in beauty of subjectivity, and we should always fight and bite to keep that.

But that's not the case I'm trying to make here with this review.

I’m not trying to challenge anyone’s opinion or common sense when I say that by all measures of literature in history of mankind – and what paved the way for books, movies, songs we today call classics to be considered as such because of their unique quality – The Way of Kings (as well as its far worse sequel: Words of Radiance) is one of the worst books ever written.

I tried as much as I could to share my thoughts in a thoughtful and respectful manner for all of you who love this book.
And I believe that I do have an actual position (as an admirer of fantasy genre) that I feel obliged to argue.
Especially when I see a problem.
OK?
OK.
Onto the actual review, then.

The only book I’ve read more times than this one was Leo Tolstoy’s War and Peace.
And the reason why I read War and Peace so many times was because upon each read I discovered something new that would grip me in Leo’s story; a new character and their perspectives I overlooked or experienced in a different way every other time I took the book in my hands.
A true masterpiece and a classic that rightfully stands against the time, in spite being written well over a century ago.

Am I actually trying to draw a comparison between War and Peace and The Way of Kings?
God, no!
The only similarity these two books have, luckily, is that both are just that – books.
In everything else they fail in comparison.

But, I have seen many people calling The Way of Kings both a masterpiece and an instant classic of the genre.
I admit, on my first two reads, I was inclined to agree. I understand all of you who think and say that.
Because I was one of you. I was enamored and infatuated by scope and magnitude of what I was reading.

I never thought that someone could make a story where people are fighting over a heart of a giant crab and make it sound serious.
I never thought that you could read about bunch of knights, dressed as medieval Power Rangers, wielding giant swords that were made out of pure essence, which would appear in their hands out of thin air (or morning mist) when they would call them with their minds – and not come out as a dork high on sugar.

It was important to me because I was one of those dorks high on sugar.

I thought – what most of you are right now quite unimaginatively repeating in unison – that this book was exclusively nothing but: amazing.

Now?

I’m deeply ashamed of myself for having such a high opinion of this book.

So, what happened in-between my first two reads in 2011 and 2012 and this one at the end of 2017?

Well, the answer is quite simple: I read better books than this one.

Better books with richer worlds, more beautiful prose and far more developed characters.
Better series with less inconsistencies in it, less plotholes and less… well, problems overall.
Better authors that were more focused on quality of what they were writing about - where you can actually recognize their effort to make a book better;
than quantity - when after first two reads and beginners infatuation by the scope and magnitude of what you were dealing with, few years later when you try to reread what you, in your ignorance, were believing was an ‘instant classic’, is nothing more than a shallow, 800 pages far too long, rambling.

So, the actual rating for this book is 2.25/5.
How come exactly 2.25?
Well, because of the chart. This one:

description

And the long list of problems that prevented numbers on that chart from going higher.
What problems?
Let’s start with the biggest one for me.

Characterization.

The fun starts, with - what I will repeat is - probably one of the best described confusion of battle I have ever read. Anywhere.
And whoever experienced a battle in real life, or at least played CoD online, or really, really carefully was trying to figure out what baseball is about, probably knows of confusion I’m talking about. (And if you’re wondering, yes, I experienced all three above – baseball is the worst. By far.)

It’s a really great scene where you are put in this situation where you don’t have any knowledge of terrain, where you are depraved of ‘bird’s perspective’ in which you can 'see' battle on the east flank, or what happens on the west side, so that you can act accordingly.
No, here, all you can see are sweating bodies; hear yelling and cursing; and smell gore and piss.
You’re a puppet, you know you’re a puppet, and like one, they move you all around.

And in this chapter we are introduced to our main protagonist. Our Jesus, our Superman of the story.
With his almost omnipotent power he’s expressing, he tries to take care of those who can’t do that for themselves, and you can see in his saddened gaze – which is due to undoubtedly his equally sad and tragic past – weight of the entire world, threatening to crash him underneath.
Yet he stands.
Resolute.

Until the next chapter where we see him in shackles, with broken spirit, strolling away as a slave to Shattered Plains, where he will carry bridges into war across the chasms, towards revolution and freedom for all!

(Now insert a petty sarcasm "over 6000" here):

Nooo, I have never seen a character such as this!
It never, ever, crossed my mind that Kaladin (our main protagonist) is a Jesus and Superman in one, with Peter Pan’s Tinkerbelle (Syl) on his shoulders as, not just as a moral compass, but a source of his powers to, let’s say, I don’t know, maybe even fly…
And yes, I’m ashamed of this as well, because it took me two reads to realize similarities between Peter Pan and Tinkerbelle and Kaladin and Syl.

So, now that we are on Shattered Plains… wow, wow, wow, wow… where are you going?
You thought we were moving forward?
No, no, no, no, this book doesn’t work like that. No…
In order for us to move forward with characterization of our main protagonist, we have to go: back.
Into the 800 pages long info-dumps.
Oh yes.

Oh no!
Ramifications of this atrocity called: ‘characterization through characters past’ will be significant in future.
First two books of The Stormlight Archive series are the most dangerous thing that happened to this genre.
In 50 years, when historians will bang their heads in an effort to find roots of a downfall of epic fantasy as a genre, they’ll find its roots here. In this very book.
It started already. Just this year alone I have read two books by an author who said he was inspired by Brandon Sanderson.
And he did this exact same thing. He build a character by telling his past.

And… do you know what some of you who read those books said about that approach of building a character?
You called it an info-dump.

It’s really interesting how you failed to recognize and you actually praised that same approach here, where that kind of fallacy practically came from. Oh well…
Who knows how many of new, aspiring authors will be inspired by this kind of approach.
All because none of us told Sanderson that THIS - DOESN'T - WORK.

‘So what’, you’ll say. ‘Surely there’s no a definitive answer what characterization is or isn’t.’

Except, there is. There are books actually written about it. With carefully dissected examples of what throughout the history of literature and media all around us today, worked as a story, plot or characterization and, more importantly, what didn’t worked.

And when I compared those examples of undoubted quality in long history with what Brandon tried here with, not just his characters but overall, in this book, it’s really not that much of a surprise that The Way of Kings doesn’t stand to a test of time.
Not even three years passed when I noticed first problems, when I read more than 100 books of this genre and realized: ‘Oh my God, there are far better books than this one.’.

In essence, my problem with Kaladin’s characterization is this.

You can show a character going through many changes in a story, but not all of them represent character change.
True character change involves a challenging and changing of basic beliefs, leading to new moral action by the hero.

What happens when we exclude stories about his past (those infamous info-dumps), stories that tells us how Kaladin’s character was shaped and came to be to the point where we meet him in his first chapter?
Let's ask ourselves a question:

Who exactly is Kaladin when we meet him for the first time?

A capable young man who cares deeply about people in his unit, people he feels responsible for due to his tragic past. And he is willing to negotiate and work with people with whom he fundamentally disagrees. Lighteyes.

Who is Kaladin at the end of the book?

A capable young man who cares deeply about people in his unit, people he feels responsible for due to his tragic past. And he is willing to negotiate and work with people with whom he fundamentally disagrees. Lighteyes.

Spot the differences there?
No?
Didn't think so.

Let’s say I’m a potter. And I have a vase I want to reshape into something else. I start turning the wheel, reshaping and reshaping it – only to end up with a same vase again.
Question is: why? Why spending my time, my efforts and my resources reshaping something into exactly the same thing it was in the first place?

And one can maybe argue: ‘Well, it’s the journey, not the destination.’
If the entirety of a journey is simply running in circles, then I’ll accept that. Because that’s exactly what happened here.
Kaladin started from point 'A', went into journey of self-doubt and self-preservation, only to end up back at the same point 'A' he begin with.
And that’s absolutely fine. Those are all changes.
But that’s not characterization.
Brandon keeps repeating this same mistake throughout this entire series.

And do you know why I gave characterization of this book 2 and not 1?
Apply all of which I've said about building Kalladin's character to a character of Adolin Kholin.
Who he is at the beginning and the end, moral conflicts that shaped his character inside of one cohesive story etc...
Vast improvement.
And do you know whose character is one constantly good thing throughout these five reads?
Adolin Kholin, yes.
Wonder why is that...

About female characters I'll say only this: When you insist on copying female characters you created in Elantris and Warbreaker, and simply paste them from next series to next - I will call you on it. Sarene, Siri, Vivenna, Shallan and Jasnah are all one and the same character.
You make me miss that Mistborn's very own Mary Sue: Vin.

And just to be clear, female characters are not the only ones that get this unimaginative treatment.

We have this reminiscent sidekicks:
Teft. A blindly devoted, desperate in need of worshiping someone Galladon from Elantris knock-off.
Yes, Teft from The Way of Kings serves exactly the same purpose for main character in this book as did Galladon for main character of Elantris.

Now, we only need someone who'll, like Galladon in Elantris, constantly repeat nonsense in a local dialect... something like sule or kolo...
Ah, Lopen, there you are! Yes, gancho, you, get over here, gon!

I swear I see a pattern here...

Worbuilding.

I want to express gratitude for immense amount of effort Brandon’s team put up into creating artwork for this book. It’s really amazing, from cover itself, through maps to interior art.
Just look at this map:

description

Just look at it. Such beauty to look upon.
Only to look upon, because, sadly, out of all of that, for almost two entire books we’ll spend time only on eastern barren cliffs.
So, this glorious, beautiful map? You don’t need it. For two books you’ll experience three percent of it.

(Red X marks the spot)

Cliffs. Chasms and giant crabs.

1100 pages long behemoth of a book and we’re left wondering not just how 97% of the world looks like, but also how society works on some basic levels.
But I guess it was far more important to tell us that alcohol comes in variety of colors.
And tease some cameo appearances in interludes that, as of yet, don’t serves to the main story.

Prose.

I passionately disagree with this logic how “If you’re not a writer and if you’re not eloquent enough in writing your own reviews” you shouldn’t criticize author’s prose.

Do I need to be a mechanic to say that my wheel has fallen off?
Do I need to be a firefighter to say that my house is burning?
No?

So why do I need to be a writer myself to recognize and say that author of this book is preposterously bad at writing.
It’s either that, or he considers me an idiot. I do have self-respect, so I’ll go with the first one.
Brandon Sanderson is lightyears behind those authors I consider decent ones.
And mind you, English is not my first, nor second language, but still I’m able to recognize vastness in differences between authors prose. It’s not really science.

And if we combine his fetish of constant repeating and reminding us that Jasnah (written with a J but spoken with a Y – as I said, illiteracy cuts deep in this one) is a heretic and that Sadeas lacks Shardblade, at least three times per chapter with boring, witless and cringeworthily dialogues - novel is unbearably bleak and blatantly ridiculous.

Just a few examples:

Sadeas and his far too many times now mentioned Shardblade:

"Sadeas's hand had gone to his sword. Not a Shardblade, for Sadeas didn't have one."

"The highprince hated that Adolin had a blade while Sadeas had none"

"Sadeas was calling for his grandbow."


Remember, this is all within a single 15 pages long chapter.

Second - dialogues. Those awful, awful dialogues:

“I can see you are a woman of discriminating taste.”
“I am. I do like my meals prepared very carefully, as my palate is quite delicate.”
“Pardon. I meant that you have discriminating taste in books.”
“I’ve never eaten one, actually.”


As well as pitiful attempts at witty banters and humor:

"Each man has his place. Mine is to make insults. Yours is to be: in-sluts."

Barum tssss....
And my favourite, Sanderson's signature over-the-top bullshit:

"Today I went fishing and I caught one. Very lucky fish other fisherman said.
Cures aching joints for a good month after you eat it, and sometimes let you see when friends were going to visit by letting you read the shapes of the sound."


I mean, at this point, why the hell not?

Allegory.

Nonexistent.
OK, Sanderson fans, what is this book about? What is the meaning, what is he trying to say, what’s the message?
Is this book about racism? Criticizing it? I hope so. Because in this book, everyone is racist. Including Kaladin, our main protagonist.
What?
And how would you call a person who because of actions of two people with distinctive physical characteristics now hates everyone with those same physical characteristic?
That's a definition of racist. And that's also Kaladin's POV.

But, he's not the only one, no.

Lighteyes people are basically Nazis. They hate anyone non-lighteye.
Darkeyes people, or a common folk, of course, hate lighteyes and, because society thought them that way, they hate these slaves, these Parsh people.
Parshendi, which are equivalent to Native American people... well, they hate everyone. Including themselves.
And since everyone, Lighteyes, Darkeyes and Parshendi hate Parsh people, people who did no harm to anyone else, and who literally serve as slaves in this book - it only fits to make them as main villains, right?

I told you this book is filled with Sanderson's over the top bullshit, didn't I?

It’s a paradox how the only compliant and peaceful in collective discrimination of their race are mute, black Parsh slaves which aren’t even consider as humans. But like that wasn’t enough in this, ocean of ridiculousness, by the end of this book they are proclaimed as story’s main antagonists.
Empty vessels that could be filled with nothing but evil spirits.

And on top of that, you'll add Shallan, our female lead, who'll say something along these lines:
"Oh, but maybe they don't actually want to be free."

Thank you and goodnight.

All in all, I understand everyone who likes this book and this series. It's just that I have read better books in my life, since my first read of this one. And the way I'm looking at reading books and what I seek in them - The Way of Kings simply doesn't provide anymore.
It's a shame he got lazy in creating these worlds. But given how his readers will glorify everything he does, he would be crazy not to exploit that.
Oh well...
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Reading Progress

Started Reading (Hardcover Edition)
June 23, 2015 – Finished Reading (Hardcover Edition)
June 24, 2015 – Shelved (Hardcover Edition)
October 9, 2017 – Started Reading
October 9, 2017 – Shelved
October 9, 2017 –
1.0% "For the fifth time!

Now, you can guess that there’s not the slightest doubt in my mind that this is gonna work. Right? :D"
October 9, 2017 –
2.0% ""White to be bold. White to not blend into the night. White to give warning.
For if you were going to assassinate a man, he was entitled to see you coming."


Well, Ninjas would disprove this logic, but... you do you, Szeth-son-son-Vallano, Truthless of Shinovar."
October 9, 2017 –
4.0% "Kalladin's introduction, as well as Brandon's description of confusion of the battle through Cenn's eyes, is probably one of the greatest chapters I have ever read in a fantasy book. Ever."
October 9, 2017 –
7.0% "Ah, Shallan! Forgot you were here as well... No, I wasn’t trying to avoid you, how could you possibly think such thing.
No, but I was extremely hopeful that you were nothing but a byproduct of my hallucinations.
I agree, we can’t always get what we wish for.
Trust me. I know."
October 9, 2017 –
10.0% ""Shallan realized that she'd naively been expecting Jasnah to be an ugly spinster..."

Shallan, you b*tch.

Ah, Jasnah. Spelled with a J, but pronounced with a Y. Yes, I’m aware that your creator was illiterate.
One has to wonder: was he equally confused how to pronounce your name?"
October 9, 2017 –
12.0% "Ah, Gaz... you are such a unique addition in this book. I have never, ever, in my life seen a character as you.

description

Nope. Never!"
October 9, 2017 –
13.0% ""Everything I have learned has come by way of great personal struggle.
What others were handed, I had to hunt.
Which would you rather have?
A ward who is able to repeat the correct answers because an overpriced tutor drilled them into her;
Or a ward who had to struggle and fight for everything she has learned?"


That moment when you start to admire Shallan. If you only didn't know she's full of sh*t."
October 9, 2017 –
17.0% "Well hello there, Teft. You blindly devoted, desperate in need of worshiping someone, Galladon's knock-off.

Now, we only need someone who'll, like Galladon in Elantris, constantly repeat nonsense in a local dialect... something like sule or kolo...
Ah, Lopen, there you are! Yes, gancho, you, get over here, gon!

Ahh, I'm having way too much fun with this book..."
October 10, 2017 –
18.0% "Today I went fishing and I caught one. Very lucky fish other fisherman said.
Cures aching joints for a good month after you eat it, and sometimes let you see when friends were going to visit by letting you read the shapes of the sound.

If I actually done that and wrote it here, people would call me crazy.
But if I put that in-between these "" things, people will say: stellar worldbuilding Mr Sanderson! Ahhh..."
October 10, 2017 –
18.0% "Waaaaait a sec. Grump? Thick-skinned? Bald? Friend!? Understand!!?

description

What! Are! You! Doing! Here!?

Huh, Brandon's Expendables mashup is still possible then... I dig it..."
October 11, 2017 –
19.0% "I've just now realized why so many people complained about movie Batman v Superman setting up the Justice League. Movie within a movie.
Here, these interludes do just that.

Anyway - Dalinar and Adolin!!! <33"
October 11, 2017 –
19.0% "“I can see you are a woman of discriminating taste.”
“I am. I do like my meals prepared very carefully, as my palate is quite delicate.”
“Pardon. I meant that you have discriminating taste in books.”
“I’ve never eaten one, actually.”


It's really not your fault, Shallan. You deserve better dialogue. And wit. And character. And story. And book. But most of all..."
October 12, 2017 –
22.0% ""A whore joke, Wit? Is that the best you can manage?"
"I point out truths when I see them, Brightlord Sadeas. Each man has his place. Mine is to make insults. Yours is to be in-sluts."


Somewhere a 12 year old laughed at this."
October 12, 2017 –
23.0% ""Sadeas's hand had gone to his sword. Not a Shardblade, for Sadeas didn't have one."

Yes. I needed a reminder, since I wasn't careful enough not a chapter ago when you mentioned it for the first time:

"The highprince hated that Adolin had a blade while Sadeas had none"

Or the second time:

<>"Sadeas was calling for his grandbow."<>

Let me guess. Since he didn't have a Shardblade, right?"
October 12, 2017 –
24.0% "Act 1:
Two heroes talking:

"See that sinister looking fellow? The only ugly guy in our story. The one who said he hates us and wants to kill us. Yeah, I bet he's the main villain."
"Nooo! How do you know that?"
"Hunch."

Act 2:
First big battle:

"Ugly sinister fellow! You saved us! You're clearly a good guy!"

Act 3:
Second big battle. Heroes dying:

"But... ugly fellow... why betraying us... such cliche..."

End."
October 12, 2017 –
30.0% "Jeez, does everyone need to be racist in this book?

Lighteyes hate anyone non-lighteye.
Darkeyes hate lighteyes and Parsh people.
Parshendi hate everyone, including themselves.
And since everyone hate Parsh people it only fits to make them main villains, right?

Can't find logic even if I'm crazy enough to try and argue with it."
October 13, 2017 – Finished Reading
September 8, 2022 –
22.0% ""A whore joke, Wit? Is that the best you can manage?"
"I point out truths when I see them, Brightlord Sadeas. Each man has his place. Mine is to make insults. Yours is to be in-sluts."


Somewhere a 12 year old laughed at this."

Comments Showing 1-50 of 138 (138 new)


message 1: by Sade (new)

Sade Ooooouchhhhhhhhhhh!!! Stefan this was brutal. Like when you have to do the "Finish him" move in the MK games ... I really need to read this book now..


Stefan ṣadé ọmọ Agbaje wrote: "Ooooouchhhhhhhhhhh!!! Stefan this was brutal. Like when you have to do the "Finish him" move in the MK games ... I really need to read this book now.."

Like when you rip Sub-Zero's spine. :D :D Read it. It's a must. And don't mind those 'it's amazing' as well as mine 'this is shit' reviews. Just enjoy yourself. :D


message 3: by Sade (new)

Sade I'll definitely keep an open mind when I read it.. :)


Amanda Wow, Stefan. I'll have to keep this all in mind for when I get around to a reread. Powerful review!


Stefan Thanks Amanda! :D Listen, it can bother you. Or it won't. It sure didn't bothered me first two, three times and then it hit me like a wall. :D


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

I love honest reviews my friend Keith wants to read the series and he wants to re read this one as well but I don’t really like re reads I always like to keep the memory of the first read 👍 but great review I enjoyed reading it👍


Stefan Thank you Steve! :D
I'm giving way too much credit or I'm simply going way too easy on some anonymous authors. I'm giving benefit of the doubt or I'm simply thinking 'okay, here's few minutes of the spotlight for you' for new authors. All while staying truthful about it.
Because people here are prone to respond to positive reviews more than to a negative one.
^Case in point.^ :D
So that's why I'm trying to sound as much positive as I can in order to nudge people towards a book so that they will read it and share their thoughts.

With Brandon I don't have to be like that anymore. Few years after those first reads and hundreds of books read in-between now I see problems here. I see place for improvement. Which I know I won't be getting because I know what awaits me in Words of Radiance, which is ever worse debacle than this. :D

So, if you don't like rereads, then don't read it again. It would be good though to share experience with him and compare your thoughts on it. But as you've said, it's a memory of the first read that you enjoy...
I'm not helping you, am I? :D :D


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin Good Lord! It took me forever to read this on the little phone 😂 Fantastic review though. Of course, I'm one of the lovers, but I must say, it doesn't hold a candle to Gardens of the Moon! 😊💕


Stefan Thanks Mel! :D Glad you enjoyed reading it! Ha! Nothing holds candle to that series! :D :D


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin You're most welcome 😄 And no! Omg! Well, until I get to that one book I'm going to throw across the room!!


message 11: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Hahahaha, many of us did just that. :D But damn it was worth it. Throwing a book and reading! :D


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin Lol, I can imagine. 😄 But, I don't want it to be. Sigh and sh*t!

Oh well, I'm still gonna read and love them all. 😊

I told my friend yesterday that when I review that book, it's just gonna be - I hate you, I hate you, you suck. The end. 😂 I'm not though!


message 13: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Hahahaha I totally get what you're saying! :D Okay, I'll telly you a secret then:
There are many, many, many, many more characters just like that in Malazan series. This was just a first book, you have 9 more. :D
I'm not helping you, I know. :D


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin Ha! I know. And I think it's the 8th book they said that the horrible thing happens. I made them tell me so I could be prepared. Anyhoo, I will be getting the rest of the series next week when I can afford it. Yay!! But I'm not going to read them all at once. I'm going to savor them and read a few books in between. It was sure hard to start another book after the first one though! 😳


message 15: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Yeah, it's the 8th one. But! Erikson will prepare you properly for that moment. There will be books throwing. And you'll want to hate it. But you won't be able. You'll see. :D
Yeah, it's really hit on the budget, I know. And whatever the course you think it's the best for you, just take it. And don't forget to enjoy. :D


message 16: by Ivan (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ivan What happened to your streamlined rating system?

I read better books than this one.>

This is main reason I had winter cleaning and lowered rating to most Sanderson's, Brett's and Lynch's books. Not for this book though I remember loving it and I still do make very long but valid point.

Despite it I think I would enjoy it same because I knew what I was getting into. I expected heroic fantasy with heroes larger than life and exaggerated virtues and awful, awful bad guys and book more than matched my expectations.



Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin Stefan wrote: "Yeah, it's the 8th one. But! Erikson will prepare you properly for that moment. There will be books throwing. And you'll want to hate it. But you won't be able. You'll see. :D
Yeah, it's really hit..."


I'm glad I'm prepared for it. It might help me from the throwing book phase! Yep, I'm getting them on the 19th, well that's the plan and take me sweet time 😊 I just wish I could get them all brand new in the larger paperback. They don't have all of them everywhere I searched so I'm sticking with the mass market paperbacks.

I wish they would make an art book! Big coffee table edition with the world as well. One can only wish!


message 18: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Ivan wrote: "What happened to your streamlined rating system?"

I'm making an exception for this series. :P
No, seriously though. You and your winter cleaning were on my mind reading and thinking how to rate this, because I'm facing winter cleaning myself, right now.
Also, I will include charts from now on and update existing series with ones as well. (And no, it's not because they look neat in my review - nor because it's fun making them - not at all! :D)

But they do help me focusing on writing a review. Those six things are what I'm mostly focusing on while reading, anyway. But somehow when I'm about to write a review everything seems messy and convoluted. So... I believe this will improve my writing and reviews.
And that leads me to updating my rating system, I guess.
Downside of this is: there will be bunch of twos and threes. Occasionally 4. Never 5. Only once 1, for now. :D

But I'm honestly dreading the task, and I really don't feel like spamming all of you with updates.

Anyhow. :D Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying. It was so different, so new, so strange, but at some point it didn't worked for me anymore.
And I hope I'm not coming out as nothing more than a hater, because I really don't hate his other books. I believe I made valid points.


message 19: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Melissa ♥ Dog Lover ♥ wrote: "I wish they would make an art book! Big coffee table edition with the world as well. One can only wish! "

They still don't have normal paperbacks?! I remember problems I had four years ago to find normal paperbacks so that I won't have to chose those mass market ones. Fu*k that sh*t.

Those pictures of Anomander Rake you used in your review are actually from a Gardens of the Moon art edition, or something like that. They made it like for first five books, I think. Maybe entire series. And I remember one of those costed around $100.
Yeah, mass market it is! :D
But I agree, it would be great to have one of those World of Westeros encyclopedias... sigh...


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin I want the art edition!!! I never saw that anywhere!

Yeah, on Amazon they had several in the big paperbacks and some a big fat no!! I mean what the hell?!! I love mass market, just not in tomes! It's hard on the eyes. They had what looked like some on Book Depository BUT they never list which is which!

I'm hoping they will re do them at some point or I will have to get them on kindle because the spines will be ruined after several reads just trying to hold the damn things open!

And thank you for talking about it with me. Most people don't talk to me about stuff 😊


message 21: by Stefan (last edited 14 oct. 2017 16:07) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan I checked it out right now, they are out of print, but here's what they were looking like:
https://subterraneanpress.com/catalog...
Now, maybe there's somewhere someone who's selling it, but I really don't wanna hear the price when some of those costed up to $300. :D

I have those standard paperbacks and I remember it was really hard finding them because always there would be just mass market and those bigger paperback edition, big as hardcover, but not a hardcover, you know.
Bonehunters was extremely hard to find I remember. So hard I even considered buying used one, which I never do. :D

My advice would be, if it still continues to be hard for you to find all editions you want, to go with kindle. It's cheaper, you'd be able to start sooner in-between the reads, and if it turns out that you really love the entire series, you could wait for a new publication of entire series, which I have no doubt at some point will be at the market.

No thank you, because I'm enjoying talking with you. :D Also, it's their loss, so don't you worry about that. :D


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin You're sweet 😊

I'm afraid to look at the link because I will want it and damn it all!!!

I guess I'm just going to get the mass market. I have the first one that way. I did consider used, but no!! Some of the covers are different though so maybe when I can afford it I will try Book Depository and see what I get. They have the mass paperback covers and the large paperback covers but it never says on their site and it could actually be their particular covers that ate a weird but cool small. Kinda in between mass and large paperback. My real life friend has the freaking hardbacks accept for one he could only get inpaperback. I am such a nerd with books. If it's something I love, I will get multiple covers and U.K. covers if they have them 😄

Plus, I'm getting them on Audible! Well, not all at once. You should see my wish list over there 😂

If worse comes to worse I will get the kindle in case I can't read them or will have to break the hell out of the spine! 😳 I don't like that.

I have a few days so I might can find them. I just wish Amazon would get their sh*t together!! Because I have Prime and get them quick. They have some of the larger paperbacks for $18 and some change! Hello, who do they think they are. They have one or two missing though. It seems like on a lot of books I go to get, they will have one missing!! They did get one back in from another series that I'm finally going to get. I think they are on crack! 😂😡


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin Omg!!!! I clicked the link. 😡😡😡😢😢😢😢😢😢. Damn them all!! I want them and uh, to be affordable!!!! Sigh...........


message 24: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Hahahaha, told you those books weren't for us poor mortals! :D :D
I hope you do find them though. Hahahaha, true everything you said there. But again, take in consideration that $18 for a 1000 pages 11 inch paperback isn't that bad. Although, they were published a decade ago, so again... I'm confused... :D

Yeah, there are two separate edition, one more thing I had to battle when I was buying his books.
I would totally buy all hardbacks, but I came late in the game, so even this I managed to buy I should be happy, lol
Oh, audibles are great! I'm listening GotM right now. It's voiced by amazing Ralph Lister and he was so great in them. He did first three books, before Michael Page continued the work.
Hahaha, I believe you. I gave up from following my wishlist considering how inconsistent I am with reading. Like I read first Riyira book in January, bought first two trilogies, and now they're waiting for me to get 'into the mood' for reading them. :D


Predrag Djokic Now redo "The Core" review with this kind of fault-finding attitude (so I can just link to it to go along with my own 2 star rating) :D :D


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin Stefan wrote: "Hahahaha, told you those books weren't for us poor mortals! :D :D
I hope you do find them though. Hahahaha, true everything you said there. But again, take in consideration that $18 for a 1000 pag..."


I know!!!! Why???? Do we have to be poor. Lol. Yeah, I have come really late to the game and will have to do what I can 😄 I will let you know if I get or find anything other than the masses 😊


message 27: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Predrag wrote: "Now redo "The Core" review with this kind of fault-finding attitude (so I can just link to it to go along with my own 2 star rating) :D :D"

Ayyy... telling others about their attitude. :D
No need for passive aggressiveness. It makes you sound salty.
Also, it's very rude telling others what they should or shouldn't do with their own reviews.
And you're allowed to express your own opinion and write a review. Yet you want to act like a parasite and wait for my effort?
And it's considered polite to ask for permission to use a link. Under fair use, you could use it whenever you want, yes. But as I said, it's polite to ask.
:D

And seriously, drop this passive aggressiveness on my updates and reviews. I'm not here for that shit. If you have something to say to me - say it.
If you don't like what I'm writing - you're following me, man. You know what to do.
I removed you once from my list because of this shit. Yet, now you're my follower. WTF?


message 28: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Melissa ♥ Dog Lover ♥ wrote: "Stefan wrote: "Hahahaha, told you those books weren't for us poor mortals! :D :D
I hope you do find them though. Hahahaha, true everything you said there. But again, take in consideration that $18..."


Hey, at least we don't get to experience an embarrassment of riches... sigh... :/ :D
Please do, I'm eager to find out. :D


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin Well, I just re-checked Amazon and they still have them all but the one in large paperback so I'm getting the mass markets on the 19th. And some of the ones they do have are $18 to $20! Then the others they have are like $10 to $13 which is okay. I guess it works out better for my budget to get the littles 😊 But I can always add the bigger ones used later on OR maybe they will be doing Anniversary editions! I want to get his other two that are out in hardback. The pre-quels. I think there is going to just be the three.


message 30: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Oh yesss, anniversary edition would be great! The best thing? That anniversary edition should be in a year and a half. :D
Hmm, that's what I was thinking. No need to spend a lot if there would be a new publication for anniversary, or at least reprint. Then you could go crazy on new ones! :D
Kharkanas? Fall of Light and the other one? If so, yeah, you are correct, that will be a trilogy. He announced a spin-off trilogy of a character you won't be meeting for couple of more books.
Damn it Mel! All this talks about Malazan... just two and a half more months and I'm starting ultimate chronological reading order of the series. This makes me wanna start at once! :D


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin Heh! I'm glad I could make you crave 😂 Now I was told by my friend that the new trilogy was about what's his head from the regular series. Wait, maybe that was something else he was talking about. I'm losing my damn mind! Well, losing it more!

So you're starting the books again or is there something I missed out on? My brain is slow right now!


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin And yes!!! I'm gonna wait and see about Anniversary editions. He has to! They have too! They better!


Predrag Djokic Stefan wrote: "No need for passive aggressiveness ...
..I removed you once from my list because of this shit. Yet, now you're my follower. WTF?"


I'm not being passive aggressive (or aggressive). My previous comment was meant as tongue-in-check / humorous way of observing & stating that you are not being consistent (or objective) in your newest reviews (the joke par being "requesting a redo" for The Core). Not sharing my (possibly bad or stupid) sense of humor doesn't mean that you should then go and first write something lie "BTW dude I removed your ass & you keep coming back" followed with "my follower" = implying I'm a stalker.

I don't keep records of who followed or unfollowed me... I followed your review for the same reasons I followed anyone's: you seemed to be reading similar kinds of books thus I can have some potential benefit in the future when considering reading some other books.

Since my comments are not welcomed I'll just refrain from making new ones (and that includes any further discussions about who meant what when he written something and who made wrong interpretation of things written).


message 34: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Melissa ♥ Dog Lover ♥ wrote: "Heh! I'm glad I could make you crave 😂 Now I was told by my friend that the new trilogy was about what's his head from the regular series. Wait, maybe that was something else he was talking about. ..."

Hahaha, oh my God!? :D:D Well you did! :D
Hahaha, that's probably something else he was talking about. :D Kharkanas trilogy, he has yet to finish, is about Mother Dark and Father Light and their children Tiste's. It's happening 300K years before the main series. And in this trilogy are all those legends you'll be hearing about while reading that main series.
His second trilogy, everyone's excited about, is about a character you'll meet at book 4 - Karsa Orlong. And you'll see why is everyone so excited about him getting his own trilogy. :D

I'm starting the so-called Ultimate Chronological reading order where I'll be reading everything written by both authors about this series, starting with Kharkanas Trilogy, short stories, Esslemont's novels and then I'll move up and reread for the third time the main series. :D The reason why I was waiting so long for this is because I've just now collected (almost) entire series. :D :D

I hope so! I need those hardbacks! :D


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin Omg!!! Yes, he kept talking about some other dude and I was getting lost and now I remember he told me what you did about those new ones. Lol.

Um, could you send me a link to that other author? And whenever you have time message me a chrono list? I think I'm going to pass out from all this damn excitement!!! 😳


message 36: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Ha! Told you! I'm a Malazan Encyclopedia. :D Don't worry, there are so many more characters, as fascinating as Anomandaris Rake. You're in safe hands. :D

Sure! Here are novels that are happening at the same time when first series
https://www.goodreads.com/series/4251...
And here is his new trilogy that happens slightly before Gardens of the Moon
https://www.goodreads.com/series/1598...

Now, this is Ultimate reading order
https://www.goodreads.com/series/173946
But they have completely fuc*ed up order so I'm actually following this order:
https://www.goodreads.com/series/49674
Which starts with Kharkanas trilogy and continues with Path to Ascendancy instead with Gardens of the Moon.
Also, here's Malazan Wiki:
http://malazan.wikia.com/wiki/Suggest...
Where you can chose the order most suited for you. And also, website you should avoid because you can spoil everything. :D

If I haven't lost you, I would be extremely positively surprised. :D


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin Omg! I'm going to have to figure all of this out!! How dare you 😂


message 38: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan I tried to explain the issue with book chronology and reading order inside the MBoF series itself - and then gave up, because even I managed to confuse myself. :D Who knows what I would do to you. :D:D


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin Omg! I just wrote all that stuff out in my notebook! Some of it's not out yet.

Then I saw your order.

And that website freaked me out. Lol. I just stepped into the world and now I'm knee deep in it. I have to go add Ian's books to my wishlist. So my deal will be to read all of the 10 books first. Well, 9 now and then either go back to chronological order or just take the hell off and read all printed material and then come back to chrono. You realize I'm not going to live that long right? 😳


message 40: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Oh no no! Definitely start with and only with 10 books of Malazan BoF. It's the best way to get into the world. And that series alone is way overwhelming, let alone for first reader to tackle everything. No. This is the right way you chose, just stick to it, and enjoy.
Trust, I have seen this many times, not three months after you finish the series, you'll start asking yourself: "should I maybe reread it? I mean... it's been three months. That's a lot to be without books that emotionally destroyed me.... Why do I hate myself so much, why do I wanna torture myself?" and that kinda stuff. :D :D And that's when you should start with chronological order. :D

Listen, I'm a semi-fast reader. And I managed to finish this series in just 10 days. And I have seen your updates. You're twice faster reader than me. If it hooks you that much that you decide to leave everything else behind until you finish it - you're done in two months. With no hurry whatsoever. :D


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin I have to read some books in between. I get freaking ansty. And I'm trying to slow down due to health bullsht!

Oh, and I looked up Ian on Amazon and his damn books are the same as freakin' Steven's. There's one missing in a set. However, I did find some of both authors books on BookOutlet so I'm playing it all by ear. And if worse comes to worse I will get them on kindle. But I would sure like to see one shelf full of these dudes books!! 😄

We shall see. I'm going to go through my 10 (9) first and take off from there. And I'm getting these all on audible as I can do I can listen to them too! Every time I try to get my wishlists down, a whole other set of books come along. 😂 I love it though!


Silvana pretty much what I felt about the book. I think the prologue is the best part.


message 43: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Melissa ♥ Dog Lover ♥ wrote: "I have to read some books in between. I get freaking ansty. And I'm trying to slow down due to health bullsht!

Oh, and I looked up Ian on Amazon and his damn books are the same as freakin' Steven..."


You'll want to read something different in-between, especially when you experience Malazan fatigue. Trust me, you will. :D

I bought Ian's books on kindle. All except for first book in Path of the Ascendancy series.
I have changed my opinion of kindle since beginning of this year.
"Who do you call when book you we're waiting for comes out and you don't wanna wait for shipping? Kindle!" :D
But I did kinda changed my opinion out of necessity. There's simply no room on my bookshelves. There's no room for bookshelves. There's no room! :D

I think you'll like audio versions of them. They've done a good job there.


message 44: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Silvana wrote: "pretty much what I felt about the book. I think the prologue is the best part."

For a year and a half I'm reading fantasy books like crazy and it simply doesn't hold up, not just to my reading tastes, but to common sense. :D
I guess we'll find that out in 20 years in 7th book. :D


message 45: by Arjan (new) - rated it 4 stars

Arjan de Vries I stopped mreading when you don't seem to understand the first prologue even after five readthroughs. You probably misunderstand other things as well. Seems like a clever review, but it really isn't.


message 46: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan Arjan wrote: "you don't seem to understand the first prologue even after five readthroughs."

You forgot to mention even four reads of second book, as well. :D Enlightenment must have skipped me, what can I say. I'm glad you're enjoying reading it. Cheers! :D


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin Stefan wrote: "Melissa ♥ Dog Lover ♥ wrote: "I have to read some books in between. I get freaking ansty. And I'm trying to slow down due to health bullsht!

Oh, and I looked up Ian on Amazon and his damn books a..."


There is never enough room. Lol. I know I'm gonna love the audio because I listened to a sample. I'm so excited for re-reads that way. And I haven't even gotten the second book yet. 😂


message 48: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan There's not enough room of - anything! :D :D
I think I told you, like, a hundred times by now, and I think... no, I know I should tell you again how audio is great. Ralph Lister is amazing in first three books.
Michael Page is also great, he did job differently and you will probably gonna need some time to get used to the new voice, and once you do - it's sailing. :D
Ralph did many variations, so many I don't know how he still have a voice. :D
Michael's voice is great when it comes to comedic characters and their interactions among themselves...


Melissa ♥ Dog/Wolf Lover ♥ Martin I better like the change damn it!!

And I will show my pile when I buy the mass markets Thursday and the get here 😊 Oh the joy!


message 50: by Stefan (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stefan You will eventually, when you hear humor in his voice and start laughing so hard your stomach hurts. :D
Oi! That's in three days! Great! :D I love your excitement for it! It makes me excited as well! :D
I'm so gonna start reading this series in a month! :D


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