torcs-devel Mailing List for TORCS - The Open Racing Car Simulator

Hi folks,

i created a first version of an new icon for TORCS in Tango style
( tango.freedesktop.org )

http://files.myopera.com/area42/files/torcs-icon-tangofied.png

I'm thinking about integrate a checker flag too. What do you think about
this first step?



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|\/\/\/| 
|      |        Bart.
| (O)(O)        ba...@ne...
C      _) 
|   ,_/         Linux for Designers - http://my.opera.com/area42/blog/
|   /           SweeTS delicious Typo3 development - http://typo3.area42.de/
/   \ 

Hi folks,

as i wrote once i will make the sources of the TORCS logo 2008 freely
available under the FreeArt
license.
The package includes:
- a Inkscape-SVG file of the tangofied logo
- a PNG image 512*256 of the tangofied logo
- a BW outline
- the 3d version of the logo for Blender 2.47

Grab it here and have fun with it:
http://files.myopera.com/area42/files/torcs-logo-2008.zip

I will create this evening the icon based on the tangofied logo :)



___/\_______________________________________________________________________

Das ist kein Anhaltspunkt… oder doch?

|\/\/\/| 
|      |        Bart.
| (O)(O)        ba...@ne...
C      _) 
|   ,_/         Linux for Designers - http://my.opera.com/area42/blog/
|   /           SweeTS delicious Typo3 development - http://typo3.area42.de/
/   \ 

grrr home internet connection still down, when is the 1.3.1 release
scheduled for?

Hello,

is there a documentation about the lensflare effect? 
What textures are used for it and how can this adjusted per track?

I like to improve it but do not know how it works.

Thanx.


___/\_______________________________________________________________________

Ralf wird sich nicht verformen, wenn man ihn kräftig quetscht.

|\/\/\/| 
|      |        Bart.
| (O)(O)        ba...@ne...
C      _) 
|   ,_/         Linux for Designers - http://my.opera.com/area42/blog/
|   /           SweeTS delicious Typo3 development - http://typo3.area42.de/
/   \ 

Andrew,
>
> The fordgt2.wav file in the above zip will need to be copied to your 
> data/sounds folder.
>

That's not more necessary now, the sound files can be located within the 
cars directory in 1-3-1.

Eric.

This is a simplistic, yet effective, method of adding an "animated driver"
to TORCS.  As you
change the car's steering, the visible "driver" actually turns the steering
wheel and can lean
into the turn.

There were two ways of implementing this.  One was to have TORCS adjust the
vertices of
the driver & steering wheel models - the other is to define a series of
separate driver/wheel
models that TORCS chooses between according to the steer values.  The former
would look
smoother, but its complexity is way beyond my ability to develop - in fact I
don't really know
that its possible.  Therefore my patch implements the multi-model approach.

The patch can be downloaded from:-

http://locus.webng.com/files/driverpatch.zip

A new section has been added to the car XML to define the models & the
steering trigger
values.  If the section doesn't exist then the new functionality isn't
activated, hence all existing
cars will work unchanged.  To demonstrate the patch, I quickly threw
together an example:-

http://locus.webng.com/files/ac-cobra.zip

The fordgt2.wav file in the above zip will need to be copied to your
data/sounds folder.  The
car itself is in the Historic category - make sure you choose the "AC Cobra
427 (1966)" 
rather than the "AC Cobra 427" that accompanies TORCS.  Some images to
illustrate the
patch/car in action:-

http://locus.webng.com/images/steering1.jpg
http://locus.webng.com/images/steering2.jpg

I hope you all like the patch - for cars with an open cockpit (and I'm
making a bunch of them
at the moment) it really does improve the look & feel of the game.
Suggestions and comments
welcomed :)

cheers
Andrew

Hi,

generate the track with trageditor, but don't generate de terrain.

The track is create with
trackgen -c road -n b  (ok)
but
trackgen -c road -n b -a   (no)

I need the elevation map.

Tks

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!--
file                : b.xml
auto generated      : by Track Editor
version             : v 0.6.0 24/4/2005
copyright           : (C) 2005 by Charalampos Alexopoulos
email               :
-->
<!--
This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
(at your option) any later version.
-->
<!DOCTYPE params SYSTEM "../../../src/libs/tgf/params.dtd" [
<!--  general definitions for tracks  -->
<!ENTITY default-surfaces SYSTEM "../../../data/tracks/surfaces.xml">
]>

<params name="test" type="param" mode="mw">
  <section name="Surfaces">&default-surfaces;</section>
  <section name="Header">
    <attstr name="name" val="b" />
    <attstr name="category" val="road" />
    <attnum name="version" val="4" />
    <attstr name="author" val="" />
    <attstr name="description" val="" />
  </section>
  <section name="Graphic">
    <attstr name="3d description" val="b.ac" />
    <section name="Terrain Generation">
      <attnum name="track step" unit="m" val="20" />
      <attnum name="border margin" unit="m" val="50" />
      <attnum name="border step" unit="m" val="30" />
      <attnum name="border height" unit="m" val="15" />
      <attstr name="orientation" val="clockwise" />
    </section>
  </section>
  <section name="Main Track">
    <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="10.0" />
    <attnum name="profil steps length" unit="m" val="4.0" />
    <attstr name="surface" val="asphalt2-lines" />
    <!--Left part of track-->
    <section name="Left Side">
      <attnum name="start width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
      <attnum name="end width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
      <attstr name="surface" val="grass" />
    </section>
    <section name="Left Border">
      <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.5" />
      <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="0.05" />
      <attstr name="surface" val="curb-5cm-r" />
      <attstr name="style" val="plan" />
    </section>
    <section name="Left Barrier">
      <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.1" />
      <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="1.0" />
      <attstr name="surface" val="barrier" />
      <attstr name="style" val="curb" />
    </section>
    <!--End of left part-->
    <!--Right part of track-->
    <section name="Right Side">
      <attnum name="start width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
      <attnum name="end width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
      <attstr name="surface" val="grass" />
    </section>
    <section name="Right Border">
      <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.5" />
      <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="0.05" />
      <attstr name="surface" val="curb-5cm-r" />
      <attstr name="style" val="plan" />
    </section>
    <section name="Right Barrier">
      <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.1" />
      <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="1.0" />
      <attstr name="surface" val="barrier" />
      <attstr name="style" val="curb" />
    </section>
    <!--End of right part-->
    <section name="Pits">
      <attstr name="side" val="right" />
      <attstr name="entry" val="" />
      <attstr name="start" val="" />
      <attstr name="end" val="" />
      <attstr name="exit" val="" />
      <attnum name="length" unit="m" val="0.0" />
      <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.0" />
    </section>
    <section name="Track Segments">
      <!--******************************-->
      <!--     Segment 1                -->
      <!--******************************-->
      <section name="1">
        <attstr name="type" val="str" />
        <attnum name="lg" unit="m" val="62.0" />
        <attnum name="z start" unit="m" val="0.0" />
        <attnum name="z end" unit="m" val="0.0" />
        <attstr name="surface" val="asphalt2-lines" />
        <!--Left part of segment-->
        <section name="Left Side">
          <attnum name="start width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attnum name="end width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="grass" />
        </section>
        <section name="Left Border">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.5" />
          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="0.05" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="curb-5cm-r" />
          <attstr name="style" val="plan" />
        </section>
        <section name="Left Barrier">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.1" />
          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="1.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="barrier" />
          <attstr name="style" val="curb" />
        </section>
        <!--End of left part-->
        <!--Right part of segment-->
        <section name="Right Side">
          <attnum name="start width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attnum name="end width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="grass" />
        </section>
        <section name="Right Border">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.5" />
          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="0.05" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="curb-5cm-r" />
          <attstr name="style" val="plan" />
        </section>
        <section name="Right Barrier">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.1" />
          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="1.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="barrier" />
          <attstr name="style" val="curb" />
        </section>
        <!--End of right part-->
      </section>
      <!--******************************-->
      <!--     Segment 2                -->
      <!--******************************-->
      <section name="straight 5">
        <attstr name="type" val="str" />
        <attnum name="lg" unit="m" val="2.5" />
        <attnum name="z start" unit="m" val="0.0" />
        <attnum name="z end" unit="m" val="0.0" />
        <attstr name="surface" val="grass" />
        <!--Left part of segment-->
        <section name="Left Side">
          <attnum name="start width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attnum name="end width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="grass" />
        </section>
        <section name="Left Border">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.5" />
          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="0.05" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="curb-5cm-r" />
          <attstr name="style" val="plan" />
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        <section name="Left Barrier">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.1" />
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          <attstr name="surface" val="barrier" />
          <attstr name="style" val="curb" />
        </section>
        <!--End of left part-->
        <!--Right part of segment-->
        <section name="Right Side">
          <attnum name="start width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
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          <attstr name="surface" val="grass" />
        </section>
        <section name="Right Border">
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          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="0.05" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="curb-5cm-r" />
          <attstr name="style" val="plan" />
        </section>
        <section name="Right Barrier">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.1" />
          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="1.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="barrier" />
          <attstr name="style" val="curb" />
        </section>
        <!--End of right part-->
      </section>
      <!--******************************-->
      <!--     Segment 3                -->
      <!--******************************-->
      <section name="straight 6">
        <attstr name="type" val="str" />
        <attnum name="lg" unit="m" val="10.5" />
        <attnum name="z start" unit="m" val="0.0" />
        <attnum name="z end" unit="m" val="0.0" />
        <attstr name="surface" val="asphalt2-lines" />
        <!--Left part of segment-->
        <section name="Left Side">
          <attnum name="start width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attnum name="end width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="grass" />
        </section>
        <section name="Left Border">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.5" />
          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="0.05" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="curb-5cm-r" />
          <attstr name="style" val="plan" />
        </section>
        <section name="Left Barrier">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.1" />
          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="1.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="barrier" />
          <attstr name="style" val="curb" />
        </section>
        <!--End of left part-->
        <!--Right part of segment-->
        <section name="Right Side">
          <attnum name="start width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attnum name="end width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="grass" />
        </section>
        <section name="Right Border">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.5" />
          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="0.05" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="curb-5cm-r" />
          <attstr name="style" val="plan" />
        </section>
        <section name="Right Barrier">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.1" />
          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="1.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="barrier" />
          <attstr name="style" val="curb" />
        </section>
        <!--End of right part-->
      </section>
      <!--******************************-->
      <!--     Segment 4                -->
      <!--******************************-->
      <section name="straight 8">
        <attstr name="type" val="str" />
        <attnum name="lg" unit="m" val="2.5" />
        <attnum name="z start" unit="m" val="0.0" />
        <attnum name="z end" unit="m" val="0.0" />
        <attstr name="surface" val="grass" />
        <!--Left part of segment-->
        <section name="Left Side">
          <attnum name="start width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attnum name="end width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="grass" />
        </section>
        <section name="Left Border">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.5" />
          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="0.05" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="curb-5cm-r" />
          <attstr name="style" val="plan" />
        </section>
        <section name="Left Barrier">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.1" />
          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="1.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="barrier" />
          <attstr name="style" val="curb" />
        </section>
        <!--End of left part-->
        <!--Right part of segment-->
        <section name="Right Side">
          <attnum name="start width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attnum name="end width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="grass" />
        </section>
        <section name="Right Border">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.5" />
          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="0.05" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="curb-5cm-r" />
          <attstr name="style" val="plan" />
        </section>
        <section name="Right Barrier">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.1" />
          <attnum name="height" unit="m" val="1.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="barrier" />
          <attstr name="style" val="curb" />
        </section>
        <!--End of right part-->
      </section>
      <!--******************************-->
      <!--     Segment 5                -->
      <!--******************************-->
      <section name="straight 7">
        <attstr name="type" val="str" />
        <attnum name="lg" unit="m" val="44.5" />
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        <attnum name="z end" unit="m" val="0.0" />
        <attstr name="surface" val="asphalt2-lines" />
        <!--Left part of segment-->
        <section name="Left Side">
          <attnum name="start width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attnum name="end width" unit="m" val="4.0" />
          <attstr name="surface" val="grass" />
        </section>
        <section name="Left Border">
          <attnum name="width" unit="m" val="0.5" />
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        <!--End of left part-->
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        <section name="Right Side">
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      <!--******************************-->
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        <attnum name="lg" unit="m" val="81.5" />
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The 1.3.1 version of human.cpp introduces an "auto clutch", which while very
useful was
however not allowing people to control the clutch manually using keyboard or
mouse/joystick 
buttons.  This fixes that problem.

cheers
Andrew


--- human-old.cpp	Thu Sep 11 10:19:26 2008
+++ human.cpp	Thu Sep 11 10:19:53 2008
@@ -739,6 +739,10 @@
 			break;
 	}
 
+	// if player's used the clutch manually then we dispense with
autoClutch
+	if (car->_clutchCmd != 0.0f)
+		HCtx[idx]->autoClutch = 0;
+
 	switch (cmd[CMD_THROTTLE].type) {
 		case GFCTRL_TYPE_JOY_AXIS:
 			throttle = joyInfo->ax[cmd[CMD_THROTTLE].val];
@@ -1041,7 +1045,7 @@
 		}
 	}
 
-	if (HCtx[idx]->autoClutch)
+	if (HCtx[idx]->autoClutch && car->_clutchCmd == 0.0f)
 		car->_clutchCmd = getAutoClutch(idx, car->_gear,
car->_gearCmd, car);
 
 }
@@ -1154,7 +1158,7 @@
 		}
     }
 
-	if (HCtx[idx]->autoClutch)
+	if (HCtx[idx]->autoClutch && car->_clutchCmd == 0.0f)
 	    car->_clutchCmd = getAutoClutch(idx, car->_gear, car->_gearCmd,
car);
 }
 

I am with Bernhard on this one.   Since I do not actually have a force
feedback wheel
I cannot really test it.  But I can help you with the implementation if
you want.

for now I am constraining myself to maintaining small bits to which I
have already
contributed (simu, sound, olethros-bot)  and this is already much...

Bernhard Wymann wrote:
> Hi Jean-Philippe
>
>   
>>>> Currently working on force feedback integration in Torcs,
>>>> I am very close to the moment when I'm able to inject some effects
>>>> into my wheel.
>>>>         
>>> Since we already use the Pacejka formula, adding the aligning force is
>>> trivial.  I hope that it works correctly.
>>>
>>> I guess I can export a couple of variables in some structure..
>>> How about
>>> struct SteeringFeedback {
>>> 	float align; // magnitude of the horizontal force
>>> 	float bump; // magnitude of the vertical force
>>> 	float bump_frequency; // in case the force updates are too slow
>>> };
>>>
>>> Now, there bumps may be a bit tricky.  The simulation's dt is currently
>>> 0.002 if I remember correctly.  I think that the control feedback is set
>>> to 0.01, though I could be wrong.  In that case, you wouldn't need a
>>> bump_frequency, just a magnitude for the vertical forces and then how
>>> that is handled would depend on the actual feedback wheel used.
>>>       
>> If I understand correctly (raceengine::ReUpdate/ReOneStep), the physics engine
>> call period can't be lower than 0.002s (RCM_MAX_DT_SIMU), and the human input
>> device read period can't be lower than 0.02 (RCM_MAX_DT_ROBOTS).
>> As I want to update feedback force in the device each time Torcs reads it
>> (it's easy to implement), this means that we can't render a vibration
>> due to a run on a -say - 0.5 m period kerb, if the speed of the car
>> is higher than 45 km/h (if Shannon is right ;-)
>> (2 * car speed (m/s) / bump period (m) < feedback force update frequency)
>>
>> Or 1m period kerb at 90 km/h ...
>>
>> It'a a bit poor I think (if I am correct).
>>
>> On the other hand, it seems that my wheel can't render periodic forces
>> under 50 or 40 ms period ... so, it may be poor, but the device can't do better.
>>
>> And of course the final question is : what a real car mechanical steering chain
>> can render, as far as high frequency vibrations are concerned ?
>> I don't know that ...
>>     
>
> It does actually not matter, this is the wrong question, IMHO. The question is 
> how far can human perception distinguish between right and wrong feedback, and 
> how realistic is force feedback at all (I would guess you have no such or just 
> little feedback on the steering wheel, what really gets the vibration is your 
> whole back/body.
>
>   
>> After some researches about force feedback over other racing cars simulation
>> games, I tried rFactor (and found it a dangerous competitor against Torcs (;-).
>> In rFactor, the aligning force injected to the steering wheel decreases
>> as the grip on the front wheels loose the grip (with some mysterious damping
>> formula) ... I don't know if this "effect" will already be in the "Magnitude
>> of the horizontal force" you would export from Torcs physics engine ...
>> but if not, it would also be very interesting to export some kind of grip value
>> on the front (=steering) wheels.
>>
>>     
>>> I think I'll add the structure in interfaces/car.h and
>>> add it to the tPrivCar structure.
>>>       
>> I can imagine you are very very very busy with family, work and many passions
>> (this is interesting life ;-) ... but could you give us an idea
>> of when you could be able to release such a patch ?
>> Or if not, could you find some time to give us enough tips about simuV2/V3
>> to enable us to try and achieve it ourselves ?
>>     
>
> Ok, to keep it short, I am not interested at all in force feedback for TORCS 
> currently, I think somebody would first better invest time to integrate a 
> portable force feedback API into SDL (look at the README for "my" priorities). 
> Here quickly the reasons:
> - If you want "this" kind of simulation go to the shop and buy RFactor, Race07, 
> GTR XX or whatever.
> - The "unique selling proposition" of TORCS is its simplicity, portability, 
> performance and stability. Because it is small a developer can quickly dig into 
> the sources and achieve its customization (e.g. for a certain type of research, 
> just for fun, whatever).
> - I have seen lots of people which hooked in an left, so the TORCS core has to 
> stay small to be maintained over the long run, almost nobody is able or willing 
> to do the "dirty work" (e.g. look at Trigger, it is nice but nobody takes 
> currently care of it, IIRC).
> - Regarding force feedback: I bet the ordinary TORCS user has no steering wheel 
> at all, so the feature is mainly a mainteinance burden with almost no benefit.
>
> If you do not agree with this, you are of course free to create/distribute your 
> own fork/patch of TORCS.
>
> Bernhard
>
>
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>   

Hi Jean-Philippe

>>> Currently working on force feedback integration in Torcs,
>>> I am very close to the moment when I'm able to inject some effects
>>> into my wheel.
>> Since we already use the Pacejka formula, adding the aligning force is
>> trivial.  I hope that it works correctly.
>>
>> I guess I can export a couple of variables in some structure..
>> How about
>> struct SteeringFeedback {
>> 	float align; // magnitude of the horizontal force
>> 	float bump; // magnitude of the vertical force
>> 	float bump_frequency; // in case the force updates are too slow
>> };
>>
>> Now, there bumps may be a bit tricky.  The simulation's dt is currently
>> 0.002 if I remember correctly.  I think that the control feedback is set
>> to 0.01, though I could be wrong.  In that case, you wouldn't need a
>> bump_frequency, just a magnitude for the vertical forces and then how
>> that is handled would depend on the actual feedback wheel used.
> 
> If I understand correctly (raceengine::ReUpdate/ReOneStep), the physics engine
> call period can't be lower than 0.002s (RCM_MAX_DT_SIMU), and the human input
> device read period can't be lower than 0.02 (RCM_MAX_DT_ROBOTS).
> As I want to update feedback force in the device each time Torcs reads it
> (it's easy to implement), this means that we can't render a vibration
> due to a run on a -say - 0.5 m period kerb, if the speed of the car
> is higher than 45 km/h (if Shannon is right ;-)
> (2 * car speed (m/s) / bump period (m) < feedback force update frequency)
> 
> Or 1m period kerb at 90 km/h ...
> 
> It'a a bit poor I think (if I am correct).
> 
> On the other hand, it seems that my wheel can't render periodic forces
> under 50 or 40 ms period ... so, it may be poor, but the device can't do better.
> 
> And of course the final question is : what a real car mechanical steering chain
> can render, as far as high frequency vibrations are concerned ?
> I don't know that ...

It does actually not matter, this is the wrong question, IMHO. The question is 
how far can human perception distinguish between right and wrong feedback, and 
how realistic is force feedback at all (I would guess you have no such or just 
little feedback on the steering wheel, what really gets the vibration is your 
whole back/body.

> After some researches about force feedback over other racing cars simulation
> games, I tried rFactor (and found it a dangerous competitor against Torcs (;-).
> In rFactor, the aligning force injected to the steering wheel decreases
> as the grip on the front wheels loose the grip (with some mysterious damping
> formula) ... I don't know if this "effect" will already be in the "Magnitude
> of the horizontal force" you would export from Torcs physics engine ...
> but if not, it would also be very interesting to export some kind of grip value
> on the front (=steering) wheels.
> 
>> I think I'll add the structure in interfaces/car.h and
>> add it to the tPrivCar structure.
> 
> I can imagine you are very very very busy with family, work and many passions
> (this is interesting life ;-) ... but could you give us an idea
> of when you could be able to release such a patch ?
> Or if not, could you find some time to give us enough tips about simuV2/V3
> to enable us to try and achieve it ourselves ?

Ok, to keep it short, I am not interested at all in force feedback for TORCS 
currently, I think somebody would first better invest time to integrate a 
portable force feedback API into SDL (look at the README for "my" priorities). 
Here quickly the reasons:
- If you want "this" kind of simulation go to the shop and buy RFactor, Race07, 
GTR XX or whatever.
- The "unique selling proposition" of TORCS is its simplicity, portability, 
performance and stability. Because it is small a developer can quickly dig into 
the sources and achieve its customization (e.g. for a certain type of research, 
just for fun, whatever).
- I have seen lots of people which hooked in an left, so the TORCS core has to 
stay small to be maintained over the long run, almost nobody is able or willing 
to do the "dirty work" (e.g. look at Trigger, it is nice but nobody takes 
currently care of it, IIRC).
- Regarding force feedback: I bet the ordinary TORCS user has no steering wheel 
at all, so the feature is mainly a mainteinance burden with almost no benefit.

If you do not agree with this, you are of course free to create/distribute your 
own fork/patch of TORCS.

Bernhard

Hi, Christos, and all.

>> Currently working on force feedback integration in Torcs,
>> I am very close to the moment when I'm able to inject some effects
>> into my wheel.
> 
> Since we already use the Pacejka formula, adding the aligning force is
> trivial.  I hope that it works correctly.
> 
> I guess I can export a couple of variables in some structure..
> How about
> struct SteeringFeedback {
> 	float align; // magnitude of the horizontal force
> 	float bump; // magnitude of the vertical force
> 	float bump_frequency; // in case the force updates are too slow
> };
> 
> Now, there bumps may be a bit tricky.  The simulation's dt is currently
> 0.002 if I remember correctly.  I think that the control feedback is set
> to 0.01, though I could be wrong.  In that case, you wouldn't need a
> bump_frequency, just a magnitude for the vertical forces and then how
> that is handled would depend on the actual feedback wheel used.

If I understand correctly (raceengine::ReUpdate/ReOneStep), the physics engine
call period can't be lower than 0.002s (RCM_MAX_DT_SIMU), and the human input
device read period can't be lower than 0.02 (RCM_MAX_DT_ROBOTS).
As I want to update feedback force in the device each time Torcs reads it
(it's easy to implement), this means that we can't render a vibration
due to a run on a -say - 0.5 m period kerb, if the speed of the car
is higher than 45 km/h (if Shannon is right ;-)
(2 * car speed (m/s) / bump period (m) < feedback force update frequency)

Or 1m period kerb at 90 km/h ...

It'a a bit poor I think (if I am correct).

On the other hand, it seems that my wheel can't render periodic forces
under 50 or 40 ms period ... so, it may be poor, but the device can't do better.

And of course the final question is : what a real car mechanical steering chain
can render, as far as high frequency vibrations are concerned ?
I don't know that ...

So, at the end, you are right : we don't really need the bump frequency ...

> Are there any other forces that you'd feel on the wheel?

After some researches about force feedback over other racing cars simulation
games, I tried rFactor (and found it a dangerous competitor against Torcs (;-).
In rFactor, the aligning force injected to the steering wheel decreases
as the grip on the front wheels loose the grip (with some mysterious damping
formula) ... I don't know if this "effect" will already be in the "Magnitude
of the horizontal force" you would export from Torcs physics engine ...
but if not, it would also be very interesting to export some kind of grip value
on the front (=steering) wheels.

> I think I'll add the structure in interfaces/car.h and
> add it to the tPrivCar structure.

I can imagine you are very very very busy with family, work and many passions
(this is interesting life ;-) ... but could you give us an idea
of when you could be able to release such a patch ?
Or if not, could you find some time to give us enough tips about simuV2/V3
to enable us to try and achieve it ourselves ?

Thanks a lot for your work and help.

Jean-Philippe.

Hi Eckhard

> on my Ubuntu 8.04 i use for the nVidia 8400 GS the nVidia 169.xxx
> drivers shipping with it.
> There is no entry about resolutions at the xorg.conf.

You can set up any resolution manually according this FAQ:
http://torcs.sourceforge.net/index.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=30#c4_3_5


Beware, if you cannto change the resolution with the CTRL ALT + or - 
combination, it will not work for TORCS either I guess. Maybe you built TORCS 
with --disable-xrandr?

Bye, hope this helps,

Bernhard

Hi,

on my Ubuntu 8.04 i use for the nVidia 8400 GS the nVidia 169.xxx
drivers shipping with it.
There is no entry about resolutions at the xorg.conf.

xrandr gives me that list:
   1920x1200      50.0* 
   1680x1050      51.0  
   1600x1024      52.0  
   1440x900       53.0  
   1400x1050      54.0  
   1280x1024      55.0  
   1280x960       56.0  
   1280x800       57.0  
   1280x768       58.0  
   1152x768       59.0  
   1024x768       60.0     61.0  
   960x720        62.0  
   960x600        63.0  
   928x696        64.0  
   896x672        65.0  
   840x525        66.0  
   800x600        67.0     68.0     69.0  
   800x512        70.0  
   720x450        71.0  
   700x525        72.0  
   640x512        73.0  
   640x480        74.0     75.0  
   640x400        76.0  
   640x384        77.0  
   576x384        78.0  
   512x384        79.0  
   400x300        80.0     81.0  
   320x240        82.0  

But at TORCS are only the hardcoded values of the
src/libs/tgfclient/screen.cpp available. 
For the Windows version it would be usesfull to may adding 1280x800 and
1440x900 to the hardcoded list too.


___/\_______________________________________________________________________

Ich darf keine Stempel aus Seife schnitzen.

|\/\/\/| 
|      |        Bart.
| (O)(O)        ba...@ne...
C      _) 
|   ,_/         Linux for Designers - http://my.opera.com/area42/blog/
|   /           SweeTS delicious Typo3 development - http://typo3.area42.de/
/   \ 


Am Samstag, den 06.09.2008, 22:05 +0200 schrieb Bernhard Wymann:

> Hi Eckhard
> 
> > i got a laptop and pc that have a wide screen display in a resolution of
> > 1920x1200 (16:10). 
> > The resolution 1920x1200 is much to high for a fast and smooth TORCS
> > race.
> > So I'd prefer a smaller resolution. 
> > 
> > The problem is that the typical lower wide screen resolutions 1440x900
> > or
> > 1280x800 are not available in TORCS (but these are available at my
> > desktops).
> > The only real 16:10 wide screen resolution that is available is
> > 1680x1050.
> > 
> > How/ where TORCS generate these screen resolutions?
> > 
> > I tested that on Ubuntu 8.04 with a nVidia 8400 and on Windows XP with 
> > a ATIX800 graphic card.
> 
> On Windows the resolution are currently hardcoded (fixed list), so you can 
> select even unavailable resolutions (it should run windowed as consequence).
> 
> In Linux the resolutions are fetched via the XRandr extension, so whatever is 
> advertised is offered, this should basically includ all resolution which you can 
> switch to with CTRL ALT + and CTRL ALT - and are listed in the xorg.conf or 
> XF86config file.
> 
> Look at src/libs/tgfclient/screen.cpp for details.
> 
> Bye, Bernhard
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Hi Bernhard (and others),

Op Saturday 06 September 2008 22:12:28 schreef Bernhard Wymann:
> Hi Mart
>
> D. Schellhammer hit and fixed the same issue this morning:-) It will be
> fixed for the release.

Good to hear.

> > Also, all the directories are installed with mode 777. Is that still
> > neccesairy? (I think it was neccesairy for the screenshots)
>
> This does not apply on my box (SuSE 10.3), maybe your default masks are set
> up this way (look for "umask" information specific for your distro)?

My umask is set to 0022.

I think this is caused by the script mkinstalldirs (distributed with torcs). 
In that script, it first executes "umask 000" and afterwards "mkdir".

Regards,

Mart

Hi Mart

> Replace #include <new.h> with #include <new> everywhere.
> 
> Replace #include <string.h> with #include <string> in src/drivers/olethros/ 
> (several files)

D. Schellhammer hit and fixed the same issue this morning:-) It will be fixed 
for the release.

> Also, all the directories are installed with mode 777. Is that still 
> neccesairy? (I think it was neccesairy for the screenshots)

This does not apply on my box (SuSE 10.3), maybe your default masks are set up 
this way (look for "umask" information specific for your distro)?

Bye, Bernhard

Hi Eckhard

> i got a laptop and pc that have a wide screen display in a resolution of
> 1920x1200 (16:10). 
> The resolution 1920x1200 is much to high for a fast and smooth TORCS
> race.
> So I'd prefer a smaller resolution. 
> 
> The problem is that the typical lower wide screen resolutions 1440x900
> or
> 1280x800 are not available in TORCS (but these are available at my
> desktops).
> The only real 16:10 wide screen resolution that is available is
> 1680x1050.
> 
> How/ where TORCS generate these screen resolutions?
> 
> I tested that on Ubuntu 8.04 with a nVidia 8400 and on Windows XP with 
> a ATIX800 graphic card.

On Windows the resolution are currently hardcoded (fixed list), so you can 
select even unavailable resolutions (it should run windowed as consequence).

In Linux the resolutions are fetched via the XRandr extension, so whatever is 
advertised is offered, this should basically includ all resolution which you can 
switch to with CTRL ALT + and CTRL ALT - and are listed in the xorg.conf or 
XF86config file.

Look at src/libs/tgfclient/screen.cpp for details.

Bye, Bernhard

Hello,

i got a laptop and pc that have a wide screen display in a resolution of
1920x1200 (16:10). 
The resolution 1920x1200 is much to high for a fast and smooth TORCS
race.
So I'd prefer a smaller resolution. 

The problem is that the typical lower wide screen resolutions 1440x900
or
1280x800 are not available in TORCS (but these are available at my
desktops).
The only real 16:10 wide screen resolution that is available is
1680x1050.

How/ where TORCS generate these screen resolutions?

I tested that on Ubuntu 8.04 with a nVidia 8400 and on Windows XP with 
a ATIX800 graphic card.
 

___/\_______________________________________________________________________

Ich werde keine Kreide verschwenden.

|\/\/\/| 
|      |        Bart.
| (O)(O)        ba...@ne...
C      _) 
|   ,_/         Linux for Designers - http://my.opera.com/area42/blog/
|   /           SweeTS delicious Typo3 development - http://typo3.area42.de/
/   \ 

Hello all,

On IRC, there is a problem reported with compiling the torcs-1.3.1-test1 
version with gcc-4.3. This can be solved (for gcc-4.3) with the following 
changes:

Replace #include <new.h> with #include <new> everywhere.

Replace #include <string.h> with #include <string> in src/drivers/olethros/ 
(several files)

The reason why this is neccesairy to compile in gcc-4.3 is descriped here: [1]

Also, all the directories are installed with mode 777. Is that still 
neccesairy? (I think it was neccesairy for the screenshots)

Regards,

Mart

[1] http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.3/porting_to.html

Hi Eckhard

> I'm not good in compiling packages so i tried the Windows built and got
> some questions:
> - I improved the Dirt-1 track but it is not 1.3.1 test package. Are
> there any problems?

No, I just found not time to put it into test1.

>     Meanwhile a added the missing author and license informations to it.
> The package is
>     available here: www.neeneenee.de/dirt-1.zip
> - I improved the backlight and backfire textures and can't find them too
> - At the torcs-users-list somebody created really cool textures for the
> TRB1-7 cars:

I know, but I have first to ask the author about the concrete license. We will see.

> Strange behavior:
> - the cars accelerate very slow if you moving off and steering it, if
> you stop stering the car accelerate much faster 

Yes, this is intension, I applied a change made by Andrew and Christos. But you 
can switch the driving aids off if you like.

> Thanks again for the 1.3.1 test package :) 

You are welcome.

Best regards

Bernhard

Hello Bernhard,

thank for building and providing a 1.3.1 test package! I'm glad to see
some of my work
shipped with TORCS 1.3.1 :)

I'm not good in compiling packages so i tried the Windows built and got
some questions:
- I improved the Dirt-1 track but it is not 1.3.1 test package. Are
there any problems?
    Meanwhile a added the missing author and license informations to it.
The package is
    available here: www.neeneenee.de/dirt-1.zip
- I improved the backlight and backfire textures and can't find them too
- At the torcs-users-list somebody created really cool textures for the
TRB1-7 cars:

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=e17477d90808231858k42e746a6g19294c21f7ac5b35%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=torcs-users
    But there aren't shipped with 1.3.1 test too  

Strange behavior:
- the cars accelerate very slow if you moving off and steering it, if
you stop stering the car accelerate much faster 

Thanks again for the 1.3.1 test package :) 
Best regards!


___/\_______________________________________________________________________

Ich darf beim Namensaufruf nicht dazwischenschreien: “Sie ist tot”.

|\/\/\/| 
|      |        Bart.
| (O)(O)        ba...@ne...
C      _) 
|   ,_/         Linux for Designers - http://my.opera.com/area42/blog/
|   /           SweeTS delicious Typo3 development - http://typo3.area42.de/
/   \ 

Hi Jean-Philippe

> You made a great job about trb1 car textures and fine tuning ...
> they are nice looking, and - the best at the end - VERY well balanced against
> each other, as I could realize through some hours of "human driving",
> mainly on Alpine-2 (really great) track. I did not made robot comparison, yet.

Thank you for that:-)

> I ran my 1.3.1 branch tests on Linux Mandriva 2008.0 x86_64 GCC 4.2.2rc
> and Windows XP SP2 Visual C++ 6 ; only in the Quick Race mode,
> and mainly on the Alpine-2 track, but on some others too.
> 
> I found no particular issue, except sometimes a crash when clicking too fast
> on configuration screen Accept/Cancel/... (screen exit) buttons,
> but I feel this is not particular to 1.3.1.

Hmm, ok, I remember that we had this in the past, but on my current machines it 
does not occur (I have other problems, sometimes the OpenGL driver of my GF8800 
kills my machine...). If you could find the reason and send a fix it would be 
great (in case TORCS is the problem and not a library or a hardware driver).

> The only small thing I find it could be improved is the car2-trb1 engine sound,
> that seems too artificial for my hears. But may be it's a question of taste ...

Ah, I have this here too, if somebody improves the samples it would be welcome 
of course. The improvement must comply with the free art license, so do not 
introduce/use protected material (everything is protected by copyright by default).

Thank you for the nice words.

Bernhard

Hi, Bernhard, and all.

You made a great job about trb1 car textures and fine tuning ...
they are nice looking, and - the best at the end - VERY well balanced against
each other, as I could realize through some hours of "human driving",
mainly on Alpine-2 (really great) track. I did not made robot comparison, yet.

I ran my 1.3.1 branch tests on Linux Mandriva 2008.0 x86_64 GCC 4.2.2rc
and Windows XP SP2 Visual C++ 6 ; only in the Quick Race mode,
and mainly on the Alpine-2 track, but on some others too.

I found no particular issue, except sometimes a crash when clicking too fast
on configuration screen Accept/Cancel/... (screen exit) buttons,
but I feel this is not particular to 1.3.1.

The only small thing I find it could be improved is the car2-trb1 engine sound,
that seems too artificial for my hears. But may be it's a question of taste ...

Note: And as far as sound is concerned, there are also some other cars
       (not from  trb1 group) that have quite pour and or faulty engine sound,
       (Alpha 155 DTM, Honda NSX, 206 WRC, 306 Maxi, Corolla WRC, Lancer Evo WRC
        and may be p406). I have some ideas about re-synthesizing existing
       samples after some cleaning, particularly to remove a bad pulsation
       when the sample is loop-replayed ...
       But that's another story for another release ...

Great job again, and a big step on the clear and consistent roadmap
you told us about some time ago !

Cheers,

Jean-Philippe.