Re: ifupdown maintenance

 ` Daniel Gröber
   ` Martin-Éric Racine
     ` Santiago Ruano Rincón [this message]
       ` Martin-Éric Racine
       ` Daniel Gröber
         ` Santiago Ruano Rincón
           ` Julien Fortin
           ` Daniel Gröber
             ` Martin-Éric Racine
               ` Josh Triplett
               ` Martin-Éric Racine
               ` Andrej Shadura
       ` Sean Whitton
         ` Martin-Éric Racine
           ` Santiago Ruano Rincón
             ` Martin-Éric Racine
               ` Replacing isc-dhcp-client with dhcpcd-base (Was: ifupdown maintenance) Daniel Gröber
                 ` Colin Watson
                 ` Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
                   ` Daniel Gröber
             ` ifupdown maintenance Sean Whitton
   ` Martin-Éric Racine
     ` Marco d'Itri
       ` Matthias Urlichs
         ` Bjørn Mork
           ` Simon McVittie
             ` Thomas Goirand
           ` Matthias Urlichs
             ` Bjørn Mork
               ` Marco d'Itri
             ` Stephan Seitz
         ` default network management tools (was: ifupdown maintenance) Simon McVittie
           ` Bernd Zeimetz
             ` default network management tools Michael Biebl
               ` Thomas Goirand
                 ` Lukas Märdian
             ` default network management tools (was: ifupdown maintenance) Marc Haber
               ` default network management tools Matthias Urlichs
                 ` Marco d'Itri
                   ` Marc Haber
           ` Thomas Goirand
           ` default network management tools (was: ifupdown maintenance) Santiago Ruano Rincón
         ` ifupdown maintenance Simon Richter
           ` Luca Boccassi
             ` Simon Richter
               ` Marco d'Itri
                 ` Simon Richter
                   ` Ansgar 🙀
                     ` Marc Haber
                       ` Jose Luis Tallon
                     ` Simon Richter
                       ` Andrej Shadura
                   ` Marco d'Itri
                   ` Matthias Urlichs
           ` Ansgar 🙀
             ` Simon McVittie
               ` what about Netplan? Philip Hands
                 ` Marco d'Itri
                   ` Lukas Märdian
                     ` Luca Boccassi
                       ` Lukas Märdian
                         ` Andrey Rakhmatullin
                           ` Luca Boccassi
                             ` Philip Hands
                               ` Luca Boccassi
                             ` Steve McIntyre
                               ` Simon McVittie
                                 ` Luca Boccassi
                                 ` Cyril Brulebois
                                 ` Lukas Märdian
                                   ` Marvin Renich
                                     ` Lukas Märdian
                                       ` Marvin Renich
                                   ` Luca Boccassi
                                     ` Steve Langasek
                                       ` Luca Boccassi
                                     ` thomas
                                   ` Marc Haber
                                     ` Lukas Märdian
                                       ` thomas
                                         ` Lukas Märdian
                                       ` Jose Luis Tallon
                                         ` Lukas Märdian
                                       ` Stephan Seitz
                                         ` Colin Watson
                                         ` Philip Hands
                                           ` gregor herrmann
                                             ` Luca Boccassi
                                             ` Philip Hands
                                             ` Lukas Märdian
                                               ` Ansgar 🙀
                                                 ` Matthias Urlichs
                                                   ` Arne Pisch
                                         ` Lukas Märdian
                                           ` Stephan Seitz
                                 ` Luca Boccassi
                                   ` Lukas Märdian
                                   ` Size measuring contest (Was: what about Netplan?) Daniel Gröber
                                     ` Luca Boccassi
                               ` what about Netplan? Thomas Goirand
                                 ` Guus Sliepen
                 ` Lukas Märdian
                   ` Cyril Brulebois
                     ` Noah Meyerhans
                 ` Thomas Goirand
               ` ifupdown maintenance Luca Boccassi
         ` Michael Stone
           ` Chris Hofstaedtler
     ` Daniel Gröber
       ` Martin-Éric Racine
         ` Daniel Gröber
           ` Martin-Éric Racine
             ` Daniel Gröber
               ` Martin-Éric Racine
             ` Jose Luis Tallon
           ` Michael Stone
             ` Ansgar 🙀
               ` Michael Stone
   ` Vincent Bernat
     ` Marco d'Itri

El 07/07/24 a las 18:02, Martin-Éric Racine escribió:
> su 7. heinäk. 2024 klo 16.56 Daniel Gröber (dxld@darkboxed.org) kirjoitti:
> > On Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 12:38:34PM +0300, Martin-Éric Racine wrote:
> > > While discussing pending issues with Santiago (ifupdown's de-facto
> > > maintainer), we came to the conclusion that team maintenance of just
> > > one ifupdown implementation would be a better way to go than having 3
> > > different implementations of the same.
> >
> > Is that discussion public? What's the reasoning of that conclusion?
> 
> Not until now.

Thanks Martin-Éric for initiating the discussion, and Daniel for making
it public. The topic should have had to be discussed openly at some
point.

> Basically, there's pending issues involving ifupdown and DHCP clients
> that I've randomly discussed with Santiago.
> 
> One of these is to swap the default DHCP client (isc-dhcp-client
> i.e.dhclient to dhcpcd-base).
> 
> Another is the plethora of unresolved issues with ifupdown and
> Santiago's limited time to devote to its maintenance. He initially
> asked if I'd be interested in maintaining it, then pondered whether
> having 3 implementations even makes sense to begin with. I suggested
> contacting the maintainers of all 3 implementation to discuss this.

[...]

> > > This e-mail is meant to launch discussion over which of the 3
> > > implementations would be the best candidate for this.
> >
> > Santiago, how do you feel about ifupdown's future maintainability and
> > feature development? I honestly never looked into why people started
> > writing ifupdown replacements. I had my own gripes with it so I never
> > questioned it but I'm happy to hear why we should all rally around it.
> 
> I've long wondered how we ended up with so many implementations. Team
> maintenance of just one implementation would make more sense.
> 
> > For me the reason to work on ifupdown-ng is that it has a better core
> > design, clean&modern code, an active upstream community, a ***test suite***

I fully acknowledge this. After trying to fix some of the ifupdown bugs
but hitting some design issues, I think it makes more sense to focus all
the efforts in just one of the implementations, and since ifupdown-ng
has all the above mentioned advantages, I'd would be in favor of
replacing ifupdown by ifupdown-ng...

> > and the potential to fully replace ifupdown without breaking anyone's
> > system doing it. Full compatibility is not there yet. I'm working on it,
> > see [1] but I'm optimistic so far.
> >
> > [1]: https://github.com/ifupdown-ng/ifupdown-ng/issues/247
> 
> Noted.

... but it would be *great* to make ifupdown-ng a drop-in replacement
first.

> > From where I'm sitting ifupdown2 is completely out of the question as *the*
> > Debian ifupdown since it doesn't even support *basic* IPv6 use-cases like
> > DHCPv6. Upstream community seems nonexistant since this is software by a
> > corp for a corp where community building was probably never the
> > goal. Admittedly I didn't look very hard, this is just my impression
> > currently.
> 
> That's also my impression.

and the python dependency makes me consider ifupdown2 as not an option.

> > DHCP on the other hand affects us all. I'd be very much on board with
> > pooling resources around that.
> 
> dhcpcd covers both v4 and v6 transparently and also provides IPv6-PD.
> The current plan is to swap ifupdown's default to prefer it to
> dhclient and to swap Priority between dhclient and dhcpcd-base.

And we would need to the change in the override first, isn't it?
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1038882

Cheers,

 -- Santiago


Attachment: signature.asc (type=application/pgp-signature)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iHUEABYIAB0WIQR+lHTq7mkJOyB6t2Un3j1FEEiG7wUCZowEYQAKCRAn3j1FEEiG
70jqAQD1VUd047ka8VvQuyb48OBbVzj28QG1616zcsRX+3yzpwD/eWtMHxp7Lf5G
ue3mucH93QIzLIZJwDYdLZ1GH73/5g0=
=g2HM
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----