logilogi-list Mailing List for LogiLogi - Software Libre for the Web (Page 42)

I just added Logi-ratings, -links, -properties links to the bottom 
of the document-footer. It's also possible now to modify document-
restrictions if one has admin-rights for them at least :)

I have been adding some small changes to the CSS in order to make
these menu's work. I hope this is no problem for you Bruno ?

It would be great if we can get your and Miguel's new improved link-drop-down
menu (with the table-listing of links we spoke about) in before I give my
presentation here in Groningen (this will be on the 13nd, in just 3 days)...

Wybo

Excellent!

On 2/8/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
>
> I just heard some very good news. Another Dutch University, the
> 'Universiteit van Nijmegen', has accepted to let a group of students
> work for credits on Manta as part of their "GipHouse" project.
>
> Friday the 16th I will be meeting them for an introduction-talk and to
> get the expectations and tasks in-line. They will most likely be doing
> the usabillity research we discussed, and if possible also implement
> some improvements suggested by their research!
>
> I will start working on the presentation for Fosdem this evening.
>
> greetings,
>
> Wybo
>
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-- 
Miguel Lezama

I just heard some very good news. Another Dutch University, the
'Universiteit van Nijmegen', has accepted to let a group of students 
work for credits on Manta as part of their "GipHouse" project.

Friday the 16th I will be meeting them for an introduction-talk and to
get the expectations and tasks in-line. They will most likely be doing 
the usabillity research we discussed, and if possible also implement 
some improvements suggested by their research!

I will start working on the presentation for Fosdem this evening.

greetings,

Wybo

> > I like the idea of definition-lists for containing this info. It's
> > neat and I too do bilieve in clean coding practices.
>
> I know you do! I hope I can meet the standards I look up to... I'll
> try my best.

:)

> > then the id's and languages are normal =i100, @en's with tooltips
> > showing their number, respectively language as a full word (like
> > English). Making the current id in the contenders-list bold seems a
> > good idea to me. Another alternative would be to remove the current id
> > from the contenders-list. Pick your preference :)
>
> Removing it is not a good practice. Is better to show it there but
> mark it as current.

Ok. Then I will add a contender also for the pages that have no
contenders but themselves.

> > > Ok, now that I've explained (tried to) myself, here is the link to the
> > > draft: http://overbits.com/logilogi/index_current_gui.html
> > >
> > > (now with orange scores!)
> >
> > cool :)
> 
> Well, my day is over now (not night work today), and I didn't had the
> time to make the new  draft, but there is still a good news, and is
> that Miguel made the mouse-out effect and works great! check it out in
> the draft, the second logi-link.

Great! It works like a charm! 

Big thanks to Miquel!

> I'll work on the draft and try to commit tomorrow.

Ok.

Wybo

> -- 
> Bruno

-- 

::Student:
- History, Informatiekunde (computer linguistics, IR, webtech) and Philosophy
- Member of the Center for Metahistory Groningen (http://www.rug.nl/let/cmg)

::Free Software and Open Source Developer:
- http://www.LogiLogi.org, Cumulative, shared commenting, publication and 
                           idea sharing: Where insight comes together...
- ComLinToo, a computational linguistics toolset written in Perl
- Lake (LogiLogi.org Make), a make-replacement using makefiles in pure C++

::Being:
- In the world, wavy hair, go figure (http://nl.logilogi.org/HomE/WyboWiersma)

On 2/7/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > Wybo,
> >
> > There are two things that are taking me too much time and always do
> > when designing, so I will count them out from the draft for now, till
> > we got something clear. This tow things are cross browser
> > compatibility and nice styling, font-sizes, spacing, etc. This drafts
> > are intended for FF.
>
> I think getting FF and IE to work is not that difficult anymore with
> the newest IE, as the current CSS + layout was cross-compatible... but
> it's wise not to start with this indeed...
>
What I mean is just that I wont make drafts taking cross browser
compatibility in mind, but I'll commit.

> > Also something that keeps me thinking and not writing html and css, is
> > that I need the markup to make sense or I don't feel comfortable with
> > the code. I could fill up the code with nested divs, spans, classes,
> > etc, but I just don't like it.
>
> I agree, though I have been mainly focussing on what the user gets to
> see while implementing layouts. Also especially on the indexes, and
> the forms I have been eager to get something up at least so things can
> start being used, which can be replaced or refined later on by you UI-
> wizzards...
>
> > I've been thinking for a good HTML markup approach to the manta
> > concepts, and I tried to find patterns to follow. The most obvious
> > concept (in terms of interaction with the user) is the difference
> > between requested and received information, where there is only one
> > request and can be multiple received (contenders), right?
> > I can see that this has the shape of definition lists, where there is
> > a Definition Term and a Definition Description
> > (http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#edef-DL), where the DT
> > (requested) should contain inline information (span tags are allowed)
> > and DD (received) can handle block-content (lists for example). So,
>
> I like the idea of definition-lists for containing this info. It's
> neat and I too do bilieve in clean coding practices.
>
I know you do! I hope I can meet the standards I look up to... I'll
try my best.

> > you can see the idea. Maybe I'm a little bit too obsessed with the
> > markup, and the front end is more important, so please don't hesitate
>
> ;) I somewhat agree with your self-diagnosis on the obsession with
> markup... as the user will probably never see the difference...
>
> > in guiding the development as you believe is best.
>
> We already discussed some things on IRC, so I'm looking forward to the
> improved draft.
>
> > I also have in mind a new approach to the urlbar, incorporating the DL
> > markup. If you think this is a better approach I'll go ahead and
> > update it (not hard to do).
>
> Would be ok.
>
> > discussed), and at the beginning I wouldn't use abbreviations like =i
> > @en =v and s,1 when possible. Of course not in the url, but we could
> > use the full word "id", "version", "language" and "sense" whenever
> > possible so to make it easier for the common user to understand.
> > The easy solution would be to have a block explaining the
> > abbreviations and colors.
>
> I agree, and we also already discussed this post-modernism-in-the-
> sense-of-exposing-some-internals thing. A good middle road seems to be
> to me putting the received part of the links in the drop-down menu
> into a table where there are headings like id, language, rating, and
> then the id's and languages are normal =i100, @en's with tooltips
> showing their number, respectively language as a full word (like
> English). Making the current id in the contenders-list bold seems a
> good idea to me. Another alternative would be to remove the current id
> from the contenders-list. Pick your preference :)
>
Removing it is not a good practice. Is better to show it there but
mark it as current.

> > Other minor thing is that I fixed the style sheets that was messed up
> > since my las commit. Now the link colors should display correctly when
> > I commit the changes.
>
> I discovered that already yesterday, and I committed the same fix. I
> hope they can be integrated again :)
>
> > I would also like to ask you if it is possible for you to make a hand
> > made example of a logilinkbox with more than one link, so to
> > understand who that would happend...
>
> As discussed the one in your draft already contains most of the needed
> content. I've also just added the docs on modes and stances. You can
> read it here, at the bottom of the introduction to links:
> http://www.logilogi.org/pub/mantadocs/app/classes/Link.html
>
> greetings,
>
> Wybo
>
> > Ok, now that I've explained (tried to) myself, here is the link to the
> > draft: http://overbits.com/logilogi/index_current_gui.html
> >
> > (now with orange scores!)
>
> cool :)
>

Well, my day is over now (not night work today), and I didn't had the
time to make the new  draft, but there is still a good news, and is
that Miguel made the mouse-out effect and works great! check it out in
the draft, the second logi-link.

I'll work on the draft and try to commit tomorrow.


-- 
Bruno

> Wybo,
> 
> There are two things that are taking me too much time and always do
> when designing, so I will count them out from the draft for now, till
> we got something clear. This tow things are cross browser
> compatibility and nice styling, font-sizes, spacing, etc. This drafts
> are intended for FF.

I think getting FF and IE to work is not that difficult anymore with
the newest IE, as the current CSS + layout was cross-compatible... but
it's wise not to start with this indeed...

> Also something that keeps me thinking and not writing html and css, is
> that I need the markup to make sense or I don't feel comfortable with
> the code. I could fill up the code with nested divs, spans, classes,
> etc, but I just don't like it.

I agree, though I have been mainly focussing on what the user gets to
see while implementing layouts. Also especially on the indexes, and
the forms I have been eager to get something up at least so things can
start being used, which can be replaced or refined later on by you UI-
wizzards...

> I've been thinking for a good HTML markup approach to the manta
> concepts, and I tried to find patterns to follow. The most obvious
> concept (in terms of interaction with the user) is the difference
> between requested and received information, where there is only one
> request and can be multiple received (contenders), right?
> I can see that this has the shape of definition lists, where there is
> a Definition Term and a Definition Description
> (http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#edef-DL), where the DT
> (requested) should contain inline information (span tags are allowed)
> and DD (received) can handle block-content (lists for example). So,

I like the idea of definition-lists for containing this info. It's
neat and I too do bilieve in clean coding practices.

> you can see the idea. Maybe I'm a little bit too obsessed with the
> markup, and the front end is more important, so please don't hesitate

;) I somewhat agree with your self-diagnosis on the obsession with
markup... as the user will probably never see the difference...

> in guiding the development as you believe is best.

We already discussed some things on IRC, so I'm looking forward to the
improved draft.

> I also have in mind a new approach to the urlbar, incorporating the DL
> markup. If you think this is a better approach I'll go ahead and
> update it (not hard to do).

Would be ok.

> discussed), and at the beginning I wouldn't use abbreviations like =i
> @en =v and s,1 when possible. Of course not in the url, but we could
> use the full word "id", "version", "language" and "sense" whenever
> possible so to make it easier for the common user to understand.
> The easy solution would be to have a block explaining the
> abbreviations and colors.

I agree, and we also already discussed this post-modernism-in-the-
sense-of-exposing-some-internals thing. A good middle road seems to be
to me putting the received part of the links in the drop-down menu
into a table where there are headings like id, language, rating, and
then the id's and languages are normal =i100, @en's with tooltips
showing their number, respectively language as a full word (like 
English). Making the current id in the contenders-list bold seems a
good idea to me. Another alternative would be to remove the current id
from the contenders-list. Pick your preference :)

> Other minor thing is that I fixed the style sheets that was messed up
> since my las commit. Now the link colors should display correctly when
> I commit the changes.

I discovered that already yesterday, and I committed the same fix. I
hope they can be integrated again :)

> I would also like to ask you if it is possible for you to make a hand
> made example of a logilinkbox with more than one link, so to
> understand who that would happend...

As discussed the one in your draft already contains most of the needed
content. I've also just added the docs on modes and stances. You can
read it here, at the bottom of the introduction to links:
http://www.logilogi.org/pub/mantadocs/app/classes/Link.html

greetings,

Wybo

> Ok, now that I've explained (tried to) myself, here is the link to the
> draft: http://overbits.com/logilogi/index_current_gui.html
> 
> (now with orange scores!)

cool :)

Wybo,

There are tow things that are taking me too much time and always do
when designing, so I will count them out from the draft for now, till
we got something clear. This tow things are cross browser
compatibility and nice styling, font-sizes, spacing, etc. This drafts
are intended for FF.

Also something that keeps me thinking and not writing html and css, is
that I need the markup to make sense or I don't feel comfortable with
the code. I could fill up the code with nested divs, spans, classes,
etc, but I just don't like it.
I've been thinking for a good HTML markup approach to the manta
concepts, and I tried to find patterns to follow. The most obvious
concept (in terms of interaction with the user) is the difference
between requested and received information, where there is only one
request and can be multiple received (contenders), right?
I can see that this has the shape of definition lists, where there is
a Definition Term and a Definition Description
(http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#edef-DL), where the DT
(requested) should contain inline information (span tags are allowed)
and DD (received) can handle block-content (lists for example). So,
you can see the idea. Maybe I'm a little bit too obsessed with the
markup, and the front end is more important, so please don't hesitate
in guiding the development as you believe is best.
I also have in mind a new approach to the urlbar, incorporating the DL
markup. If you think this is a better approach I'll go ahead and
update it (not hard to do).

Please also note that there are some suggestions on how to display
some information, like ids in the logilinkbox and the list of
contenders, also removing the link from the current logi id and
marking it bold. This are simple suggestions that might not fit manta
theory in some aspect, but I'm positive about finding a solution to
make Manta more usable.

I believe we should make clear what the colors mean (as we already
discussed), and at the beginning I wouldn't use abbreviations like =i
@en =v and s,1 when possible. Of course not in the url, but we could
use the full word "id", "version", "language" and "sense" whenever
possible so to make it easier for the common user to understand.
The easy solution would be to have a block explaining the
abbreviations and colors.

Other minor thing is that I fixed the style sheets that was messed up
since my las commit. Now the link colors should display correctly when
I commit the changes.

I would also like to ask you if it is possible for you to make a hand
made example of a logilinkbox with more than one link, so to
understand who that would happend...

Ok, now that I've explained (tried to) myself, here is the link to the
draft: http://overbits.com/logilogi/index_current_gui.html

(now with orange scores!)

-- 
Bruno

On 2/6/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> I added index-pages and basic create-forms for User Groups and
> Peer Groups. It's still very basic though. The stuff for adding
> members to groups for example is still on the todo list.
>
> The additions:
> http://en.logilogi.org:3000/do/user_group
> http://en.logilogi.org:3000/do/peer_group
>
> Wybo
>

Is great to see user and peer groups!!!

-- 
Bruno

I added index-pages and basic create-forms for User Groups and
Peer Groups. It's still very basic though. The stuff for adding
members to groups for example is still on the todo list.

The additions:
http://en.logilogi.org:3000/do/user_group
http://en.logilogi.org:3000/do/peer_group

Wybo

I just added a simple index-page:
http://en.logilogi.org:3000/do/word/index

I also added a few small fixes, like not showing You anymore for
anonymous users, and for the links at the top of the page a check
is made whether you are currently visiting one of them.

Note that a rake redo_dev_db is needed, because a column was added to
the global_configs table to hold the links.

I also updated the docs, as the dependency on ruby-openid was not yet
listed in there...

greetings,

Wybo

> Hi all,
> 
> > I just committed fixes for all the bugs I, and urgyen found on the World
> > LogiLogi Day. It should be a lot more stable now!
>
> I found another bug, which I'm not sure if it's already reported. The
> bug can be seen in this url:
> http://en.logilogi.com:3000/sandbox,s1=i142

This is a bug in the RedCloth library v 3.04, which is currently under 
heavy re-design and improvement, and has more issues, so we'll see how
the new version comes out, and if neccesary we might have to fix it
ourselves... (in any way if we have more time on our hands it would be
great to improve the (Super)RedCloth library...)

> > On the 13th I will be presenting Manta at our University. That's little
> > time, and there is a lot to do! It would be great if we got the UI for
> > the user- and peer-group-creation done before that date.
>
> Sure, and we will be on time!

Great!

> > Also Miguel, and Bruno, how is the onmouse-out going for the drop-down
> > menu's ? Besides it would be great if you two also had a look at
> > improving the usability. I made a small step in that direction by
> > adding the names of the languages as title-tags to the flags.
> 
> Well, first, the onmouse-out behavior hasn't been implemented yet and
> I don't know if Miguel is working on that. I guess it will be ready
> for that date. I also got very used to the actual behavior.

Miguel how are things ? Very busey at the moment ?

It would be cool to have it together with the usability improvements
to the link-drop-downs you are working on Bruno...

> About usability, there are too much things to work at as far as I can
> see. The UI is not even close to meet usability and accessibility
> standards, we know that. Wybo, as you said, we could fix the most
> obvious usability flaws, but I also believe that for achieving the
> quality I would like, we should make a major UI redesign, taking in

I fully agree with you on this one. As discussed I submitted a grant-
request for this at the "Digitale Pioniers-project". If we get it we
could do a full usabillity research with humanities-people, and make
the UI even easy for them.

> count from the beginning the new functionalities of Manta in the
> layout, and using as example other projects that have excellent
> approaches to Usability, Accessibility and other important standards
> that aren't meet today at LL. One example of this could be plone.org,
> which is GPL.

I agree.

> This is at least the way I see it, and what I can imagine LL can be in
> the future. I would like to make an approach of the general UI taking
> all the above mentioned in count.
> I would like to have this proposal ready for the upcoming
> presentations, as in this presentations is where things are really
> tested (as the world LL day), but I don't think it will be possible to
> have it done in 12-23 days before the presentations, so we might just
> get down to the fundamental things and then think about further UI
> dev.

I think that it would be best to have as many things as possible
accessable through some sort of UI before the Fosdem presentation, as
most people there will be nerds like we anyway, so they can handle
more in UI-terms... Also it would be great if we could get more
developers interested to become core-developers at that conference...

> What needs to be done right away is:
>  * pop-overs for alternative logis version. (also senses?)
>  * rethink layout of logilinkbox. (I think it should be more clear of
> what each think means, like with a table as in a layout I showed
> before)
>  * user, groups and peer-group settings.
>  * history view layout?
>  * print view layout?

I agree with all these focus-points, with the note that for this month
adding not-yet-implemented parts of the UI (like peer-group creation) 
is more important than refining already existing ones (with the
exception of the link-drop- down-box, as that one is so central to
Manta, and it's meaning is often missed even by wizzkids...).

I am looking forward to your example for the link-drop-down box
improvements... 

I will be working on the index this evening. See you in #logilogi.

Wybo

Hi all,

On 1/30/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> Hi all, welcome to those new on this list!
>
> I just committed fixes for all the bugs I, and urgyen found on the World
> LogiLogi Day. It should be a lot more stable now!
>
I found another bug, which I'm not sure if it's already reported. The
bug can be seen in this url:
http://en.logilogi.com:3000/sandbox,s1=i142

The problem seems in the parsing of double quotes mixed with links.
Check it out.

> On the 13th I will be presenting Manta at our University. That's little
> time, and there is a lot to do! It would be great if we got the UI for
> the user- and peer-group-creation done before that date.
>
Sure, and we will be on time!

> Also Miguel, and Bruno, how is the onmouse-out going for the drop-down
> menu's ? Besides it would be great if you two also had a look at
> improving the usability. I made a small step in that direction by
> adding the names of the languages as title-tags to the flags.
>
Well, first, the onmouse-out behavior hasn't been implemented yet and
I don't know if Miguel is working on that. I guess it will be ready
for that date. I also got very used to the actual behavior.

About usability, there are too much things to work at as far as I can
see. The UI is not even close to meet usability and accessibility
standards, we know that. Wybo, as you said, we could fix the most
obvious usability flaws, but I also believe that for achieving the
quality I would like, we should make a major UI redesign, taking in
count from the beginning the new functionalities of Manta in the
layout, and using as example other projects that have excellent
approaches to Usability, Accessibility and other important standards
that aren't meet today at LL. One example of this could be plone.org,
which is GPL.

This is at least the way I see it, and what I can imagine LL can be in
the future. I would like to make an approach of the general UI taking
all the above mentioned in count.
I would like to have this proposal ready for the upcoming
presentations, as in this presentations is where things are really
tested (as the world LL day), but I don't think it will be possible to
have it done in 12-23 days before the presentations, so we might just
get down to the fundamental things and then think about further UI
dev.

What needs to be done right away is:
 * pop-overs for alternative logis version. (also senses?)
 * rethink layout of logilinkbox. (I think it should be more clear of
what each think means, like with a table as in a layout I showed
before)
 * user, groups and peer-group settings.
 * history view layout?
 * print view layout?

> Anyone willing to help our Manta grow: suggest, or ask for a task!
> either here or via irc: #logilogi on freenode.net.
>
> greetings,
>
> Wybo
>
> --
>



-- 
Bruno

I just implemented the Recent Changes page
(http://en.logilogi.org:3000/do/logi/changes)

I'm now on to the Index...

Wybo

Welcome Sam,

> Hello, I've just joined the mailing list.

Great!, I'll answer to the list, so others get to know you, and can
follow up.

> I have previous experience with PHP and cakephp which is a php framework
> based around ruby on rails, so everything is pretty familiar, and me and
> rails are getting on well. :)

Great. If you want it would be great if you joined Bruno and Miguel in
their work on the UI, for example by adding the page needed for users 
to edit their preference profiles (PrefsProfile).

Did you already successfully install a svn-chekout of Manta on your
own machine ?

Wybo

-- 

::Student:
- History, Informatiekunde (computer linguistics, IR, webtech) and Philosophy
- Member of the Center for Metahistory Groningen (http://www.rug.nl/let/cmg)

::Free Software and Open Source Developer:
- http://www.LogiLogi.org, Cumulative, shared commenting, publication and 
                           idea sharing: A smart zone on the web...
- ComLinToo, a computational linguistics toolset written in Perl
- Lake (LogiLogi.org Make), a make-replacement using makefiles in pure C++

::Being:
- In the world, wavy hair, go figure (http://nl.logilogi.org/HomE/WyboWiersma)

Hi all, welcome to those new on this list!

I just committed fixes for all the bugs I, and urgyen found on the World 
LogiLogi Day. It should be a lot more stable now!

On the 13th I will be presenting Manta at our University. That's little 
time, and there is a lot to do! It would be great if we got the UI for
the user- and peer-group-creation done before that date.

Also Miguel, and Bruno, how is the onmouse-out going for the drop-down
menu's ? Besides it would be great if you two also had a look at
improving the usabillity. I made a small step in that direction by
adding the names of the languages as title-tags to the flags.

Anyone willing to help our Manta grow: suggest, or ask for a task!
either here or via irc: #logilogi on freenode.net.

greetings,

Wybo

-- 

::Student:
- History, Informatiekunde (computer linguistics, IR, webtech) and Philosophy
- Member of the Center for Metahistory Groningen (http://www.rug.nl/let/cmg)

::Free Software and Open Source Developer:
- http://www.LogiLogi.org, innovative system for cumulative, shared commenting,
                           publication and idea sharing: Web as it should be...
- ComLinToo, a computational linguistics toolset written in Perl
- Lake (LogiLogi.org Make), a make-replacement using makefiles in pure C++

::Being:
- In the world, go figure (http://nl.logilogi.org/HomE/WyboWiersma)

I wish you all a good World LogiLogi Day!

You can congratulate yourself with the progress of Manta!

We have a comments-system now now, and comments are logis by
themselves too. In this way we can have threads with less diverging 
tendencies. We also have link-coloring, and a favicon. Also I was 
very pleased to see that we have a spanish translation of the 
mainpage!

greetings,
and special thanks to Bruno and Miguel,

Wybo Wiersma

> My bad. I installed ferret now, and everything almost worked. This is
> not important right now, but just to let you know, this is the output.
> 
> rake db:fixtures:load_inc_config --trace
> (in /var/www/virtual/overbits.com/logilogimanta)
> ** Invoke db:fixtures:load_inc_config (first_time)
> ** Invoke environment (first_time)
> ** Execute environment
> ** Execute db:fixtures:load_inc_config
> rake aborted!
> Unknown key(s): allow_nil

Did you update rails to 1.2.1 ? (gem update)

> > I don't even give an extensive presentation here today, in the sense
> > of slides, and a pre-fabricated story. It's more an interactive thing
> > where I will explain and make things clear as questios come...
>
> I also don't feel that confident with my knowledge of the theory behind LL.

I'll be around on IRC, and you already know quite a bit!

> I'll try to arrange a meeting with the people I know that could be
> interested, I'll give it a try.

Great!

> > > And ofcourse, I'll be celebrating the World LogiLogi Day, probably
> > > going out somewere to have a good time! ;-)
> >
> > Would be nice. Although it would also be great if you and Miguel came
> > online in #logilogi...
>
> We'll be online for sure! I'll go online right now too, as I'll be
> working on the styles and I'll send another email when I have them
> done.

Cool, I'm currently working on the comments. Almost done.

> Also, just to know about it, look what I found
> http://www.globalideasbank.org/site/news/index.php?articleId=186

Bweh! ;)

Wybo

> > Wybo

> Count on me at #logilogi tomorrow!

Great!

> At what time?

We start here around 19:00 London Time, that will be 17:00 in Montevideo, but 
that will be the party, during which there will be a lot of talking too. I'll 
be most of the time on IRC during the afternoon.

Wybo

On 1/27/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > Hi Wybo,
> >
> > 6_logilogi_development, and the same for the other databases. Becouse
> > of this, I had to modify the two rake scripts, the do and redo, as the
> > databases names are not taken from the databases.yml. I think I had
> > already told you about my installation proces.
>
> I will change this after the LL-day, so next time they are loaded from
> the yml.
>
> > Then, there is some problem I can't get throught. When I execute "rake
> > redo_dev_db  --trace", this is the output:
> >
> > <snap>
> >
> > no such file to load -- ferret
> >
> > <snap>
>
> Ferret seems to be missing. This is the search-engine that Manta uses.
> Note that the dependencies changed a bit during your holiday. The most
> recent list can be found in the README_FOR_APP inside the doc/ directory,
> and online at: http://www.logilogi.org/pub/mantadocs/app/
>
My bad. I installed ferret now, and everything almost worked. This is
not important right now, but just to let you know, this is the output.

rake db:fixtures:load_inc_config --trace
(in /var/www/virtual/overbits.com/logilogimanta)
** Invoke db:fixtures:load_inc_config (first_time)
** Invoke environment (first_time)
** Execute environment
** Execute db:fixtures:load_inc_config
rake aborted!
Unknown key(s): allow_nil


> > I just wanted to write this down. I started to organize things to work
> > tomorrow and get everything done before LL day! I'll go to sleep now
> > and work tomorrow.
>
> Great!
>
> Due to the time-difference LL day starts 3 hours earlier here...
>
> > About the meeting, I have some thoughts...
> >
> > I thougth the posibility of setting a mitting place, but as I'm moving
> > away right now everything is messed up.
> > Also, I understand that if I was to invite people to the meeting I
> > should prepare some presentation about LL and Manta more specificly,
> > and all of this in spanish, but I just don't have the time.
>
> I don't even give an extensive presentation here today, in the sense
> of slides, and a pre-fabricated story. It's more an interactive thing
> where I will explain and make things clear as questios come...
>
I also don't feel that confident with my knowledge of the theory behind LL.

I'll try to arrange a meeting with the people I know that could be
interested, I'll give it a try.

> > And ofcourse, I'll be celebrating the World LogiLogi Day, probably
> > going out somewere to have a good time! ;-)
>
> Would be nice. Although it would also be great if you and Miguel came
> online in #logilogi...
>
We'll be online for sure! I'll go online right now too, as I'll be
working on the styles and I'll send another email when I have them
done.

Also, just to know about it, look what I found
http://www.globalideasbank.org/site/news/index.php?articleId=186

> Wybo
>
> > Later,
> >
> > --
> > Bruno
>


-- 
Bruno

On 1/27/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Wybo,
> >
> > 6_logilogi_development, and the same for the other databases. Becouse
> > of this, I had to modify the two rake scripts, the do and redo, as the
> > databases names are not taken from the databases.yml. I think I had
> > already told you about my installation proces.
>
> I will change this after the LL-day, so next time they are loaded from
> the yml.
>
> > Then, there is some problem I can't get throught. When I execute "rake
> > redo_dev_db  --trace", this is the output:
> >
> > <snap>
> >
> > no such file to load -- ferret
> >
> > <snap>
>
> Ferret seems to be missing. This is the search-engine that Manta uses.
> Note that the dependencies changed a bit during your holiday. The most
> recent list can be found in the README_FOR_APP inside the doc/ directory,
> and online at: http://www.logilogi.org/pub/mantadocs/app/
>
> > I just wanted to write this down. I started to organize things to work
> > tomorrow and get everything done before LL day! I'll go to sleep now
> > and work tomorrow.
>
> Great!
>
> Due to the time-difference LL day starts 3 hours earlier here...
>
> > About the meeting, I have some thoughts...
> >
> > I thougth the posibility of setting a mitting place, but as I'm moving
> > away right now everything is messed up.
> > Also, I understand that if I was to invite people to the meeting I
> > should prepare some presentation about LL and Manta more specificly,
> > and all of this in spanish, but I just don't have the time.
>
> I don't even give an extensive presentation here today, in the sense
> of slides, and a pre-fabricated story. It's more an interactive thing
> where I will explain and make things clear as questios come...
>
> > And ofcourse, I'll be celebrating the World LogiLogi Day, probably
> > going out somewere to have a good time! ;-)
>
> Would be nice. Although it would also be great if you and Miguel came
> online in #logilogi...



Count on me at #logilogi tomorrow!

At what time?


Wybo
>
> > Later,
> >
> > --
> > Bruno
>
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>



-- 
Miguel Lezama

> Hi Wybo,
> 
> 6_logilogi_development, and the same for the other databases. Becouse
> of this, I had to modify the two rake scripts, the do and redo, as the
> databases names are not taken from the databases.yml. I think I had
> already told you about my installation proces.

I will change this after the LL-day, so next time they are loaded from 
the yml.

> Then, there is some problem I can't get throught. When I execute "rake
> redo_dev_db  --trace", this is the output:
>
> <snap>
>
> no such file to load -- ferret
> 
> <snap>

Ferret seems to be missing. This is the search-engine that Manta uses.
Note that the dependencies changed a bit during your holiday. The most
recent list can be found in the README_FOR_APP inside the doc/ directory, 
and online at: http://www.logilogi.org/pub/mantadocs/app/

> I just wanted to write this down. I started to organize things to work
> tomorrow and get everything done before LL day! I'll go to sleep now
> and work tomorrow.

Great! 

Due to the time-difference LL day starts 3 hours earlier here...

> About the meeting, I have some thoughts...
> 
> I thougth the posibility of setting a mitting place, but as I'm moving
> away right now everything is messed up.
> Also, I understand that if I was to invite people to the meeting I
> should prepare some presentation about LL and Manta more specificly,
> and all of this in spanish, but I just don't have the time.

I don't even give an extensive presentation here today, in the sense
of slides, and a pre-fabricated story. It's more an interactive thing
where I will explain and make things clear as questios come...

> And ofcourse, I'll be celebrating the World LogiLogi Day, probably
> going out somewere to have a good time! ;-)

Would be nice. Although it would also be great if you and Miguel came 
online in #logilogi...

Wybo

> Later,
> 
> -- 
> Bruno

Hi Wybo,

I'm not very used to work with SVN, so I had my LL copy messed up so I
decided to check all files out again. When I did this, I had to
configure and install logilogi again, so I did the necesary stuff.
As I have some control panel that manages my databases, the databases
can't be named logilogi_development, but instead
6_logilogi_development, and the same for the other databases. Becouse
of this, I had to modify the two rake scripts, the do and redo, as the
databases names are not taken from the databases.yml. I think I had
already told you about my installation proces.

Then, there is some problem I can't get throught. When I execute "rake
redo_dev_db  --trace", this is the output:

/////////////////////////////////////////////////
ns1:/var/www/virtual/overbits.com/logilogimanta# rake redo_dev_db --trace
(in /var/www/virtual/overbits.com/logilogimanta)
** Invoke redo_dev_db (first_time)
** Execute redo_dev_db
echo 'drop database 6_logilogi_development;' | mysql -u 6_logilogi -plogilogi
echo 'drop database 6_logilogi_test;' | mysql -u 6_logilogi -plogilogi
rake do_dev_db
(in /var/www/virtual/overbits.com/logilogimanta)
echo 'create database 6_logilogi_development;' | mysql -u 6_logilogi -plogilogi
echo 'create database 6_logilogi_test;' | mysql -u 6_logilogi -plogilogi
rake db:migrate
(in /var/www/virtual/overbits.com/logilogimanta)
rake aborted!
no such file to load -- ferret

(See full trace by running task with --trace)
rake aborted!
Command failed with status (1): [rake db:migrate]

(See full trace by running task with --trace)
rake aborted!
Command failed with status (1): [rake do_dev_db]
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/lib/rake.rb:722:in `sh'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/lib/rake.rb:721:in `call'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/lib/rake.rb:729:in `sh'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/lib/rake.rb:812:in `sh'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/lib/rake.rb:807:in `sh'
./lib/tasks/redo_dev_db.rake:13
./lib/tasks/redo_dev_db.rake:1:in `call'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/lib/rake.rb:387:in `execute'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/lib/rake.rb:387:in `each'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/lib/rake.rb:387:in `execute'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/lib/rake.rb:357:in `invoke'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/lib/rake.rb:350:in `synchronize'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/lib/rake.rb:350:in `invoke'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/lib/rake.rb:1906:in `run'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/lib/rake.rb:1906:in `each'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/lib/rake.rb:1906:in `run'
/usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.1/bin/rake:7
/usr/bin/rake:18:in `load'
/usr/bin/rake:18

/////////////////////////////////////////////////

I just wanted to write this down. I started to organize things to work
tomorrow and get everything done before LL day! I'll go to sleep now
and work tomorrow.

About the meeting, I have some thoughts...

I thougth the posibility of setting a mitting place, but as I'm moving
away right now everything is messed up.
Also, I understand that if I was to invite people to the meeting I
should prepare some presentation about LL and Manta more specificly,
and all of this in spanish, but I just don't have the time.
Also, I've already explained as much as I could about LL to the people
I thought could be interested in the project.
On the other hand, if there is anybody I don't know interested in LL
arround here, I would be more than happy to meet and talk and exchange
ideas.
And ofcourse, I'll be celebrating the World LogiLogi Day, probably
going out somewere to have a good time! ;-)

Later,

-- 
Bruno

> > out on my travels that most often this is either impossible or
> > expensive...).
>
> AFAIK, my reservations are not printed tickets, just reservatios. I
> guess I could check if there is availability, which will be difficult,
> but I'm kind of sure that I can change the date with no extra feed.

Those are good ticket conditions, great!

> > I might be able to compensate 150 Euros of your expenses from the small
> > grant Manta received last year.
>
> Manta bank! Thanks, this is more than I would expected. I would take
> the compensation if there is now other way out ;)

np.

> > > This was such a great idea!, tomorrow I'll think better about it and
> > > see if it's possible.
> >
> > I hope so!
>
> I still don't have a conclussion, I have to arrange some things to
> make this possible.

I understand.

> make this possible. I'm also more worried about the 28th right now as
> you might be I suppose.

It doesn't need to be perfect on the 28th, as long as it works and is
a bit clearer than it is now, I would already be very happy. Consider
a World Day while still at 2/3rd of functionality is visible an agile 
practice ;)

> Didn't worked on the layout yet, but will do the comming days. What I
> see difficult, for example, would be for me to make popovers desapear
> on mouseOut, and I'm not sure Miguel will have the time.

Would be very, very cool if he has.

Also neat would be if we could make the contents of the link-drop-
downs a bit clearer. With tool-tip help, or headings or such, also the
link-colors depending on whether Logi's were found are a must.

I will try to get commenting to work before the 28th, but a very 
unique kind of it, you'll see...

I'm off to the two days of commission work tomorrow. Probably no i-net
in the hotel... 

till friday!,

Wybo

PS: Ahmed Ragab, from what I can judge a talented developer, might 
be joining the list in the coming two days, please give him a warm
welcome!

> > greetings,
> >
> > Wybo
> >
> > > I'll go to sleep now.

On 1/24/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > Actually I could change my reservations that were for the 28th Feb. I
> > need to be at Granada, Spain March the 1rst, so it sounds possible.
>
> Would be great. That is if you can change your reservations (I found
> out on my travels that most often this is either impossible or
> expensive...).
AFAIK, my reservations are not printed tickets, just reservatios. I
guess I could check if there is availability, which will be difficult,
but I'm kind of sure that I can change the date with no extra feed.

>
> > I had thought about going over your country to meet each other and
> > talk in person, once I was over there in Europe, but now that you talk
> > about 24th Feb I believe it could be possible, and it would be a
> > really great oportunity to see the presentation of LL, which is also
> > very exiting to be part of a little part of this project!
>
> Indeed!
>
> > I have to take in count the costs of accomodation. I could travel by
> > train to save some bucks. What do you propose to be a cheep plan?
> > How much could you estimate it would cost to stay 4 days and travel by
> > train from Granada to Brussels and back?
>
> I think it wouldn't be that cheap. The trip, either by train (5 days of
> free travel in through Spain, France, and the Benelux in 2 months
> http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/passes/eurail_selectpass.htm) or plane
> would cost around 400 Euros. The stay in Brussels is about 60 Euros for
> 3 nights in a youth-hostel.
>
Ok, now I have some idea of the costs.

> I might be able to compensate 150 Euros of your expenses from the small
> grant Manta received last year.
>
Manta bank! Thanks, this is more than I would expected. I would take
the compensation if there is now other way out ;)

> > This was such a great idea!, tomorrow I'll think better about it and
> > see if it's possible.
>
> I hope so!
>
I still don't have a conclussion, I have to arrange some things to
make this possible. I'm also more worried about the 28th right now as
you might be I suppose.

Didn't worked on the layout yet, but will do the comming days. What I
see difficult, for example, would be for me to make popovers desapear
on mouseOut, and I'm not sure Miguel will have the time.

> greetings,
>
> Wybo
>
> > I'll go to sleep now.
>

-- 
Bruno

> Actually I could change my reservations that were for the 28th Feb. I
> need to be at Granada, Spain March the 1rst, so it sounds possible.

Would be great. That is if you can change your reservations (I found
out on my travels that most often this is either impossible or 
expensive...).

> I had thought about going over your country to meet each other and
> talk in person, once I was over there in Europe, but now that you talk
> about 24th Feb I believe it could be possible, and it would be a
> really great oportunity to see the presentation of LL, which is also
> very exiting to be part of a little part of this project!

Indeed!

> I have to take in count the costs of accomodation. I could travel by
> train to save some bucks. What do you propose to be a cheep plan?
> How much could you estimate it would cost to stay 4 days and travel by
> train from Granada to Brussels and back?

I think it wouldn't be that cheap. The trip, either by train (5 days of
free travel in through Spain, France, and the Benelux in 2 months
http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/passes/eurail_selectpass.htm) or plane
would cost around 400 Euros. The stay in Brussels is about 60 Euros for 
3 nights in a youth-hostel.

I might be able to compensate 150 Euros of your expenses from the small
grant Manta received last year.

> This was such a great idea!, tomorrow I'll think better about it and
> see if it's possible.

I hope so!

greetings,

Wybo

> I'll go to sleep now.