logilogi-list Mailing List for LogiLogi - Software Libre for the Web (Page 44)

I've just completed the back-end-part of the voting-system.

I will now be working on the parts of the back-end that keep the system 
in a sensible state when users, documents, peer-groups and such, are 
deleted, and I'll be reviewing it in general over the coming days...

After that I'll start working with you on the UI, probably starting
off with the RedCloth parser...

Wybo

> Lists are great!

Thanks :)

> > Bruno I really appreciate your work, and I understand that you are
> > busey right now, and tempted by summer... so take your time.
>
> Thanks for the recognition and for understanding. I would really like
> to put more time in the project but things were not planned thinking
> in this project this year! next year LogiLogi will have it's place and
> hope to contribute lots more :)

Good intentions for the New Year ;) !

> I will find the time to do the commits though.

Great! I'm really anxious to see the integration so we can see it get 
to life!

> > I will now start working on the voting-system.
> 
> Take a look at this tests I've made some time ago.
> http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui.html
> 
> Mouse over the Edit and History, also click the logi-half of the link
> and take a look at the voting thumbs copied from the Aroundme voting
> system :)

I'm a bit sorry, but the voting with the thumbs behind the links,
although it looks nice, is a bit problematic. First of all voting
is on documents, not on links, and I hope people vote after they've 
at least read one, so voting next to links is not as I'd like it.

Besides this voting is a bit more granular than good versus bad.
Voting is in a range of -2 to 8, and with a weight (defaults to 1,
the better your own writings are rated the more voting-weight you
get to spend)...

Also the view history link should take one to a diff-page, just like
already present in the current version of LogiLogi. However this drop-
down would be great if shown on mouse-over of the =v1 in the received
url-bar on http://www.logilogi.org:3000/

The languages-dropdown similarily would be good below the @en.

Wybo

On 12/21/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> I added 3 more lists + their tests and partials:
>
Lists are great!

> http://en.logilogi.org:3000/do/logi/ajax_dropdown_link_list/100,101/LogiLogi
> http://en.logilogi.org:3000/do/logi/ajax_incoming_links_for_requested/LogiLogi
> http://en.logilogi.org:3000/do/logi/ajax_incoming_links_for_received/LogiLogi
>
> Also I added the logic that makes sure that the matches for links are
> updated if new logi's are created, or old ones are tagged with new/extra
> tags.
>
This is getting really nicee!!!
it's really great to see logilogi delivering information! You are getting to it!

> Bruno I really appreciate your work, and I understand that you are
> busey right now, and tempted by summer... so take your time.
>
Thanks for the recognition and for understanding. I would really like
to put more time in the project but things were not planned thinking
in this project this year! next year LogiLogi will have it's place and
hope to contribute lots more :)

I will find the time to do the commits though.

> I will now start working on the voting-system.
>

Take a look at this tests I've made some time ago.
http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui.html

Mouse over the Edit and History, also click the logi-half of the link
and take a look at the voting thumbs copied from the Aroundme voting
system :)

> Wybo
>

Later,

-- 
Bruno

I added 3 more lists + their tests and partials:

http://en.logilogi.org:3000/do/logi/ajax_dropdown_link_list/100,101/LogiLogi
http://en.logilogi.org:3000/do/logi/ajax_incoming_links_for_requested/LogiLogi
http://en.logilogi.org:3000/do/logi/ajax_incoming_links_for_received/LogiLogi

Also I added the logic that makes sure that the matches for links are
updated if new logi's are created, or old ones are tagged with new/extra 
tags.

Bruno I really appreciate your work, and I understand that you are
busey right now, and tempted by summer... so take your time.

I will now start working on the voting-system.

Wybo

Forgot to mention yesterday:

Due to the changes a redo_dev_db is needed, and I also fixed 
the mysterious prettyprint-error (was caused by directly 
comparing links). So no (known) bugs again.

Wybo

I've just committed my changes, which are again quite a few extensions 
and modifications of the back-end, and - yes - the first lists.

I have not yet integrated them into the UI, in order not to interfere
with your work. I did look further into the files you put online here:
http://overbits.com/logilogi_new_layout/ (some seemed still the old 
ones), but regardless of that I think it really will give you a feeling 
of empowerment to have committed something yourself.

You can preview a few of the lists here already as they are to be
called from AJAX:
http://en.logilogi.org:3000/go/logi/ajax_branches/LogiLogi
http://en.logilogi.org:3000/go/logi/ajax_incoming_links_to_logi/LogiLogi
http://en.logilogi.org:3000/go/logi/ajax_alternatives/LogiLogi
http://en.logilogi.org:3000/go/logi/ajax_contenders/LogiLogi
(still very basic, I'll add string-truncation to a max width, and more 
data soon. Probably the menu's also will need to become a bit wider 
later on...)

Tomorrow and the day after I will be out of town to work for the
commission again. I regret that somewat, but I'm happy with what we've
accomplished the last few days.

I hope you dare to take the step of making the commit. About the version 
as it is now on overbits: the page-width issue is not really grave, as 
it will not occur under normal circumstances, but the url-bar and some 
other bits still need some love.

Wybo Wiersma

Great that you've been working on it!

I've been away this evening (time-difference) and I worked on the
lists all day. I just left before your first e-mail came in.

> wow, I took me all day.
> 
> I got something running with the new layout over here
> http://overbits.com:3000/LogiLogi
> 
> It is almost finished. I found most of the files needed.

Looks like like it will be good, although some things are quite
mangled still, like what you say, under construction.

> I got some problem with the app/helpers/logi_helper.rb. I don't
> understand why this is not possible ' <span
> class="slash_separator">/</span></li>' at line 26

That could be possible, I think. What is important however is that the
link-parts remain aligned, so that the received bit of each link is
exactly below the requested bit (eventhough the received bit will often
be longer, due to the senses being resolved and such). I wonder how you 
do that with the list, but if possible the span around the separator is 
no problem.

(like in http://www.logilogi.org:3000/botanics/bush)

> I've put the modified files in a public folder, excuse not working
> fully with svn but I still don't feel confident and couldn't make a
> quick patch. Here is the url:
> 
> http://overbits.com/logilogi_new_layout/

Ok. SVN really is not hard. If you are finished, it's just a matter of
running 'svn commit' inside the trunk directory. Then you will have to
type a message and specify your sourceforge-password, and then it will 
all go automatically...

> The css can be taken from the running version at overbits.
> 
> have to go now,

Ok.

I go to bed now (3:20 am).

Wybo

> later.
> 
> -- 
> Bruno

wow, I took me all day.

I got something running with the new layout over here
http://overbits.com:3000/LogiLogi

It is almost finished. I found most of the files needed.

I got some problem with the app/helpers/logi_helper.rb. I don't
understand why this is not possible ' <span
class="slash_separator">/</span></li>' at line 26

I've put the modified files in a public folder, excuse not working
fully with svn but I still don't feel confident and couldn't make a
quick patch. Here is the url:

http://overbits.com/logilogi_new_layout/

The css can be taken from the running version at overbits.

have to go now,

later.

-- 
Bruno

On 12/15/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> Finally a commit again. It took much too long, but regardless of
> several hurdles (among which on and a half day of ilness) it's there,
> the database-based configuration, and the new functions needed in
> Link, to allow menu's (tagged as /some_page/some_other/menu) to act
> as page-Elements.
>
> The database-based configuration was needed to allow one to have
> concepts (like GlobalConfig.home_concept) as a configuration-
> value in a neat way (and it's also good for scaling LogiLogi across
> different servers using the same DB, but that's not the primary
> reason...)
>
> I've also made sure that logi-links (links with a =i<number>) can be
> used as permalinks now. So if a logi is no longer tagged with a
> certain concept (some_concept,s1=i10) it will be automatically
> resolved to a concept that it is still tagged with (some_other,s1=i10).
>
> Besides this I also added the functionality to Tagging to allow
> one to simply create a new peer- or user-group by creating a logi
> that's tagged with a new concept and that's also tagged with
> peer_group,s1, or user_group,s1. This logi then also will function
> as the (first) home-page for the peer-/user-group.
>
> There is not much of a change yet to see at the front-end. But that
> will change over the course of this weekend. I will be creating the
> content for the link-drop-down, and the incoming links, context, and
> such.
>
> Bruno I hope you want to integrate the new UI ? That way we can work
> in parallel, and do more in less time...
>
> After getting the new version through SVN, you should run
> rake redo_dev_db.
>
> Note that testing became quite a bit slower due to having to re-
> instantiate the configuration-settings for each test (the
> prettyprint-error is also still there)...
>
> Wybo
>

Wybo,

It's great to know you committed those changes and that the back-end
is getting straight, can't wait to see it through the front-end! ;)

About the layout, I know I have to get to it, but it has just been
impossible, really, and I know I didn't got the time I thought I would
this month.

I'll integrate the new layout to the SVN files In during the weekend.

Greetings!

-- 
Bruno

Finally a commit again. It took much too long, but regardless of
several hurdles (among which on and a half day of ilness) it's there,
the database-based configuration, and the new functions needed in
Link, to allow menu's (tagged as /some_page/some_other/menu) to act 
as page-Elements.

The database-based configuration was needed to allow one to have 
concepts (like GlobalConfig.home_concept) as a configuration-
value in a neat way (and it's also good for scaling LogiLogi across
different servers using the same DB, but that's not the primary
reason...)

I've also made sure that logi-links (links with a =i<number>) can be
used as permalinks now. So if a logi is no longer tagged with a
certain concept (some_concept,s1=i10) it will be automatically
resolved to a concept that it is still tagged with (some_other,s1=i10).

Besides this I also added the functionality to Tagging to allow
one to simply create a new peer- or user-group by creating a logi
that's tagged with a new concept and that's also tagged with
peer_group,s1, or user_group,s1. This logi then also will function
as the (first) home-page for the peer-/user-group.

There is not much of a change yet to see at the front-end. But that
will change over the course of this weekend. I will be creating the
content for the link-drop-down, and the incoming links, context, and 
such.

Bruno I hope you want to integrate the new UI ? That way we can work 
in parallel, and do more in less time...

After getting the new version through SVN, you should run 
rake redo_dev_db.

Note that testing became quite a bit slower due to having to re-
instantiate the configuration-settings for each test (the
prettyprint-error is also still there)...

Wybo

> > These work beautifully now!
> >
> > Would it be possible also to automatically close the link-drop-down after
> > the mouse leaves the drop-down-div ?
> >
> 
> There are two possibilities:
> * on_mouse_over / mouse_out
> * on_click / on_click_anyware_else_outside
> 
> The easy way should be mouse_over/out but Miguel knows about this.

Mouse-over I think is the most beautifull solution, although it could
become quite system-intensive. So if on_click / mouse_out is not
possible, I think we should go for on_click / on_click_outside + the
close-link we have now.

> > >  * Page-width - I believe you are talking about the body width, as I
> > > see the old LogiLogi has a fixed width. I don't think this is the best
> > > idea as it wont be fluid, but we could try to make it not fixed but
> > > proportional to the width of the screen, so if you have a big screen
> > > the body wont get lost in the middle with lots of white space on the
> > > sides...
> >
> > I have mixed feelings about this. As it is well known that pages that are
> > less wide are easier to read... So there is something to say for both
> > approaches...
> 
> Ok, The best should be some kind of multiple columns layout depending
> on screen size! that would be great. Anyway, it would be nice to make
> some kind of max-width, but I'll have to search for browser
> compatibility...

I think that will be too funky to be priority for now.

> Do you prefere it to be fixed size? like the old one? It's a second.

That's ok. Fixed, and down-sizing if the screen is smaller.

> > >  * Menu-width - I'll get the menues back as they were, it's just a second.
> >
> > Ok.
> >
> > About the new version 1; The side-borders probably are a design-choice ?
> > I think I need some time to get used to them. Maybe if they became
> > symmetric (having them for page-elements & menu on the right side) could
> > be nice too.
> 
> Ok, This where tries. I also asked myself whether the "incoming links"
> list items would be nested lists. Also what would the context be, more

The incoming links will be nested lists.

> kind of keyword/tag clouds...

Context will be indeed tag-clouds in nested-list form (with all logi's
that share all thags with the current location under their primary tag).

> > About my own work: I'm a bit entangled at the moment in upgrading the
> > configuration-system (for storing settings in the database) and also
> > adding minor upgrades to the link-system in order to be able to
> > beautifully handle page-elements. I hope to be able to make a commit
> > later tomorrow, but it could become some time after that.
> 
> Where do page-elements come from? are they standard or just tags
> asigned to text sections?

They are separate logi's, tagged with an element-tag as their primary
tag. Just about working on that now.

So if you create a page at some_page/menu, it will be included as the
left menu when visiting the some_page.

> > The new layout can be integrated really soon now.
> 
> Please guide me with wich files to modify and I'll do it if you
> prefere, if not go ahead and please modify it coping my html.

Would be great if you could do it, as I am still facing quite a bit of
work for getting the config- and element-stuff done.

The main file is at app/views/layouts/main.rhtml, css at
public/stylesheets. Other, more arcane parts are in app/views/logi.

The url-bar is somewhere else, but I'll do that one as it is quite
mixed with ruby.

> > What, in your view, would be the best place on the page to show the
> > ratings (from the different peer-groups), and the rating-UI ?
> 
> I'll think about this. I'll have to read again the Docs... any
> guidance will be much appreciate about what would be available
> information for the page, logis, peer groups, etc, related to a
> certain article.

An article is a logi.

Logis can be voted on by peer_groups. This should be possible
somewhere on the page. I was thinking about above the blocks on the
right.

Besides this it has a creation- and last-edit-time. A creator, and
many editors. And more.

> I'm not sure if it's the right approach, but I believe that if we
> guide the user with popovers (display box/globe on mouseover) on
> links, words/concepts, images, user names, etc, etc, and the user can
> at some point customize (in quick preferences for example) which level
> of information he wants to be displayed.

Would be cool. Seems not too complicated too.

> Is there a rating for every item of the boxes in the page? (incoming
> links, contexts, page elements)

Only logi's can be rated. So everything that is a logi can (elements +
the page itself). But it's ok if elements can only rated if visiting
them as a page (at some_page/menu, instead of as the menu shown left
to some_page).

> I'd really like to re-think about the entire UI once Manta is up and
> running and the information starts to flow.

That'd be possible, but I agree that for now it's faster to stick with 
the current design.

As you see I didn't make it to commit tonight. Tomorrow I'll be away
all day doing work as a member of a commission that is responsible for 
checking the quality of other universities, so it'll have to wait ('ll 
probably be on wednesday or thursday).

But our Manta is going to be great!,

Wybo

On 12/9/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > Wybo,
> >
> > please take a look at http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_1.html as
> > there are some improvements.
>
> Beautifull!! Amazing, it all works perfectly!
>
> > > Ok. I had a look at: http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_2.html, is
> > > that the latest version you are working on ? The width of the document
> > > is ok, but the rest of it still looks a bit mangled (and the 3-column
> > > stuff also seems broken again). Probably you are just in the middle of
> > > updating it ?
> >
> > I don't know if it was me that sent you the wrong url or you got mixed
> > up, but the las one I've been working on (although not last version
> > number) is http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_1.html
>
> I was exploring a bit, and ended up at 2, wrongly assuming it could be a
> newer version...
>
> >  * Colums - Working. Also, I didn't specify a width to the side
> > columns, but I'll try to go for the % aproach in my next try.
>
> These work beautifully now!
>
> Would it be possible also to automatically close the link-drop-down after
> the mouse leaves the drop-down-div ?
>

There are two possibilities:
* on_mouse_over / mouse_out
* on_click / on_click_anyware_else_outside

The easy way should be mouse_over/out but Miguel knows about this.

> >  * Page-width - I believe you are talking about the body width, as I
> > see the old LogiLogi has a fixed width. I don't think this is the best
> > idea as it wont be fluid, but we could try to make it not fixed but
> > proportional to the width of the screen, so if you have a big screen
> > the body wont get lost in the middle with lots of white space on the
> > sides...
>
> I have mixed feelings about this. As it is well known that pages that are
> less wide are easier to read... So there is something to say for both
> approaches...
>
Ok, The best should be some kind of multiple columns layout depending
on screen size! that would be great. Anyway, it would be nice to make
some kind of max-width, but I'll have to search for browser
compatibility...

Do you prefere it to be fixed size? like the old one? It's a second.

> >  * Menu-width - I'll get the menues back as they were, it's just a second.
>
> Ok.
>
> About the new version 1; The side-borders probably are a design-choice ?
> I think I need some time to get used to them. Maybe if they became
> symmetric (having them for page-elements & menu on the right side) could
> be nice too.
>
Ok, This where tries. I also asked myself whether the "incoming links"
list items would be nested lists. Also what would the context be, more
kind of keyword/tag clouds...

> About my own work: I'm a bit entangled at the moment in upgrading the
> configuration-system (for storing settings in the database) and also
> adding minor upgrades to the link-system in order to be able to
> beautifully handle page-elements. I hope to be able to make a commit
> later tomorrow, but it could become some time after that.
>
Where do page-elements come from? are they standard or just tags
asigned to text sections?

> The new layout can be integrated really soon now.
>
Please guide me with wich files to modify and I'll do it if you
prefere, if not go ahead and please modify it coping my html.

> What, in your view, would be the best place on the page to show the
> ratings (from the different peer-groups), and the rating-UI ?
>
I'll think about this. I'll have to read again the Docs... any
guidance will be much appreciate about what would be available
information for the page, logis, peer groups, etc, related to a
certain article.

I'm not sure if it's the right approach, but I believe that if we
guide the user with popovers (display box/globe on mouseover) on
links, words/concepts, images, user names, etc, etc, and the user can
at some point customize (in quick preferences for example) which level
of information he wants to be displayed.

Is there a rating for every item of the boxes in the page? (incoming
links, contexts, page elements)

I'd really like to re-think about the entire UI once Manta is up and
running and the information starts to flow.

> Great work!,
>
Thanks!

> Wybo
>

Also, take a look at the 0.7 demo
http://www.barnraiser.org/demos/aroundme_0_7_0/aroundme
User: de...@ba...
pass: demo4me

It's a really nice work, they have a really great social concepts as I
see it. Also have rating sistem from "respected network" as would be
peers in logilogi,

Have to go. I'll have little time till Tuesday, but I can colect
information and solve doubts mainwhile.

Later.

-- 
Bruno

> Wybo,
> 
> please take a look at http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_1.html as
> there are some improvements.

Beautifull!! Amazing, it all works perfectly!

> > Ok. I had a look at: http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_2.html, is
> > that the latest version you are working on ? The width of the document
> > is ok, but the rest of it still looks a bit mangled (and the 3-column
> > stuff also seems broken again). Probably you are just in the middle of
> > updating it ?
> 
> I don't know if it was me that sent you the wrong url or you got mixed
> up, but the las one I've been working on (although not last version
> number) is http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_1.html

I was exploring a bit, and ended up at 2, wrongly assuming it could be a 
newer version...

>  * Colums - Working. Also, I didn't specify a width to the side
> columns, but I'll try to go for the % aproach in my next try.

These work beautifully now!

Would it be possible also to automatically close the link-drop-down after
the mouse leaves the drop-down-div ?

>  * Page-width - I believe you are talking about the body width, as I
> see the old LogiLogi has a fixed width. I don't think this is the best
> idea as it wont be fluid, but we could try to make it not fixed but
> proportional to the width of the screen, so if you have a big screen
> the body wont get lost in the middle with lots of white space on the
> sides...

I have mixed feelings about this. As it is well known that pages that are 
less wide are easier to read... So there is something to say for both 
approaches...

>  * Menu-width - I'll get the menues back as they were, it's just a second.

Ok.

About the new version 1; The side-borders probably are a design-choice ? 
I think I need some time to get used to them. Maybe if they became 
symmetric (having them for page-elements & menu on the right side) could 
be nice too.

About my own work: I'm a bit entangled at the moment in upgrading the 
configuration-system (for storing settings in the database) and also 
adding minor upgrades to the link-system in order to be able to 
beautifully handle page-elements. I hope to be able to make a commit 
later tomorrow, but it could become some time after that.

The new layout can be integrated really soon now.

What, in your view, would be the best place on the page to show the 
ratings (from the different peer-groups), and the rating-UI ?

Great work!,

Wybo

Wybo,

please take a look at http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_1.html as
there are some improvements.

On 12/8/06, Bruno Sarlo <bs...@gm...> wrote:
> On 12/8/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > > Hey! I'm back!
> >
> > Great!
> >
> > > > Miguel, how was your wedding ?
> > > >
> > > > Should be quite a beautifull feeling, to be married.
> > > >
> > > > And Bruno how was it to be at his wedding ?
> > >
> > > The wedding was something really special, in the beach (close to the
> > > picture we send you) and it was all beautiful. I was one of the
> > > "testitos" (witness) of the wedding too! so it was really exiting.
> >
> > Beautifull, a wedding on the beach.
> >
> > > We had a really good time and chilled out for a while. Now I'm back to
> > > work (not miguel obviously) and I'm really busy, I hope I can get some
> > > time in a week or so. I could help with little things dough.
> >
> > Where did Miguel go on honymoon ?
> >
> They stayed over there, in La Paloma, where the wedding was.
>
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > > About the project, I am currently working on the back-end, creating
> > > > the system for resolving the page-elements, and also making a start
> > > > with the voting system, and the output for the drop-down-menu's, and
> > > > the link-and-logi-list (that will be the content of the 2nd link-part
> > > > drop down you created, Bruno).
> > >
> > > Ok, that's great! As I told you before, I'll be working and busy, but
> > > I'll be all day in front of the PC, so if we work in an agile way we
> > > will be able to get through the design issues with no problem in real
> > > time I believe.
> >
> > Ok. I had a look at: http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_2.html, is
> > that the latest version you are working on ? The width of the document
> > is ok, but the rest of it still looks a bit mangled (and the 3-column
> > stuff also seems broken again). Probably you are just in the middle of
> > updating it ?
> >
>
> I don't know if it was me that sent you the wrong url or you got mixed
> up, but the las one I've been working on (although not last version
> number) is http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_1.html
>
> > I would be delighted to see it working (colums, drop-down, bars,
> > page- & menu-width), so it can be integrated, and we can show the pre-
> > pre-Alpha of Manta to a wider audience... So if you find some time,
> > this would be first priority.
> >
>
>  * Colums - Working. Also, I didn't specify a width to the side
> columns, but I'll try to go for the % aproach in my next try.
>  * Drop-down (my preferences?) - will work on it.
>  * Bars - the requested/received ones?
>  * Page-width - I believe you are talking about the body width, as I
> see the old LogiLogi has a fixed width. I don't think this is the best
> idea as it wont be fluid, but we could try to make it not fixed but
> proportional to the width of the screen, so if you have a big screen
> the body wont get lost in the middle with lots of white space on the
> sides...
>  * Menu-width - I'll get the menues back as they were, it's just a second.
>
> > Wybo
> >
> > > > Wybo
> >
>
> I'll make myself sometime in the coming days.
>
> --
> Bruno
>


-- 
Bruno

On 12/8/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > Hey! I'm back!
>
> Great!
>
> > > Miguel, how was your wedding ?
> > >
> > > Should be quite a beautifull feeling, to be married.
> > >
> > > And Bruno how was it to be at his wedding ?
> >
> > The wedding was something really special, in the beach (close to the
> > picture we send you) and it was all beautiful. I was one of the
> > "testitos" (witness) of the wedding too! so it was really exiting.
>
> Beautifull, a wedding on the beach.
>
> > We had a really good time and chilled out for a while. Now I'm back to
> > work (not miguel obviously) and I'm really busy, I hope I can get some
> > time in a week or so. I could help with little things dough.
>
> Where did Miguel go on honymoon ?
>
They stayed over there, in La Paloma, where the wedding was.

> > > ---
> > >
> > > About the project, I am currently working on the back-end, creating
> > > the system for resolving the page-elements, and also making a start
> > > with the voting system, and the output for the drop-down-menu's, and
> > > the link-and-logi-list (that will be the content of the 2nd link-part
> > > drop down you created, Bruno).
> >
> > Ok, that's great! As I told you before, I'll be working and busy, but
> > I'll be all day in front of the PC, so if we work in an agile way we
> > will be able to get through the design issues with no problem in real
> > time I believe.
>
> Ok. I had a look at: http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_2.html, is
> that the latest version you are working on ? The width of the document
> is ok, but the rest of it still looks a bit mangled (and the 3-column
> stuff also seems broken again). Probably you are just in the middle of
> updating it ?
>

I don't know if it was me that sent you the wrong url or you got mixed
up, but the las one I've been working on (although not last version
number) is http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_1.html

> I would be delighted to see it working (colums, drop-down, bars,
> page- & menu-width), so it can be integrated, and we can show the pre-
> pre-Alpha of Manta to a wider audience... So if you find some time,
> this would be first priority.
>

 * Colums - Working. Also, I didn't specify a width to the side
columns, but I'll try to go for the % aproach in my next try.
 * Drop-down (my preferences?) - will work on it.
 * Bars - the requested/received ones?
 * Page-width - I believe you are talking about the body width, as I
see the old LogiLogi has a fixed width. I don't think this is the best
idea as it wont be fluid, but we could try to make it not fixed but
proportional to the width of the screen, so if you have a big screen
the body wont get lost in the middle with lots of white space on the
sides...
 * Menu-width - I'll get the menues back as they were, it's just a second.

> Wybo
>
> > > Wybo
>

I'll make myself sometime in the coming days.

-- 
Bruno

> Hey! I'm back!

Great!

> > Miguel, how was your wedding ?
> >
> > Should be quite a beautifull feeling, to be married.
> >
> > And Bruno how was it to be at his wedding ?
> 
> The wedding was something really special, in the beach (close to the
> picture we send you) and it was all beautiful. I was one of the
> "testitos" (witness) of the wedding too! so it was really exiting.

Beautifull, a wedding on the beach.

> We had a really good time and chilled out for a while. Now I'm back to
> work (not miguel obviously) and I'm really busy, I hope I can get some
> time in a week or so. I could help with little things dough.

Where did Miguel go on honymoon ?

> > ---
> >
> > About the project, I am currently working on the back-end, creating
> > the system for resolving the page-elements, and also making a start
> > with the voting system, and the output for the drop-down-menu's, and
> > the link-and-logi-list (that will be the content of the 2nd link-part
> > drop down you created, Bruno).
> 
> Ok, that's great! As I told you before, I'll be working and busy, but
> I'll be all day in front of the PC, so if we work in an agile way we
> will be able to get through the design issues with no problem in real
> time I believe.

Ok. I had a look at: http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_2.html, is
that the latest version you are working on ? The width of the document
is ok, but the rest of it still looks a bit mangled (and the 3-column
stuff also seems broken again). Probably you are just in the middle of 
updating it ?

I would be delighted to see it working (colums, drop-down, bars, 
page- & menu-width), so it can be integrated, and we can show the pre-
pre-Alpha of Manta to a wider audience... So if you find some time, 
this would be first priority.

Wybo

> > Wybo

Hey! I'm back!

On 12/7/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> Miguel, how was your wedding ?
>
> Should be quite a beautifull feeling, to be married.
>
> And Bruno how was it to be at his wedding ?
>

The wedding was something really special, in the beach (close to the
picture we send you) and it was all beautiful. I was one of the
"testitos" (witness) of the wedding too! so it was really exiting.

We had a really good time and chilled out for a while. Now I'm back to
work (not miguel obviously) and I'm really busy, I hope I can get some
time in a week or so. I could help with little things dough.

> ---
>
> About the project, I am currently working on the back-end, creating
> the system for resolving the page-elements, and also making a start
> with the voting system, and the output for the drop-down-menu's, and
> the link-and-logi-list (that will be the content of the 2nd link-part
> drop down you created, Bruno).
>

Ok, that's great! As I told you before, I'll be working and busy, but
I'll be all day in front of the PC, so if we work in an agile way we
will be able to get through the design issues with no problem in real
time I believe.

> Wybo

It's nice to be back in touch with the LogiLogi project.

Thanks again man!

Later.

-- 
Bruno

Miguel, how was your wedding ?

Should be quite a beautifull feeling, to be married.

And Bruno how was it to be at his wedding ?

---

About the project, I am currently working on the back-end, creating
the system for resolving the page-elements, and also making a start 
with the voting system, and the output for the drop-down-menu's, and
the link-and-logi-list (that will be the content of the 2nd link-part
drop down you created, Bruno).

Wybo

> Wybo,
> 
> Couldn't finish the reply to the previous mail and this is just a very
> quick one. I'm leaving to La Paloma to Miguel's weading on Saturday!
> party time!

Great, Miguel, Congratulations with your wedding from me!

> > The layout is still the old one, and the Edit/View/etc. links above
> > and below the articles are still messy. I will improve that if Bruno
> > has integrated his marvellous work on the layout (or told me that he'd
> > rather have me to integrate it ;-)
>
> I'll be back in 5 days or so. If you'd like to, yo can copy the new
> layouts from http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_1.html or at least
> what's working right now.. go ahead.

I'll be working a bit more on the backend this week. If you consider
the new layout to be stable in it's core structure (also maybe fix 
the limit to the text-body width, menu-width, prefs_bar, and so on), 
I'll integrate it.

Wybo

PS: The server was down yesterday, but it's all up and running again.

Wybo,

Couldn't finish the reply to the previous mail and this is just a very
quick one. I'm leaving to La Paloma to Miguel's weading on Saturday!
party time!

I also tested the edit and also the "create new" and messed arround
with the LogiLogi page and now it's on V3 and the versions work and
it's great to see your commitments!

On 12/1/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> I added page-editing and page-creation. So from now on it is possible
> to edit, and create new pages, see the demo at:
> http://www.logilogi.org:3000/
>
> (though, don't add anything important to pages yet, as the development-
> db will be re-created on each update).
>
> The layout is still the old one, and the Edit/View/etc. links above
> and below the articles are still messy. I will improve that if Bruno
> has integrated his marvellous work on the layout (or told me that he'd
> rather have me to integrate it ;-)
>
I'll be back in 5 days or so. If you'd like to, yo can copy the new
layouts from http://overbits.com:3000/index_new_gui_1.html or at least
what's working right now.. go ahead.

> Also I made some minor changes to the db-scheme, before you encounter
> errors, please run rake redo_dev_db.
>
> Also note that there is one strange error I get that seems ruby-
> related, as the logi_version_test fails on some Ruby prettyprint file
> if run together with all tests, while it succeeds if ran on it's own.
> I get it on two different machines. If anyone has an idea ?
>
> I'll be away for the weekend again. But I'll be back on monday.
>
> Wybo
>
> PS: note that our server is moved to a different rack by our
> colocator somewhere in the coming days, so some down-time is
> expected...
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> LogiLogi-list mailing list
> Log...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>

Have a nice weekend man!

-- 
Bruno

I added page-editing and page-creation. So from now on it is possible
to edit, and create new pages, see the demo at:
http://www.logilogi.org:3000/

(though, don't add anything important to pages yet, as the development-
db will be re-created on each update).

The layout is still the old one, and the Edit/View/etc. links above
and below the articles are still messy. I will improve that if Bruno
has integrated his marvellous work on the layout (or told me that he'd 
rather have me to integrate it ;-)

Also I made some minor changes to the db-scheme, before you encounter
errors, please run rake redo_dev_db.

Also note that there is one strange error I get that seems ruby-
related, as the logi_version_test fails on some Ruby prettyprint file
if run together with all tests, while it succeeds if ran on it's own.
I get it on two different machines. If anyone has an idea ?

I'll be away for the weekend again. But I'll be back on monday.

Wybo

PS: note that our server is moved to a different rack by our 
colocator somewhere in the coming days, so some down-time is 
expected...

I am back from London now. It was greatly interesting, and a lot of
people got to know LogiLogi through my visit.

> > that if a different profile is selected, the page will be reloaded
> > with the settings from that profile.
> >
> > So a PrefsProfile is a bundle of settings, also see the PrefsProfile
> > class...
>
> Great! I just can't wait to try this!
> What is the difference between PrefsProfile and an "Identity", or a
> Peer group of 1 user that's only me? Aren't language, geographical

An User can set his preferences in a Prefs Profile. One of those
preferences is which peer-group to use for viewing, another what
user-group to use for editing, and yet another the default
language....

So it's a bundle of settings, while a peer-group is what determines
which pages you see, and the group from which you can vote, and earn
voting-power.

> location, age, gender, etc., different types of Peer groups? Maybe I'm
> being vague in my knowledge about LogiLogi, guide me please!

I hope the above explains something more...

> > Hai!, nested lists. Great idea, yes they can be nested lists...
>
> Ok, great! Then, there also are definition lists DL and ordered lists.

Ok. I knew those, but normal lists will do here, as long as they can
be nested and we can replace the contents of the 'root-cells' with
other lists...

> > But for now our first priority is the software itself, we will party
> > when it's party-time...
> >
> > Wybo
> >
> > > Tomorrow I'll make some changes and then maybe make some commitments.
> >
> > Great, looking forward to them!
>
> Didn't have time yet.

Happens.

I will be improving the page-editing today, allowing saving, saving of
links, and maybe also the creation of new Logis.

> Some links:
> AroundMe Social Software: http://www.barnraiser.org/projects.php

Interesting, we might try to apply. I will look into it.

> Smile: http://simile.mit.edu/timeline/ - great semantic behind
> timelines. Is BSD compatible with GPL? I think it is for what I
> understood.

Looks very good, especially for our more historical content. So after
Manta is up and running, integrating it with the timeline would be
cool... And yes, BSD is compatible with GPL, so we can use it (the
BSD-license allows more than the GPL-license, it's mainly missing a
copyleft provision).

Wybo

> -- 
> Bruno

On 11/27/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > > often, so they should be more near the center of the screen. Also note
> > > that the preferences-drop-down-menu is meanth for switching prefs-
> > > profiles quickly, not for going to different places for setting your
> > > preferences.
> >
> > Ok, so what will this drop-down contain? Ajax navigation so to change
> > prefs withought leaving the page?
>
> It will be a standard html-drop-down list, that the user can use to
> select one of his PrefsProfiles. The only tricky bit there will be
> that if a different profile is selected, the page will be reloaded
> with the settings from that profile.
>
> So a PrefsProfile is a bundle of settings, also see the PrefsProfile
> class...
>
Great! I just can't wait to try this!
What is the difference between PrefsProfile and an "Identity", or a
Peer group of 1 user that's only me? Aren't language, geographical
location, age, gender, etc., different types of Peer groups? Maybe I'm
being vague in my knowledge about LogiLogi, guide me please!

> > > Also the login fields likely will be added to the prefs_bar (and a
> > > link to one's personal page & peergroup-page if logged in). So I think
> > > the original order was a bit better.
> >
> > I'll take it back to the original order, it's never bad to try
> > different things, even to re-affirm the previous ones ;)
>
> Indeed. I really like much of the things you try, but things like this
> one just need a bit more discussion, as we've done now...
>
I'll leave it as it was.

> > > A minor issue is that the nav_bar doesn't go all the way to the right
> > > side of the screen.
> >
> > Left?
>
> The grey background of it stopped after the items, so it didn't span
> the entire screen...
>
> > > Also the main menu will contain the contents of the best rated
> > > LogiLogi/element/main_menu logi, so that one can't be a list
> > > either.
> > >
> > > Only the elements menu can be a list.
> >
> > Could you give me an example of this unfoldable menues? I don't see
> > why they can't be list, nested lists?
>
> Hai!, nested lists. Great idea, yes they can be nested lists...
>
Ok, great! Then, there also are definition lists DL and ordered lists.

> > > were really enthausiastic. They even want to organize a LogiLogi-
> > > day on the 28th of January (if we're done by then) on which people
> > > will edit pages and discuss through LogiLogi. It would be great if
> > > we also organized such things in other places (I most likely will
> > > in Groningen) so it could become really global.
> >
> > Wow, you are doing a lot of things arround LogiLogi, I wish I was in
> > Europe now to go to those parties ;)
>
> Would be great indeed. Maybe one day we will be able to organize
> things comparable to the Wikimania...
>
> Anyway, don't expect the mayor of London to be opening LogiLogi day.
> It will be a group of a few hackers, and about 8 pc's in an artists-
> building in London. Now if I try the same in Groningen, and you two
> in your city, it would already be quite interesting...
>
> But for now our first priority is the software itself, we will party
> when it's party-time...
>
> Wybo
>
> > Tomorrow I'll make some changes and then maybe make some commitments.
>
> Great, looking forward to them!
>
Didn't have time yet.

> > --
> > Bruno
>

Some links:
AroundMe Social Software: http://www.barnraiser.org/projects.php
Smile: http://simile.mit.edu/timeline/ - great semantic behind
timelines. Is BSD compatible with GPL? I think it is for what I
understood.



-- 
Bruno

> > often, so they should be more near the center of the screen. Also note
> > that the preferences-drop-down-menu is meanth for switching prefs-
> > profiles quickly, not for going to different places for setting your
> > preferences.
>
> Ok, so what will this drop-down contain? Ajax navigation so to change
> prefs withought leaving the page?

It will be a standard html-drop-down list, that the user can use to
select one of his PrefsProfiles. The only tricky bit there will be
that if a different profile is selected, the page will be reloaded
with the settings from that profile.

So a PrefsProfile is a bundle of settings, also see the PrefsProfile
class...

> > Also the login fields likely will be added to the prefs_bar (and a
> > link to one's personal page & peergroup-page if logged in). So I think
> > the original order was a bit better.
> 
> I'll take it back to the original order, it's never bad to try
> different things, even to re-affirm the previous ones ;)

Indeed. I really like much of the things you try, but things like this
one just need a bit more discussion, as we've done now...

> > A minor issue is that the nav_bar doesn't go all the way to the right
> > side of the screen.
>
> Left?

The grey background of it stopped after the items, so it didn't span
the entire screen...

> > Also the main menu will contain the contents of the best rated
> > LogiLogi/element/main_menu logi, so that one can't be a list
> > either.
> >
> > Only the elements menu can be a list.
> 
> Could you give me an example of this unfoldable menues? I don't see
> why they can't be list, nested lists?

Hai!, nested lists. Great idea, yes they can be nested lists...

> > were really enthausiastic. They even want to organize a LogiLogi-
> > day on the 28th of January (if we're done by then) on which people
> > will edit pages and discuss through LogiLogi. It would be great if
> > we also organized such things in other places (I most likely will
> > in Groningen) so it could become really global.
>
> Wow, you are doing a lot of things arround LogiLogi, I wish I was in
> Europe now to go to those parties ;)

Would be great indeed. Maybe one day we will be able to organize
things comparable to the Wikimania...

Anyway, don't expect the mayor of London to be opening LogiLogi day.
It will be a group of a few hackers, and about 8 pc's in an artists-
building in London. Now if I try the same in Groningen, and you two
in your city, it would already be quite interesting...

But for now our first priority is the software itself, we will party 
when it's party-time...

Wybo

> Tomorrow I'll make some changes and then maybe make some commitments.

Great, looking forward to them!

> -- 
> Bruno

On 11/26/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:

> > I made some changes of layout to test how they worked, let me know
> > what you think:
> >  * changed the order of (nav_bar / url_bar / prefs_bar) TO (prefs_bar
> > / url_bar / nav_bar) Also this test doesn't center them. The first
> > problem I find is that the search box is lost up there and I don't
> > like it. Obviously going back to the old layout is easy.
>
> I had them in the previous order, because both the search-box and the
> preferences-drop-down menu are something one will probably use quite
> often, so they should be more near the center of the screen. Also note
> that the preferences-drop-down-menu is meanth for switching prefs-
> profiles quickly, not for going to different places for setting your
> preferences.
>
Ok, so what will this drop-down contain? Ajax navigation so to change
prefs withought leaving the page?

> Also the login fields likely will be added to the prefs_bar (and a
> link to one's personal page & peergroup-page if logged in). So I think
> the original order was a bit better.
>
I'll take it back to the original order, it's never bad to try
different things, even to re-affirm the previous ones ;)

> A minor issue is that the nav_bar doesn't go all the way to the right
> side of the screen.
>
Left?

> And about yes or no centering them, I guess that's a matter of taste
> and style, so we will try it now for a while your way.
>
> >  * also, I'm changing the menues to lists, and also changing the
> > previous "lines" to border of their UL or LI elements, but this is not
> > yet implemented.
>
> Note that the incoming-links, and context menu's will contain
> unfoldable sub-menu's. Clicking on contenders, will fill that div
> with the word contenders (link to close it again), and a list of
> contenders. So don't turn it entirely into a list.
>
> Also the main menu will contain the contents of the best rated
> LogiLogi/element/main_menu logi, so that one can't be a list
> either.
>
> Only the elements menu can be a list.
>
Could you give me an example of this unfoldable menues? I don't see
why they can't be list, nested lists?

> > This is just a test. I've tested it in FF2.0 and IE6.0 and IE5.5 and
> > if all went smoothly. I'd like to get feedback about other browsers
> > please.
>
> I don't have any other here, but except for IE7 I don't think for now
> we really need any other browsers supported (though it would be nice
> if they worked).
>
> > There are still lot's of things to work at, but I'm sending this in
> > order to get feedback.
>
> Hereby, great so far!
>
> I really hope we can show what we have so far to a wider audience
> somewhere in the coming week. Yesterday evening I was at a Linux-
> party here in London, and I showed Manta to some people, and they
> were really enthausiastic. They even want to organize a LogiLogi-
> day on the 28th of January (if we're done by then) on which people
> will edit pages and discuss through LogiLogi. It would be great if
> we also organized such things in other places (I most likely will
> in Groningen) so it could become really global.
>
Wow, you are doing a lot of things arround LogiLogi, I wish I was in
Europe now to go to those parties ;)

Tomorrow I'll make some changes and then maybe make some commitments.

-- 
Bruno