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Reviews (as an addition to human reviews) is actually one thing that AI does pretty well. Itās not good for large architectural issues but it can point out nuanced issues in single files that often wouldnāt be caught otherwise
I keep saying this but painting any use of AI at all as the same as vibe coding just harms the real complaints against it, ESPECIALLY in this case where itās subtracting from another real issue (the age gating)
I agree AI in the hands of someone competent is just a speedup. Stupid stuff like making serializer for endpoints is tedious work most of the time
Exactly, yeah. I actually really like AI for line completion and the occasional use of it for debugging. It really just enhances existing IDE features.
The problems with it come with large unreviewed chunks of code generated by LLMs being thrown carelessly into a codebase. A developer asking for an AI code review or a developer letting AI complete a line they were likely writing anyway to save time is so far removed from the problem that it just screams mindless anti-hype or overly-confident inexperience by juniors
Iām personally pretty skeptical of the value of AI code reviews - thereās tooling for it where I work, where they will auto-submit a review on any PR I open. Iāve never actually received a comment of any value from it, while my peers can find things that need resolving without any issue.
A poor supplement, and absolutely not a substitute.
And this is coming from someone not entirely opposed to all kinds of AI tooling
Itās not good for large architectural issues but it can point out nuanced issues in single files that often wouldnāt be caught otherwise
Yeah I agree. Itās sometimes good at code smells, though sometimes it can be straight-up wrong in ways that are actually surprising, so it always requires a human in the loop. Itās not good at larger-scale architectural decisions, and Iād also add that itās usually not capable of understanding the intent behind business logic.
I always have ai review something before I give it my attention. Itās nice to have that quick summary to reorient myself when Iām multitasking and just a nice filter to have in general. It usually brings to attention anything out of the ordinary right away.
You donāt seem to understand. This is Lemmy, and all AI is āslopā. No exceptions.
Maybe the systemd haters were right all along?
Maybe the systemd haters were the friends we made along the way?
OpenRC was always better regardless of the hate
Nope.
I thought vibe coding was when you donāt know what the code does yourself, you just make AI do it and review it without reviewing or understanding it yourself.
That was the origin of the term. Now itās when anyone uses those same tools and techniques regardless of their skill level.
I think the term has a lost a lot in the process then
Thereās no nuance in the anti-ai discussions. Even breathing next to an LLM makes it slop.
If you wish to increase your sadness and dread a little more, have a look at this list
vlc and mpv? python?? the mesa drivers??? LINUX???
oh weāre so fucked
The list is genuinely stupid and lacks any nuance. See my other comments in this thread but this is sort of thing is where people who are anti-AI are shooting themselves in the foot and making the general public write off any genuine criticism as ridiculous.
Most of those projects allow AI to be used in the dev process and thatās it. That list includes projects that just document that things like AI line completion and similar can be used but code is still reviewed by at least one skilled human maintainer
The list combines those projects in with projects that are entirely AI written (vibe coded in the actual original sense) which just muddies the water on whatās actually problematic and not
Or people should take it as a slap of reality that AI has gotten good enough to code because actual developers are using it.
Give it another year and this wonāt even be a discussion anymore as every programmer will be using assisted coding in some manner.
just another year bro, trust me just another year and ai will do everything! yes i know i said this last year and the year before but this time itās for real bro!
unless the ai companies can magically solve the poor code quality, the unethical training data, the environmental impacts, the deskilling of developers, and the strong dependency on themselves for your coding, all this in a year, allow me to doubt you.
I mean no I donāt believe theyāll do everything but compared to last year AI coding has made leaps and its kind of dumb to imagine technology will not continue to do so.
1 year ago vibe coding was not good enough to make it into code bases.
unless the ai companies can magically solve the poor code quality, the unethical training data, the environmental impacts, the deskilling of developers, and the strong dependency on themselves for your coding, all this in a year, allow me to doubt you.
Im not some full on AI stan, so i share the same concerns you do on ethics and environmental impact. However I dont see how either of those matter in relation to code quality.
Code quality will is basically already good enough to be used mainstream, so I donāt know how you expect it to get worse. But sure feel free to revisit this in a year.
I mean no I donāt believe theyāll do everything but compared to last year AI coding has made leaps and its kind of dumb to imagine technology will not continue to do so.
People have been consistently saying this for over a year at this point and itās still the same garbage results as always. Just look at the recent Meta and Amazon issues with it producing nonsense and people just taking it at face value for some reason.
The only thing itās gotten better at is making people rely on it.
well, my point is also partly that all developers wonāt disregard all the concerns just because the code quality is good enough
and the ones that do, they and their projects should be shunned. hence the list.
The code quality is fine with the right prompts and guardrails, and companies donāt care about the other stuff.
This list and the reaction to the list is so funny to me.
Programmers are so fucked. Cant wait for the many, many smug idiots of the last 10-15 years struggle to find work.
And its not like many of them have the social skills to work the āunskilledā labor jobs so many of them deride.
Holy shit, my sides.
āHaha, people are going to struggle to eat and house themselves and probably die. Haha, my sides!ā
Psychopath.
Time to start learning how to āprompt engineerā lmao
Well, speaking of social skills, youāve entirely missed my point.
The terms at the top are great.
- slop
- Anything generated by AI, typically code, books, articles, or images.
- sloperator
- A person who uses AI prompts to generate anything, typically code or images.
- slopshop
- Company, Organization, or Group of sloperators working together to use AI to generate content.
Sloperator haha. Microsoft employee in other words.
- slop
Sadness and dread is a perfect description. As I started reading I was building a mental list of things to stop using - I didnāt get very far before I gave up. So many projects Iāve held up in high regard.
Sadness, dread and defeat.
Edit to add - I want to be clear that Iām not judging the developers of these projects. If theyāre being overwhelmed with AI generated PRs, theyāre being forced to use these tools in their āreal jobsā and it spills over, or they just feel that this is the way things are going or whatever reason - theyāve got to do what theyāve got to do to survive. My sadness, dread and defeat comes from the state of the world and this is just the symptom thatās currently front of mind.
There are many viable and better alternatives than whatās on that list. thereās really nothing there that should make you think āohā¦I donāt know what to use nowā most of the stuff listed is garbage anyways. Like take Zen Browser for example. you can essentially do that yourself on just about any fork of firefox by simply editing the userChrome.css. Librewolf is another example of ādoing it yourselfā on just about any fork or firefox or just firefox itself.
Really?
My list of ānot trivial to replaceā is:
- firefox - desktop and android
- ImageMagik - I donāt use it directly, but other things I use depend on it
- VLC - yeah, I know there are other options but VLC has so much else going for it, itās hard to change
- Jellyfin - whatās the alternative? Kodi? Oh waitā¦
- curl
- rsync
- .NET - I donāt use it directly, but things I use depend on it
- python
- vim - Iāve been using vi for 35 years, Iām not changing now. But Iām happy to use old versions.
- Joplin - argh, just finished migrating my documentation into here
- KeepassXC
- Mastodon
- Lemmy
- systemd
- Linux Kernel!!
systemd is kinda trivial to replace, just look at devuan
It might be trivial for you, but not for me. I like systemd - perhaps because I came to Linux from AIX? Anyway, because I like it, I use it on all 4 of my servers - I have custom systemd unit files for applications I run that donāt natively support it, Iāve removed cron and use systemd timers for all my scheduling and I use systemdās remote journal capability to centralise logs to my monitoring server.
if you are not used to it you will have to learn itā¦ that goes both waysā¦
and all the functionality you need were already in normal initfiles, cron and rsyslogd
my main issue with systemd always has been, that it centralises stuff that does not relate to each other into one single program instead of keeping it seperate and as simple as possible
Guess you missed the one that said the Linux Kernel. š¤£ š
~Also,
wgetovercurl? š¤¦āāļø~
VLC doesnāt surprise me, dude rants all the time about how great vibe coding is.
Librewolf doesnāt surprise me.
Kitty 100% does NOT surprise me. The dev is an absolute tool who thinks his shit donāt stink but the guy has no clue what heās doing at that end of the day. he rags on multiplexers or the simple act of copying via keyboard multiple lines in the terminal cause he DOESNāT know how to do it so therefore those things are āgarbageā. of course he uses copilot, when it comes to AI he doesnāt even know of a āgoodā one to use. Donāt use Kitty, itās slop from end to end. For example launch tmux in Kitty and then try to change your ākitten themeāā¦Iāll wait.
?
I think you might be confusing the columns there. Firefox is listed as project using Ai, Librewolf and Zen are listed as āalternativesā (a bit silly, since they are soft forks, but whatevs). Neither seem to be listed for LLM usage.
Librewolf is listed as an alternative.
Whenever I hear about kitty, itās always about a negative experience with the dev. I myself have had a negative experience with him. Dudeās gonna go down in history as a bad example of how OSS devs conduct themselves
Iām happy with the terminal, though. Itās fine for my simple needs
Oh noā¦ reading this, I think I just died a little insideā¦ couldnāt finish the listā¦
This list will be way too long in the next years. Coding with the help of an LLM is useful and allows you to go to the solution very fast. If you know how to code, vibe coding is great.
Those files are not proof of vibe coding. Agents, while still AI trash, are not necessary vibe coding.
ā A user dob field make much more sense here. User age will change constantly and need to be maintained.
āļø Inconsistent spacing
actually, if the legislation doesnāt specifically demand that they store userās actual date of birth, if I were to design this system, I would simply ask the user a yes/no question of whether theyāre at least 18 at the time of answering the question. If they answer yes, it wonāt expire because the time doesnāt go backwards. I could also store the date exactly 18 years before the answer is given as a pseudo-DoB, that could be used, later on, to, for example, prove that the user is at least 21 for whatever reason. Most importantly, this would ensure that the user doesnāt give any unnecessary identifying information to the system.
I think the best system is an operating system that stores the exact date, but exposes it via an API that only returns a boolean. You trust your own local machine, but donāt necessarily trust random apps or websites. And they donāt need to know anything more than whether you pass a particular age gate.
It would be hilarious if all thise drama, legislation, and lobbying just made a bill so poorly made weāre right back where we started.
Anthropic really deserves more kudos. They are the ones actually investing in AI alignment. They are the ones developing Constitutional AI. They publish their Constitution and system prompt. They wonāt agree to mass surveillance or auto killbots.
And Claude will advocate for privacy and human rights to its last token, bless its carefully curated data set.
Nm, the actual code is a BirthDate in iso 8601 YYYY-MM-DD format
People are throwing a stupid fit over the userdb having an age field in addition to the other info
Yes but Iāll try to expand on that for anyone not in the know.
In general thereās been a wealth of info about users but you didnāt necessarily need info in there. Like GECOS where you can store the full name, phone numbers, etc.
These are simply fields made available but not required. Systemd is making it available but your OS itself doesnāt need to use it at all.
Now I personally very much disagree with all this age verification BS but systemd isnāt really doing anything extreme here nor unprecedented.
Yeah itās insane. I wrote up a complaint in another thread but I think the OP realised how terrible it was because it was deleted by the time I hit submit. That particular post was utter trash, not even attempting to maintain a reasonable tone or look at the situation dispassionately. Its lede literally read:
Dylan, useful idiot with commit access, pushed age verification PRs to systemd, Ubuntu & Arch, got 2 Microslop employees to merge it, called it āhilariously pointlessā in the PR itself, then watched Lennart personally block the revert. Unpaid compliance simp.
And frankly, the author of that sort of hit piece should be ashamed of himself. Far, far more than Dylan should.
Itās such a dumb thing to whinge about. Age verification is not a bad thing! Whatās bad is age verification that is implemented in a way that either requires, or significantly increases the chances of peopleās privacy being violated. Requiring people to upload photo ID directly to sites, or to third-party ātrusted age verification partnersā. Or trusting bullshit AI face-detection age verification.
Age verification thatās implemented by asking parents toā¦yāknow, actually parent, and helping them to do that by giving them tools like OS-level parental controls, enforced through operating system and browser APIs that we mandate apps and websites use, is the way to go. The OS should expose to apps, and browsers expose to websites, only the simple answer to the question: āis the current user of a legal age to access this content?ā as a boolean value, based on information stored in the OS by parents setting it. No fancy technology. No privacy invasion. Just simply giving parents the tools to help them do their job.
There are more complicated technical solutions that could be used. Things involving repeated hashes or blind digital signatures. But these are only appropriate if we pre-suppose that the government needs to strictly enforce it by requiring IDs or other sensitive information be used to age verify. And these solutions help minimise the risk by eliminating the connection between the age verification and which sites are being accessed (so the verifier canāt see what sites the verifyee is viewing, and the sites canāt see who the person being verified was, only that they were verified). And you donāt need to go even that far. Because the best solution is right down on the userās device, with a simple setting that parents can set.
Ah, for fuckās sakeā¦ Anyone know how to switch to a different init system on openSUSE? /srs
Iām sure itās possible but do you really want to go through the effort? And afterwards for every single issue you get youāre on your own.
Too late anyway. Iāve started distrohopping again.
No, we can go lower stillā¦
Glad I renewed my FSF membership. Rocking Guix with the herd init system
š š š
What did you expect from the Microslop trojan horse that was brought in to destroy Linux from the inside.
The enshittifcation will continue until it served itās purpose.