logilogi-list Mailing List for LogiLogi - Software Libre for the Web (Page 5)

Hi Wybo,

I'm sorry I didn't answer before.

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> A proposal is in:
>
> docs/ui-designs/UI_proposal_D_softblues_better_edit.svg

I think this solution will work very well. I also like it better than
the other option where the top-bar is lost. I think we help user not
to get lost if we preserve the top-bar.

By the way, about your BA at logilogi, it's already showing off! By
working on a real work at LL you see the needs, it's so great!

Great work Wybo!
-- 
Bruno

While implementing the removal of links, remarks, and such, I came
across the problem that currently the editing UI's are not very
consistent. There is especially a problem with the View, Edit, Insert
bar at the top of the logi.

I believe we came across this earlier, but not to this extent.

The core of the problem being that Remove and Settings are not in
there, while remove needs a further subdivision of what to remove,
links, remarks, or external links. And just showing the text and 
having users remove everything mixed, is problematic from a back-
end perspective... And in addition, settings doesn't need the text 
of the logi, so where to put the bar in that case ?

I've thought about several solutions. The main difficuly being that
we nest a logi inside the tabbed bar, when we insert a commenting 
logi, that for removing stuff, we need tabs at the top, and that for
settings we don't use the logi at all.

I think the solution could be to let go of having the UI display
nesting through an enclosing border on tabbed elements alltogether.
After all we already don't do nesting for the main-page recent logis,
and for the main selection-bar in the search, browse, and view modes.

A proposal is in:

docs/ui-designs/UI_proposal_D_softblues_better_edit.svg

(not in the trunk, but in docs, online here
http://logilogi.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/logilogi/docs/ui-designs/UI_proposal_D_softblues_better_edit.svg)

In it I updated the view and edit layers.

The basic idea is to add an edit tab to the main selection-bar, which
then has search, browse, view, and edit, and then have another tabbed
selection below that to edit the text, insert stuff, etc.

In order to allow users to find the way to inserting remarks and
links, there will be a button in the view (where now the view, edit
and insert-bar is) that takes one to insert remark directly.

In this way the editing-ui's can be more consistent, and easy to reach
at the same time. And not just that, it's also very easy to implement
given it consists of basic elements already used throughout the site.

I also created a simpler alternative, in which the main selection-bar
is not at the top while editing, and moving to edit also happens via
a button:

docs/ui-designs/UI_proposal_D_softblues_better_edit_simple.svg

http://logilogi.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/logilogi/docs/ui-designs/UI_proposal_D_softblues_better_edit_simple.svg

Let me know what you think of them.

I plan on implementing it (as of) tomorrow evening, before the 
Philosophers Rally of next week, so there is some hurry :)

Wybo

> Congratulations Wybo! I can imagine your happiness! It's very nice
> you'll be able to work on LL for your MA.

Ideed, really happy :)

Also have some more short-term news:

http://foundation.logilogi.org/2009/5/4/eating-my-thesis-on-logilogi

So we will put LogiLogi to the test for the coming months, and 
hopefully get a good discussion going too :)

Wybo

(I also fixed some small bugs over the weekend)

> Again, congratulations for all Wybo!!!
> 
> -- 
> Bruno

Congratulations Wybo! I can imagine your happiness! It's very nice
you'll be able to work on LL for your MA.

Again, congratulations for all Wybo!!!

-- 
Bruno

I am going to do Digital Humanities in London for the betterment of
LogiLogi and hopefully the world too, it's official now :)

http://foundation.logilogi.org/2009/4/28/logilogi-in-london-kings-college

Wybo

-- 

::Student:
- Informatiekunde (computer linguistics, IR, webtech), History and Philosophy
- Member of the Center for Metahistory Groningen (http://www.rug.nl/let/cmg)

::Free Software and Open Source Developer:
- Active in the LogiLogi Foundation (http://foundation.logilogi.org)
- http://www.LogiLogi.org, Cumulative, shared commenting, publication and 
                           idea sharing: Where insight comes together...

I am replying to the list, as it is also good to let Miguel and others
know...

> How is everything going? How was UK?

Rather well. The UK was simply said amazing. The atmosphere at Kings
College London was very good, and especially prof. McCarty is very
supportive of LogiLogi. Besides him, also John Bradley (of the Pliny
desktop system) and Michele Pasin (of CoHere; http://cohere.open.ac.uk) 
are located there.

So it truely is the center of the Digital Humanities.

Eventhough the department is located in a back-street, in a rather
unattratively looking building quite a walk away from the more
beautiful Strand Campus. Then again in terms of the general physical 
environment even that is nothing compared to Oxford where I was this 
last weekend at a gathering of the philosophy group of the British 
Mensa.

Its majestic colleges (we were in Wadham College: 
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/11/13000978_9299dcd489.jpg,
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1173/870297017_c5601f2d1c.jpg) with 
Harry Potter style halls, libraries and gardens, a 'New College' from 
the 17th century, and the whole intellectual community were a mind-
blowing experience. Simply academics paradise. Something like LogiLogi 
could never originate from there, as their posibilities for good f2f 
conversations, and productive idea-sharing are endless already.

Still, most of the mensans were to leave again after the weekend, and 
after a walk and a chat with the organizer, he asked me to give a 10-
minutes presentation on LogiLogi on the saturday evening. He and most
listeners were very positive, and the person of the web-team of the 
group said he would like a trial with LL as the discussion platform for
it's members!

So if all works out LL can soon start to serve a group of philosophers 
and philosophically interested people :)

> I'm happy that I've finally formated my laptop to Ubuntu-only! I'll
> <snap> 
> Right now I'm making the updates to the system and then I'll install
> logilogi repository locally so I can start again to make commits.

Good :)

> Other good news is that I went to work for some days to my ranch in
> Valizas and I took with me a truck battery and DC conversor from 12v
> to 19v to connect my laptop. The internet connection worked better
> than expected, far better than the connection I have in Montevideo, as
> it seems it saturated here and in Valizas there is good reception
> while there is not much demand, so, everything seems very favorable!
> I'll have to finish up some parts of the ranch before moving to work
> for many days, as it's very cold now here, so it needs to be hermetic
> and have some type of stove.

Neat! (I have a similar experience with higher internet-speeds at my 
mom's house in the country-side)

Here in Groningen (and UK) summer is coming around the corner now. And
before august I still need to finish two ba-theses...

> Can't wait to work again at LL. What do you see I can work at first?

The integration of the links/remarks/etc-removal system is something
that I still need to, and am going to finish.

An important thing to keep the community of users together would be
a system of e-mail notifications every month when new logis are added,
and a notification (max daily) of new comments and commenting logis to
authors of logis.

Also some IE-testing of the layout might be a good idea, especially
with an eye to IE8.

good that you are back & on Ubuntu now :),

Wybo

> greetings!
> 
> -- 
> Bruno

I just updated LogiLogi for Rails 2.3 and for Authlogic 2.0.

It should now be working fine again with the newest gems.

---

Will be leaving for London early tomorrowmorning. Will be there for a week. To
have a look at KCL university already, to meet up with some Free Software pplz 
I know from there, and to explore the place in general.

Wybo

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> First of all our paper (co-authored with Stefano David of the
> Discovery Project) to the ECAP09 in Barcelona has been accepted...!

Great news!! congratulations both!

> Also it would be cool to have a screen-cast / promo-movie some
> time... & stuff like weekly/monthly e-mail notifications are also
> a good thing, I think.

There is much to be done, I need to get the time for LL asap.

Again, congratulations!
-- 
Bruno

First of all our paper (co-authored with Stefano David of the
Discovery Project) to the ECAP09 in Barcelona has been accepted...!

Secondly I found some time for devving tonight, and added the 
following small fixes:
- user-names don't show up in the cloud anymore
- only positive votes are public now
- increased the font-size of the intro-message on the main-page
  (because I noted some pplz missing it)

Much still needs to be done and I hope I will be able to do this,
most notably adding the UI for removing links and remarks...

Also it would be cool to have a screen-cast / promo-movie some 
time... & stuff like weekly/monthly e-mail notifications are also
a good thing, I think.

greetings,

Wybo Wiersma

Hi all, I've some good news. Also for LogiLogi... (some of you know
this already...)

I will study Digital Humanities at Kings College London next year :)

This is a masters specificially targeting the application of IT to
Humanities-related (including Philosophical) questions and subjects...

Likely I will be able to use or improve LogiLogi as part of some
courses, and in any case I will learn much there that may well be
applied to LogiLogi...

Also after completing it I might find a PhD-place where I can work on
LogiLogi or projects similar to/inspired by it...

I'm working hard to complete my ba's now, so I have had less time for
LogiLogi in many cases, but I will try to make some improvements soon...

Wybo Wiersma

-- 
---

::Student:
- Informatiekunde (computer linguistics, IR, webtech), History and Philosophy
- Member of the Center for Metahistory Groningen (http://www.rug.nl/let/cmg)

::Free Software and Open Source Developer:
- Active in the LogiLogi Foundation (http://foundation.logilogi.org)
- http://www.LogiLogi.org, Cumulative, shared commenting, publication and
                           idea sharing: Where insight comes together...
- ComLinToo, a computational linguistics toolset written in Perl

I did a small commit yesterday that should make the rendering /
displaying of background images via MagickCorners faster, as it
now also uses the public/do (formerly public/cache) cache in
development mode after the first rendering.

(in production we still use the slightly modified cache.lua 
script with lighttpd + mod_magnet for even faster serving)

Wybo

I've made a start with integrating the removal of links and remarks
today. I will commit it when it's presentable. This might be two weeks
from now, as I'm again quite busy.

> > We were now in the Ruby and Rails developer room, so sadly no video
> > was made, and from what I remember no one was there who was 2 years
> > ago, but still quite some pplz, I'd say about 45 :)
> 
> Great that it all went well, and 45 people is far better than 2 years ago! :)

:)

Still then we had a video at least, which more pplz saw than would
have fitted in the room of this year.

> > were also assigned similarily. Though I was in a different hostel this
> > time (one to which one had entry after 24:00 :)
> 
> ooh, I see... ;)

Not having to climb throug windows and/or to sneak in behind the man
of the laundry-service was quite conventient :)

> > I'll be creating some more logilogi e-mail-senders, like a summary of
> > comments and remarks to one's logi's every month.
> 
> nice!

Will do that later this month too...

> > Also we maybe should have some tags shown with logis on the main page,
> > as some titles might seem out of context without the tags.
> 
> I agree with that...

Good, added a task for it.

> > Besides that there's also still some things that need to be hooked up
> > to our new UI, like diffs, and removing links and remarks.
> 
> Right, and we should focus on this to move on after. We are not far
> from getting all functionalities and move forward to enrich even more.

Indeed. It's like when we've done this ll is function-complete, and we
can start tweaking things and make a promo-screencast.

> On March I'll make a work plan and start with pending tasks.

Good :)

Wybo

> Greetings all!
> -- 
> Bruno

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> There's now 2 posts more, which I already wrote on thursday, but were
> auto-published over the weekend:
>
> http://foundation.logilogi.org/2009/2/7/body-builder-rails-plugin
> and
> http://foundation.logilogi.org/2009/2/6/magick-corners-rails-plugin
>
>
> Pplz actually were very interested in the plugins, especially in
> Thorny Form.
>
congratz Wybo!



>
> We were now in the Ruby and Rails developer room, so sadly no video
> was made, and from what I remember no one was there who was 2 years
> ago, but still quite some pplz, I'd say about 45 :)
>

Great that it all went well, and 45 people is far better than 2 years ago! :)


> were also assigned similarily. Though I was in a different hostel this
> time (one to which one had entry after 24:00 :)
>

ooh, I see... ;)

> I'll be creating some more logilogi e-mail-senders, like a summary of
> comments and remarks to one's logi's every month.
>

nice!

> Also we maybe should have some tags shown with logis on the main page,
> as some titles might seem out of context without the tags.
>

I agree with that...

> Besides that there's also still some things that need to be hooked up
> to our new UI, like diffs, and removing links and remarks.

Right, and we should focus on this to move on after. We are not far
from getting all functionalities and move forward to enrich even more.

On March I'll make a work plan and start with pending tasks.

Greetings all!
-- 
Bruno

Hi Bruno and others, I just wrote a blog-post on LL @ the FOSDEM:

http://foundation.logilogi.org/2009/2/9/fosdem-09-presentation-and-philosophers-rally

> > I just officially announced the first of three Rails Plugins over the
> > coming 3 days (texts are written already, but publication is spread
> > out over the days to spread the posts). The first is:
> > http://foundation.logilogi.org/2009/2/5/thorny-form-rails-plugin
> 
> Congratulations Wybo! that's a great unobstrusive javascript form spam
> protection for rails :)

:)

There's now 2 posts more, which I already wrote on thursday, but were
auto-published over the weekend:

http://foundation.logilogi.org/2009/2/7/body-builder-rails-plugin
and
http://foundation.logilogi.org/2009/2/6/magick-corners-rails-plugin

> > About the licensing; For now we will go with AGPL only, and when pplz
> > are interested in using them in non-AGPL apps they can contact us to
> > discuss other options (like option 3 of the previous mail).
>
> Looks like the way...

'k.

Pplz actually were very interested in the plugins, especially in 
Thorny Form.

> > Anyway, I'll be fixing some layout-issues with the presentation and
> > be polishing it a bit this evening, and then tomorrow I'll be leaving
> > the train-station for Brussels at 12:00. Back on monday.
>
> Best of the lucks with your presentations!

It went really well. Or at least fine. I was done exactly on time, 
so there was time for 3 questions which were also positive and
answerable :)

> > Will be a fascinating conference again I hope, and I'm really looking
> > forward to hearing from the pplz. there what they think of LogiLogi and
> > the 3 plugins.
> 
> specially the new version! looking forward those hackers views...
> also, maybe some one recognizes the changes from previous years?

We were now in the Ruby and Rails developer room, so sadly no video
was made, and from what I remember no one was there who was 2 years
ago, but still quite some pplz, I'd say about 45 :)

> > Sad that none of you could be there, but who knows next
> > year...
> 
> this makes me nostalgic, when we all went there in 2007 it was such a
> great experience for me, and the best from it was that we all meet in
> person there. We'll be seeing each other soon, I'd bet on that.

Indeed. While in Brussels I thought about our time 2 years ago on many
times. Especially as it all was in the same building, and the rooms
were also assigned similarily. Though I was in a different hostel this 
time (one to which one had entry after 24:00 :)

> > (I also added a donation-button to the Foundation site today by the
> > way)
> 
> good!
> 
> I'm happy for myself, to be back with energy to work in LL!

Cool :) And great to hear all is well.

I'll be creating some more logilogi e-mail-senders, like a summary of
comments and remarks to one's logi's every month.

Also we maybe should have some tags shown with logis on the main page,
as some titles might seem out of context without the tags.

Besides that there's also still some things that need to be hooked up
to our new UI, like diffs, and removing links and remarks.

Wybo Wiersma

> Hi all,
> 
> A short summary about my last months absentee: I've been away from
> computers on vacations, but now I'm back again behind this monitor
> (almost) all day long :)

Great to see you here on the list again (& also in the other mail :)

Just gave the presentation; went well, een someone is going to use it
in Uni!

Talk starts now again, Will mail longer later,

:)

Wybo

Hi all,

A short summary about my last months absentee: I've been away from
computers on vacations, but now I'm back again behind this monitor
(almost) all day long :)

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:

> I just officially announced the first of three Rails Plugins over the
> coming 3 days (texts are written already, but publication is spread
> out over the days to spread the posts). The first is:
> http://foundation.logilogi.org/2009/2/5/thorny-form-rails-plugin
>

Congratulations Wybo! that's a great unobstrusive javascript form spam
protection for rails :)

> About the licensing; For now we will go with AGPL only, and when pplz
> are interested in using them in non-AGPL apps they can contact us to
> discuss other options (like option 3 of the previous mail).
>
Looks like the way...

> Anyway, I'll be fixing some layout-issues with the presentation and
> be polishing it a bit this evening, and then tomorrow I'll be leaving
> the train-station for Brussels at 12:00. Back on monday.
>
Best of the lucks with your presentations!

> Will be a fascinating conference again I hope, and I'm really looking
> forward to hearing from the pplz. there what they think of LogiLogi and
> the 3 plugins.

specially the new version! looking forward those hackers views...
also, maybe some one recognizes the changes from previous years?

> Sad that none of you could be there, but who knows next
> year...
>
this makes me nostalgic, when we all went there in 2007 it was such a
great experience for me, and the best from it was that we all meet in
person there. We'll be seeing each other soon, I'd bet on that.

> (I also added a donation-button to the Foundation site today by the
> way)

good!

I'm happy for myself, to be back with energy to work in LL!

so I'll see ya'll arround, greetings.

-- 
Bruno

Hi Bruno (just missed you two times in the #logilogi IRC channel), 
Miguel and others.

I just officially announced the first of three Rails Plugins over the
coming 3 days (texts are written already, but publication is spread 
out over the days to spread the posts). The first is: 
http://foundation.logilogi.org/2009/2/5/thorny-form-rails-plugin

About the licensing; For now we will go with AGPL only, and when pplz
are interested in using them in non-AGPL apps they can contact us to
discuss other options (like option 3 of the previous mail).

Anyway, I'll be fixing some layout-issues with the presentation and
be polishing it a bit this evening, and then tomorrow I'll be leaving
the train-station for Brussels at 12:00. Back on monday.

Will be a fascinating conference again I hope, and I'm really looking 
forward to hearing from the pplz. there what they think of LogiLogi and
the 3 plugins. Sad that none of you could be there, but who knows next
year...

Wybo

(I also added a donation-button to the Foundation site today by the
way)

Hi all, Hi Bruno and Miguel,

I'm almost at the point where we could release llCorners (now
MagickCorners; for rounded corners without a hassle) and Thorny 
Form (for capcha-free & spam-free forms) as Rails Plugins.

(In preparation for the FOSDEM-presentation next weekend)

And now I'm wondering what license we should give them. The current
being Affero GPL, and me being all for that license in general.

I've been thinking of some options:
1 - Keep Affero GPL, strict and pure, but maybe fewer users
2 - Go for MIT or GPL, more users, less freedom
3 - Go for a dual licensing scheme; AGPL at no cost, Single Server 
    Use for a small donation to the LogiLogi Foundation

I think we would help our cause best by going for option 3 or 1, but
might have a few more users with option 2.

Any opinions ?

Wybo

> Great to hear all this free news!
> As a user (as LogiLogi libs) I really think those are very useful,
> intuitive gems.

Good :) I will also be releasing 3 rails-plugins sometime the coming
weeks.

I just came back from an offline week on an island...

> Today I started my last semester as University student. I don't know
> if I will have a lot of time to code but LogiLogi will be in my first
> priorities (out of obligations).

Great! :) We especially still need to add the history view and the
removal of links and remarks & other UI/js fixes...

> Hope 2009 will be a great year to LogiLogi and the Free Software community.

I will be giving a talk at the Fosdem, in the Ruby Devroom, so that's
good news for a start :)

http://www.fosdem.org/2009/schedule/events/ror_logilogi

Wybo

> Happy new Year!
> 
> Miguel

Great to hear all this free news!
As a user (as LogiLogi libs) I really think those are very useful,
intuitive gems.

Today I started my last semester as University student. I don't know
if I will have a lot of time to code but LogiLogi will be in my first
priorities (out of obligations).

Hope 2009 will be a great year to LogiLogi and the Free Software community.

Happy new Year!

Miguel

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> LogiLogi now has 3 new dependencies;
> sudo gem install difflcs positionrange textweaver
>
> And there's a new blog-post:
> http://foundation.logilogi.org/2008/12/31/merry-gems-and-a-happy-new-year
>
> Yup, we finally released our libraries as gems :)
>
> greetings, and a Happy new Year,
>
> Wybo Wiersma
>
> PS: I hope you, Miguel and Bruno, are doing well.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> LogiLogi-list mailing list
> Log...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>

LogiLogi now has 3 new dependencies;
sudo gem install difflcs positionrange textweaver

And there's a new blog-post:
http://foundation.logilogi.org/2008/12/31/merry-gems-and-a-happy-new-year

Yup, we finally released our libraries as gems :)

greetings, and a Happy new Year,

Wybo Wiersma

PS: I hope you, Miguel and Bruno, are doing well.

I wish you all, Bruno, Miguel, Charl, David and others, a really,
really good Christmas and all :)

I'll be doing small fixes inbetween family stuff, but nothing really
radical. Also I might start releasing the libraries as gems when I
find the time...

Especially I'm also pondering on ways to improve things for users and
to seed ll among philosophers...

Anyway HoooHooo LogiLogi,
a Merry Manta Christmas,

Wybo Wiersma

---

::Student:
- Informatiekunde (computer linguistics, IR, webtech), History and Philosophy
- Member of the Center for Metahistory Groningen (http://www.rug.nl/let/cmg)

::Free Software and Open Source Developer:
- Active in the LogiLogi Foundation (http://foundation.logilogi.org)
- http://www.LogiLogi.org, Cumulative, shared commenting, publication and 
                           idea sharing: Where insight comes together...
- ComLinToo, a computational linguistics toolset written in Perl

I've added invites to peergroups, and a welcome-mail for new users
yesterday. LogiLogi is, I think, ready for more widespread use now.

So if there's anyone you haven't told about LogiLogi yet, then please
do so now :)

Also there's a new post on our blog:
http://foundation.logilogi.org/2008/12/11/grant-article-and-ready-for-use

> This money will be used for financing our hosting, and some development.
> 
> We still have to decide what exactly.

I was thinking of using most of it for our hosting bill, and then
maybe 100 Euro's or so for something you, Bruno or you, Miguel would
want to add to Manta...

Wybo

Some good news people! :)

The international OFSET foundation (http://www.ofset.org/) has decided
to sponsor LogiLogi for 500 Euro! :)

This money will be used for financing our hosting, and some development.

We still have to decide what exactly.

Comments are welcome!,

Wybo

PS: I will be working on the invites and the welcome-mail this week, so 
we can start spreading the word next week :)

LogiLogi has become a lot faster today. We have caching via lighttpd + 
mod_magnet as of today. This makes loading the generated background images
and - ... and! :) - RSS feeds, a lot faster.

Yes RSS feeds; as of this weekend LogiLogi features RSS ATOM feeds. Of 
new logis, recent canges, logis written by users, and rated positively 
by peergroups. We may add more feeds later on.

On the roll are now invites and a welcoming e-mail quickly explaining
the basics to new users... Then we can launch to a wider audience.

Wybo

PS: Bruno, your message to Georges has probably not arrived as he's on
a different list, so hereby I pass it on for you...

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 02:48:30PM -0300, Bruno Sarlo wrote:
> Georges,
> 
> I've read all your concerns and observations, all very on the same
> path we are working towards, and many requests or questions that
> arrise on other communities that are evaluating to use logilogi.
> 
> I believe we'll see a start on logilogi adoption on the following
> release, the two weeks Wybo's talking about.
> 
> Thanks for your observations Georges,
> 
> Greetings