TTY-based group scheduling

Posted Nov 18, 2010 2:43 UTC (Thu) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239)
In reply to: TTY-based group scheduling by neilbrown
Parent article: TTY-based group scheduling

Yeah, I don't see them as conflicting. I think Lennart's objection was primarily down to the idea that this patch helps desktop users. The majority of desktop users never run anything tied to a TTY, so it's not a win there - it just helps the fairly niche crowd that use the desktop while simultaneously launching heavy jobs from terminals.

...which isn't inherently a bad thing. The people that do do that kind of thing are the people that are more likely to update their kernel more often than their userspace, and they're also the kind of enthusiast population that test kernels early and often and let us know when things have broken. There's obvious benefits in catering to them, but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that there's way more people using Linux as something to run a web browser and a music player than there are people who ever launch a terminal.

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TTY-based group scheduling

Posted Nov 18, 2010 3:03 UTC (Thu) by Trelane (subscriber, #56877) [Link] (9 responses)

which seems to argue for integration into KDE or GNOME, not just systemd, no?

TTY-based group scheduling

Posted Nov 18, 2010 3:17 UTC (Thu) by foom (subscriber, #14868) [Link] (8 responses)

Yes.

But, the plan is for systemd (as a per-user process, separate from the root/pid 1 process) to take over as the session manager for GNOME (and who knows, maybe KDE too). Because, in the end, a user session manager has to do almost the same things as a root daemon manager anyways.

TTY-based group scheduling

Posted Nov 18, 2010 3:24 UTC (Thu) by Trelane (subscriber, #56877) [Link]

ah, I'd missed that somewhere.

Honestly, I don't care who does it as long as it doesn't suck. :)

TTY-based group scheduling

Posted Nov 18, 2010 20:03 UTC (Thu) by aleXXX (subscriber, #2742) [Link] (6 responses)

Lennart didn't appear yet on kde-core-devel to propose systemd as a session manager for KDE, or asking for input, or anything.

Alex

TTY-based group scheduling

Posted Nov 18, 2010 20:49 UTC (Thu) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (5 responses)

Afaik, Lennart isn't personally interested in driving the KDE side of things. Someone else from KDE can look into it though, ask questions etc

TTY-based group scheduling

Posted Nov 18, 2010 23:27 UTC (Thu) by cyd (guest, #4153) [Link] (4 responses)

The modus operandi, if PulseAudio is any guide, would be to break KDE and let its developers try to sort it out.

TTY-based group scheduling

Posted Nov 19, 2010 0:00 UTC (Fri) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link] (2 responses)

Certainly PulseAudio and proper integration into Gnome is now one of the best things that ever happened for my desktop Audio-wise.

Gone are the days of mucking around with my ~/.asoundrc file. Good riddance to them.

I couldn't imagine going back now.

TTY-based group scheduling

Posted Nov 19, 2010 0:43 UTC (Fri) by sfeam (subscriber, #2841) [Link]

Interesting to hear that PulseAudio was actually an improvement on the gnome side. I guess it comes down to what state things were in before. I was perfectly happy with audio integration and performance under KDE; then PulseAudio came along and made everything worse. So I greatly sympathize with the comment upthread, since history seems to indicate that Lennart doesn't consider breaking KDE to be a show-stopper.

TTY-based group scheduling

Posted Nov 19, 2010 9:36 UTC (Fri) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]

> Certainly PulseAudio and proper integration into Gnome is now one of the best things that ever happened for my desktop Audio-wise.

Yeah, but the other question is: how long and how much pain did this require?

When there is always something (different) broken, the dawn of the Linux Desktop is always "tomorrow".

TTY-based group scheduling

Posted Nov 20, 2010 0:18 UTC (Sat) by mezcalero (subscriber, #45103) [Link]

Well, I consider myself a GNOME developer and am a GNOME foundation member. That's my priority. I do not use KDE, and neither do I use LXDE or any of the other DE. Please understand that I am just one person and will not fix all desktop environments for you thank you very much. If KDE people are interested in systemd then they are very much welcome and should talk to us, and I'd be happy to work with them, but as KDE is not directly the project I am personally interested this has to come from them, I will not become a KDE hacker.

Also note that the man who currently does most of the maintenance work on PA during my hiatus working on systemd is actually a KDE contributor (Phonon), Colin Guthrie, so this worked out quite well in the end.

If KDE wants to be a leader in innovation when it comes to developing the infrastructure of the Linux desktop, then it actually has to become active and work with us. It's their duty, nor ours. So far however, with HAL/udev, NM, PA, Gst and all the other techs we pushed from the GNOME side they ended up catching up eventually, but never led development. I would be happy if they'd work more with those doing the ground work.

Lennart

TTY-based group scheduling

Posted Nov 18, 2010 3:23 UTC (Thu) by russell (guest, #10458) [Link] (1 responses)

'we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that there's way more people using Linux as something to run a web browser and a music player than there are people who ever launch a terminal."

really? who? He's missing out on all the fun things.

TTY-based group scheduling

Posted Nov 18, 2010 3:25 UTC (Thu) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link]

I've only been married a bit over a week, but I'm pretty sure that my wife's a she.