logilogi-list Mailing List for LogiLogi - Software Libre for the Web (Page 4)

> Hi,
> 
> What's wrong with LogiLogi.org?

Our server was migrated to a faster machine while I was having my
goodbye-party, and the next morning I went to Montpellier, in southern
France, where I am now.

@all; As noted in my previous e-mail we are working on LL here, because
they (LIRMM-lab) want to use it for internal communication (discussing
their mission-statement among others).

These are the things we are working on:

Priority  Task               Days Who

1 - Installation & get going 0.5  All - W
1 - bugs & testing           1.5
1 - Anonymous users Mr Clown 0    W
2 - layout                   1.5  W
3 - alerts                   2    W Jalien
4 - chinese portraits        5    Seb Antoine
5 - account-generation       0.7  Lirmm
6 - visualisation

It's a really good atmophere here. Miguel, you might want to consider 
it as a place to do a PhD or something.

greetings,

Wybo

> Sina

Hi,

What's wrong with LogiLogi.org?

Sina

I finished my thesis on LogiLogi today (still needs some footnotes and
some images, so will change a bit more over time). I have already 
uploaded parts of it to LogiLogi. Will be putting the rest of it up 
soon.

After LogLog notifications work, and translations have been
implemented I hope to be adding 'read paths', which allow one to 
chain logi's together, so people can easily browse it.

In the meantime (ironically enough) a pdf is here:
http://en.logilogi.org/pub/beyond/paper.pdf

Tomorrow morning I will be going to the HAR gathering in the center
of the Netherlands (http://har2009.org). Will be informally presenting
LogiLogi there too.

Hope all is well,

Wybo

(sent this both to the LogiLogi mailing-list, and to you, M. Hornby 
of LIRMM)

As of now it is possible to add existing logis as comments.

I also fixed bug 2829800, which caused inserted commenting logis 
not to be attached to the selected text, resp. no error being thrown
if no text was selected.

Though I still have a question regarding the bug, see the comment:
https://sourceforge.net/support/tracker.php?aid=2829800

In search for a clearer term for them I renamed ll comments to 
replies, and the 'comments on'-tab to 'in teply to'. Hope this 
makes things a bit clearer.

We also have versioned perma-links in LogiLogi now, so people 
can now link to specific versions of logis.

And the link to 'browse all' when there are more than 3 contending
logis has now been moved to the bottom of the list. Hope this makes
it a bit clearer, though maybe we should make it into a button to
make it stand out more.

greetings,

Wybo

PS: Still working on my thesis on LL, but I finished early today 
with the chapter I scheduled to do... If I've more time this week
I will continue working on the LogLog notifications.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Wybo Wiersma<wy...@lo...> wrote:
> I've good news. The people from the Lirmm lab (http://www.lirmm.fr,
> one of the interested groups at the ECAP) have confirmed that they
> will be using and co-developing LogiLogi.
>

Great news Wybo! congratulations, one more time!!!

>
> It is separate - integrated via a REST-API - in order to keep
> LogiLogi clean, and as a first bit of LogiLogi that can function
> as a separate service.
>

Exellent! this is a big step for LL (and humanity :)

Thanks for all the news Wybo,

Cheers.
-- 
Bruno

I've good news. The people from the Lirmm lab (http://www.lirmm.fr,
one of the interested groups at the ECAP) have confirmed that they 
will be using and co-developing LogiLogi.

I will be in Montpellier between the 3rd and 10th of September
(just before moving to London), where I will be helping them with 
installation, and maybe some development.

(Miguel, if you're still in France it might be an opportunity to 
meet, and otherwise it might be interesting for you too)

---

Currently I am working on my last thesis (the one for philosophy).

As usual it became quite an ambitious project; it's about LogiLogi
and explains why philosophy will move (at least partially) beyond 
papers, what LogiLogi is, how it differs from other projects, and
what kind of philosophy is especially suitable for LogiLogi.

Expect the first Logis of it to appear on LogiLogi tomorrow.

---

I am also working on - what I have dubbed LogLog - a separate web-
app, super simple and small, for keeping track of changes on 
LogiLogi.

Initially it will support e-mail notifications and RSS feeds, but 
later on we could add other formats and twitter/identi.ca & FB 
support. So LogiLogi is connected.

It is separate - integrated via a REST-API - in order to keep 
LogiLogi clean, and as a first bit of LogiLogi that can function
as a separate service.

Wybo

> > If you Miguel or Bruno are interested in helping with these, or
> > discussing it, let me know...
> 
> Sure, you can count with my support/work, I'm willing to get back to
> logilogi tasks! (did I ever mention that? :)

'k :)

> Wybo, the API, presentations, all your work, amazing.
> 
> I'm learning Django on my new job, working on Sofware Libre too for a
> newspaper. So I'm becoming a bit more of a programmer each day,
> willing to get into Ruby back again soon!

Nice, never bad to learn Django too, as it's really similar to Rails.

> Congratz about all, and let me know if you need to get something done
> right away.
> 
> Greetings.
> 
> pd: could you get es.logilogi.org up like fr.ll.org? user accounts
> working and all? I have a coupple of friends interested on starting to
> write. Also, do we have the translation working? Let me know if you
> want me to work on this.

We will be moving LL to a dedicated server with more memory some time
in the coming weeks. Then it will become possible to set up the spanish
dutch and german versions too (Rails, though it is reasonably fast,
does have quite hefty memory requirements).

LogiLogi is not yet ready for translation since Rails has it's own
system for multilanguage support, so that's still a todo. First we
need some other improvements, such as feeds/mailings of changes...

Wybo

> -- 
> Bruno

Hi Wybo!

On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Wybo Wiersma<wy...@lo...> wrote:
>
> If you Miguel or Bruno are interested in helping with these, or
> discussing it, let me know...
>

Sure, you can count with my support/work, I'm willing to get back to
logilogi tasks! (did I ever mention that? :)

Wybo, the API, presentations, all your work, amazing.

I'm learning Django on my new job, working on Sofware Libre too for a
newspaper. So I'm becoming a bit more of a programmer each day,
willing to get into Ruby back again soon!

Congratz about all, and let me know if you need to get something done
right away.

Greetings.

pd: could you get es.logilogi.org up like fr.ll.org? user accounts
working and all? I have a coupple of friends interested on starting to
write. Also, do we have the translation working? Let me know if you
want me to work on this.
-- 
Bruno

I came home this morning.

> A quick hi from Barcelona. The presentation went well yesterday, and
> though the audience was not big, two of them were very interested in
> knowing more, and one at least in possibly cooperation & adding to 
> LL.

They were Jean Sallantin of Wiki-Debate (proposing his software team 
creates additions to LogiLogi for a large annotation experiment), and
Luc Schneider of the LiquidPub project.

Additionally I got contacted today by a large German philosophy
magazine, who want to use LogiLogi, and 'd like us to provide services
for it (hosting and adaptations).

If you Miguel or Bruno are interested in helping with these, or
discussing it, let me know...

> Will tell more about this on tuesday, when I come back. Will also
> write a blog post about the conference then.

The blog-post on the ECAP:
http://foundation.logilogi.org/2009/7/7/ecap-09-and-video-from-last-year

greetings,
 
Wybo Wiersma

A quick hi from Barcelona. The presentation went well yesterday, and
though the audience was not big, two of them were very interested in
knowing more, and one at least in possibly cooperation & adding to 
LL.

Will tell more about this on tuesday, when I come back. Will also
write a blog post about the conference then.

greetings,

Wybo

A simple LL API just went public:
http://foundation.logilogi.org/2009/6/29/simple-api

Also the day after tomorrow I will travel to the ECAP09 conference, 
to give a presentation on LL.

Wybo

As I have nearly finished my thesis for history, I am about to start
with the one on LogiLogi now. Still I think it will be good if I use
any free evenings to - apart from fixes and some of the small 
improvements listed below - add at least one thing to LL this summer:

A mailer/twitter-bot/facebook-bot. Even as LogiLogi basically is just 
being used by me and a friend, keeping track of comments, remarks and 
new logis already proves to be hard, and much harder than it should be.

Thus the idea is to create a simple tool that takes care of 
notifications of changes and additions via e-mail, twitter, and maybe
also Facebook. 

In the interest of simplicity and modularity I think of creating it as 
a simple second web-app that we can run on the old OgOg.org domain-
name, and to which from the LL source notifications of changes and 
additions can be sent which it then can turn into a (weekly) mailing, 
immediate tweet, etc...

In addition to making tracking changes easier for users (making LL
practical for the first time), it could also create a ripple-effect, 
as people reading about logis being created on their friends facebook-
pages and twitter-streams might feel an itch to remark, etc...

Other, smaller additions could be:
- allowing the addition of footnotes to literature
- adding read-paths, so people can navigate chains of logis
- add the linking to specific logis and logi-versions to UI
- adding existing logis as comments, and removing comments
- add pagination to user page logis and comments-listing
- allow for the UI to be translated using Rails system
- add correct pluralization to UI-texts
- help-tooltips
- creating a screencast

I've added all these as tasks to the tracker:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=78643&atid=898717

And as you, Bruno, wanted to do the help-tooltips, I've so far
reserved it for you.

greetings,

Wybo

> >  access key to the user's account UI yet, but will do that when I've
> >  created the gem for the consumer-side.
> 
> all working like a charm... :)

:)

> >  Also I fixed a small js-issue with the dropdown button, so it is now
> 
> ok, didn't know about that problem. good you fixed it.

np.

> >  fully working, and used to select peergroups. Good work Bruno :)
> 
> good, but please, my contribution was minimum :)
> 
> I'll find something else to go on with, maybe Help section and help
> icons for tooltips?

Could be good, yes.

Wybo

> -- 
> Bruno

On 6/8/09, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> I just committed the basics for the API. Haven't added the needed
>  access key to the user's account UI yet, but will do that when I've
>  created the gem for the consumer-side.

all working like a charm... :)

>  Also I fixed a small js-issue with the dropdown button, so it is now

ok, didn't know about that problem. good you fixed it.

>  fully working, and used to select peergroups. Good work Bruno :)
>

good, but please, my contribution was minimum :)

I'll find something else to go on with, maybe Help section and help
icons for tooltips?

-- 
Bruno

> Wybo,
> 
> Sorry I didn't commit the images, now they are there.
> 
> Looking forward for the API!!! great!

I just committed the basics for the API. Haven't added the needed
access key to the user's account UI yet, but will do that when I've
created the gem for the consumer-side.

Note that LogiLogi now also requires the ratom gem, and libxml2.

Also I fixed a small js-issue with the dropdown button, so it is now
fully working, and used to select peergroups. Good work Bruno :)

greetings,

Wybo

Wybo,

Sorry I didn't commit the images, now they are there.

Looking forward for the API!!! great!

On 6/7/09, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> I will most likely commit a simple API tomorrow, together with a
> simple script for synchonizing latex-documents to LogiLogi (mostly
> for my own use).
>
> I've also seen the new dropdown being committed. Cool you got it to
> work Bruno!
>
> Still, it currently does not have a background-image, while one is
> mentiones in the CSS. Did you miss it on the commit, or are you still
> working on it ?
>
> Wybo
>
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-- 
Bruno

I will most likely commit a simple API tomorrow, together with a
simple script for synchonizing latex-documents to LogiLogi (mostly 
for my own use).

I've also seen the new dropdown being committed. Cool you got it to 
work Bruno!

Still, it currently does not have a background-image, while one is
mentiones in the CSS. Did you miss it on the commit, or are you still
working on it ?

Wybo

I just updated LogiLogi, after a few major bugfixes and additions.

Check out: http://www.logilogi.org

Most importantly we have commenting logis now that don't have tags,
and can be added at the bottom of a logi, as from feedback of Kalle 
van der Wal, and my own experience, it appeared that having to set 
tags for every commenting logi, and having to insert it somewhere 
can prohibit commenting.

Soon I will add functionality for adding existing logis as comments
and for linking to untagged commenting logis (and to specific logis, 
and versions of logis).

Also we now have 'contending logis', 'comments on', and 'incoming 
links' as tabs on a side-menu, simplifying the UI a bit.

Additionally a bug was fixed in the diffing, and in general the UI,
button-icons, etc have been beefed up a bit. So far only tested in 
firefox, but I will test and tweak it in IE soon.

But first I will create a very simple API, for exporting and updating
logis, so it is easier to edit them from one's own editor, and as part
of a larger work (like my thesis).

Besides I am thinking about adding read-paths to logilogi, so one can
also chain logis together (again to accomodate the thesis).

And also there's still the idea of the twitterbot,

Comments and ideas welcome,

Wybo

PS: A disadvantage of having the comments at the bottom, opened via
AJAX is that we now include tinymce for every page, also for just
viewing a page. This means that there is an additional 130k of JS to
download for visitors. But I haven't found a way yet to make the js
to only load when the ajax call is made, AND work. Though there surely
must be a way.

I fixed a nasty error involving the disappearance of :format from
generated urls in Rails 2.3.2, causing Magick Corners to break down
with "No delegate for this image format"-errors (because there was
no format in the file-name anymore).

All should be working now.

---

I was wondering what you people think of changing the license of
some/all gems and plugins to plain GPLv3.

Pro's are that they might get used more often, and thus would create
something of an ecosystem of patches/etc. As they are really useful
plugins.

Con's are the reduced attraction to Affero GPLing their own apps, but
then again the FSF also introduced the LGPL for libraries, undercutting
the GPL.

Just re-licensing some gems/plugins as an experiment might also be a
good idea.

---

What do you people think of adding a Twitter/Laconi.ca bot for
LogiLogi ? So one can be kept up to date with all comments and remarks
that one's logis receive ?

I could at least imagine it to be handy, and am thinking about
implementing an event-handler (besides tweets, also producing e-mails 
and RSS-feeds) as a rails-plugin.

Wybo

LogiLogi is now ready for Rails 2.3.2. 

Passes all tests, and did some basic UI testing. Should work now 
with the latest Rails & gems.

Wybo

> > inside the wrapper-divs of the standard height. This will look like
> > proper centralisation (and it is possible, as there are only 5 tag-
> > sizes).
>
> Ok, I've been doing some tests and it's not that easy, since when
> adding margins it adds height so the lines are not anymore of the same
> height, so they snap to other line's tags. Anyway, I'll work on this.

I see. Did a little test myself too, and indeed...

> > I will be working on the removal of remarks, links, etc. again this
> > evening late and/or tomorrow evening.
> 
> looking forward for this!

Just committed it. Kept it relatively simple, but functional. 

Hope it works cross-browser (I will fix my Virtualbox setup one of
these days...)

Next on the agenda is an API, and notification feeds and mails.

greetings,

Wybo

> later...
> -- 
> Bruno

On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:>
> Maybe, by the way, we may sove the vertical centering of tags in the
> cloud-problem by giving the various tag-sizes various top-margins
> inside the wrapper-divs of the standard height. This will look like
> proper centralisation (and it is possible, as there are only 5 tag-
> sizes).
>
Ok, I've been doing some tests and it's not that easy, since when
adding margins it adds height so the lines are not anymore of the same
height, so they snap to other line's tags. Anyway, I'll work on this.

> I will be working on the removal of remarks, links, etc. again this
> evening late and/or tomorrow evening.

looking forward for this!

later...
-- 
Bruno

> > I just finished doing the refactoring. I also already partially
> > implemented the removal of things from logis, but as quite some
> > refactoring of some old removal-code is needed before it can be
> > made to work fully, I disabled it for now with a 'coming soon'
> > message.
> 
> This works very well as it is, nice!

I'm looking forward to next week or so, when it is gone, and it is
possible to remove links and remarks :)

> > :) Indeed; really looking forward to how things will work out after my
> > presentation tomorrow, and after I've written some more.
> >
> > Leaving tomorrow morning really early (06:30),
> 
> may the force be with you! :)

:)

It was a nice conference & also good to meet Charl:

http://foundation.logilogi.org/2009/5/15/logilogi-at-the-philosophers-rally

> > PS: Still thinking about where to put the 'new logi', under edit
> > or under it's own tab.
>
> Certainly, hard to decide. I would go for putting it on the tabs, and
> maybe would say "create" to follow the meaning of tabs.

'k Agree with this... :)

> Willing to start making small commits soon!!!

Saw one already comming in yesterday; good work!

Maybe, by the way, we may sove the vertical centering of tags in the
cloud-problem by giving the various tag-sizes various top-margins
inside the wrapper-divs of the standard height. This will look like 
proper centralisation (and it is possible, as there are only 5 tag-
sizes).

I will be working on the removal of remarks, links, etc. again this
evening late and/or tomorrow evening.

Wybo

> greetings.
> -- 
> Bruno

> I just finished doing the refactoring. I also already partially
> implemented the removal of things from logis, but as quite some
> refactoring of some old removal-code is needed before it can be
> made to work fully, I disabled it for now with a 'coming soon'
> message.
>

This works very well as it is, nice!

> :) Indeed; really looking forward to how things will work out after my
> presentation tomorrow, and after I've written some more.
>
> Leaving tomorrow morning really early (06:30),

may the force be with you! :)

> PS: Still thinking about where to put the 'new logi', under edit
> or under it's own tab.
>

Certainly, hard to decide. I would go for putting it on the tabs, and
maybe would say "create" to follow the meaning of tabs.

Willing to start making small commits soon!!!

greetings.
-- 
Bruno

> I'm sorry I didn't answer before.

np.

> > docs/ui-designs/UI_proposal_D_softblues_better_edit.svg
> 
> I think this solution will work very well. I also like it better than
> the other option where the top-bar is lost. I think we help user not
> to get lost if we preserve the top-bar.

'k.

I just finished doing the refactoring. I also already partially
implemented the removal of things from logis, but as quite some
refactoring of some old removal-code is needed before it can be 
made to work fully, I disabled it for now with a 'coming soon' 
message.

I will continue implementing the removal after the Philosophers 
Rally.

> By the way, about your BA at logilogi, it's already showing off! By
> working on a real work at LL you see the needs, it's so great!

:) Indeed; really looking forward to how things will work out after my
presentation tomorrow, and after I've written some more.

Leaving tomorrow morning really early (06:30),

Wybo

PS: Still thinking about where to put the 'new logi', under edit 
or under it's own tab.

> Great work Wybo!
> -- 
> Bruno