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Gary Inbinder's Reviews > The Republic

The Republic by Plato
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bookshelves: ancient-lit, philosophy, political-science
Read 3 times. Last read March 18, 2017 to April 30, 2017.

This is my first GR review without a star rating. Here’s the reason why.

I don’t like Plato’s Republic, but I think it ought to be read more than once. I didn’t like it when I first read it almost 50 years ago, and my opinion hasn’t changed over the years. Nevertheless, I think it’s an important book that should be read, analyzed and debated. In that regard, it’s much like Hitler’s Mein Kampf. Both books are, in my opinion, prescriptions for tyranny, the two sides of the same counterfeit coin. However, I won't compare Plato to Hitler. I believe Plato meant well, but more of that later.

Hitler was the prime modern example of a populist demagogue who based his “might makes right” ideology on race, blood and soil. “Justice,” for Hitler, was grounded on the “right” of the Aryan Superman to dominate and rule those inferior to himself. It followed that oppression, war and genocide could be justified when done in the name of the “Master Race” and their “Aryan Superman Leader.”

Plato despised the populist demagogues of his time, the products of ancient Athenian democracy, most particularly because he blamed them for the unjust death of his mentor, Socrates. Plato argued for a Republic governed by those most fit to rule, the Men and Women of Gold, the philosopher kings and queens. “Justice” for Plato, was grounded on the “right” of the ”best and brightest” to dominate and rule those who were naturally inferior to themselves. The justification for this peculiar form of injustice was that the naturally superior were "experts" who would rule the naturally inferior for their own good. In my opinion it follows that oppression, war and genocide could be justified when done in the name of “The City State and the People” by the reigning “Men and Women of Gold.” In other words, Plato’s Republic could be an authoritarian hell. If you want to argue that Plato’s hell was at least well intended, I’d refer to the old adage about the road paved with good intentions and where that road leads.

Hitler was the rattler who gives a warning before he bites. Plato was subtler. He used the Cave metaphor, an example of his idealistic epistemology, to show how some people have the special insight to see things as they really are, whereas the masses only see things as they appear to be. Therefore, the ignorant masses are always subject to the popular opinion of the moment.

Plato sets up his typical straw man arguments about justice, to get to the definition of justice that he wants: A system where the masses “mind their own business” leaving the experts, the “Men and Women of Gold” i.e. people like Plato, to run things for the common good. What’s more, he justifies propaganda in the form of a “Noble Lie” or "Noble Myth" to convince the masses that they are inferior, by analogy made of baser metal, and must submit to the will of their superiors “for their own good.”

I assume H.L Mencken agreed with Plato when he wrote: “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” Mencken was writing about U.S. politics in the 1920’s-1930’s. I wonder what he’d think of U.S. politics today? Plato was writing about Athenian politics, their ancient democracy, and other systems of government 2,500 years ago. I haven't a clue what he'd think of the 21st century.

Plato’s world is so remote in time and space that we can barely imagine it; Mencken’s world is still within the memory of the oldest among us, but it’s still distant and hard for the young to understand. Things change yet much remains the same. Governments are instituted by human beings, and all humans are subject to the same flaws and weaknesses as our ancestors. Imperfect beings will never develop a perfect form of government. Nevertheless, I believe that a Constitutional Republic with democratic processes and a rule of law that guarantees the rights of individuals, and that promotes equality, Abraham Lincoln’s “Government of, by and for the people”, is still about as good as it gets. As for Plato’s Republic, it’s a Utopian thought experiment. Government by an ostensibly “benign” elite of “intellectuals” and technocrats with little or no respect for individual rights has been tried and found wanting. Robespierre’s “Committee of Public Safety"* is an early modern example of the sort of hell that arises from the “good intentions” of Plato and others. Repeating that experiment over and over again while expecting a different result is worse than insane—it’s downright evil.

I recommend reading Robespierre's speech The Republic of Virtue (1794) and considering it in light of Plato's Republic, a good test of thought experiment as applied to reality.
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Reading Progress

September 21, 1968 – Started Reading
October 1, 1968 – Finished Reading
August 30, 2000 – Started Reading
September 29, 2000 – Finished Reading
March 18, 2017 – Started Reading
April 30, 2017 – Finished Reading
May 18, 2017 – Shelved
May 18, 2017 – Shelved as: ancient-lit
May 18, 2017 – Shelved as: philosophy
May 18, 2017 – Shelved as: political-science

Comments Showing 1-14 of 14 (14 new)

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message 1: by Steve (new)

Steve Superb review, Gary. Full of scholarly insights and fully supported opinions.


message 2: by Gary (last edited 25 mai 2017 02:50) (new) - added it

Gary Inbinder Steve wrote: "Superb review, Gary. Full of scholarly insights and fully supported opinions."

Thanks, Steve! I think The Republic is important because it implies the conflict between a philosopher's Utopian ideal and the real. One person's "idea" of heaven can be another person's hell. And when a group of individuals gain power and try to impose their will on the masses in the form of a Utopian ideal we learn from history that you get guillotines, Gulags and Gestapos. To paraphrase an old adage often attributed to Robespierre, it takes a lot of broken "eggs" to make the Utopian omelette.


message 3: by Steve (new)

Steve I'm sure that conflict you mention plays out every day and everywhere. I like your metaphor, too, as well as Gary's grievous gallows-like alliteration.


message 4: by Alan (new)

Alan Seems to me comparing anyone to Hitler undermines an argument. For instance, Picasso shared with Hitler an urge to paint, and an urge toward radical change. (Of course, Hitler hated Modernism, but...) As for Plato, there's so much historical context, the Peloponnesian War ending in the defeat of Athens' Republic by Sparta's military tyrrany (more Hitlerian than Plato's Republic?)...then Socrates's possible accession to the Thirty Tyrants, and later, Plato's teaching Aristotle, who taught Alexander, and died the year after his young student Emperor died near Bagdad. (Could be off.) I admit to preferring Plato's Socratic Dialogs to the Republic, but I really don't turn to either regularly, possibly because I don't read Greek, and have never trusted to translations for my favorite readings. I might argue that the US Constitution is a Utopian ideal which did NOT produce guillotines--and this really pisses off the French to this day, who must be reveling in our current President to justify their long-held sense of superiority. Weren't Adams and Jefferson and Quincy Adams etc all a "group of individuals imposing their will on the masses" for a Utopian ideal--and now, people with guns are citing those Utopian ideals with a slight twist. You might call it a Platonic twist, but I'd say it's more Robespierrian. Well, I ramble...I really should look at the Republic again. I rather liked it when I read it, under my Freshman Humanities professor, the Virgil translator Rolfe Humphries.


message 5: by Gary (last edited 26 mai 2017 17:12) (new) - added it

Gary Inbinder Alan wrote: "Seems to me comparing anyone to Hitler undermines an argument. For instance, Picasso shared with Hitler an urge to paint, and an urge toward radical change. (Of course, Hitler hated Modernism, but...."

I don't think I compared Plato to Hitler; I compared The Republic to Mein Kampf as two examples of books that, if followed literally, are prescriptions for totalitarianism. I also tried to make a distinction based on time and place, ancient Greece versus Germany between the World Wars, and Plato's good intentions versus Hitler's evil ones. However, I'll admit that bringing Hitler into any discussion does tend to undermine an argument, if it's an unfair comparison.

I don't think the US Constitution is in any sense Utopian. It's pragmatic and the product of experience, heated debate and compromise. It's been amended many times and was severely tested, and subsequently amended, following a bloody Civil War. Moreover, it's been broadly, some would argue too broadly, interpreted by the majorities on any number of Supreme Courts. Nevertheless, it's survived and, in my opinion, is still quite healthy and even robust after more than two centuries, which is saying something.

All your points are well-taken, but I'm still of the opinion that the U.S. Republic, messy as it can be, is still about as good as it gets. As for Plato's Republic, I think it's a nice "thought experiment" for those who prefer the ideal to the real. And, like all Plato's dialogues, it's very well written, though I don't read Greek and have only read Plato in translation.


message 6: by Alan (new)

Alan Thanks for your thorough response.


message 7: by Gary (new) - added it

Gary Inbinder Alan wrote: "Thanks for your thorough response."

And thank you for your very thoughtful and well-informed comment.


message 8: by Gary (new) - added it

Gary Inbinder Marita wrote: "Gary, thank you for your excellent analysis."

Thanks, Marita. The Republic's one of those books that's stuck in my mind for five decades. Some of those ideas raised by Socrates/ Plato have wormed their way into my own writing, so for better or worse those ancient Greek philosophers have had their influence on me. ;)


message 9: by Gary (new) - added it

Gary Inbinder Marita wrote: "As they are wont to do... :-)"

Indeed. You opened your review of The Hanged Man with a quote: "Is perception reality, Etienne?" a line inspired by Plato's Allegory of the Cave. ;)


H (trying to keep up with GR friends) Balikov Gary wrote: "Marita wrote: "As they are wont to do... :-)"

Indeed. You opened your review of The Hanged Man with a quote: "Is perception reality, Etienne?" a line inspired by Plato's Allegory of the Cave. ;)"


As with many GR reviews, they spark a great discussion.


message 11: by Gary (new) - added it

Gary Inbinder HBalikov wrote: "Gary wrote: "Marita wrote: "As they are wont to do... :-)"

Indeed. You opened your review of The Hanged Man with a quote: "Is perception reality, Etienne?" a line inspired by Plato's Allegory of t..."


Thanks! I've enjoyed reading your reviews. Always perceptive. ;)


message 12: by P.E. (new) - rated it 4 stars

P.E. Would you mind linking this speech by Robespierre, Gary? I'm keenly interested by that!


message 13: by Gary (new) - added it

Gary Inbinder P.E. wrote: "Would you mind linking this speech by Robespierre, Gary? I'm keenly interested by that!"

GR isn't allowing the link, P.E. It must be a new policy re: adding links to comments. I understand GR's concern for security reasons.

"For the safety of our members, links to other sites are not allowed in comments. Please edit your comment and try again."

If you Google Robespierre "The Republic of Virtue" (1794) you will find reputable sites that provide the entire speech. It's not long, but I think it gives you the gist of his political thought.


message 14: by P.E. (new) - rated it 4 stars

P.E. Thanks!


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