logilogi-list Mailing List for LogiLogi - Software Libre for the Web (Page 45)

> Hi all,
> 
> This is the temporal file where I'm working at
> http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_1.html
> 
> Take a look at it and let me know how it behaves in different browsers.

Great! It works well in both Firefox and IE, and scaling is
wonderfull in both!

> The layout is made of a header, a body and a footer. The body has a
> table with 3cols. I'll try next to move from table to DIVs since I
> think it will work, but have to give some time to it and will do it
> tomorrow.

As said, I don't consider it paramount that we have a div-only layout.
It will be only in one or in a few files, so once CSS gets stable
enough that we can do what we want to do across browsers without
hacks, we can do it in less than an hour...

> I still will work on:
>  * Left and right menues
>  * Header requested/received urls
>  * LogisBox colors and elements (Wybo, let me know what will be in there)

A list of links, with logi's and their scores below each link.

>  * Font sizes in general. Now the sizes are the default ones.

Ok.

> I made some changes of layout to test how they worked, let me know
> what you think:
>  * changed the order of (nav_bar / url_bar / prefs_bar) TO (prefs_bar
> / url_bar / nav_bar) Also this test doesn't center them. The first
> problem I find is that the search box is lost up there and I don't
> like it. Obviously going back to the old layout is easy.

I had them in the previous order, because both the search-box and the
preferences-drop-down menu are something one will probably use quite
often, so they should be more near the center of the screen. Also note
that the preferences-drop-down-menu is meanth for switching prefs-
profiles quickly, not for going to different places for setting your
preferences.

Also the login fields likely will be added to the prefs_bar (and a
link to one's personal page & peergroup-page if logged in). So I think
the original order was a bit better.

A minor issue is that the nav_bar doesn't go all the way to the right
side of the screen.

And about yes or no centering them, I guess that's a matter of taste
and style, so we will try it now for a while your way.

>  * also, I'm changing the menues to lists, and also changing the
> previous "lines" to border of their UL or LI elements, but this is not
> yet implemented.

Note that the incoming-links, and context menu's will contain
unfoldable sub-menu's. Clicking on contenders, will fill that div
with the word contenders (link to close it again), and a list of
contenders. So don't turn it entirely into a list.

Also the main menu will contain the contents of the best rated 
LogiLogi/element/main_menu logi, so that one can't be a list 
either.

Only the elements menu can be a list.

> This is just a test. I've tested it in FF2.0 and IE6.0 and IE5.5 and
> if all went smoothly. I'd like to get feedback about other browsers
> please.

I don't have any other here, but except for IE7 I don't think for now
we really need any other browsers supported (though it would be nice
if they worked).

> There are still lot's of things to work at, but I'm sending this in
> order to get feedback.

Hereby, great so far!

I really hope we can show what we have so far to a wider audience
somewhere in the coming week. Yesterday evening I was at a Linux-
party here in London, and I showed Manta to some people, and they
were really enthausiastic. They even want to organize a LogiLogi-
day on the 28th of January (if we're done by then) on which people
will edit pages and discuss through LogiLogi. It would be great if 
we also organized such things in other places (I most likely will
in Groningen) so it could become really global.

Wybo

> Greeting you'all,
> 
> -- 
> Bruno

Hi all,

This is the temporal file where I'm working at
http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_1.html

Take a look at it and let me know how it behaves in different browsers.

The layout is made of a header, a body and a footer. The body has a
table with 3cols. I'll try next to move from table to DIVs since I
think it will work, but have to give some time to it and will do it
tomorrow.

I still will work on:
 * Left and right menues
 * Header requested/received urls
 * LogisBox colors and elements (Wybo, let me know what will be in there)
 * Font sizes in general. Now the sizes are the default ones.

I made some changes of layout to test how they worked, let me know
what you think:
 * changed the order of (nav_bar / url_bar / prefs_bar) TO (prefs_bar
/ url_bar / nav_bar) Also this test doesn't center them. The first
problem I find is that the search box is lost up there and I don't
like it. Obviously going back to the old layout is easy.
 * also, I'm changing the menues to lists, and also changing the
previous "lines" to border of their UL or LI elements, but this is not
yet implemented.

This is just a test. I've tested it in FF2.0 and IE6.0 and IE5.5 and
if all went smoothly. I'd like to get feedback about other browsers
please.

There are still lot's of things to work at, but I'm sending this in
order to get feedback.

Greeting you'all,

-- 
Bruno

> 
> Hi, Everybody in the List
> 

Sad, but these things happen...

> 
>   I'm sorry that I could be very busy in next serveral months. 

Ok. I just made links sortable.

One can use the .sort {|a,b| a.compare(b, :direction => :from) }
method to sort them, using the direction one needs as an argument...

> I'm afraid that I couldn't finish the task in time. So, please, everyone who 
> can  pick my tas

We hope it too! ;-)

Wybo

> all of you guys.
> 
>   ^_^
> 

Hi, Everybody in the List


  I'm sorry that I could be very busy in next serveral months. 
I'm afraid that I couldn't finish the task in time. So, please, everyone who 
can  pick my task, make the links sortable, just do it! :-)
  I'll keep an eye on this project, and hope I can soon come back to join with 
all of you guys.

  ^_^


jennifer

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Safety Center 为您的计算机提供免费的安全扫描服务。
http://safety.live.com/site/ZH-CN/default.htm

On 11/24/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> Hi from London! Rick, Bruno and the rest of us!
>
> London really is a beautifull city, and my host (tav, the guy
> behind green.tv) and his house-mates, are really hospitable.
>
Keep up green.tv!
I'm not sure if it was my bandwidth, but I couldn't play the first
video continuously.

> I've just committed a smal improvement to the diff-system to
> the svn-rep.
>
> Rick, if you have a sourceforge-account I can give you full
> developer access.
>
> > I've started to make tests and play with the layout and I want to get
> > to a layout with only one table but with text that scales right, and
> > maybe with a more fluid columns width.
>
> Great Bruno!
>
> Also if you feel like it, it would be great if you integrated
> it into layout.rhrml once it works.
>
I'll try this weekend.

> > I've visited your website designfreq.com and I can tell you that I
> > share your design filosophy and also believe LL should have lots of
>
> I've also had a look at your site, and indeed, Rails would
> really fit in nicely with your design-philosophy.
>
> Helping with Manta can give you the opportunity to learn it,
> (if you don't know it already) on a real project, which you
> then also can add to your portifolio.
>
> Wybo
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> LogiLogi-list mailing list
> Log...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>

later,

-- 
Bruno

Hi from London! Rick, Bruno and the rest of us!

London really is a beautifull city, and my host (tav, the guy 
behind green.tv) and his house-mates, are really hospitable.

I've just committed a smal improvement to the diff-system to
the svn-rep.

Rick, if you have a sourceforge-account I can give you full
developer access.

> I've started to make tests and play with the layout and I want to get
> to a layout with only one table but with text that scales right, and
> maybe with a more fluid columns width.

Great Bruno!

Also if you feel like it, it would be great if you integrated 
it into layout.rhrml once it works.

> I've visited your website designfreq.com and I can tell you that I
> share your design filosophy and also believe LL should have lots of

I've also had a look at your site, and indeed, Rails would 
really fit in nicely with your design-philosophy.

Helping with Manta can give you the opportunity to learn it,
(if you don't know it already) on a real project, which you 
then also can add to your portifolio.

Wybo

Hi Rick,

I'm the Bruno Wybo was talking about ;)
It's great to see somebody else interested in the UI, there is plenty
of work to do and lot's of ideas and lot's already done by Wybo.

I've started participating of LL not long ago, a month or so. I've
been working since then little time, and so far this are the
contributions:

 * New implementation of Wybos requested/received urls, table-less,
the url parts organized in lists (still have to work this concept) and
I tried to manage the html to make it fluid.

 * Created another Wybo's concept, LogiLogiLink (name?) which you can
see here: http://logilogi.org:3000/index_new_gui.html in the link in
the paragraph. Take a look at it and let me know your first
impressions. I think the concept is great an plays a big role in LL
UI. The concept of the link is that it has two posible actions,
depending which half of the link you click on. The first part will
behave as a normal link. The second half will display a popover box of
the Logis for that link (or target).

At the moment I'm working on the general layout. I intended to go for
a 3col table-less layout, but this would take some time to work right
(crosbrowser, etc) and I don't have that time before the release of
Manta version. We also don't find the need for a table-less layout at
the moment as the current layout works as expected, or at least as
Wybo wanted it to be.

I personally believe that for the GUI for the Manta release we should
stick first to the needs of the basic functions and then there will be
time for rethinking the GUI as a whole.

I've started to make tests and play with the layout and I want to get
to a layout with only one table but with text that scales right, and
maybe with a more fluid columns width.

On 11/23/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > How tied to the UI of the site are we?
>
> We are developing a new one on:
>
> http://logilogi.org:3000/index_new_gui.html
>
> and (the old new one):
>
> http://logilogi.org:3000/
>
> > I'd like to get involved in  UI/look & feel/ AJAX UI/ more DHTML and a more Web 2..0 style editing/Branding (Logi-Logo if you will).
>
> Bruno Sarlo is currently working on the UI. I will be leaving for London
> in 15 mins (back in a week), so you will first have to discuss with him
> about it (also on this list).
>
> About a Logo, we don't really need one now, but the icon in front of the
> url, but with it's colors modified to match the new UI would be something.
>
> We also have no real need for a logo because the header is quite full with
> meaningfull content.
>
I agree with wybo about the logo, and would like to add, that from the
first moment I saw the favicon of LogiLogi I thought it was exelent.
In fact, I believe that there is a lot of logic in the whole idea
arround here, the duality of what you requested and what you received,
the two colors for associate the concepts, the two "L", the similarity
of rythm of the name LogiLogi like the old WikiWiki's, although
LogiLogi is not mainly a Wiki ;)
http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiIsNoWiki

> > It looks like there are a few issues, for example the header and footer:
> >
> > en . LogiLogi.org  / MetaLogi / LogiLogiManta
> > en                   MetaLogi / LogiLogiManta
>
> This is actually meaningfull, but it comes from the old version.
>
> The top-url is the requested, the bottom the received. The new one is a
> bit different but essentially the same.
>
> > If the coming versions will be Ruby backed, we might start with a prototype/scriptaculous front end.
>
> Yep, in Rails, see also: http://en.logilogi.org/LogiLogiManta
>
> It would be a big pre if you know or learn Rails, even for the UI, or at
> least a bit of it.
>
> > Is the site template driven?
>
> Yes, as Rails is, and it's good practice.
>
> > Just let me know what I can do. I noticed that the JS task hasn't had much activity.
>
> The old version (now running at logilogi.org:80) indeed hasn't had much
> change, but that's because we're all working on the new one, and the old
> will be phased out in a few months.
>
> Welcome!,
>
> Wybo
>
> > -Rick
>

I've visited your website designfreq.com and I can tell you that I
share your design filosophy and also believe LL should have lots of
this kind of thinking. I believe that Wybo's decision of moving to
Ruby is the first step towards this goal since Ruby is from the bottom
a very clear language, object-oriented, etc, etc... it all fits!

Again Rick, welcome!, and please let me know your thoughts!

-- 
Bruno

> How tied to the UI of the site are we?

We are developing a new one on:

http://logilogi.org:3000/index_new_gui.html

and (the old new one):

http://logilogi.org:3000/

> I'd like to get involved in  UI/look & feel/ AJAX UI/ more DHTML and a more Web 2..0 style editing/Branding (Logi-Logo if you will).

Bruno Sarlo is currently working on the UI. I will be leaving for London 
in 15 mins (back in a week), so you will first have to discuss with him 
about it (also on this list).

About a Logo, we don't really need one now, but the icon in front of the 
url, but with it's colors modified to match the new UI would be something.

We also have no real need for a logo because the header is quite full with 
meaningfull content.

> It looks like there are a few issues, for example the header and footer:
>
> en . LogiLogi.org  / MetaLogi / LogiLogiManta
> en                   MetaLogi / LogiLogiManta

This is actually meaningfull, but it comes from the old version.

The top-url is the requested, the bottom the received. The new one is a 
bit different but essentially the same.

> If the coming versions will be Ruby backed, we might start with a prototype/scriptaculous front end.

Yep, in Rails, see also: http://en.logilogi.org/LogiLogiManta

It would be a big pre if you know or learn Rails, even for the UI, or at 
least a bit of it.

> Is the site template driven?

Yes, as Rails is, and it's good practice.

> Just let me know what I can do. I noticed that the JS task hasn't had much activity.

The old version (now running at logilogi.org:80) indeed hasn't had much 
change, but that's because we're all working on the new one, and the old
will be phased out in a few months.

Welcome!,

Wybo

> -Rick

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
  <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  <title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
How tied to the UI of the site are we?<br>
<br>
I'd like to get involved in&nbsp; UI/look &amp; feel/ AJAX UI/ more DHTML
and a more Web 2..0 style editing/Branding (Logi-Logo if you will).<br>
<br>
It looks like there are a few issues, for example the header and footer:<br>
<br>
<table>
  <tbody>
    <tr>
      <td>
      <table>
        <tbody>
          <tr>
            <td><a href="http://en.logilogi.org/">en</a></td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <td><a href="http://en.logilogi.org/">en</a></td>
          </tr>
        </tbody>
      </table>
      </td>
      <td><font style="font-size: 3em;">.</font></td>
      <td> <font style="font-size: 3em;"> <a
 href="http://en.logilogi.org/">LogiLogi.org</a> </font> </td>
      <td><font style="font-size: 3em;">/</font></td>
      <td>
      <table>
        <tbody>
          <tr>
            <td><a href="http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiManta#"
 http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi');return" rel="nofollow">http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi');return true"
 
 http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi','','1')" rel="nofollow">http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi','','1')">MetaLogi</a>
/ <a href="http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiManta#"
 http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiManta');return" rel="nofollow">http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiManta');return true"
 
 http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiManta','en','1')" rel="nofollow">http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiManta','en','1')">LogiLogiManta</a></td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <td><a href="http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiManta#"
 http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi');return" rel="nofollow">http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi');return true"
 
 http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi','','1')" rel="nofollow">http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi','','1')">MetaLogi</a>
/ <a href="http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiManta#"
 http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiManta');return" rel="nofollow">http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiManta');return true"
 
 http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiManta','en','1')" rel="nofollow">http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiManta','en','1')">LogiLogiManta</a></td>
          </tr>
        </tbody>
      </table>
      </td>
    </tr>
  </tbody>
</table>
<br>
If the coming versions will be Ruby backed, we might start with a
prototype/scriptaculous front end.<br>
<br>
Is the site template driven?<br>
<br>
Just let me know what I can do. I noticed that the JS task hasn't had
much activity.<br>
<br>
-Rick<br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>

I'll keep it very short because I have a flight to catch
tomorrow-morning... I looked at the picture of you two working, what
an amazing view you have!

By the way I fixed the diffing, and created a very basic edit-window.
Saving doesn't work yet, and such, and it's quite ugly, but just to
get a feel of it. It's all committed.

> > The first concern is the RedCloth task, for showing the links, which
> > is already assigned to Miguel and you. Another thing that really needs
> > to get done is the scaling 3-column layout, whether with or without a
> > table. Without it anything longer than one page will overlap with the
> > footer.
> 
> Ok, I have to make this point clear, since we've been talking for long
> about this. The only thing that is keeping us back from going
> tableless is the footer, but the problem with the footer is not the
> overlapping, the problem (afaik) is that in a standard 3col tableless
> header and footer layout, the footer WONT stay at the bottom of screen
> if the page is shorter than the hight of the browser window. At least
> this is the conclusion I came to from what you said.
> This can also be seen as a standards compatibility problem, since
> max-height and min-height should solve this.
> 
> The point here may be whether is necessary or not to have the footer
> stick to the bottom whenever the page is shorter.

The problem here is that many pages will be shorter, if not most, so
it will be very ugly.

I'd consider it great if we could combine the best from the old (the
table) and the new, and get it working. Otherwise we might have to
drop the footer alltogether.

> > Other things that can be done are adding an user interface for setting
> > the user-preferences, and for showing the concepts for words, and so
> > on. The dropdown-selection of alternative concepts in the requested
> > link of the url-bar is something that also still can be done.
>
>  * User preferences

PrefsProfile class.

>  * Concepts for words and so on - How and where to display this?

Just a page listing the concepts, possibly with a first line from the
logi or the description-logi. Be creative...

>  * dropdown-selection of alternative concepts in the requested link of
> the url-bar

Indeed.

My next post will be from London (I hope ;-),

Wybo

On 11/22/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > >> Wybo, as you may know, we (Miguel and I) live in Uruguay at the
> > >> moment. Miguel will move to France at the end of December and I hope
> > >> to be in Spain in March 2007. The point of my concern, is that after
> > >> this month I'll be traveling arround (Uruguay) and enjoying our
> > >
> > >Should be beautiful to travel there! I've never been in sub-saharan
> > >Africa.
> >
> > WTF!!!
> > sub-saharan Africa!.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay
>
> I should have payed attention more at geograpy in school. I am really
> sorry that I was wrong on locating Uruguay.
>
> I have neither ever been in South America.

Ok! so this is an invitation. Get over here whenever you want! The
best time to enjoy beaches is summer (dah) and the best climate should
be January.

> Are you and Bruno originaly from Uruguay or from Spain, or neither ?
>
I'm originally from Uruguay. I'm a European citizen dough. I'm
planning to move to Europe next year with my girlfriend and Spain
could be the first stop.

> Wybo
>

Also, it would be very interesting to have a video-chat, or at least chat.

greetings,

-- 
Bruno

On 11/22/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > > When ever you want Bruno we can try to work together on this.
> > > Sorry i am a little bit lost, i am getting married next week :p
> >
> > We'll work on this, but I'm worried about upcoming time.
>
> I have similar concerns, but even if we don't manage to finish it
> before January, I at least will just continue working on it into
> January and maybe February / March. At that time it surely will
> be up and running.
>
I only wish I had known about this project before, and I'm glad I
subscribed to that Citizendium list! but reality is I've got little
time to work in the coming months, mostly because it's summer time
here...

I'll do my best.

> > Wybo, as you may know, we (Miguel and I) live in Uruguay at the
> > moment. Miguel will move to France at the end of December and I hope
> > to be in Spain in March 2007. The point of my concern, is that after
> > this month I'll be traveling arround (Uruguay) and enjoying our
>
> Should be beautiful to travel there! I've never been in sub-saharan
> Africa.
>
Ok, that was funny.

> > Summer, so I'd like to know what tasks will you assign us (or at least
> > me) so I can work focused on your needs for the next release.
>
> The first concern is the RedCloth task, for showing the links, which
> is already assigned to Miguel and you. Another thing that really needs
> to get done is the scaling 3-column layout, whether with or without a
> table. Without it anything longer than one page will overlap with the
> footer.

Ok, I have to make this point clear, since we've been talking for long
about this. The only thing that is keeping us back from going
tableless is the footer, but the problem with the footer is not the
overlapping, the problem (afaik) is that in a standard 3col tableless
header and footer layout, the footer WONT stay at the bottom of screen
if the page is shorter than the hight of the browser window. At least
this is the conclusion I came to from what you said.
This can also be seen as a standards compatibility problem, since
max-height and min-height should solve this.

The point here may be whether is necessary or not to have the footer
stick to the bottom whenever the page is shorter.

>
> Other things that can be done are adding an user interface for setting
> the user-preferences, and for showing the concepts for words, and so
> on. The dropdown-selection of alternative concepts in the requested
> link of the url-bar is something that also still can be done.
>
 * User preferences
 * Concepts for words and so on - How and where to display this?
 * dropdown-selection of alternative concepts in the requested link of
the url-bar


> > I haven't been working much, but I'll have some time this week I hope,
> > and then in December I'll be able to work some more.
>
> Ok. Great!
>
> I will be leaving for a week to London tomorrow morning, and tonight I
> have a discussion-evening. I hope to be able to do some work in
> London. Also in the coming hours I try to finish the de-bugging of the
> diff-tool. I can already say that it is about 4 times as fast.
>
This is great!

> greetings,
>
> Wybo
>
> > In conclusion, let me know if there is something else, so we get it rounded ;)
> >
> > Have a nice day!
> >
> > --
> > Bruno
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> LogiLogi-list mailing list
> Log...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>


-- 
Bruno

> >> Wybo, as you may know, we (Miguel and I) live in Uruguay at the
> >> moment. Miguel will move to France at the end of December and I hope
> >> to be in Spain in March 2007. The point of my concern, is that after
> >> this month I'll be traveling arround (Uruguay) and enjoying our
> >
> >Should be beautiful to travel there! I've never been in sub-saharan
> >Africa.
> 
> WTF!!!
> sub-saharan Africa!.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay

I should have payed attention more at geograpy in school. I am really
sorry that I was wrong on locating Uruguay.

I have neither ever been in South America.

Are you and Bruno originaly from Uruguay or from Spain, or neither ?

Wybo

On 11/22/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
>
> > > When ever you want Bruno we can try to work together on this.
> > > Sorry i am a little bit lost, i am getting married next week :p
> >
> > We'll work on this, but I'm worried about upcoming time.
>
> I have similar concerns, but even if we don't manage to finish it
> before January, I at least will just continue working on it into
> January and maybe February / March. At that time it surely will
> be up and running.
>
> > Wybo, as you may know, we (Miguel and I) live in Uruguay at the
> > moment. Miguel will move to France at the end of December and I hope
> > to be in Spain in March 2007. The point of my concern, is that after
> > this month I'll be traveling arround (Uruguay) and enjoying our
>
> Should be beautiful to travel there! I've never been in sub-saharan
> Africa.



WTF!!!
sub-saharan Africa!.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay

> Summer, so I'd like to know what tasks will you assign us (or at least
> > me) so I can work focused on your needs for the next release.
>
> The first concern is the RedCloth task, for showing the links, which
> is already assigned to Miguel and you. Another thing that really needs
> to get done is the scaling 3-column layout, whether with or without a
> table. Without it anything longer than one page will overlap with the
> footer.
>
> Other things that can be done are adding an user interface for setting
> the user-preferences, and for showing the concepts for words, and so
> on. The dropdown-selection of alternative concepts in the requested
> link of the url-bar is something that also still can be done.
>
> > I haven't been working much, but I'll have some time this week I hope,
> > and then in December I'll be able to work some more.
>
> Ok. Great!
>
> I will be leaving for a week to London tomorrow morning, and tonight I
> have a discussion-evening. I hope to be able to do some work in
> London. Also in the coming hours I try to finish the de-bugging of the
> diff-tool. I can already say that it is about 4 times as fast.
>
> greetings,
>
> Wybo
>
> > In conclusion, let me know if there is something else, so we get it
> rounded ;)
> >
> > Have a nice day!
> >
> > --
> > Bruno
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-- 
Miguel Lezama
+598 99 7435655
+598 2 7120822

> > When ever you want Bruno we can try to work together on this.
> > Sorry i am a little bit lost, i am getting married next week :p
> 
> We'll work on this, but I'm worried about upcoming time.

I have similar concerns, but even if we don't manage to finish it
before January, I at least will just continue working on it into
January and maybe February / March. At that time it surely will 
be up and running.

> Wybo, as you may know, we (Miguel and I) live in Uruguay at the
> moment. Miguel will move to France at the end of December and I hope
> to be in Spain in March 2007. The point of my concern, is that after
> this month I'll be traveling arround (Uruguay) and enjoying our

Should be beautiful to travel there! I've never been in sub-saharan
Africa.

> Summer, so I'd like to know what tasks will you assign us (or at least
> me) so I can work focused on your needs for the next release.

The first concern is the RedCloth task, for showing the links, which
is already assigned to Miguel and you. Another thing that really needs 
to get done is the scaling 3-column layout, whether with or without a 
table. Without it anything longer than one page will overlap with the 
footer.

Other things that can be done are adding an user interface for setting
the user-preferences, and for showing the concepts for words, and so
on. The dropdown-selection of alternative concepts in the requested
link of the url-bar is something that also still can be done.

> I haven't been working much, but I'll have some time this week I hope,
> and then in December I'll be able to work some more.

Ok. Great!

I will be leaving for a week to London tomorrow morning, and tonight I
have a discussion-evening. I hope to be able to do some work in
London. Also in the coming hours I try to finish the de-bugging of the
diff-tool. I can already say that it is about 4 times as fast.

greetings,

Wybo

> In conclusion, let me know if there is something else, so we get it rounded ;)
> 
> Have a nice day!
> 
> -- 
> Bruno

On 11/21/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > >> You can if you want, and of course if Miguel agrees to co-operate
> > >> closely on this with you...
> >
> > When ever you want Bruno we can try to work together on this.
> > Sorry i am a little bit lost, i am getting married next week :p
>
> Congratulations with your marriage already!
>
> I am currently still working on the diffing. This weekend I have been
> thinking about a faster implementation of it. Now I know that
> performance is not priority, but the performance of the old
> implementation was very slow (more than 5 sec on a core 2 duo
> workstation for one diff). The new one, which is almost debugged will
> be fast enough.

Great!

>
> Bruno I will formulate the core things to do tomorrow, I really need
> to get some sleep now.
>
Great too!

> Good night,
>
> Wybo
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
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>

Good night.

-- 
Bruno

> >> You can if you want, and of course if Miguel agrees to co-operate
> >> closely on this with you...
> 
> When ever you want Bruno we can try to work together on this.
> Sorry i am a little bit lost, i am getting married next week :p

Congratulations with your marriage already!

I am currently still working on the diffing. This weekend I have been
thinking about a faster implementation of it. Now I know that
performance is not priority, but the performance of the old
implementation was very slow (more than 5 sec on a core 2 duo
workstation for one diff). The new one, which is almost debugged will
be fast enough.

Bruno I will formulate the core things to do tomorrow, I really need
to get some sleep now.

Good night,

Wybo

A bit replying to miguel and starting a new thread.

>
> When ever you want Bruno we can try to work together on this.
> Sorry i am a little bit lost, i am getting married next week :p
>

We'll work on this, but I'm worried about upcoming time.

Wybo, as you may know, we (Miguel and I) live in Uruguay at the
moment. Miguel will move to France at the end of December and I hope
to be in Spain in March 2007. The point of my concern, is that after
this month I'll be traveling arround (Uruguay) and enjoying our
Summer, so I'd like to know what tasks will you assign us (or at least
me) so I can work focused on your needs for the next release.

I haven't been working much, but I'll have some time this week I hope,
and then in December I'll be able to work some more.

In conclusion, let me know if there is something else, so we get it rounded ;)

Have a nice day!

-- 
Bruno

On 11/20/06, Bruno Sarlo <bs...@gm...> wrote:
>
> On 11/20/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > > >     maybe the div here too
> > > >   </span>
> > > > </span>
> > > >
> > > > The 3d argument is the place where the ajax-call should go to fill
> up
> > > > the drop-down span/div.
> > > >
> > > > The 4rd argument, and 'link16' span-id refer to this link being the
> > > > 16th link-cluster in the Logi currently being shown, as this will be
> > > > always unique, while LogiLogiLink does not need to be (word could be
> > > > occurring twice with different links behind it....)
> > > >
> > > Ok, this is the poing where server side mixs with client side. I
> > > suggest to make the most in Server Side and print it plain, so there
> > > will be less work for javascript (supose 30 logilogilinks in a page),
> >
> > That's true but it's a lot less neat, and most users have over-
> > powered computers anyway, while our server will have quite a hard life
> > due to the complexity of Manta, and the in-efficiency in terms of
> > performance, of Ruby.
> >
> > But ok. It's no top priority.
> >
> Ok, so we'll make it the fastest way posible (fastest for us to
> develop), then we'll see where it's done more efficiently.
>
> > > and also non-javascript browsers will still be able to work.
> >
> > This last one is a good argument, although then of course we would
> > have to make sure that it works in non-Javascript-browsers...
> >
> Ok... the paragraphs will definitely be broken in a text browser like
> Lynx. It would be really interesting to try to solve this problem
> too... at the moment (when we finish it), if the user doesn't have
> javascript, there won't be no problem and only the link will be
> colored half and half, but there won't be logis for them. Dough if you
> click on the link it will follow and on that page you could see the
> logis I believe. Anyway, this is also no top priority as you said
>
> > > We will work on this and commit the code. I hope we can work on the
> > > textile part too.
> >
> > You can if you want, and of course if Miguel agrees to co-operate
> > closely on this with you...
> >



When ever you want Bruno we can try to work together on this.
Sorry i am a little bit lost, i am getting married next week :p


> > I'd like to fully understand the working, the future ideas, and really
> > > understan the flow of LogiLogiManta, and then I'd like to work on the
> > > UI as a whole, but now I'll just stick to your design. I'm telling
> > > this becouse while trying to test some 3columns layout I found that
> > > there were things that should change for this to work, and when one
> > > concept changes, it makes many other to change too, and then it will
> > > take too much time, and I really don't know at the moment if any
> > > change is for better, as I didn't see the current UI workin (in
> > > Manta).
> >
> > The UI of the old version of LogiLogi (www.logilogi.org) works as a
> > largely div- based 3-column-layout with a footer that sticks to the
> > bottom if pages are smaller than the screen-size, and is quite
> > similar to the new one (at least it works in my browser).
> >
> Ok, when I talk about 3columns layouts I'm talking about divs-only,
> tableless... Then, your layout works perfect, also in IE.
>
> > Still tables play an important role in it, actually they do the trick,
> > but it has problems too (scaling doesn't work well). Still we need to
> > decide whether there is a better solution, or whether we should accept
> > the usage of a table for now.
> The scalling is not a table problem (I believe). I'll try to work on this
> too.
>
> >
> > (it is also optimized for search-engines by putting the real content
> > at the top of the page, but since google got smarter this is not
> > needed anymore, i've heard from people in the Search Engine
> > Optimalization field...)
> >
> This shouldn't be needed, dough it will help to have site-wide
> identified where the main content will be and stick to that. For what
> I know (not much) about SEO, we are always trying to communicate with
> the search engines, so I try to keep that in mind. Also I believe
> logilogi will be an explosion to any webcrowler for the amount of
> logis related to a word, pages requested that shows other content...
> I'm not sure how this will work, but I think it's a information-rich
> structure so this should be good if well planned (for SE). Also,
> crowlers are one of those users that won't have javascript (for
> now)... :)
>
> > > > No, happily enough not, that would be horrible.
> > > >
> > > > You will enter:
> > > >
> > > > Hello "LogiLogi":botanics/george_bush;!
> > > >
> > > OOOOkk.. Sorry I got confused. Now this is much more like a Wiki link
> > > (but with much more knowledge/logi behind it ;)
> >
> > ;-)
> >
> > > > Note that Rails has beautifull functions for calling through AJAX
> (like
> > > > link_to_remote), so you don't need to re-invent the wheel on this,
> > > > although we cannot use it right-away because it combines
> link-generation
> > > > and adding the Javascript for the AJAX-call.
> > > >
> > > Ok, I'll have to re-read this many times, then the mantadocs, then
> > > read this again, then some more ruby, then read this again, and then I
> > > might understand it better. Thanks for the explanations, but I just
> > > don't know enough Ruby/Textile/Javascript/LogiLogi to get a clear line
> > > of the process step by step, but I'll get there soon.
> >
> > Ok.
> >
> > > > Also the GPL v3 will come out in it's final version soon, maybe even
> > > > just before Manta goes live.
> > >
> > > Yes! I was talking about the same you said. I was talking about the
> > > release of the GPLv3. When it's released you could use just GPL as the
> > > licence, but GPLv3 will be the same. I also see you've been around
> > > licenses and probably know more about it than I do.
> >
> > 'k Then we agree ;-)
> >
> > > > > Also, Manta should be in the Savanna as a GNU project when it's
> > > > > released. Don't you think? I could work on that too if you think
> so,
> > > > > but with time.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think it is necessary because we are already on both
> > > > Sourceforge and RubyForge, which offer simmilar services.
> > > >
> > > > Of course we might move there simply because GNU is closer to the
> core
> > > > of Free Software, or because their services are better, but as far
> as
> > > > I can find it they don't provide Subversion at the moment.
> > >
> > > You are right. I should have said "could" in stead of "should".
> > > There also is the http://directory.fsf.org/
> >
> > We definitely want to try to get in there, and we're already on
> > Freshmeat too.
> >
> > friendly greetings,
> >
> > Wybo
> >
> > (managed to answer to this one too, before the lecture)
> >
> Thanks for answering. Good luck with the lecture.
>
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
> your
> > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
> >
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> > _______________________________________________
> > LogiLogi-list mailing list
> > Log...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
> >
>
>
> --
> Bruno
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
> your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
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>



-- 
Miguel Lezama
+598 99 7435655
+598 2 7120822

On 11/20/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > >     maybe the div here too
> > >   </span>
> > > </span>
> > >
> > > The 3d argument is the place where the ajax-call should go to fill up
> > > the drop-down span/div.
> > >
> > > The 4rd argument, and 'link16' span-id refer to this link being the
> > > 16th link-cluster in the Logi currently being shown, as this will be
> > > always unique, while LogiLogiLink does not need to be (word could be
> > > occurring twice with different links behind it....)
> > >
> > Ok, this is the poing where server side mixs with client side. I
> > suggest to make the most in Server Side and print it plain, so there
> > will be less work for javascript (supose 30 logilogilinks in a page),
>
> That's true but it's a lot less neat, and most users have over-
> powered computers anyway, while our server will have quite a hard life
> due to the complexity of Manta, and the in-efficiency in terms of
> performance, of Ruby.
>
> But ok. It's no top priority.
>
Ok, so we'll make it the fastest way posible (fastest for us to
develop), then we'll see where it's done more efficiently.

> > and also non-javascript browsers will still be able to work.
>
> This last one is a good argument, although then of course we would
> have to make sure that it works in non-Javascript-browsers...
>
Ok... the paragraphs will definitely be broken in a text browser like
Lynx. It would be really interesting to try to solve this problem
too... at the moment (when we finish it), if the user doesn't have
javascript, there won't be no problem and only the link will be
colored half and half, but there won't be logis for them. Dough if you
click on the link it will follow and on that page you could see the
logis I believe. Anyway, this is also no top priority as you said

> > We will work on this and commit the code. I hope we can work on the
> > textile part too.
>
> You can if you want, and of course if Miguel agrees to co-operate
> closely on this with you...
>
> > I'd like to fully understand the working, the future ideas, and really
> > understan the flow of LogiLogiManta, and then I'd like to work on the
> > UI as a whole, but now I'll just stick to your design. I'm telling
> > this becouse while trying to test some 3columns layout I found that
> > there were things that should change for this to work, and when one
> > concept changes, it makes many other to change too, and then it will
> > take too much time, and I really don't know at the moment if any
> > change is for better, as I didn't see the current UI workin (in
> > Manta).
>
> The UI of the old version of LogiLogi (www.logilogi.org) works as a
> largely div- based 3-column-layout with a footer that sticks to the
> bottom if pages are smaller than the screen-size, and is quite
> similar to the new one (at least it works in my browser).
>
Ok, when I talk about 3columns layouts I'm talking about divs-only,
tableless... Then, your layout works perfect, also in IE.

> Still tables play an important role in it, actually they do the trick,
> but it has problems too (scaling doesn't work well). Still we need to
> decide whether there is a better solution, or whether we should accept
> the usage of a table for now.
The scalling is not a table problem (I believe). I'll try to work on this too.

>
> (it is also optimized for search-engines by putting the real content
> at the top of the page, but since google got smarter this is not
> needed anymore, i've heard from people in the Search Engine
> Optimalization field...)
>
This shouldn't be needed, dough it will help to have site-wide
identified where the main content will be and stick to that. For what
I know (not much) about SEO, we are always trying to communicate with
the search engines, so I try to keep that in mind. Also I believe
logilogi will be an explosion to any webcrowler for the amount of
logis related to a word, pages requested that shows other content...
I'm not sure how this will work, but I think it's a information-rich
structure so this should be good if well planned (for SE). Also,
crowlers are one of those users that won't have javascript (for
now)... :)

> > > No, happily enough not, that would be horrible.
> > >
> > > You will enter:
> > >
> > > Hello "LogiLogi":botanics/george_bush;!
> > >
> > OOOOkk.. Sorry I got confused. Now this is much more like a Wiki link
> > (but with much more knowledge/logi behind it ;)
>
> ;-)
>
> > > Note that Rails has beautifull functions for calling through AJAX (like
> > > link_to_remote), so you don't need to re-invent the wheel on this,
> > > although we cannot use it right-away because it combines link-generation
> > > and adding the Javascript for the AJAX-call.
> > >
> > Ok, I'll have to re-read this many times, then the mantadocs, then
> > read this again, then some more ruby, then read this again, and then I
> > might understand it better. Thanks for the explanations, but I just
> > don't know enough Ruby/Textile/Javascript/LogiLogi to get a clear line
> > of the process step by step, but I'll get there soon.
>
> Ok.
>
> > > Also the GPL v3 will come out in it's final version soon, maybe even
> > > just before Manta goes live.
> >
> > Yes! I was talking about the same you said. I was talking about the
> > release of the GPLv3. When it's released you could use just GPL as the
> > licence, but GPLv3 will be the same. I also see you've been around
> > licenses and probably know more about it than I do.
>
> 'k Then we agree ;-)
>
> > > > Also, Manta should be in the Savanna as a GNU project when it's
> > > > released. Don't you think? I could work on that too if you think so,
> > > > but with time.
> > >
> > > I don't think it is necessary because we are already on both
> > > Sourceforge and RubyForge, which offer simmilar services.
> > >
> > > Of course we might move there simply because GNU is closer to the core
> > > of Free Software, or because their services are better, but as far as
> > > I can find it they don't provide Subversion at the moment.
> >
> > You are right. I should have said "could" in stead of "should".
> > There also is the http://directory.fsf.org/
>
> We definitely want to try to get in there, and we're already on
> Freshmeat too.
>
> friendly greetings,
>
> Wybo
>
> (managed to answer to this one too, before the lecture)
>
Thanks for answering. Good luck with the lecture.

> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> LogiLogi-list mailing list
> Log...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>


-- 
Bruno

> >     maybe the div here too
> >   </span>
> > </span>
> >
> > The 3d argument is the place where the ajax-call should go to fill up
> > the drop-down span/div.
> >
> > The 4rd argument, and 'link16' span-id refer to this link being the
> > 16th link-cluster in the Logi currently being shown, as this will be
> > always unique, while LogiLogiLink does not need to be (word could be
> > occurring twice with different links behind it....)
> >
> Ok, this is the poing where server side mixs with client side. I
> suggest to make the most in Server Side and print it plain, so there
> will be less work for javascript (supose 30 logilogilinks in a page),

That's true but it's a lot less neat, and most users have over-
powered computers anyway, while our server will have quite a hard life
due to the complexity of Manta, and the in-efficiency in terms of
performance, of Ruby.

But ok. It's no top priority.

> and also non-javascript browsers will still be able to work.

This last one is a good argument, although then of course we would
have to make sure that it works in non-Javascript-browsers...

> We will work on this and commit the code. I hope we can work on the
> textile part too.

You can if you want, and of course if Miguel agrees to co-operate 
closely on this with you...

> I'd like to fully understand the working, the future ideas, and really
> understan the flow of LogiLogiManta, and then I'd like to work on the
> UI as a whole, but now I'll just stick to your design. I'm telling
> this becouse while trying to test some 3columns layout I found that
> there were things that should change for this to work, and when one
> concept changes, it makes many other to change too, and then it will
> take too much time, and I really don't know at the moment if any
> change is for better, as I didn't see the current UI workin (in
> Manta).

The UI of the old version of LogiLogi (www.logilogi.org) works as a
largely div- based 3-column-layout with a footer that sticks to the
bottom if pages are smaller than the screen-size, and is quite 
similar to the new one (at least it works in my browser).

Still tables play an important role in it, actually they do the trick,
but it has problems too (scaling doesn't work well). Still we need to
decide whether there is a better solution, or whether we should accept
the usage of a table for now.

(it is also optimized for search-engines by putting the real content
at the top of the page, but since google got smarter this is not
needed anymore, i've heard from people in the Search Engine
Optimalization field...)

> > No, happily enough not, that would be horrible.
> >
> > You will enter:
> >
> > Hello "LogiLogi":botanics/george_bush;!
> >
> OOOOkk.. Sorry I got confused. Now this is much more like a Wiki link
> (but with much more knowledge/logi behind it ;)

;-)

> > Note that Rails has beautifull functions for calling through AJAX (like
> > link_to_remote), so you don't need to re-invent the wheel on this,
> > although we cannot use it right-away because it combines link-generation
> > and adding the Javascript for the AJAX-call.
> >
> Ok, I'll have to re-read this many times, then the mantadocs, then
> read this again, then some more ruby, then read this again, and then I
> might understand it better. Thanks for the explanations, but I just
> don't know enough Ruby/Textile/Javascript/LogiLogi to get a clear line
> of the process step by step, but I'll get there soon.

Ok.

> > Also the GPL v3 will come out in it's final version soon, maybe even
> > just before Manta goes live.
>
> Yes! I was talking about the same you said. I was talking about the
> release of the GPLv3. When it's released you could use just GPL as the
> licence, but GPLv3 will be the same. I also see you've been around
> licenses and probably know more about it than I do.

'k Then we agree ;-)

> > > Also, Manta should be in the Savanna as a GNU project when it's
> > > released. Don't you think? I could work on that too if you think so,
> > > but with time.
> >
> > I don't think it is necessary because we are already on both
> > Sourceforge and RubyForge, which offer simmilar services.
> >
> > Of course we might move there simply because GNU is closer to the core
> > of Free Software, or because their services are better, but as far as
> > I can find it they don't provide Subversion at the moment.
>
> You are right. I should have said "could" in stead of "should".
> There also is the http://directory.fsf.org/

We definitely want to try to get in there, and we're already on 
Freshmeat too.

friendly greetings,

Wybo

(managed to answer to this one too, before the lecture)

Hi, all, I just came back. I have a lecture in a minute, so I will
answer only one short e-mail now.

Welcome back Jennifer!,

>  There is a problem in the  the <=>-operator of link
> 
> self.link_parts[i] <=> other.link_parts[i]
> 
>  There is no link_parts method in it. I think maybe 

You are right.

Sorting by requested_to_link_parts is the most frequent use, and the
easiest to test, so all link_parts method-calls should be replaced 
by requested_to_link_parts.

You couldn't know this, and I should have told (or done this myself).

> it's for getting every link_part of the link by the method.
>  I tried to finish it. And I noticed that there are three 
> kinds of, or directions for LinkPart: requested ,received and
>  from. I'm a bit confused about this. And when sorting links,
> should the kind of LinkPart affect the order?

Yes it should.

> BTW: I'm sorry for my English! :(

Your English is quite good!

Wybo

> Jennifer

On 11/17/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > > No, the link-splitting happens server-side, that's why links like this
> > > one are already split in the output (that will be input for RedCloth):
> >
> > Ok, so my code will stay as it is now.
>
> It would be really neat if you added a wrapper function around the
> Javascript, so the following:
>
> <span class="logilogi_link">
>   <a href="#left_side">
>     <span class="first_half_link"
>       title="This is the first half of the link">LogiLo</span><span class="second_half_link"
>       id="second_half_link"
>       title="this is the second half of the link"
>       >giLink
>     </span>
>   </a>
>   <span class="logis_box" id="LogiLogiLink">
>   </span>
> </span>
>
> Would become:
>
> <span class="logilogi_link">
>   <a href="#left_side">
>     onload-function that adds the stuff that fits in above like
>     dropDownLogiLink('LogiLo','giLink','en.logilogi.org/link/list/5','link16')
>   </a>
>   <span class="logis_box" id="link16">
>     maybe the div here too
>   </span>
> </span>
>
> The 3d argument is the place where the ajax-call should go to fill up
> the drop-down span/div.
>
> The 4rd argument, and 'link16' span-id refer to this link being the
> 16th link-cluster in the Logi currently being shown, as this will be
> always unique, while LogiLogiLink does not need to be (word could be
> occurring twice with different links behind it....)
>
Ok, this is the poing where server side mixs with client side. I
suggest to make the most in Server Side and print it plain, so there
will be less work for javascript (supose 30 logilogilinks in a page),
and also non-javascript browsers will still be able to work.
We will work on this and commit the code. I hope we can work on the
textile part too.

> > > Actually first the idea was to only place it around the second part on
> > > the server, and leave the first part as a normal link, but I really
> > > like what you did with the background-colors, so we will keep it your
> > > way.
> >
> > Ok, I'm glad you liked the two colors, I just got the concept from
> > your top bar, which as I can see it, talks a lot about LogiLogi, and
> > represents very well the nature of LogiLogi, as far as I understand.
>
> It makes things clear indeed, and it looks good too. The border of the
> drop-down & bg-color however might be changed to match the menu's, and
> in the dropdown there will be links (with green background, like for
> received in incoming links) and below those listings of logi's with
> their score and a white background (like for logi in incoming, but not
> with borders inbetween).
>
Ok, I'll adapt this things to feet the current design.

I'd like to fully understand the working, the future ideas, and really
understan the flow of LogiLogiManta, and then I'd like to work on the
UI as a whole, but now I'll just stick to your design. I'm telling
this becouse while trying to test some 3columns layout I found that
there were things that should change for this to work, and when one
concept changes, it makes many other to change too, and then it will
take too much time, and I really don't know at the moment if any
change is for better, as I didn't see the current UI workin (in
Manta).

> > About the links, RedCloth and the html, still have some questions,.
> >
> > I'm not understanding the process between the text I enter in the edit
> > mode and the output, and if we make some things clearer it will help
> > me to understand better what you and Miguel are trying to do.
> > For what I understand, this are the steps:
> >   * I enter some text in the edit mode "Hello LogiLogi!" but I want to
> > make "LogiLogi" a logilogilink, so this would be the final text I
> > enter:
> >
> > Hello "Logi(botanics/george_bush)":do:logi/view/botanics/george_bush;"Logi":do:link/list/1;!
>
> No, happily enough not, that would be horrible.
>
> You will enter:
>
> Hello "LogiLogi":botanics/george_bush;!
>
OOOOkk.. Sorry I got confused. Now this is much more like a Wiki link
(but with much more knowledge/logi behind it ;)

> >   * The next step, is RedCloth, which understands that LogiLogi is a
> > "dual" link and executes the "do:" parts of both halves of the link.
>
> The next step is the textile= method of LogiVersion. That one will
> filter out the links (without relation to RedCloth), and store them
> in the db.
>
> Then on viewing (for editing they will come back out as they came in)
> links are parsed back in as dual, like what you started with above:
>
> Hello "Logi(botanics/george_bush)":do:logi/view/botanics/george_bush;"Logi":do:link/list/1;!
>
> > The first "do:" of the link is telling RedCloth to create a link to
> > "botanics/george_bush". The second part will make the "list". (what is
> > the "1" for in "link/list/1"?)
>
> No the second part tells it to create the link for the AJAX-call.
> Actually RedCloth will have to parse the dual links as one match,
> because otherwise it would not be possible to add the javascript-
> code around both parts.
>
> The "do:"-part tells it to feed the other parts into the rails
> link_to method to get the link.
>
> >   * Then the next step would be a "view" output, where RedCloth would
> > parse the link template I've made and insert the variables, like this:
> >
> > <a href="logi/view/botanics/george_bush">
> > <span class="first_half_link" >Logi</span>
> > <span class="second_half_link">Logi</span>
> > </a>
> > <span class="logis_box">
> > <ul>
> > <li>
> > <a href="botanics/definitions/Bush">Bush (botanics)</a> score: 0.62
> > </li>
> > <li>
> > <a href="people/presidents/george_bush">George W. Bush (president)</a>
> > score: 0.52
> > </li>
> > </ul>
> > </span>
>
> Not quite, the span will not be filled up yet with the scores. That
> only happens through AJAX when the user clicks the second part of the
> link (otherwise it would be quite database-intensive).
>
> Note that Rails has beautifull functions for calling through AJAX (like
> link_to_remote), so you don't need to re-invent the wheel on this,
> although we cannot use it right-away because it combines link-generation
> and adding the Javascript for the AJAX-call.
>
Ok, I'll have to re-read this many times, then the mantadocs, then
read this again, then some more ruby, then read this again, and then I
might understand it better. Thanks for the explanations, but I just
don't know enough Ruby/Textile/Javascript/LogiLogi to get a clear line
of the process step by step, but I'll get there soon.

> > I'm pasting this code here to make it clear.
> > Could you explain this shortly how is it in a grafical way?
>
> I hope I made it a bit less unclear...
>
> > By the way, today I was going through the trunk and saw the doc/LICENCE.TXT
> > Using GPLv3_draft from the beggining is a very smart move and I
> > believe it should have value, dough it could have bugs, so that's the
> > danger of Beta testings... ;)
>
> I think that in this case GPL v2 has more "bugs" for web-use,
> because it does not allow extra clauses that also consider running
> it on a webserver to be spreading it, and thus requiring one to
> release the sourcecode. Also I appended the Afferro-GPL at the
> bottom, which is GPL v2 + simmilar clauses sanctioned by the FSF.
>
> > After released you could use GPL plain and that would mean the
> > latest version.
>
> I would rather not have the code under GPL v2 or later, because that
> would mean people can choose version 2, and thus create a closed
> version of LogiLogi that they simply share with no-one, but just run
> on their servers.
>
> Also the GPL v3 will come out in it's final version soon, maybe even
> just before Manta goes live.
>
Yes! I was talking about the same you said. I was talking about the
release of the GPLv3. When it's released you could use just GPL as the
licence, but GPLv3 will be the same. I also see you've been around
licenses and probably know more about it than I do.

> > Also, Manta should be in the Savanna as a GNU project when it's
> > released. Don't you think? I could work on that too if you think so,
> > but with time.
>
> I don't think it is necessary because we are already on both
> Sourceforge and RubyForge, which offer simmilar services.
>
> Of course we might move there simply because GNU is closer to the core
> of Free Software, or because their services are better, but as far as
> I can find it they don't provide Subversion at the moment.
>
You are right. I should have said "could" in stead of "should".
There also is the http://directory.fsf.org/

> > Also, I have this bookmark that could be of any help (in the remote
> > case you didn't know about it) http://rubyvote.rubyforge.org/
>
> Looks good. But for Manta voting we have quite specialized needs
> (like peer-groups, differing voting-weights and storage of results
> in ActiveRecord), so it will be better and faster to do this from
> scratch.
>
> Editing pages will not yet be finished today. I'm sorry but there were
> some unforseen problems with the diffing. They are all resolved now,
> but this took a day. The linkless_textile= method works, but the link-
> list setter, and textile= method has not been tested yet.
>
> I will be away from the web for the weekend (a promise made weeks ago,
> to look after the house and the dogs of a friend of mine who lives
> on an island off the coast not far from here (where I once lived for
> half a year), and does not have an i-net connection fast enough to
> code at comfortable speed through an ssh connection). I will use that
> time to do some reading I still need to do for a few courses.
>
> Maybe I will be doing a small commit in an hour or so, but it won't
> be as big as page-editing yet.
>
> I'll be back on Monday morning.
>
> Have a nice weekend all,
>
> Wybo
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> _______________________________________________
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>

List! enjoy your weekend!

-- 
Bruno

Hi,

 There is a problem in the  the <=>-operator of link

self.link_parts[i] <=> other.link_parts[i]

 There is no link_parts method in it. I think maybe 
it's for getting every link_part of the link by the method.
 I tried to finish it. And I noticed that there are three 
kinds of, or directions for LinkPart: requested ,received and
 from. I'm a bit confused about this. And when sorting links,
should the kind of LinkPart affect the order?

BTW: I'm sorry for my English! :(

Jennifer



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> > No, the link-splitting happens server-side, that's why links like this
> > one are already split in the output (that will be input for RedCloth):
>
> Ok, so my code will stay as it is now.

It would be really neat if you added a wrapper function around the 
Javascript, so the following:

<span class="logilogi_link">
  <a href="#left_side">
    <span class="first_half_link" 
      title="This is the first half of the link">LogiLo</span><span class="second_half_link" 
      id="second_half_link"  
      title="this is the second half of the link"  
      >giLink
    </span>
  </a>
  <span class="logis_box" id="LogiLogiLink">
  </span>
</span>

Would become: 

<span class="logilogi_link">
  <a href="#left_side">
    onload-function that adds the stuff that fits in above like 
    dropDownLogiLink('LogiLo','giLink','en.logilogi.org/link/list/5','link16')
  </a>
  <span class="logis_box" id="link16">
    maybe the div here too
  </span>
</span>

The 3d argument is the place where the ajax-call should go to fill up
the drop-down span/div.

The 4rd argument, and 'link16' span-id refer to this link being the
16th link-cluster in the Logi currently being shown, as this will be 
always unique, while LogiLogiLink does not need to be (word could be
occurring twice with different links behind it....)

> > Actually first the idea was to only place it around the second part on
> > the server, and leave the first part as a normal link, but I really
> > like what you did with the background-colors, so we will keep it your
> > way.
>
> Ok, I'm glad you liked the two colors, I just got the concept from
> your top bar, which as I can see it, talks a lot about LogiLogi, and
> represents very well the nature of LogiLogi, as far as I understand.

It makes things clear indeed, and it looks good too. The border of the
drop-down & bg-color however might be changed to match the menu's, and
in the dropdown there will be links (with green background, like for
received in incoming links) and below those listings of logi's with 
their score and a white background (like for logi in incoming, but not 
with borders inbetween).

> About the links, RedCloth and the html, still have some questions,.
> 
> I'm not understanding the process between the text I enter in the edit
> mode and the output, and if we make some things clearer it will help
> me to understand better what you and Miguel are trying to do.
> For what I understand, this are the steps:
>   * I enter some text in the edit mode "Hello LogiLogi!" but I want to
> make "LogiLogi" a logilogilink, so this would be the final text I
> enter:
> 
> Hello "Logi(botanics/george_bush)":do:logi/view/botanics/george_bush;"Logi":do:link/list/1;!

No, happily enough not, that would be horrible.

You will enter:

Hello "LogiLogi":botanics/george_bush;!

>   * The next step, is RedCloth, which understands that LogiLogi is a
> "dual" link and executes the "do:" parts of both halves of the link.

The next step is the textile= method of LogiVersion. That one will
filter out the links (without relation to RedCloth), and store them 
in the db.

Then on viewing (for editing they will come back out as they came in) 
links are parsed back in as dual, like what you started with above:

Hello "Logi(botanics/george_bush)":do:logi/view/botanics/george_bush;"Logi":do:link/list/1;!

> The first "do:" of the link is telling RedCloth to create a link to
> "botanics/george_bush". The second part will make the "list". (what is
> the "1" for in "link/list/1"?)

No the second part tells it to create the link for the AJAX-call.
Actually RedCloth will have to parse the dual links as one match, 
because otherwise it would not be possible to add the javascript-
code around both parts.

The "do:"-part tells it to feed the other parts into the rails 
link_to method to get the link.

>   * Then the next step would be a "view" output, where RedCloth would
> parse the link template I've made and insert the variables, like this:
> 
> <a href="logi/view/botanics/george_bush">
> <span class="first_half_link" >Logi</span>
> <span class="second_half_link">Logi</span>
> </a>
> <span class="logis_box">
> <ul>
> <li>
> <a href="botanics/definitions/Bush">Bush (botanics)</a> score: 0.62
> </li>
> <li>
> <a href="people/presidents/george_bush">George W. Bush (president)</a>
> score: 0.52
> </li>
> </ul>
> </span>

Not quite, the span will not be filled up yet with the scores. That
only happens through AJAX when the user clicks the second part of the
link (otherwise it would be quite database-intensive).

Note that Rails has beautifull functions for calling through AJAX (like 
link_to_remote), so you don't need to re-invent the wheel on this,
although we cannot use it right-away because it combines link-generation 
and adding the Javascript for the AJAX-call.

> I'm pasting this code here to make it clear.
> Could you explain this shortly how is it in a grafical way?

I hope I made it a bit less unclear...

> By the way, today I was going through the trunk and saw the doc/LICENCE.TXT
> Using GPLv3_draft from the beggining is a very smart move and I
> believe it should have value, dough it could have bugs, so that's the
> danger of Beta testings... ;)

I think that in this case GPL v2 has more "bugs" for web-use, 
because it does not allow extra clauses that also consider running 
it on a webserver to be spreading it, and thus requiring one to
release the sourcecode. Also I appended the Afferro-GPL at the
bottom, which is GPL v2 + simmilar clauses sanctioned by the FSF.

> After released you could use GPL plain and that would mean the 
> latest version.

I would rather not have the code under GPL v2 or later, because that 
would mean people can choose version 2, and thus create a closed
version of LogiLogi that they simply share with no-one, but just run
on their servers. 

Also the GPL v3 will come out in it's final version soon, maybe even
just before Manta goes live.

> Also, Manta should be in the Savanna as a GNU project when it's
> released. Don't you think? I could work on that too if you think so,
> but with time.

I don't think it is necessary because we are already on both
Sourceforge and RubyForge, which offer simmilar services.

Of course we might move there simply because GNU is closer to the core
of Free Software, or because their services are better, but as far as
I can find it they don't provide Subversion at the moment.

> Also, I have this bookmark that could be of any help (in the remote
> case you didn't know about it) http://rubyvote.rubyforge.org/

Looks good. But for Manta voting we have quite specialized needs
(like peer-groups, differing voting-weights and storage of results 
in ActiveRecord), so it will be better and faster to do this from 
scratch.

Editing pages will not yet be finished today. I'm sorry but there were
some unforseen problems with the diffing. They are all resolved now,
but this took a day. The linkless_textile= method works, but the link-
list setter, and textile= method has not been tested yet.

I will be away from the web for the weekend (a promise made weeks ago,
to look after the house and the dogs of a friend of mine who lives
on an island off the coast not far from here (where I once lived for 
half a year), and does not have an i-net connection fast enough to 
code at comfortable speed through an ssh connection). I will use that 
time to do some reading I still need to do for a few courses.

Maybe I will be doing a small commit in an hour or so, but it won't 
be as big as page-editing yet.

I'll be back on Monday morning. 

Have a nice weekend all,

Wybo