Re: [LogiLogi-list] Gui-design and development.

Hi again!

it was a busy weekend ;)

On 11/11/06, Wybo Wiersma <wy...@lo...> wrote:
> First of all welcome to you Miguel, I've already heared much good
> about you from Bruno.
>
> If you want to get developer-access to the site you can send me your
> user-name and I'll add you.
>
Miguel! apareceee!!!

> Bruno, my reply is a bit later than it would have been had I not woke
> up this morning with one swollen eye-lid, making it risky to use my
> contact-lenses. It's getting better now, but still it's quite strange,
> as I never had this before...
>
Hope you are doing better.

> I think we can better discuss these things over the mailinglist now
> Miguel joined, and also in general, because some others might be
> interested in it too, and as long as we use meaningfull subject-
> lines, others can easily skip the messages... So I replied to the
> list.
>
Of course.

First of all, I've been very untidy with the html code, I mixed up
your id's and classes and at first mixed up the colors, but this was
because I was testing in a fast way.
I'd like to start to organize the UI design process at
http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiManta_GUI as you suggested.

I'll work on a more tidy draft and publish it.

> > >On integration it has to be the possible to only fill the div if the
> > >link is clicked, but this is no problem I think.
> >
> > Ok, so loaded with Ajax. There should not be a problem with this.
>
> Nice.
>
> > >I agree with you that we should also find some other way - like roll-
> > >over help - besides relying on the colors only for meaning.
> > >
> > >A minor issue is that the colors got mixed (green is requested now,
> > >for the top-bar at least)...
> >
> > Ok, sorry about that, I got mixed. I got mixed before working on the
> > link, when I was working on the header. I started to work on migrating
> > some tables to divs, what do you think about it? (no tables for
> > design, just to order tabular info). The header also doesn't have a
> > background image anymore, the tags are list items, what do you think
> > about this?
>
> Really nice!, even twice ;)
>
> > (this is answered later in this mail, thanks! ;)
> >
> > >Actually blue is for the requested, and green for the received
> > >concepts, and white/greyish for the logi. The background-coloring
> > >of the link is a good idea, but we have to make it different colors
> > >than the ones for requested and received to prevent confusion.
> >
> > Ok, I just thought that there really is a parallelism between the link
> > colors and the navigation or ubication colors. I also thought that in
> > the top_bar there could be a dropdown menu that could show other logis
> > for the requested tags/url
>
> Adding a drop-down menu to the top_bar, or even to the url_bar, so one
> can click the =i1 in 'LogiLogi,s1 @en =i1 =v1' and then see a list with
> the other logis, and simmilar for different concepts, so LogiLogi,s1,
> if clicked shows a list of other senses of the word LogiLogi, would be
> a good thing.
>
We could work on this, I'm still trying to understand the "s1, @en =i1
=v1" things! :s

> > How will this be approached if the word is a number? what if the
> > characters are not even?
>
> The word is just a string, so a number would also have it's first part
> to point to the best logi and it's second to the links & logis.
>
> If the number of characters is not even we round down or up, a pretty
> random choice.
>
> Words shorter than two characters are not linkable for now, and later
> we can add a special rule for those...
>

I belive your idea of half links is exelent to go ahead and see Manta
working right now, then there will be time to get the UI better in
this aspect.

> > >I also miss the requested_, received_ and logi_line's in their old
> > >function of adding pretty browser-independent top and bottom borders
> > >to the url-bar and menu-items. Or do you disagree with them ?
> >
> > I didn't played attention yet to the borders, thought I saw them, I
> > didn't get the meaning of them, please explain me the concept. I'll
> > add them now and get the colors correctly.
>
> The borders have no different meaning than the requested, received,
> and logi-colors they match. The're merely nice, and to make the color-
> distinctions clearer.
>
Ok, I thought it was with some kind of meaning, like visited or
something similar... We have to think further about all this, it looks
like lots of fun to me. I would take the borders away for now if they
are not with a mining as they could distract or confuse, and if you
agree.

> > >A screenshot of the old Manta Gui as it looks in my Firefox is
> > >online here:
> > >http://logilogi.org/pub/img/manta-old-gui.jpg
> > >so we're talking about the same things...
> > >
> > >> Check it out and let me know what you think.
> > >
> > >It's great, I'm especially enthausiastic about what you made happen
> > >inside the url_bar_top! It scales perfectly with differing font-sizes
> > >now!
> >
> > Thanks!
> > I'm glad that you like what we've done.
> >
> > We really have to define with which JS library to work with. Miguel is
> > used to prototype.js (he is now in the mailing list, hola!). You
> > talked about RJS, I researched and it looks like it's incorporated in
> > the new RoR version as standard library, dought it doesn't has many
> > functions? help me on this.
>
> RJS also uses Prototype. So using these where possible would be good:
> http://api.rubyonrails.org/classes/ActionView/Helpers/PrototypeHelper.html
> http://api.rubyonrails.org/classes/ActionView/Helpers/PrototypeHelper/JavaScriptGenerator/GeneratorMethods.html
>
> But for functions not yet in Rails you can safely use plain Prototype,
> because it's likely they will be added later on.
>
We'll take this in count and start working between Ruby and Prototype.

> This is also a nice spot to check:
> http://www.rubyinside.com/16-rjs-resources-and-tutorials-for-rails-programmers-5.html
>
> Note however that we are on Rails stable, not edge, this because
> engines and plugins usually do not work very well with Edge.
>
> > As told you before in this email, I'm working on migrating the tables
> > to divs when they are not for displaing tabular or sortable data. Let
> > me know what you think. Could it speed up your coding to get rid of
> > tables?
>
> It will not make a difference in terms of coding. The main advantages
> to gain are scaling font-sizes, and neater html-code.
>
> But I also think that we should remain pragmatic, and not remove all
> tables where they are just easier or simpler for layout-purposes. Also
> because the tables are only in one place, so the day that browsers
> will stop supporting tables the way we know them, we can change them
> in no-time.
>
> Also a particularily hairy problem is having a 3-column layout with a
> footer that keeps neat when any one of the 3 columns are longer than
> the others (currently flawed in both http://www.logilogi.org:3000/ and
> your file, but ok in the layout of LogiLogi.org).
>
I didn't think this should be a problem, could you explain me better
which cases you'd like to solve with the 3 columns? I've studied about
this over the internet many times and I've found some strong 3 columns
table-less structures.

Also you are right about that we should not waste time right now in
those things and try to see Manta running (at least I'm anxious about
that).

I'll make some minor changes and we'll see what you think.
I work on Firefox and always tests on IE 6.0 at least, and could test
IE 5.5 too, but it's a bit obsolete.

> > I've started to try to organize the LogiLogi UI structure as it is now
> > and would like to publish it at the LogiLogi.org under some section
> > where we could justify and discuss the UI approach.
>
> That's ok.
>
> http://en.logilogi.org/MetaLogi/LogiLogiManta_GUI seems a good
> location for publishing info about the GUI that needs to be kept
> around longer than in the archives of the mailinglist (which are
> not working a.t.m. by the way, but it's a low priority bug on
> Sourceforge).
>
I'll try to organize in that url you suggested.

> If you mean adding the file, it would be nice if you included it
> in the svn repository. That way we can all see it progress, and
> I can also add it easily to www.logilogi.org:3000 then for non-
> local use (testing in different browsers and such). Putting it
> under public with a name like new_url seems most logical to me.
>
Ok, I will tonight, I hope.

> Great work so far, and welcome Miguel!
>
> Wybo
>
> > >Wybo
> > >
> > >> --
> > >> Bruno
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> LogiLogi-list mailing list
> Log...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>


-- 
Bruno