logilogi-list Mailing List for LogiLogi - Software Libre for the Web (Page 41)

Great news!

Wybo: i started to work on those mysql joints, i am re-studing a little
mysql right now.

On 3/3/07, Bruno Sarlo <bru...@gm...> wrote:
>
> Congratulations LogiLogi! :)
>
> On 3/3/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > The LogiLogi Foundation is a fact! On 1 March 2007 it was inscribed by
> > the Dutch chamber of commerce. The mission-statement is:
> >
> > '
> > Enabling and advancing insightful communication through virtual
> > networks and making ideas, information and views accessible, clear and
> > useful world wide.
> >
> > Developing, hosting, promoting and supporting open source software for
> > these purposes.
> >
> > And doing all this in the spirit of the Free Software movement, the
> > Open Media, and the European Tradition of the Republic of Letters.
> > '
> >
> > The full charter (in Dutch) can be downloaded
> > [http://www.logilogi.org/pub/StatutenStichtingLogiLogi.pdf here].
> >
> > Some less good news is that our grant proposal for the Digitale
> > pioniers programme was turned down. Largely because I didn't make our
> > strategy for reaching our target audience explicit enough. But they
> > said we make a good chance in the next round if we fix this, so we'll
> > try again in April.
> >
> > greetings,
> >
> > Wybo
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
> your
> > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> >
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> > _______________________________________________
> > LogiLogi-list mailing list
> > Log...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
> >
>
>
> --
> Bruno
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share
> your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
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>



-- 
Miguel Lezama

Congratulations LogiLogi! :)

On 3/3/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> The LogiLogi Foundation is a fact! On 1 March 2007 it was inscribed by
> the Dutch chamber of commerce. The mission-statement is:
>
> '
> Enabling and advancing insightful communication through virtual
> networks and making ideas, information and views accessible, clear and
> useful world wide.
>
> Developing, hosting, promoting and supporting open source software for
> these purposes.
>
> And doing all this in the spirit of the Free Software movement, the
> Open Media, and the European Tradition of the Republic of Letters.
> '
>
> The full charter (in Dutch) can be downloaded
> [http://www.logilogi.org/pub/StatutenStichtingLogiLogi.pdf here].
>
> Some less good news is that our grant proposal for the Digitale
> pioniers programme was turned down. Largely because I didn't make our
> strategy for reaching our target audience explicit enough. But they
> said we make a good chance in the next round if we fix this, so we'll
> try again in April.
>
> greetings,
>
> Wybo
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> LogiLogi-list mailing list
> Log...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>


-- 
Bruno

The LogiLogi Foundation is a fact! On 1 March 2007 it was inscribed by
the Dutch chamber of commerce. The mission-statement is: 

'
Enabling and advancing insightful communication through virtual
networks and making ideas, information and views accessible, clear and
useful world wide. 

Developing, hosting, promoting and supporting open source software for 
these purposes.

And doing all this in the spirit of the Free Software movement, the 
Open Media, and the European Tradition of the Republic of Letters.
'

The full charter (in Dutch) can be downloaded
[http://www.logilogi.org/pub/StatutenStichtingLogiLogi.pdf here].

Some less good news is that our grant proposal for the Digitale
pioniers programme was turned down. Largely because I didn't make our
strategy for reaching our target audience explicit enough. But they
said we make a good chance in the next round if we fix this, so we'll
try again in April.

greetings,

Wybo

I fixed some small bugs related to editing yesterday (should work fine
now) and I added descriptions on both our Diff algorithm, and (for Miguel
and others) the sql-joins that need optimalization.

You can find the descriptions here:
http://en.logilogi.org:3000/development,s1/diff_algorithm
http://en.logilogi.org:3000/development,s1/the_joins

greetings,

Wybo Wiersma

The Fosdem was a great event. FOSS-hackers all over, actually more
than 3.500 of them; quite some interesting people and projects! It was
also very great that fellow Manta developers Bruno, and even Miguel
could come, as they were in Europe anyway. In the end Manta was
represented by 3 of us! The 2 LogiLogi t-shirts we brought with us
also did much good for getting people to know LogiLogi Manta.

And of course we had our Lightning-talk on sunday morning 11:00 o
clock. Luckily Bruno brought his digital camera, and recorded our
presentation. So we have our first video-cast online, and here it is:
http://www.logilogi.org/pub/LogiLogiMantaAtFosdem2007.avi

The slides of the presentation are actually readable in the video,
but they can be found here too:
http://www.logilogi.org/pub/FosdemPresentation/LogiLogiManta.html

In the coming days I will add some documentation to Manta, like a
description of the diff-algorithm (for the C++ adept from Nijmegen) 
and the sql-queries (for Miguel).

greetings,

Wybo Wiersma

> Wybo,
> 
> I'm at madrid airport. I'll be at brussells at 11.20 as spected.

Great. We will arrive around 18:00 in Brussels and then walk to the
youth-hostel in a few minutes...

> I'm sorry it didn't worked right. The dropdowns over links should be
> fixed adding hi z-index to the dropdown and low z-index to the
> logilogilink span, but it need testing.

I already tried that, but z-index doesn't work on spans...

If we could have the drop-down to be a div we would also be rid of the
IE-<p>-bug...

Anyway, I added error-checking to logi-editing yesterday, and I've
also started the rating-distributor. Tonight around 02:00 the first
real voting-power will be assigned...!

I'm on my way now to the Fosdem too,

See you in Brussels!

Wybo

Wybo,

I'm at madrid airport. I'll be at brussells at 11.20 as spected.

I'm sorry it didn't worked right. The dropdowns over links should be
fixed adding hi z-index to the dropdown and low z-index to the
logilogilink span, but it need testing.

On 2/22/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > I just added this line in the css of the link:
> >
> > /////////////////
> > span.logilogi_link a span.first_half_link {
> >  background-color: #fff;
> > }
> > ////////////////
>
> This works!
>
> The suggestion you did below however removes the green color of the
> second link_part when the drop-down is expanded.
>
> > This was the first thing I tested, with no time and it worked... I
> > might be out of my mind right now and might not be doing things right,
> > this is incredible. Please test it for me.
>
> I tested it, and sadly enough the drop-downs didn't work at all. The
> ajax was not called. I found out that for some unknown IE reason they
> don't work if there are <p> -tags inside the body, so I removed those
> with a quick hack ruby .gsub.
>
> They're far from ideal yet (the drop-downs appear behind links below
> them), but at least we have dropdowns now in IE...
>
:-(

> > talked with miguel, he might get there.
>
> Great!
>
> > 4.47, I'm gone to the airport now.
> >
> > see you in brussels
>
> Indeed!
>
> Wybo
>
> > --
> > Bruno
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> LogiLogi-list mailing list
> Log...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>

Have to go now, later.

-- 
Bruno

> I just added this line in the css of the link:
> 
> /////////////////
> span.logilogi_link a span.first_half_link {
>  background-color: #fff;
> }
> ////////////////

This works!

The suggestion you did below however removes the green color of the
second link_part when the drop-down is expanded.

> This was the first thing I tested, with no time and it worked... I
> might be out of my mind right now and might not be doing things right,
> this is incredible. Please test it for me.

I tested it, and sadly enough the drop-downs didn't work at all. The
ajax was not called. I found out that for some unknown IE reason they
don't work if there are <p> -tags inside the body, so I removed those
with a quick hack ruby .gsub.

They're far from ideal yet (the drop-downs appear behind links below 
them), but at least we have dropdowns now in IE...

> talked with miguel, he might get there.

Great!

> 4.47, I'm gone to the airport now.
> 
> see you in brussels

Indeed!

Wybo

> -- 
> Bruno

> > I also just found a few non-ui-related bugs that I'm fixing now.
> >
> Wybo, other bugs I found, was when signing in with the open id, it
> will take me to this url
> http://en.logilogi.com:3000/do/link/ajax_list/167 (this is new,
> yesterday it showed a 500 error).
> After this error or ajax_list page, the entire demo wont work... Maybe
> this is what is hanging up the system?

This bug was caused by application.rb storing the current url on every
call, including ajax-calls, and redirect using this value as it's
target...

I fixed it, and it should work now.

Wybo

On 2/21/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> > > Bruno's version-drop-down menu. Judge for yourself but I think it's quite
> > > nifty! Besides this he also sent in a small fix for the link-drop-down in
> > > IE, which I've also integrated.
> >
> > The fix worked, but logilogi links are not behaving as spected in IE,
> > and I'm not sure why is this yet. When I mouseover the link, the 2
> > colors are not showed, but when I click the link, then the colors work
> > again, until the drop-down-box is closed again, and then the links
> > don't work anymore.
> >
> > It's sad to see it's not working as it should, at least in IE, just
> > before the Fosdem...
>
> Auch. Indeed.
>
> > I'll check the mail tomorrow, and I might get to the computer later at
> > night and try to fix things before leaving to the airport, but I can't
> > ensure this.
>
> Would be great if you can make it!
>
> I also just found a few non-ui-related bugs that I'm fixing now.
>
Wybo, other bugs I found, was when signing in with the open id, it
will take me to this url
http://en.logilogi.com:3000/do/link/ajax_list/167 (this is new,
yesterday it showed a 500 error).
After this error or ajax_list page, the entire demo wont work... Maybe
this is what is hanging up the system?

> greetings,
>
> Wybo
>
> > later.
> >
> > --
> > Bruno
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> LogiLogi-list mailing list
> Log...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>


-- 
Bruno

> > Bruno's version-drop-down menu. Judge for yourself but I think it's quite
> > nifty! Besides this he also sent in a small fix for the link-drop-down in
> > IE, which I've also integrated.
>
> The fix worked, but logilogi links are not behaving as spected in IE,
> and I'm not sure why is this yet. When I mouseover the link, the 2
> colors are not showed, but when I click the link, then the colors work
> again, until the drop-down-box is closed again, and then the links
> don't work anymore.
>
> It's sad to see it's not working as it should, at least in IE, just
> before the Fosdem...

Auch. Indeed.

> I'll check the mail tomorrow, and I might get to the computer later at
> night and try to fix things before leaving to the airport, but I can't
> ensure this.

Would be great if you can make it!

I also just found a few non-ui-related bugs that I'm fixing now.

greetings,

Wybo

> later.
> 
> -- 
> Bruno

On 2/20/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> I just committed some improvements:
>
> Bruno's version-drop-down menu. Judge for yourself but I think it's quite
> nifty! Besides this he also sent in a small fix for the link-drop-down in
> IE, which I've also integrated.
>
The fix worked, but logilogi links are not behaving as spected in IE,
and I'm not sure why is this yet. When I mouseover the link, the 2
colors are not showed, but when I click the link, then the colors work
again, until the drop-down-box is closed again, and then the links
don't work anymore.

It's sad to see it's not working as it should, at least in IE, just
before the Fosdem...

> Google-maps user-locations. This is merely a nice feature which makes
> it very visible how international collaboration is central to Manta.
>
> > >They work well, except for the fact that the links in the drop-down
> > >don't seem to be clickable, as well as the link to the version currently
> > >shown. The =v6 should be linking to the current location, so people
> > >can copy the link as a permalink.
> >
> > I need to know if anybody see the links in the drop-down not
> > clickable, as I've always seen them clickable.
>
> They were in the sense of getting the drop-down, but the current link
> didn't do anything. Now they work, as you said when pointing me to the
> updated version...
>
> > I made a new approach so the link will be clickable and the arrow will
> > show the list. Still I'd like to display this dropdowns nicely (love
> > the flickr dropdwons although they are images), but that will take
> > more time. At the moment it will do the trick, but the dropdown is not
> > clearly associated with the version, it could be confusing.
>
> Indeed. It's great we have something working now, and later on
> something like the flickr dropdowns would be beautifull.
>
> > Great! maps! another manta dimension! ;)
>
> And here it is:
> http://en.logilogi.org:3000/home,s1/wybo,s1
>
> greetings,
>
> Wybo
>
> --
>

I'll check the mail tomorrow, and I might get to the computer later at
night and try to fix things before leaving to the airport, but I can't
ensure this.

later.

-- 
Bruno

I just committed some improvements:

Bruno's version-drop-down menu. Judge for yourself but I think it's quite 
nifty! Besides this he also sent in a small fix for the link-drop-down in 
IE, which I've also integrated.

Google-maps user-locations. This is merely a nice feature which makes
it very visible how international collaboration is central to Manta.

> >They work well, except for the fact that the links in the drop-down
> >don't seem to be clickable, as well as the link to the version currently
> >shown. The =v6 should be linking to the current location, so people
> >can copy the link as a permalink.
> 
> I need to know if anybody see the links in the drop-down not
> clickable, as I've always seen them clickable.

They were in the sense of getting the drop-down, but the current link
didn't do anything. Now they work, as you said when pointing me to the
updated version...

> I made a new approach so the link will be clickable and the arrow will
> show the list. Still I'd like to display this dropdowns nicely (love
> the flickr dropdwons although they are images), but that will take
> more time. At the moment it will do the trick, but the dropdown is not
> clearly associated with the version, it could be confusing.

Indeed. It's great we have something working now, and later on
something like the flickr dropdowns would be beautifull.

> Great! maps! another manta dimension! ;)

And here it is:
http://en.logilogi.org:3000/home,s1/wybo,s1

greetings,

Wybo

-- 

::Student:
- History, Informatiekunde (computer linguistics, IR, webtech) and Philosophy
- Member of the Center for Metahistory Groningen (http://www.rug.nl/let/cmg)

::Free Software and Open Source Developer:
- http://www.LogiLogi.org, Cumulative, shared commenting, publication and 
                           idea sharing: Where insight comes together...
- ComLinToo, a computational linguistics toolset written in Perl
- Lake (LogiLogi.org Make), a make-replacement using makefiles in pure C++

::Being:
- In the world, wavy hair, go figure (http://nl.logilogi.org/HomE/WyboWiersma)

> Hi all,
> 
> I've been working on the versions-dropdown.

It looks great!

> I also found and fixed (at least momentainly) a malfunction of the
> logilogi-link in IE. When the right side was clicked, the href of the
> link would be triggered and you wont see the link box. I added "return
> false;" to the link href and I added
> ; to the first half of the link.
> I'm sorry this was not working right on IE :(

np. 

> The code needed to be added is the following:
> 
> Add to the logilogi-link: 
> add to the first_half_link: ;
> 
> Both the versions-dropdown and the logilogi-lonk fixed can be tested
> here: http://overbits.com/logilogi/index_current_gui.html

They work well, except for the fact that the links in the drop-down
don't seem to be clickable, as well as the link to the version currently
shown. The =v6 should be linking to the current location, so people
can copy the link as a permalink.

> I did what I could with the javascript, and didn't played much with
> colors on the versions-dropdown. Wybo, what would be the background of
> this box? are them received?

The colors are good.

> Also, this versions-dropdown could be placed in the requested url
> (aldought at the moment the current version returns false when
> clicked, so the force=true won't work). This dropdown will also work
> for @ and =i easily.

Cool.

> I'm afraid won't have time to work on Tuesday and Wednesday, but I
> will commit the changes when we are sure how to display this (colors
> and others).

Will you have time to make the links clickable, and to commit the
changes or should I ? I think it would be fair if you get the credits
of committing the code.

I will this afternoon be working on adding a google-maps feature
showing the locations of users on the globe. I have to make a Google-
maps meshup for a course anyway, so I'd better make it usefull for
Manta.

Wybo

> Later.
> 
> -- 
> Bruno

On 2/19/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> Last friday I met the students from Nijmegen who will be in the Manta-
> team for the coming months. Three of them will be coding with us (of
> whom Charl was already in the irc-channel), and two will be doing the
> usability-research. Welcome!
>

I've already introduced myself shortly at the #logilogi. I'm new to
logilogi and been helping out Wybo with some html and css coding. I'm
very interested in designing a user-friendly UI for LL. I'd be glad to
help out with anything you all might need. Welcome aboard!

> Today I added PrefsProfile-editing and -selection. Now all core logic
> of Manta is accessable through the UI. Though many things still have
> to be added, like an interface to add users to usergroups.
>
It looks great! is really cool to be able to change the preferences
and have different profiles.

> I will be cleaning up the logi's left from the testing tomorrow, and I
> might also already start the voting-power-distribution-deamon...
>
> greetings,
>
> Wybo
>

Later.

-- 
Bruno

Hi all,

I've been working on the versions-dropdown.

I also found and fixed (at least momentainly) a malfunction of the
logilogi-link in IE. When the right side was clicked, the href of the
link would be triggered and you wont see the link box. I added "return
false;" to the link href and I added
; to the first half of the link.
I'm sorry this was not working right on IE :(

The code needed to be added is the following:

Add to the logilogi-link: 
add to the first_half_link: ;

Both the versions-dropdown and the logilogi-lonk fixed can be tested
here: http://overbits.com/logilogi/index_current_gui.html

I did what I could with the javascript, and didn't played much with
colors on the versions-dropdown. Wybo, what would be the background of
this box? are them received?
Also, this versions-dropdown could be placed in the requested url
(aldought at the moment the current version returns false when
clicked, so the force=true won't work). This dropdown will also work
for @ and =i easily.

I'm afraid won't have time to work on Tuesday and Wednesday, but I
will commit the changes when we are sure how to display this (colors
and others).

Later.

-- 
Bruno

Last friday I met the students from Nijmegen who will be in the Manta-
team for the coming months. Three of them will be coding with us (of
whom Charl was already in the irc-channel), and two will be doing the 
usability-research. Welcome!

Today I added PrefsProfile-editing and -selection. Now all core logic 
of Manta is accessable through the UI. Though many things still have
to be added, like an interface to add users to usergroups.

I will be cleaning up the logi's left from the testing tomorrow, and I
might also already start the voting-power-distribution-deamon...

greetings,

Wybo

> Ok, we knew it and what concerns me now, is what could we do to make
> Manta more usable for Fosdem. We've already talked about some place
> where the most basic things could be explained so to get people to
> understand the basic concepts faster. This could be the colors meaning
> (requested, received, logi), the URL elements meanings (tags NOT
> folders, @=, i=, v=), and so... I mean, in a very schematic way, in a
> clearly visible area, always visible.

Would be cool to have this in place before the Fosdem, though the
prefs-profile editing/creation, and selection is still not implemented
either, and as Fosdem mostly attracts developers, we could get away
with something less self-explanatory than for Alfa's.

So we could first go for mouse-overs (but one's showing such a legenda
possibly).

Also cool to have would be a drop-down for version-selection.

> I also thought about having the logilogi-links colored all time, and
> maybe think on how to make this approach not too disruptive.

Different than blue, to make them distictive... Nice... although they
should be really unobtrusively colored, as there can be many, many
links in one document... 

A good idea!

> Also, the usability research will bring up a lot of light to this
> matter as you said, and it will bring up clarification on the way to
> approach the current usability problems.

Indeed, but the ideas you put forward here are good, and good to have 
before the usabillity research takes off.

> I've been thinking of ways of solving some of the usability problems,
> but got stuck most of the time because of my lack of knowledge about
> Manta theory background. I feel I'm currently playing a small
> technical role in Manta, where I change things as they are committed,
> as this are the priorities. As I've mentioned before, I will create my
> (personal) approach to the UI layout when I get to know better all the
> components behind Manta. Also, it would be great to have the usability
> research results.

We should get together on skype/ekiga after the weekend!

> >    way they are on purpose. I really don't like the negativistic tone
> >    of this view, but nevertheless; what if there is truth in it...?
> 
> Why don't we discuss about this at LogiLogi.org? LogiLogi-Manta?

Because it's not the best content to be the first on a site like
ours... We can better start with something less explosive...

> > Anyway Rik Peters also proposed to get the big names in the Philosophy
> > of History together (after Manta is completely stable, and the UI is
> > more usable), and to offer them a chance of expressing their vision in
> > a Logi-document. According to him this could be feasable, and if so,
> > there might be a great top-down opportunity for Manta too!
> 
> Exelente oportunity! Lot's of things comming up!

Indeed!

I was yesterday evening at the perl-mongers-meeting and in two months
I can give a presentation about Ruby on Rails and Manta there too!

I'm off to Nijmegen now!,

Wybo

On 2/14/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> The Presentation of LogiLogi Manta for the Center for Metahistory went
> well!
>
> In about forty minutes I explained the virtues of Manta to the people
> present; which were mostly jounger philosophers of history, though a
> few more seasoned figures like Rik Peters and the wife of professor
> Ankersmit (Ankersmit is one of the most erudite philosophers of
> history in the world), were also present.
>

Great! Congratz!


> They liked the idea, but they were a bit worried about two things:
> 1) Usabillity; it should be, or become really easy to use. We will try
>    to tackle this issue with the usabillity research of the people in
>    Nijmegen, and if our application makes it; with the funds from the
>    "Digitale Pioniers" programme. So this shouldn't be our greatest
>    concern, although it will nevertheless pose quite a challenge...
>

Ok, we knew it and what concerns me now, is what could we do to make
Manta more usable for Fosdem. We've already talked about some place
where the most basic things could be explained so to get people to
understand the basic concepts faster. This could be the colors meaning
(requested, received, logi), the URL elements meanings (tags NOT
folders, @=, i=, v=), and so... I mean, in a very schematic way, in a
clearly visible area, always visible.

I also thought about having the logilogi-links colored all time, and
maybe think on how to make this approach not too disruptive.

Also, the usability research will bring up a lot of light to this
matter as you said, and it will bring up clarification on the way to
approach the current usability problems.
I've been thinking of ways of solving some of the usability problems,
but got stuck most of the time because of my lack of knowledge about
Manta theory background. I feel I'm currently playing a small
technical role in Manta, where I change things as they are committed,
as this are the priorities. As I've mentioned before, I will create my
(personal) approach to the UI layout when I get to know better all the
components behind Manta. Also, it would be great to have the usability
research results.


> 2) Existing power structures; the people with important positions in
>    the humanities could consider what we are doing as potentially too
>    disruptive. Many projects - even just digitalization projects - have
>    stranded on this. Accordingly the impediments on sharing information
>    and the intransparent procedures as they are now, would be kept the
>    way they are on purpose. I really don't like the negativistic tone
>    of this view, but nevertheless; what if there is truth in it...?
>


Why don't we discuss about this at LogiLogi.org? LogiLogi-Manta?


> To this I answered with what I see as the purpose of Manta:
>
> Namely to create an informal sphere for insightfull discussions that
> can be thought of as fitting between the conversation and the journal-
> paper. And thus it's not meanth to replace of even to directly compete
> with journals. Manta intends to become a different life-form, to speak
> with Wittgenstein, that is orthogonal towards journals.
>
> Nevertheless we have to be aware that Manta could, or will, create
> a sphere of philosophical and humanities-related debate more vibrant
> journals can ever offer. And this could - on the long run - place us
> opposite to journals.
>
> Also we should not forget that there might be, or are, many bright
> people who are (being) shunned away from the humanities, especially
> because of things like the ones referred to above as worry 2 - which
> I, if honest, would be inclined to call plain instances of corruption.
>
> And thus there might be a moral side to Manta too. One that we might
> not want to ignore.
>
> Anyway Rik Peters also proposed to get the big names in the Philosophy
> of History together (after Manta is completely stable, and the UI is
> more usable), and to offer them a chance of expressing their vision in
> a Logi-document. According to him this could be feasable, and if so,
> there might be a great top-down opportunity for Manta too!
>


Exelente oportunity! Lot's of things comming up!


> greetings,
>
> Wybo Wiersma
>
> PS: I put the slides of the presenation online at (it's in Dutch):
> http://www.logilogi.org/pub/PresentatieVoorHetCMG/PresentatieVoorHetCMG.html
>
> PPS: This week I will try to get the logic done needed for enabling
> the deletion of logi's.
>


Later.

--

Bruno

I just added deleting-functionality... Users, user-group-admins and
the site-admin can now delete the pages over which they have rights.

Having something like trash-can-functionality later on would be great,
but for now plain and simple deletes...

I will be away for the weekend. But before that I'll be meeting the
5 students in Nijmegen that will be collaborating with us on Manta 
(the usability-research among other things) for the weeks to come.

And I just submitted the Fosdem-presentation...

Wybo Wiersma

The Presentation of LogiLogi Manta for the Center for Metahistory went
well!

In about forty minutes I explained the virtues of Manta to the people 
present; which were mostly jounger philosophers of history, though a
few more seasoned figures like Rik Peters and the wife of professor
Ankersmit (Ankersmit is one of the most erudite philosophers of 
history in the world), were also present.

They liked the idea, but they were a bit worried about two things:
1) Usabillity; it should be, or become really easy to use. We will try
   to tackle this issue with the usabillity research of the people in
   Nijmegen, and if our application makes it; with the funds from the
   "Digitale Pioniers" programme. So this shouldn't be our greatest
   concern, although it will nevertheless pose quite a challenge...

2) Existing power structures; the people with important positions in 
   the humanities could consider what we are doing as potentially too
   disruptive. Many projects - even just digitalization projects - have
   stranded on this. Accordingly the impediments on sharing information
   and the intransparent procedures as they are now, would be kept the 
   way they are on purpose. I really don't like the negativistic tone
   of this view, but nevertheless; what if there is truth in it...?

To this I answered with what I see as the purpose of Manta:

Namely to create an informal sphere for insightfull discussions that
can be thought of as fitting between the conversation and the journal-
paper. And thus it's not meanth to replace of even to directly compete 
with journals. Manta intends to become a different life-form, to speak 
with Wittgenstein, that is orthogonal towards journals.

Nevertheless we have to be aware that Manta could, or will, create 
a sphere of philosophical and humanities-related debate more vibrant
journals can ever offer. And this could - on the long run - place us
opposite to journals.

Also we should not forget that there might be, or are, many bright
people who are (being) shunned away from the humanities, especially
because of things like the ones referred to above as worry 2 - which
I, if honest, would be inclined to call plain instances of corruption.

And thus there might be a moral side to Manta too. One that we might
not want to ignore.

Anyway Rik Peters also proposed to get the big names in the Philosophy
of History together (after Manta is completely stable, and the UI is 
more usable), and to offer them a chance of expressing their vision in 
a Logi-document. According to him this could be feasable, and if so, 
there might be a great top-down opportunity for Manta too!

greetings,

Wybo Wiersma

PS: I put the slides of the presenation online at (it's in Dutch):
http://www.logilogi.org/pub/PresentatieVoorHetCMG/PresentatieVoorHetCMG.html

PPS: This week I will try to get the logic done needed for enabling
the deletion of logi's.

> Wybo,
> 
> I'm trying to compare the css, and I'm a little messed up... I think
> there is a problem since I made the versions problem last time...
> 
> I've checked out the version 222, and the logilogi.css has the
> duplicated content.

This is strange. I just double-checked, and - unless I missed
some duplicated content - the current version does not contain the
duplication anymore as of version 216.

The log of the svn-repository also confirms this: 
http://logilogi.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/logilogi/trunk/public/stylesheets/logilogi.css?view=log

(notice how it goes from 21k bytes to 12k between versions 215 and 
216).

Maybe double-check your download ?

> I'd like to know if you have any suggestion before I commit.

Make sure everything you will be committing looks as expected in 
both IE and FF before committing, as most of the people who will 
be attending the presentation of tuesday are using IE...

Still, the pre-alpha that is currently online only get's updated 
if I run a script here, so a mistake now and then is not directly 
fatal...

greetings,

Wybo Wiersma

> Later.
> -- 
> Bruno

Wybo,

I'm trying to compare the css, and I'm a little messed up... I think
there is a problem since I made the versions problem last time...

I've checked out the version 222, and the logilogi.css has the
duplicated content.

I'd like to know if you have any suggestion before I commit.

Later.
-- 
Bruno

> I'm sorry I didn't got the time to make the new drafts promissed for
> some days ago. I don't forget the date and I'm also finishing other
> things in order to have time to spend on Manta the next days.

Ok. 

> Tomorrow is also my birthday (the 10th), so I might work during the morning.

After Uruguay yesterday and Europe's today in the IRC-channel hereby
also on the list: A Very Happy Birthday!

Wybo

> -- 
> Bruno

On 2/9/07, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> I just added Logi-ratings, -links, -properties links to the bottom
> of the document-footer. It's also possible now to modify document-
> restrictions if one has admin-rights for them at least :)
>
> I have been adding some small changes to the CSS in order to make
> these menu's work. I hope this is no problem for you Bruno ?
>
> It would be great if we can get your and Miguel's new improved link-drop-down
> menu (with the table-listing of links we spoke about) in before I give my
> presentation here in Groningen (this will be on the 13nd, in just 3 days)...
>
> Wybo

I'm sorry I didn't got the time to make the new drafts promissed for
some days ago. I don't forget the date and I'm also finishing other
things in order to have time to spend on Manta the next days.

Tomorrow is also my birthday (the 10th), so I might work during the morning.

-- 
Bruno