In Finnish we have ākissanristiƤisetā (literally means a catās christening), which means some trivial and meaningless celebration/event.
Thereās a bunch of weird ones in Portuguese.
- āCaroƧo de manga nĆ£o Ć© saboneteā Do you think that mango seed is soap? = āthis is an absurd proposal/situation/etc.ā
- āPobre sĆ³ sobe na vida quando o barraco explodeā Poor people only ascend on life when the [shit]shack explodes. = ādonāt expect social ascensionā
- āEnquanto vem com o milho, jĆ” comi a polenta.ā While youāre bringing the corn, I already ate the polenta. = āIāve already handled this, youāre too late.ā
- āum polaco de cada colĆ“niaā a Pole from each settlement = a bunch of randomly picked people or items. I donāt think that people use this too much outside ParanĆ”.
- āfarinha do mesmo sacoā flour from the same bag = extremely similar in some aspects that matter (and usually negative ones)
- ācomer o pĆ£o que o diabo amassouā to eat the bread kneaded by the devil = to go through rough times
- āVai chupar prego atĆ© virar tachinha!ā Go suck an [iron] nail until it becomes a thumbtack! = somewhat polite way to tell someone to fuck off
- āVai ver se estou na esquina.ā *Go check if Iām around the corner." = also a way to tell people to fuck off
- āanta quadradaā squared tapir = āantaā tapir is used to call someone stupid, so anta quadrada is stupid to the power of two.
- āanta cĆŗbicaā cubed tapir = because some people do some really, really stupid shit.
- āmais louco que o RequiĆ£o de pedalinhoā crazier than RequiĆ£o on a paddle boat = RequiĆ£o is a politician here in ParanĆ” known for his crazy antics. The phrase highlights that something is completely fucking crazy. Clearly local.
- āteu cuā your arse[hole] = definitively, clearly, and blatantly ānoā.
āWhile youāre bringing corn, I already ate the polentaā is brutal
Small note, this is Brazilian Portuguese š§š· (PT-BR), not European Portuguese šµš¹ (PT-PT). I never heard most of these. We do have the āfarinha do mesmo sacoā and ācomer o pĆ£o que o diabo amassouā though.
One important detail is that those country-based labels are at most abstractions or geographical terms. āBrazilian Portugueseā and āEuropean Portugueseā arenāt actual, well-defined dialects; what people actually speak is local, in both sides. (e.g. āPaulistano Portugueseā, āAlentejano Portugueseā, āEstremenho Portugueseā, you get the idea.)
This is relevant here because I wouldnāt be surprised if plenty Brazilians never heard some of those. For example, āum polaco de cada colĆ“niaā only makes sense in ParanĆ”, Polish immigration here was large enough to make some people call other immigrants āPolesā, even Germans and Italians. So the āPoles from each colonyā are usually people/things that you might think that are related, but have zero to do with each other.
Youāre not wrong but the way I see it itās a hierarchical term.
Portuguese - all Portuguese based languages Brazilian Portuguese - all Portuguese dialects in Brazil European Portuguese - all Portuguese dialects in Portugal Angolan Portuguese - all Portuguese dialects in Angola and so onā¦
Iām not expecting everyone to know every expression under the sun, but those are CLEARLY Brazilian-Portuguese based so I thought it best to clear it up because people just say Portuguese most times and I feel that creates some confusion.
Sorry for the long reply, I happen to enjoy this subject quite a bit.
The āhierarchyā breaks once you try to analyse it with no regards to governments, focusing solely on linguistic features (phonetic, phonology, syntax, and the expressions). Because of things like this:
- Manezinho (from FlorianĆ³polis) and Azorean dialects are clearly a beast apart. They can understand each other, nobody else can understand them. If thereās one major division in Portuguese, it got to be Insular with those two and Continental with the others.
- Alentejo usage of -ndo gerunds, a gente, and a partially syllable-timed prosody. Those things are typically associated with BP, not EP.
- Mineiro (BP) often reducing vowels even more aggressively than Estremenho (EP), even if theoretically BP is known for syllable-timed prosody.
- More conservative speakers in ParanĆ” and Santa Catarina not raising the final unstressed vowels (you know, that ādor de denteā [dįŗ½te] meme for Curitiba? Thatās it), while almost everyone else would raise it to either [ÉØ] or [i]. Itās a phonemic deal because the raising merges /e o/ and /i u/ in this position. For reference this conservation of the unraised vowels is usually associated with Galician, not even Portuguese. And itās actually a phonemic deal, since the raising triggers a merge for non-conservative speakers in Brazil.
- The dialects in the northern ~half of Brazil (N, NE, chunks of SE) palatalising [s~z] into [Ź~Ź], a trait shared with dialects spoken in Portugal, but not with the southern ~half.
- In the same rough area as above you got a coda /ɾ/ā/r/ shift. Mattoso CĆ¢mara tries to deal with it in a cheesy way, but itās also phonemic in nature, unlike using [ɹ] for /ɾ/.
- Lack of regressive T-palatalisation (/ti/ as [tŹi]) in some chunks of the Brazilian Northeast, in CuiabĆ” and in some chunks of Santa Catarina. Often with some caveat, like Cuiabano rendering /Ź/ as [tŹ] instead, some Nordestinos doing progressive palatalisation (e.g. āoitoā as [ojtŹu]) and some Catarinas using [ts] instead (e.g. ātiaā as [tsiÉ]), thatās clearly a parallel development.
- Trasmontano still keeping the old /Ź/ vs. /tŹ/ distinction; e.g. āxĆcaraā with /Ź/, but āchiarā with /tŹ/.
- A few heavily conservative expressions used in Caipira Portuguese, such as āindaā and ādespoisā. Caipira also merges the original coda /l/ with /ɾ/ instead of /w/ (e.g. āmalā as homophone of āmarā, not of āmauā)
- The SOVāSVO shift for clitic pronouns (te falar ā falar-te) being likely more recent in Portugal than the colonisation of Brazil; for example, check news for the Lisbon earthquake and youāll see SOV being used all the time.
Iām not informed enough on the dialects spoken in Africa to affirm anything about them, but I wouldnāt be surprised if that also applied there - for example, Portuguese as spoken in Luanda being actually closer to the one in Lisbon than the one in the Angolan countryside.
And it actually makes sense, when you think about the initial colonisation of Brazil - you had four initial settlements, most people were likely from southern Portugal, and each settlement would undergo independent dialect levelling.
Any hierarchy that we put here would eventually break, by the way. You get a bunch of wave innovations but their pattern usually ties large centres together, regardless of country, with rural varieties either adopting those features later or developing alternative ones. But if we must see it on a hierarchical way, the split wouldnāt follow country borders, it would be more like:
- Galician-Portuguese ā Galician + Portuguese
- Portuguese ā Coimbra-Lisbon + āa genteā dialects (southern Portugal and Brazil)
- āa genteā dialects ā coda-/r/ dialects (northern half of Brazil) vs. coda-/ɾ/ (southern half of Brazil + Alentejo and the Algarve)
Note how the division actually lumps Alentejano and Algarviano alongside what youād call BP, not EP. And note how it still breaks, for example the /Ź/ coda in the northern half of Brazil was likely interference from Estremenho, even if both dialects would be relatively far from each other in the hierarchy.
That was a lot to take in indeed. I canāt speak for other dialects, but I can understand Azorean accent absolutely fine, same with Madeira. There are some idiomatic expressions here and there that I would maybe not understand but I would still clearly call it European Portuguese.
The same goes for Alentejo. They do use -ndo ending sometimes but I would still clearly call it mostly European Portuguese.
I donāt think this subject needs to be as complicated as you make it. Yes, if we deep dive we can look at things that way but I donāt really think that kind of discussion applies here, nor am I knowledgeable enough to engage with you on that hahah
I do love how passionate you are about it though!
At the end of the day what I mean is simply that any somewhat scientific āsplitā will not match the countries, making the labels near useless for a āhierarchyā (tree-like model) of sorts.
One important detail to consider is expectations - Iāve noticed that plenty speakers in Brazil tend to associate EP with specifically Estremenho, and in Portugal it seems to be that BP is mostly associated with Paulistano. But since those two diverge quite a bit from each other, this difference ends [incorrectly] extrapolated to some expectation of otherness and uniformity in āPortuguese as spoken thereā.
Tendo dito isto, jĆ” que disse entender a variedade dos AƧores: como classificaria a variedade deste vĆdeo - pt_PT ou pt_BR?
I do love how passionate you are about it though!
Thanks, and sorry - durante meus tempos de uni trabalhei com variedades locais (embora o foco fosse outro), entĆ£o acabo falando um pouco demais do assunto, quando vem Ć tona.
Scientifically itās hard to pinpoint exactly what makes EP or BP or others. Although maybe it could be done?
However, itās easy to tell BP a part from others. If you mainly use āvocĆŖā itās BP. If you donāt use it, then youād have to check other things I guess. Since, for instance, Portuguese from most African/Asian countries use ātuā.
Em relaĆ§Ć£o ao vĆdeo, facilmente classificaria o vĆdeo como PT-BR. Apesar de nĆ£o entender tudo, nĆ£o sĆ³ pelas expressƵes mas pela rapidez como Ć© falado, consigo claramente perceber algumas expressƵes que dĆ£o caracterĆsticas de PortuguĆŖs do Brasil. Exemplos, a expressĆ£o āAĆ eu faleiā. O uso de āo caraā, āpoxaā e outros. NĆ£o saberia dizer de que regiĆ£o do Brasil seria o sotaque/expressƵes, mas conseguia facilmente dizer que era do Brasil.
Edit: afinal atƩ percebo melhor do que pensava. Tinha a velocidade do YouTube a 1.25x Voltando para 1x, ficou mais fƔcil de perceber.
Alternative for āvai ver se estou na esquinaā is āvai catar coquinhoā (go gather little coconuts), I guess because itās a silly, futile task?
Havenāt seen some of these before. Ones I particularly like are:
- Tirar o cavalo da chuva: take your horse away from the rain = give up on something
- Lavar as mĆ£os: wash (the) hands = do not involve yourself in something
Wash your hands of [something] is also in American English, although I think more typically used when you were already involved in something then removed yourself from the situation
Another Bible reference; this one refers to Roman governor Pontius Pilate washing his hands to indicate being done with the issue of Jesusās execution.
Oh right, I hadnāt thought about it!
Only a few of these - ācomer o pĆ£o que o diabo amassouā, āvai ver se estou na esquinaā - are used in Portugal, so theyāre mostly used in Brasil.
The language hasnāt drifted all that much in between both countries during the last couple of hundred years but expressions seem to tend to be the first to drift away.
It also seems to me that expressions drift away faster than other aspects of the language. Perhaps due to their casual nature, or due to context. And theyāre often extremely local, too - for example, Iāve heard nordestinos using āsacrifĆcio de mundoā (lit. world sacrifice) to refer to difficult things, while folks here in ParanĆ” practically never do it. While saying that something is āuma vaca no milharalā (a cow in the corn farm - wrecking everything with no regards or reason) usually outs the person as from a rural background.
For speakers from Portugal thereās an additional weird expression: pila is used here in ParanĆ” as a completely innocent word for money, e.g. ādois pilaā two bucks. (In PT I believe that itās used as a slang for dick.)
You are correct on the pila thing, though itās old fashioned and kinda childrenās language.
Funilly enough and if I remember it correctly, a pila is a kind of throwable spear from the Roman times.
Funilly enough and if I remember it correctly, a pila is a kind of throwable spear from the Roman times.
You might be into something here. The spear is pilum, and Portuguese reborrowed it as pilo. However Portuguese used to repurpose the gender change for specific types of something, specially for Latin neuter words: see ovo/ova, casco/casca, jarro/jarra, barco/barca. Itās possible that the slang appeared this way, with people referring to their dicks as a type of spear. (Itās kind of childish but fairly common; c.f. caralho from caraculum āsmall mastā)
Thereās also another Latin pila meaning mortar, but it got inherited by Portuguese as pia āsinkā.
(IIRC pila-as-money is from a politician, Raul Pilla.)
I always said it as while youāre bringing the wheat I already ate the bread. But in my family we exaggerated it for effect: while youāre buying the wheat seed, I already shat the bread š
while youāre buying the wheat seed, I already shat the bread
Like, āenquanto vocĆŖ tĆ” comprando o trigo, jĆ” caguei o pĆ£oā? Thatās hilarious!
Isso, e era competiĆ§Ć£o entre meus irmĆ£os pra exagerar ao mĆ”ximo : tipo, enquanto vocĆŖ estava a caminho da loja pra comprar o trigo, eu jĆ” comi o pĆ£o, caguei, fiz composto com a merda e plantei mais trigo, etc, etc
Czech has a lot of them!
DÄlĆ” z komĆ”ra velblouda.
Heās making a camel out of a mosquito.
= Heās making it seem like a bigger problem than it is.Nemaluj Äerta na zeÄ.
Donāt draw an imp on the wall.
= Donāt be pessimistic. Donāt assume the most catastrophic scenario.Jsem tam peÄenĆ½ vaÅenĆ½.
Iām there baked cooked.
= I go there a lot.Dala mi koŔem.
She hit me with a basket.
= She dumped me, or rejected my (mostly romantic) offer or advances.DÄlĆ” jako by se nechumelilo.
Heās pretending like itās not heavily snowing.
= Heās pretending like something doesnāt concern him. Heās nonchalant about a serious situation.KĆ”pni božskou!
Drip the divine! (Object implied. Probably āthe divine truthā)
= Tell the truth. Spill it.LĆ”me to pÅes koleno.
Heās breaking it over his knee.
= Heās forcing it.NatĆ”hnout baÄkory / brka, zaklepat baÄkorama
To stretch (oneās) slippers / quills, to tap with (oneās) slippers
= To die. To kick the bucket.Padli jsme si do oka.
We fell into each otherās eye.
= We hit it off.RozumĆ tomu jako koza petrželi.
He understands it like a goat understands parsley.
= He doesnāt understand it.PÅiÅ”el jsem s kÅĆžkem po funuse.
I came with a little cross after the funeral.
= I came too late.HĆ”zĆm perly svinĆm.
Iām throwing pearls to swines.
= Iām doing good work or acts of kindness that go underappreciated.And I could go on :)
This is fascinating!
Iām also curious what causes idioms to be shared across languages, like āpearls before swineā (presumably this is shared because of the biblical verse, Matt 7:6)
I am absolutely going to use āheās pretending like itās not heavily snowingā from now on. Thank you for sharing all of these!
Iām glad so many people enjoyed my comment! Czech is a colorful language š
Like pearls to swine is a very seldom used idiom in English too, used very rarely and often in archaic/medievel/fantasy settings. Very interesting 2 languages have a shared idiom so neatly translated.
Itās from the Bible.
āGive not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.ā ā Matthew 7:6
āDrip the divineā
I love that Czech has a phrase for āspill the teaā but way cooler
Some of these are very interesting to me because very similar ones exist in German! Especially āeinen Korb gebenā (to give a basket) has me intrigued. Does this phrase come from a social norm to give a basket of something to someone you reject?
Thanks for sharing!
Itās very interesting indeed, I tried to research the origin of the idiom but was unsuccessful š¤
I could hear someone with a very (US) Georgian accent saying āHe understands that like a goat understands parsleyā.
āI donāt know where it comes from, but itās tasty.ā ā the goat
In Dutch we have one similar to dÄlĆ” z komĆ”ra velblouda, we say āvan een mug een olifant makenā (making a mosquito out for an elephant), it means the same!
Also one similar to pÅiÅ”el jsem s kÅĆžkem po funuse; āmosterd na de maaltijdā (mustard after the meal) means something mentioned or brought too late, when it was no longer necessary.
I wonder how many languages have sayings like this.
In English, we have āmaking a mountain out of a molehillā.
Ah, Iāve never even heard of that one in English!
Thatās interesting!
We fell into each otherās eye, sounds so sweet, romantic even. I might use that haha
In Australia people who mean business say āIām not here to fuck spiders.ā I think thatās just wonderful.
In America we express suffering beyond words by saying weāre āliving the dreamā. And the Brits think we have an irony deficiency.
In France weāre not here to fuck flies
We donāt mind othersā onions
When someone is about to get late somewhere, we say Ā«Ā Tu vas te faire appeler ArthurĀ Ā» (literally Ā«Ā Youāre gonna be called ArthurĀ Ā»)
This expression came during the German occupation, when soldiers would shout Ā«Ā Acht UhrĀ Ā» (Ā«Ā eight hourĀ Ā») to people during curfew. It sounds like Ā«Ā ArthurĀ Ā» in French.
Last one. Ā«Ā Faire le JacquesĀ Ā» (Ā«Ā acting like JackĀ Ā») means Ā«Ā playing dumbĀ Ā»
TIL about the origin of Ā« Tu vas te faire appeler Arthur Ā»
That last one reminds me of something I heard on the Mighty Boosh. Vince called someone a āJack of Clubsā for hitting him
Ok next alt account I make is going to be named fly fucker
You mean sarcasm
-a Brit
Yeah, right. They meant sarcasm.
Exactly, thanks
Idk the spiders looking are looking mighty fine
Shut up :)
Aussie subtleties of the c-word.
-
āSilly Cuntā = funny person (endearing)
-
āStupid Cuntā = complete idiot (serious)
-
āDumb Cuntā = a good mate acting stupid (jovial)
-
āThis Cuntā = referring to a good mate whoās done/said something uniquely odd (jovial)
-
āActing like a Cuntā = acting terribly (serious)
-
āDonāt be a Cuntā = stop acting terribly (serious)
-
āBunch of Cuntsā = all your good mates (endearing)
-
āGood Cuntā = the best compliment you can receive (endearing)
-
āDog Cuntā = the worst insult you can receive (get ready to fight)
-
āShit Cuntā = insult (serious)
-
āBit of a Cuntā = insult (jovial)
You can put mad Infront of all the cunts that donāt have adjectives already to make them even more extreme.
āThis mad cuntā for when your mateās done something really out there while āmad dog cuntā is real fucking bad for example
-
Here are some useful Australian phrases:
- Flat out like a lizard drinking (working hard)
- weāre not here to fuck spiders (youāre wasting time, get on with the work)
- 40Ā¢ short of a shout (not quite right in the head)
- Howād you be? (Are you well?)
- Living the dream (I am well, thank you)
- See you when Iām looking at you (goodbye)
I hate that your spiders are big enough to fuck
At least theyāre not big enough to fuck you.
Lol thatās a good perspective!
āLiving the dreamā is also in the US but itās usually more sarcastic like āJust another shitty day at this job, just living the dream!ā
Yes, to me , also in the US, āliving the dreamā is exclusively very sarcastic and means something like āis this really all there is to life.ā People also use āanother day in paradise.ā Means the same thing.
I want to tell everyone that we arenāt here to fuck spiders. This is my new anthem.
The more work appropriate version of this is āim not here to put boots on caterpillarsā
Speaking of which, it reminds me of the curse āMay your wife give birth to a centipede so that you have to spend the rest of your life working to buy shoes for itā.
- Face like a dropped pie/chewed mintie/hat full of arseholes (un-attractive)
- Going off like prawns in the sun/frog in a sock (really good time or a raving loony)
- mad as a cut snake (Karen)
- I could eat the arse out of a dead rhino/dingo (really hungry)
One of my favorite examples in (American) English has to be āThereās more than one way to skin a catā; meaning there are multiple viable strategies for the task or problem at hand.
I never really appreciated how morbid it is until I saw the shocked face of a fluent but non-native english speaking colleague after using it in a meeting.
I almost got punched in a bar once for saying that a non-native English speaker was grinning like an idiot. Didnāt occur to me he wouldnāt understand the subtext on that one.
(For yāall ESL folks, itās meant to be an endearing phrase indicating a joy so strong that you canāt stop yourself from smiling.)
Wait, just so I get this right, āthereās more than one way to skin a carā is also used to express joy? What?
No theyāre talking about the idiom āgrinning like an idiotā almost getting them punched despite being harmless to anyone with cultural context
Oh man i donāt know how I didnāt get that. Thanks.
āKonstit on monet, sano mummo kun kissalla pƶytƤƤ pyyhki.ā
Itās basically the same idea, and it even involves a cat. However, in this case, a grandmother is wiping the table with a cat, and says ākonstit on monetā. Crudely translated as āways (of getting stuff done) are numerous.ā
Realistically though, Iām pretty sure the cat would not appreciate this method. Come to think of it, you probably wouldnāt want to do this with any animal, least of all with one that is famous for having āmurder mittensā.
When I was sticking my oar in too much on something he was doing, my Dad used to say āwhoās skinning this cat, you or me?ā
Similar to the German āAll paths lead to Romeā.
At least in Dutch we call it āmeerdere wegen leiden naar Romeā (multiple roads lead to Rome) to do away with the morbidityā¦
āé£č„æåé¢Øā (Cantonese, āeat north-west windā) or āåč„æåé¢Øā (Mandarin, ādrink north-west windā). It originally means having no food or drink, in other words, starving.
The meaning of this phrase is further extended to ārunning out of businessā.
This is also partially where my username came from.
Danish is full of idioms. Some people can have entire conversations using only idioms.
Some of the peculiar ones with animals:
āThereās no cow on the iceā = itās not urgent.
"The goat has been shaved " = the job is complete.
"A dog in a game of bowling " = someone that doesnāt fit in.
āThe dog is buried thereā = the problem is found there.
Wow, Danes donāt like dogs huh?
I would think they would think dogs wereā¦great
Iāll see myself out
Ruh roh
āThe dog is buried thereā = the problem is found there.
Weāve got the same in Germany. Probably carried over because weāre neighbours.
First thing that came to my mind was āDa wird doch der Hund in der Pfanne verrĆ¼ckt!ā - āThat makes the dog in the pan go mad!ā You basically say it when youāre angry about something. Usually as part of a string of expletives as you charge up a long furious rant.
And even better: we only use the ice-cow as a thing of the past. āKuh vom Eisā (cow off the ice) in the sense of an urgent situation has been resolved.
Ice dwelling bovines seem to have been a real problem.
This is a broad format, but I like the American English formula of āWell, blank my blank and call me a blank!ā to express āoh wow, I did not expect that!ā
Typically in my experience, it is pretty vulgar. Eg: āwell, slap my ass and call me a bitch!ā
Well suck my twat and call me cumquat
adopted
Well, smoke my toads and call me a squid-squab!
deleted by creator
(American) English ones that come to mind:
- itās raining cats and dogs (itās pouring rain)
- I really shit the bed on this one (I fucked up really bad -not sure how widespread this is)
- a turd in the punch bowl (someone is singlehandedly ruining something, usually an event)
- donāt blow smoke up my ass (be honest with me)
- a walk in the park (pleasant/easy task)
donāt blow smoke up my ass (be honest with me)
alternative form: donāt piss on my leg and tell me itās raining
āSomeone screwed the poochā - Someone made a big mistake, same as the āshit the bedā idiom.
Both are also common in Canada. Edit, actually every one of the parentās idioms are common in Canada to varying degrees.
All of those are widespread in the northeast US if not across the entire US.
Iāve never heard number 3. Never lived in the northeast US though.
āRaiining cats and dogsā is not of American origin. The precise origin is unknown, but the first recorded uses are British, dating from the early to mid 17th century (Earliest uses are raining ādogs and catsā and ādogs and polecatsā.) although itās possible the phrase is significantly older than this.
The phrase is well known and widely used in the UK, and I doubt anyone here would consider it an American phrase.
Language is alive and I canāt see anyone requesting origins specifically. Phrases like this can be part of 2 cultures at once. You even share the same base language, and donāt even have hard proof one way or the other but still took the time to say ānayā. Pretty boringā¦
Language is alive
Where did I say it wasnāt? But language being alive doesnāt change history ā the phrase was used by British writers before the USA even existed.
and I canāt see anyone requesting origins specifically.
So? I offered the origin as it was presented alongside a number of phrases that are of American origin, and that one stands out as not (also as being suspected far older in origin than the others). Iāve simply added some additional information to the discussion. If you find it āboringā, you are free to ignore it.
I didnāt request your reply, yet you still wrote it.
Phrases like this can be part of 2 cultures at once.
Where did I say it couldnāt? I merely stated that the phrase was not of American origin. I didnāt say it wasnāt used in the US, or that the UK somehow has some special exclusive licence to it.
and donāt even have hard proof one way or the other
I didnāt post sources because I was short on time, but here, have someā¦ (as I apparently now have time to wasteā¦)
- āDogs and Cats rainād in showreā, from the poem Upon a Cloke in Olor Iscanus (1651) by Henry Vaughan
- āā¦and it shall raineā¦ Dogs and Polecatsā, from The City Wit, or, The Woman Wears the Breeches (1653) by Richard Brome
- āit should rain Dogs and Catsā, from Don Juan Lamberto: or, a Comical History of the Late Times (1661) by Thomas Flatman
- āMade it rain down dogs and catsā, from Cataplus, or Ćneas, ā¦ (1672) by Maurice Atkins
- āWhen it rains Dogs and Cats in Hellā from Maronides; or, Virgil Travesty, ā¦ (1678) by John Phillips
- āraining cats and dogsā, from A Description of a City Shower (1710) by Jonathan Swift
- ārain cats and dogsā, from Complete Collection of Genteel and Ingenious Conversation (1738) also by Jonathan Swift
You will note that these are all British works by British authors. I can provide even more if you need them.
While the ultimate origin is unknown (there are many theories), any claim to it being American in origin is surely nonsense. There is no evidence for this at all. If you have some, please provide it.
What proof have you provided? Indeed, what has your comment added at all to the discussion? You could have looked up those sources and extensive etymological research on Google with less effort than you took to write your comment.
Pretty boringā¦
And what about your own comment? It adds absolutely zero additional information to the conversation, is rude, and you clearly misconstrued and misinterpreted my comment (apparently with the most negative interpretation possible), without even bothering to research anything for yourself.
Personally, I think some may find it interesting that a phrase they might have thought was of modern American origin is actually from another country and of far more ancient origins they expect. To me, that is interesting. If it isnāt to you, why do you bother to read and comment?
In the future, I suggest you simply ignore comments you find boring and move on instead of posting insulting low-effort replies.
āRaiining cats and dogsā is not of American origin.
Nobody said it was of American origin. Youāre putting words in the parent commenterās mouth and then choosing to argue against them. Thatās why people take issue with your comment. If you want to contribute to the conversation without coming off as argumentative then frame your point as adding to the conversation not as an argument against something that wasnāt said.
Nobody said it was of American origin
I know. Go back and read what I wrote. The only argument here was started by you. The only person putting words in othersā mouths is you.
The phrase is well known and widely used in the UK, and I doubt anyone here would consider it an American phrase.
Yes, and itās used in many other places in the world that isnāt America either. That doesnāt change the fact that it is widely used in America. You may not have intended for your comment to come off as argumentative. But it did. Youāre the one that joined the conversation by explaining that itās not an American saying. It is a common saying in American English which is all the parent comment asserted.
And I didnāt assert otherwise. Perhaps improve your own reading comprehension before wading into a discussion of the English language.
Anybody here ever think about the etymology of the word āokā?
Supposedly it started as an abbreviation of āoll korrectā and became popular in the 1840ās during a fad of abbreviating words a lot like we have ālolā or āomgā today. Then the abbreviation took on its own meaning and became one of the most widely used words to be borrowed by other languages, with a near universal meaning.
Now it even has its own word based on the pronunciation of the abbreviation, āokayā.
The equivalent of that would be if the word ālolā became synonymous with laughter over the next 150 years to the point where the words ālaugh out loudā look alien and outdated.
Iāve heard that ok was from ā0 killsā, which was a good thing.
I donāt know why youāre getting down voted. Iām pretty sure I read an article that had both etymologies, with the consensus that no one really knows the truth.
I guess people donāt use the up/down votes the same way I do, but anyways itās not like it matters š
Germany, Hesse. We have some ā¦ interesting regional idioms Examples:
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Furz mit KrĆ¼cken (a fart with crutches) - a really stupid idea thatās bound to fail
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Eine Gardinenpredigt halten (to hold a curtain preach) - to rant / tell someone off in a loud and angry way
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Das macht den Bock auch nicht fett (that doesnāt fatten up the billy goat either) - somehing doesnāt matter anymore
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Das Kind ist in den Brunnen gefallen (the child fell into the well) - something bad has already happened, intervening isnāt possible anymore, the only option is to deal with the consequences.
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Besser als in die hohle Hand geschissen (better than shitting into your hollow hand) - better than nothing
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Auf dem Zahnfleisch kriechen (to crawl on your gums) - to be totally exhausted
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Klappe zu, Affe tot (hatch closed, monkey dead) - this is the end of the discussion
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Passt wie die Faust aufs Auge (like a fist fits the eye) - a perfect match. Another variant is āPasst wie Arsch auf Eimerā (fits like a butt on a bucket)
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Eine Laus Ć¼ber die Leber gelaufen (A louse walked across your liver) - to be annoyed and failing to hide it
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Einen Besen fressen (to eat a broom) - exclamation of disbelief (āIf that is really true, Iām going to eat a broomā)
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Der hat Haare auf den ZƤhnen (he has hair on his teeth) - he is stubborn and loud about it
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Das Leben ist wieās ist, wer nen scheppen Arsch hat, hat nen scheppen Schiss. (Life is life, a person with a sideways arse poops sideways turds) - stop complaining about stuff you canāt change. āScheppā is āschiefā, but said with a dialect.
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Wie der Ochās wenns blitzt (like an ox when lightning strikes) - to stare dumbfounded into space, usually because you donāt understand something / are surprised
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Einbildung ist auch eine Bildung (delusion is also a form of education) - when someone is dumb but so full of themselves that they donāt realize HOW dumb they are. āEinbildungā and āeine Bildungā sound very similar.
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Wer im Glashaus sitzt, soll nicht mit Steinen werfen (if you sit in a glass house, donāt throw stones) - donāt gossip about others when youāre also guilty of the thing you want to gossip about
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Am Arsch die Waldfee (by the butt of the forest fairy) - āThis is ridiculous and I refuse to believe itā Another variant is āAm Arsch die RƤuberā (by the butts of the robbers)
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Himmel, Arsch und Zwirn! (heaven, ass and twine!) - for fuckās sake!
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Herr, schmeiss Hirn vom Himmel! (Lord, throw a brain down from the Heavens!) - when youāre frustrated with someone really stupid. Another variant is āHerr, schmeiss Hirn vom Himmel - oder Steine, Hauptsache du triffst!ā (Lord, throw a brain down from the Heavens - or rocks, as long as you hit your mark!)
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Nicht mein Affe, nicht mein Zirkus (not my monkey, not my circus) - This is not my responsibility, go ask someone else
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Wie ein Affe auf einem Schleifstein (like a monkey sitting on a grindstone) - youāre sitting weird
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Das gleiche in GrĆ¼n (the same, but green) - two things are essentially the same
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Zum MƤusemelken (like milking mice) - something is complicated and frustrating
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Ich hab schon Pferde vor der Apotheke kotzen sehen (Iāve seen horses barf in front of a pharmacy) - Iāve seen weirder things in my life
Iām from Hamburg and I know the majority of these as well, but some are a bit different. Hereās some variations on yours:
- Das macht den Kohl auch nicht fett (that doesnāt fatten up the cabbage)
- Herr, lass Hirn vom Himmel regnen! (lord, let it rain brains!)
- Wie ein Schluck Wasser in der Kurve (like a sip of water turning a corner) - sitting very lazily/not upright
Are you sure the first one is about cabbage and not the politician?
No I am not sure actually, it might very well be! Both would make sense conceptually but I never actually looked into which one it is
Also german. Somewhat sure itās about good old Helmut.
Is ādas ist mir wurstā a thing? Thatās one I learned from my MIL (from Bavaria).
I also have a special love for the word āMietschuldenfreiheitsbescheinigungā. And yes I had to Google the spelling lol.
We say ādas ist mir Wurstā in Hamburg too, so it must be a pretty universal saying.
Is Mietschuldenfreiheitsbescheinigung used in a saying? The only meaning I can think of is the literal one (attestation of no rental debt)
You are correct, itās the attestation, not an actual saying. I just think itās wild how many words were shoved together to make this abomination of a word.
Itās called a composite word. English has them too, like schoolbus, but German just went crazy with them. Feels like every other word is a composite
Flugzeug = flying stuff = plane
GlĆ¼hbirne = glowing pear = light bulb
But some examples just take it on a whole other level. Like āRindfleischĀetikettierungsĀĆ¼berwachungsĀaufgabenĀĆ¼bertragungsĀgesetzā, meaning āBeef labeling supervision duties delegation lawā.
TBF English has words like ābackpackā, which then get turned into a verb like āto go backpackingā.
But in some Germanic language like German (Dutch too), you should write all words that describe one noun together as one, which leads to words like huttentuttententoonstelling.
Yup that is me sausage is a german thing.
Itās a thing in Hesse, too ;) you can also say āIst mir Schnuppeā or āIst mir schnurzā, which essentially mean the same thing (āI donāt careā) but the literal translation is different. āSchnuppeā is the burnt end if a candle wick, but I have seriously no idea what āschnurzā is supposed to be, lol.
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Iāve been learning Scots gaidhlig which has some really great ones:
As happy as a mouse in a loaf (really happy)
As happy as a shoe (not happy at all)
As fat as a seal (very fat)
As full as an egg (couldnāt be fuller)
As wet as a cormorant (soaked)
As bald as a shinty ball (hairless)
There are many others.
Ireland and particularly the Irish language (Gaeilge) has a lot of them.
My favourite one in Irish is
āTĆ” mĆ© ar mhuin na muiceā which literally means āIm on the pigs backā This means that you are well or that you are having a good day etc. Sometimes people will jokingly say this in English too, usually to friends family etc
āHow are you today?ā āIām on the pigs backā
Thereās loads of other ones too that people say, many of which probably have roots in the Irish language but we donāt know since the Brits made it illegal to speak Irish during their rule of Ireland.
āYouāre gas!ā They are very funny. Sometimes used in addition to craic (craic, pronounced Crack, is an Irish word for good natured shenanigans or fun) You could say āThey are gas craic all togetherā Meaning this person or people is exceptionally funny or enjoyable to be around.
Some others
āI will in me holeā I will not do that
āI will, yeah!ā I will not do that
āItās mighty tackā Of good quality
āAh sure, you know yourself nowā Kind of like saying āthats how it is I guessā
āIf there was work in the bed, heād sleep on the floorā This person is very lazy
āSheād pull up floorboards looking for pipeā This woman is promiscuous/ horny
āTis steep enoughā Said when commenting about the price of something being high
āThereās an aul nip in the breezeā Said if it is somewhat cold outside
āTis fierce closeā Itās warm/ humid outside
āItās Balticā The weather is very cold
āItās a massive dayā Itās sunny and pleasant outside
āHeās a bit of a black guardā (black guard, pronounced āblaggardā) This person is silly, funny or may not be trust worthy
āI battered himā I physically beat him up
āHeās an awful messerā This person is playful, foolish or silly
āIām wreckedā Iām tired
āIām tipping awayā Usually said in response to āhow are you?ā It means Iām doing okay, taking it easy
āHowās she cutting?ā How is it going/ how has your day been
āNow weāre sucking diesel!ā Now we are doing well! Can sometimes be used as an exclamation when something goes well. If you fixed a problem or are making good progress.
āIād do be at that the whole timeā I do something regularly or habitually. Sometimes shortened into fewer sounds/syllables, sounding something āIād-dābe at dat the whole timeā though that would usually be an older person with a very strong accent. Most Irish people these days would have a comparitively mild accent.
āTis pure shiteā Itās very bad/ of poor quality
āA sniper wouldnāt take her outā This person is unattractive
āHeād get up on a gust of windā This person is very horny/ promiscuous
āIām as sick as a small hospitalā I am very unwell
āIām as sick as a plane to Lourdesā Also means I am unwell. Older people like to travel to places of religious significance hoping for a miracle to heal them if they are sick or unwell.
āIām as shook as a hand at massā I am very stressed/ tired/ worn out. Comes from āoffering a sign of peaceā in Catholic mass, where you shake the hands of everyone sitting next to you, in front and behind you.
Thereās a ton of others. They can also be quite regional. Iām from Cork in the south of the country, so these ones tend to be more popular here. There are other ones more commonly used elsewhere in Ireland.
In the Sesotho language of Lesotho, if you say to someone, āIām not your motherā, itās a terrible insult.
Another insult of equal vehemence is, āyou are like a cat that jumps across a ravine and scribbles up the other sideā.
People in the village I lived in told me that either of these could result in someone being killed.
Please tell us what these insults mean, and why they are so dire!
Unfortunately, I have no idea what the origin of these phrases is, or why people there take offense at them.
My wild guess is that āIām not your motherā could be an explicit denial of sympathy, carrying the implication of āyouāre being a whiny bitchā.
Vader: No, Iām not your mother, Iām your father.
U.S. here. I find this both interesting and disturbing. I can sort of get the meaning. But scary! I hope you are okay.