Re: [LogiLogi-list] User Interfase Proposal A

Again an answer that is not as extended as it should be, becaue of
time limits. I will be on the road again tomorrow, and I don't know if
there will be any internet.

Your UI-proposal looks good, that first of all :)

I like many of the ideas in there. Will come back to them later.

Some are the peergroup-selection on top, the toolbar at the bottom,
the help-icons, and the labels with the tags. I also like the merging
of the search and found-bars.

Still I think that some of the style and coloring is not so suitable
for the target audience, as Andrew specially selected colors and
style-elements to make it look more authorative/humanities-like.

Also I think that the logi-info should be shown together, like the
remarks, the meta-data, etc... That's why the remarks currently are in
the left menus-column.

About immediate remarking. I just seen this interesting idea in a
desktop-app called Sophie (for book-editing). When an user selects
some text it shows some icons at the mouse-position. Have to think
about it a bit more, but it seems good :)

About the front-page I just committed a quick & dirty stub
implementation which still needs some work before it can go live.

More later,

Wybo

> I've been working over the UI_proposal_A.svg. Here is some
> explanation/justification of my changes and other stuff:
> 
> = Overview
> Well, in general I tried to apply some ideas I've previously mention.
> This is not finished yet as you will notice, and I'm sharing it so we
> can work it together if you all like. I'd really would like to work
> all together to end up with a better interface for Logilogi.
> 
> All of this is my personal view of a better logilogi, and all are
> proposals, just that, and some of them are radical and experimental
> that should be tested to prove they work in case we all agree to use
> them.
> 
> Also as this is not finished, there are obvious bits left, like the
> sidebars that where not changed much (apart from some styling). I've
> focused mostly on the headers, tried to define estyles that would work
> site-wide, "clean-up" the logi space, enfasize the peer-group
> perspective and your power (as one of the most important parts of LL),
> the rating and also the "new logi" action, as to promote people to
> rate.
> 
> Last but not least, this is a scratch and it's not perfect in the
> aspects of positions, margins, separations, sizes (although I've paid
> most attention to them), etc. Colors for example are proposed but not
> definitive as I need some testing still.
> 
> = Colors
> Well, I've done lot's of color schemes test. I end up with blue, like
> in many web apps we see arround and also many desktop software, and
> that's because blue works very good on screen. Also I've also been
> attracted to blue links (like default) and that makes blue a good
> companion.
> 
> = Fonts
> I've used font families and sizes but just as example to work over the
> layout and other concepts, but the definitive styles will take another
> approach, and I prefer working them right from the CSS, although they
> might end up looking similar to what they are now, but not the same.
> For example, the logi text would work better on a browser, somehow
> inkscape ads a little bold.
> 
> = Header
> I've made many tests of color schemes, sizes, shapes, etc, and I've
> found that a heavy header helps the rest of the structure, so that's
> why the heavy-dark-blue header.
> 
> = Navigation bar - too many tags
> I always tend to be minimalistic, and since some time I've been
> thinking of a very minimalistic interfase for LL, which would consist
> of only one search box where everything would happen, suggestion,
> dynamic tag coloring (assigning content and context as typing), and
> also very ajaxyfied. So that would be some radical approach. In this
> case, we would be repeating tags only two times if we count the URL
> bar as our first input.
> 
> Now at LL we've got tags repeated 3 times only at the navigation bar.
> I do understand why they are and I also think they are necessary now,
> but we should keep it in mind.
> 
> The other thing I see problematic about the tags is it's order for
> context and content, which is wrote 2 times each way, and I think it's
> confusing. We've discussed a lot about this [0]. I think we should go
> either way, but not mix them. I still fill query way more intuitive.
> 
> So, I did some changes.
> 
> I wrote "requested" (like old times) but still not sure what's the
> best, maybe it's searched for:, don't know.
> 
> I kind of merged the current "search" and "searched for" bar into one,
> and split the search in two, which I think will help users to
> understand what they are doing. It's an easy and effective way I
> believe, still have to test it.
> 
> = Main menu
> I think "activity" is a more descriptive name for what I imagine will
> have that section, since we will have logi-changes, last remarks,
> comments, etc... what do you think?
> 
> Also we could use a bit more wording for "tags", I don't know what,
> but we need to make clear that there you will find all logis...
> 
> = Logi toolbar
> I've give a try to this new approach. All logi-related actions to the
> bottom, and this was because when you finish reading a logi is when
> you want to use this tools, but also becouse they disturb most of the
> time since they are not used, but this is just a proposed idea.
> 
> = Icons
> I started to do some approaches to icons. I tested a linking-icon at
> the searched tags showing one-to-many, they are very communicative and
> explanatory, I'd like to use more of this. I actually used them on
> first approaches but then I didn't add them again, and now I just
> placed them to see what you all think, but I'm not sure if they are so
> explanatory.
> I also made a simple "logi" icon... I could start building other
> icons, but first the general aesthetic should be defined, in case it
> changes from what is now.
> 
> = Links
> Right now you see links not underlined, but I pretend to test later
> how underline works as I think is the best approach. Inkscape don't
> has underline style for text so I didn't do it at first. In HTML is
> easier to test if it works or not.
> 
> = Buttons
> I've defined a standard button style, grey background and link in
> blue, which works for buttons and select boxes, but this is just a
> test, as select boxes should probably still be default styled for a
> while, later we could do a javascript+css dropdown, which are nice.
> Also, I've made an exception of button for the "create new logi" as to
> enfasize it, and play with the association of blue with the logi.
> 
> = Overbox
> I've been thinking for a while about a logi-centered design, for which
> I mean that most things happen within the logi (marking, commenting,
> editing). Also now while using it, I realized the overbox for editing
> anything is very annoying and obstructive. My proposal is to not use
> any more over boxes for any kind of edition, and use them (or popovers
> like logilinks) just for showing any static information. Also popups
> are very confusing for most people I think.
> 
> By now, we could some-how fix the overbox problems by changing the
> transparent background by a solid white background (which I also think
> is nicer), and I would also suggest not closing it when clicking
> outside the box, and just do it when clicking the close cross or
> cancel, submit, etc.
> 
> = Logi centered design
> I've been thinking of ways to start doing a logi centered design and
> interaction, which means that we could select text from the logi and
> comment right there without leaving (or poping) to another page/logi,
> and modifying settings right there, maybe with a shrinking box that
> appears, all without loosing focus on the logi. For this Wybo already
> explained the difficulties, so I've been thinking how to solve them.
> 
> I've been thinking that we could print the logi without links and
> remarks and add them dynamically through javascript, and only when
> needed. This way we could have always a plain text (or just basic
> tags) so we might have more control over the logi... You might already
> though about this and maybe it's just too difficult to do, but I see
> it would be a start for the next interactive LL :)
> 
> = People lost on logilogi
> Although for us it might be obvious, still people is getting lost in
> Logilogi (the current public beta), although now everybody has
> understood much more than before (previous UI). People would say to me
> "I've searched for Idealims (or anything) and nothing appears", and
> this express what people hopes to find, and for this we need to
> improve the frontpage (as the new one will certainly do), and make all
> sections more expresive, that is certainly the next step. This would
> take another mail so we can talk about each part closely.
> 
> = Next steps
> Next I'll be working on the sidebars, their content and style. Right
> now, for example, My Settings has duplicated options for peergroup as
> they are on the header now too.
> 
> = Old list mails
> While researching about the previous tagging discussion, I found the
> first mails I wrote to the list, and I realized that right now we are
> doing what we where talking two years ago we would do, and just before
> reading this I made my first logi about the first "thoughts" I talked
> Wybo about, in our first conversation on the list... things are going
> just fine :)
> 
> Well, I think that was enough, looking forward the critics.
> 
> Greetings!
> 
> [0] http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=20070704201750.GA30673%40logilogi.org&forum_name=logilogi-list
> 
> -- 
> Bruno
> 
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