Re: [LogiLogi-list] On a simplification of tags: smart lattice

> Hi Wybo,
> 
> I really like this aproach, we are injecting simplicity and
> flexibility to LL and this is esential for usability, we are heading
> the right way.

:)

> I'm already having some visions :) about the UI for this and I'd like
> to ask some details... As from your link example, I see that there
> will be giving the user the posibility to add either content or
> context tags (in the old concept)... I think this should also be the
> way to navigate through logis, and I'll make a graphical proposal
> about this.

Hm, the idea here is/was that for navigation we only need one cloud,
with a reset-button, to remove the accumulated tags in the query.

As apart from the exact-tag-order matches, tag-order does not matter
any more for the navigation with this smart-lattice approach.

That was/is how it is supposed to be simpler :)

But I'm looking forward to your UI-proposal,

Wybo

> Back to the IRC now :)
> 
> greetings!
> 
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 7:51 AM, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> >
> > After another IRC-conversation with Bruno, I think we can make things
> > even simpler, without losing important features & while gaining a lot
> > of clarity...
> >
> > What if for the navigation we used a normal concept-lattice: that is
> > have only one type of tags, while still giving logis a fixed tag-order,
> > and telling the user the first tag is most important.
> >
> > First the concept lattice will:
> > * Make the cloud fuller even with little content, as all tags are used
> >  inside it
> > * Make finding things easier, as Aristotle, History and History,
> >  Aristotle would show up when browsing to History, Aristotle.
> >
> > Secondly the fixed tag-order for the logi's link will
> > * Provide stabillity, and via links induce sensible tagging by default.
> >
> > This because when adding a link we could show 2 options to the user:
> >
> > * To a more specific sub-tag
> >
> > Aristotle , Philosophy , |_     | (user can key in Ethics for example)
> >
> > * Or to somewhere else
> >
> > |_     | , Philosophy (user can key in Sartre)
> >
> > (and there is a reset sub-tags button)
> >
> > Also when navigating there can be - behind the scenes - 2 searches.
> > One for the exact tag-order "History, Aristotle", and one for the tags
> > in any order, and with other sub-tags if needed...
> >
> > Results from this first search will then always be shown first, no
> > matter their rating, followed by the other results.
> >
> > The advantage of this smart lattice-approach is that to the user it
> > just are tags, plain and simple, and in the search-layer too, so we
> > just need one cloud there, while the specialization of logis is still
> > possible and easy, and their locations rather stable...
> >
> > What do you Bruno & others think of this ?
> >
> > greetings,
> >
> > Wybo
> >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > Besides that I have been thinking about the context-content links
> > > stuff and about how complicated it all is to unsuspecting visitors, so
> > > we (Bruno and I) 'd like to make it simpler...
> > >
> > > What I'd like to propose is first of all to - for now again - only
> > > allow one tag-set per logi... Something like 'Aristotle, History, Life'
> > >
> > > This tag-set will be the fixed location of the logi, and still multiple
> > > logis can have the same tag-set (that is there still are contenders).
> > >
> > > Also still some tags are more important than others, that is we still
> > > have content- and context-tags, but for clarity we could call them the
> > > primary tag, and context-tags.
> > >
> > > Users visiting LogiLogi will, on the mainpage see a cloud with all
> > > primary tags, so at least Aristotle in this example.
> > >
> > > Then, they can click a primary tag, giving them the url /Aristotle.
> > > They then will see a new, smaller cloud, below the url, on the right.
> > > In this cloud the context-tags are shown (History and Life in this
> > > example). Below the url on the left are snippets of all logis that
> > > have Aristotle as their primary tag, sorted by their rating (for the
> > > user's selected peergroup). Visitors can click on one immediately.
> > >
> > > When they like to narrow their search, they can also click one of the
> > > context-tags in the smaller cloud (for example Life), and then a new
> > > query is made, showing only the logis that have Aristotle as their
> > > primary tag, and Life as one of their context-tags.
> > >
> > > The 2 assumptions behind this proposal are
> > > - that people, when looking for a page start vague, but with the
> > >   subject, and then narrow down accordingly.
> > > - that it's good to keep things entity oriented; to draw different
> > >   Logi's on each subject (like Aristotle) together, and to keep things
> > >   easily navigatable... This should lead to interesting discussions.
> > >
> > > In this proposal there will still be requested and received url-bars
> > > in the logi-view, but not in the search-view. In the logi-view (also
> > > shown when there is only one logi for a set of searched for tags &
> > > no logi's below it in the tree) the requested url-bar will contain the
> > > tags of the query, while the received url-bar will contain the tags
> > > used when the logi was created (also in the order then used). Some-
> > > times this can be more (or less, when the user typed them directly)
> > > tags than were in the query.
> > >
> > > This allows new people to - when creating new logis - put things in
> > > the same or simmilar places as earlier logis, thereby making it easier
> > > to keep things clean than not...
> > >
> > > To make this even stronger, also when adding links to a logi, by
> > > default the context tags of the logi being added are already filled in
> > > for the new link. So a link from Aristotle, History to Socrates, will,
> > > without user-interaction be to Socrates, History. This; be it that it
> > > is in reversed tag-order now, was something that really worked well in
> > > the old version of LogiLogi, but now, with easy navigation it will
> > > work even better!
> > >
> > > An additional advantage of this approach is that we can use Ferret (or
> > > a better search lib) for most of the searching with this method, so it
> > > will also scale very well... (the only moderately slow thing will be
> > > the generation of the clouds).
> > >
> > > Fully implementing & testing this proposal in the back-end will take,
> > > I think between 1 and 2 weeks, so not too bad either.
> > >
> > > I will do some more pondering about it, but I was just wondering what
> > > you pplz (Bruno, Miguel & the others) think of it...
> > >
> > > Wybo
> > >
> > > PS: Yup it will be primary-tag first, instead of primary tag last, as
> > > was currently the case in the url & in the old version of LogiLogi. I
> > > was still thinking about it the other way when we chatted yesterday
> > > Bruno, but I guess some things you said, changed my mind...
> >
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> 
> 
> --
> Bruno
> 
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