torcs-devel Mailing List for TORCS - The Open Racing Car Simulator

Hi Alan

TORCS is modular, because it should be possible to switch modules, there should no module internals used, this is an architecture decision (loose coupling, dependency inversion, client (->TORCS) dictates the interface). Another point is that a real driver doesn't now the hidden data either, he feels just the final force acting on him.

But the solution for your requirement is trivial, just add to the tCarElt struct the fields you need, and fill it in during the update (I do not have the code handy to look it up, but at some point some data from the simu tCar struct is copied to tCarElt to "publish" it to TORCS).

Have a look as well into the TORCS FAQ, chapter 6. Let me know if this helped you.

Best regards

Bernhard


On Oct 24, 2012, at 18:25 , Alan Ali wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am new user (i have acceptable progaming experince but not  games programing).
> 
>  i am trying to examine some control laws in PHD using TORCS as simulator, so now i am working in the "drive" function in the "bt" projects to drive the car but  i have some problem in finding the forces applied on the cars, accutally it seems that the froces are computed in the "simv2" projects(aero dynamic forces and the rolling forces...) but the question is how to access it from "bt" project ?
> 
> accutaly i don't understand why the simuv2 is not used in any projects, i can't see any call to the functions of simuv2 outside simuv2 (no project depend on it other than TORCS), if you can give me a link or reference that explaine how the game work and when the physique engine is envolved and whether we can access it's variables or not.
> 
> thanks a lot

Dear James,

unfortunately at the moment we are not supporting TORCS 1.3.3 yet.

We are thinking to move to TORCS 1.3.3 for the next championship, but right
now we did not take a final decision about that.
By the way, if we will update the competition software to support TORCS
1.3.3 it should not affect the current API from the client side.
Accordingly, if you start working with the competition software right now
on TORCS 1.3.1 and, at some point, we will switch to TORCS 1.3.3, we expect
the change to be completely transparent to you (apart from the need to
re-install a different version of TORCS).

Hope it helps.
Best,
Daniele

PS. If you are interested in the competition, I will recommend you to stay
tuned on http://www.geccocompetitions.com/ (we will announce all the news
about competitions there... including the Simulated Car Racing).



On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 4:08 AM, James Ihrig <je...@gm...> wrote:

> Thank you, that was quite helpful and I think it definitely pointed me in
> the right direction. I see that the types of sensors I am looking for are
> commonly provided by competition software. I grabbed the latest linux patch
> I could find in the CIG link you gave me. However, it seems to work with
> version 1.3.1, not the latest version 1.3.3.
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/cig/files/SCR%20Championship/
>
> Does anyone know if there is a patch for the latest version floating
> around somewhere?
>
> I'm looking into what it's going to take to make the fixes myself, but
> given my unfamiliarity with the project, it looks like a bit more than I
> bargained for. (Despite the diffs available.) If there is no patch, I may
> just go back to 1.3.1, so it's not the end of the world if there isn't one.
>
> -Jim
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Bernhard Wymann <be...@bl...> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jim
>>
>>
>> On 10/08/2012 04:32 AM, James Ihrig wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> I am looking to train some neural networks to drive vehicles in Torcs. I
>>> have a TON of questions, hopefully someone can answer at least a few for
>>> me. I've been digging into the code for about a week now and have
>>> amassed plenty of questions. I apologize an advance for the length.
>>>
>>> *First some background:*
>>>
>>>
>>> I have found a program that implements HyperNEAT that I would like to
>>> use in conjunction with torcs. This program however is just that, a
>>> program, not a library. So I will be looking to run it as a program
>>> simultaneously with torcs, and have the two processes communicate with
>>> eachother via XML.
>>>
>>> To do this, I would like to:
>>>
>>> 1) Read XML configuration and populate drivers with neural network data.
>>> (One driver per race.)
>>> 2) Skip all menu's, and go straight to some default race.
>>> 3) Run a race until X time has passed, or Y laps complete.
>>> 4) Write results to XML and wait for new configuration to re-populate
>>> drivers with neural network data.
>>>
>>> rinse and repeat.
>>>
>>> Right now, I'm just trying to see if I can skip the menus and read in
>>> the XML file at an appropriate place. (I see ANN.cpp and ANN.h specify
>>> an loadANN() function, but I don't see the file format specified
>>> anywhere.)
>>>
>>
>> Command line mode exists since TORCS 1.3.3, see
>> http://torcs.sourceforge.net/**index.php?name=Sections&op=**
>> viewarticle&artid=30#c6_7<http://torcs.sourceforge.net/index.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=30#c6_7>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have found what looks to be a way to skip the menus. I have tried to
>>> call torcs with
>>> torcs -r $FULL_PATH_TO_SRC/quickrace.**xml
>>> and got the message:
>>> Human drivers not allowed in console race, fix race setup.
>>> Which tells me I'm probably on the right track, but I can't find any
>>> documentation on how or what to change to fix the setup.
>>>
>>
>> Just open TORCS as usual and configure the race, this will alter the XML,
>> the message means that no human driver is allowed in a command line race (I
>> thought this is straightforward;-) ), so just remove the human driver from
>> the race ("Player" in the standard distribution without adding more
>> players), then it will work.
>>
>> Beware, on Windows Vista or higher the virtual store might be a bit
>> confusing, but if you pass the right file, it will work.
>>
>>  Also, I have already created a driver that attempts to follow the center
>>> of the road using a basic tutorial I have found.
>>> *
>>> My actual questions:*
>>>
>>> Is there any UML documentation for the control flow of the program?
>>>
>>
>> No. But various people have drawn some things in the past, have a look at
>> the existing papers (English wikipedia entry, http://sourceforge.net/**
>> projects/cig/files/ <http://sourceforge.net/projects/cig/files/>).
>>
>>
>>  What would be the best way to start a race without going through menus?
>>>
>>> Is there a good way to restart a race after a race is completed without
>>> menus?
>>>
>>
>> See http://torcs.sourceforge.net/**index.php?name=Sections&op=**
>> viewarticle&artid=30#c6_8<http://torcs.sourceforge.net/index.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=30#c6_8>,
>> basically you can taylor the race state engine to your needs.
>>
>>
>>  On a race restart, I will need a new ANN, which I can read from a file,
>>> which holds about 100 individual AI's to test. Is there a way I can
>>> track how many I've tested? Is 'index' in Driver::newrace(int index,
>>> tCarElt* car, tSituation *s) something I can use for this? (I can't find
>>> documentation saying what index is.)
>>>
>>
>> I guess no, have a look into the robot tutorial. A module (so, dll) can
>> currently handle up to 10 robots, so to know which one is meant to drive
>> the index is given. You can save something during the shutdown of your
>> module, e.g. see the bt robots distributed with TORCS, they save a "karma"
>> file.
>>
>>
>>  Are there any pre-existing classes that are good for detecting
>>> environment such as track edges? (range finders?)
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=FKAULFV8tXw&feature=related<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKAULFV8tXw&feature=related>
>>>
>>> If not, is there an easy way to find a track edge to do an intersection
>>> test of my own with?
>>>
>>
>> No idea, but as well here you could find something:
>> http://sourceforge.net/**projects/cig/files/<http://sourceforge.net/projects/cig/files/>
>>
>>
>>  Any help would be appreciated, even if it's just pointing to new
>>> documentation I haven't yet found.
>>>
>>
>> - English wikipedia entry (TORCS, uppercase)
>> - http://sourceforge.net/**projects/cig/files/<http://sourceforge.net/projects/cig/files/>
>> - http://cig.dei.polimi.it/
>> - http://games.ws.dei.polimi.it/**competitions/scr/<http://games.ws.dei.polimi.it/competitions/scr/>
>>
>> Hope this helps
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Bernhard
>>
>
>
>
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>

Thank you, that was quite helpful and I think it definitely pointed me in
the right direction. I see that the types of sensors I am looking for are
commonly provided by competition software. I grabbed the latest linux patch
I could find in the CIG link you gave me. However, it seems to work with
version 1.3.1, not the latest version 1.3.3.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/cig/files/SCR%20Championship/

Does anyone know if there is a patch for the latest version floating around
somewhere?

I'm looking into what it's going to take to make the fixes myself, but
given my unfamiliarity with the project, it looks like a bit more than I
bargained for. (Despite the diffs available.) If there is no patch, I may
just go back to 1.3.1, so it's not the end of the world if there isn't one.

-Jim

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Bernhard Wymann <be...@bl...> wrote:

> Hi Jim
>
>
> On 10/08/2012 04:32 AM, James Ihrig wrote:
>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I am looking to train some neural networks to drive vehicles in Torcs. I
>> have a TON of questions, hopefully someone can answer at least a few for
>> me. I've been digging into the code for about a week now and have
>> amassed plenty of questions. I apologize an advance for the length.
>>
>> *First some background:*
>>
>>
>> I have found a program that implements HyperNEAT that I would like to
>> use in conjunction with torcs. This program however is just that, a
>> program, not a library. So I will be looking to run it as a program
>> simultaneously with torcs, and have the two processes communicate with
>> eachother via XML.
>>
>> To do this, I would like to:
>>
>> 1) Read XML configuration and populate drivers with neural network data.
>> (One driver per race.)
>> 2) Skip all menu's, and go straight to some default race.
>> 3) Run a race until X time has passed, or Y laps complete.
>> 4) Write results to XML and wait for new configuration to re-populate
>> drivers with neural network data.
>>
>> rinse and repeat.
>>
>> Right now, I'm just trying to see if I can skip the menus and read in
>> the XML file at an appropriate place. (I see ANN.cpp and ANN.h specify
>> an loadANN() function, but I don't see the file format specified
>> anywhere.)
>>
>
> Command line mode exists since TORCS 1.3.3, see
> http://torcs.sourceforge.net/**index.php?name=Sections&op=**
> viewarticle&artid=30#c6_7<http://torcs.sourceforge.net/index.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=30#c6_7>
>
>
>
>> I have found what looks to be a way to skip the menus. I have tried to
>> call torcs with
>> torcs -r $FULL_PATH_TO_SRC/quickrace.**xml
>> and got the message:
>> Human drivers not allowed in console race, fix race setup.
>> Which tells me I'm probably on the right track, but I can't find any
>> documentation on how or what to change to fix the setup.
>>
>
> Just open TORCS as usual and configure the race, this will alter the XML,
> the message means that no human driver is allowed in a command line race (I
> thought this is straightforward;-) ), so just remove the human driver from
> the race ("Player" in the standard distribution without adding more
> players), then it will work.
>
> Beware, on Windows Vista or higher the virtual store might be a bit
> confusing, but if you pass the right file, it will work.
>
>  Also, I have already created a driver that attempts to follow the center
>> of the road using a basic tutorial I have found.
>> *
>> My actual questions:*
>>
>> Is there any UML documentation for the control flow of the program?
>>
>
> No. But various people have drawn some things in the past, have a look at
> the existing papers (English wikipedia entry, http://sourceforge.net/**
> projects/cig/files/ <http://sourceforge.net/projects/cig/files/>).
>
>
>  What would be the best way to start a race without going through menus?
>>
>> Is there a good way to restart a race after a race is completed without
>> menus?
>>
>
> See http://torcs.sourceforge.net/**index.php?name=Sections&op=**
> viewarticle&artid=30#c6_8<http://torcs.sourceforge.net/index.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=30#c6_8>,
> basically you can taylor the race state engine to your needs.
>
>
>  On a race restart, I will need a new ANN, which I can read from a file,
>> which holds about 100 individual AI's to test. Is there a way I can
>> track how many I've tested? Is 'index' in Driver::newrace(int index,
>> tCarElt* car, tSituation *s) something I can use for this? (I can't find
>> documentation saying what index is.)
>>
>
> I guess no, have a look into the robot tutorial. A module (so, dll) can
> currently handle up to 10 robots, so to know which one is meant to drive
> the index is given. You can save something during the shutdown of your
> module, e.g. see the bt robots distributed with TORCS, they save a "karma"
> file.
>
>
>  Are there any pre-existing classes that are good for detecting
>> environment such as track edges? (range finders?)
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=FKAULFV8tXw&feature=related<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKAULFV8tXw&feature=related>
>>
>> If not, is there an easy way to find a track edge to do an intersection
>> test of my own with?
>>
>
> No idea, but as well here you could find something:
> http://sourceforge.net/**projects/cig/files/<http://sourceforge.net/projects/cig/files/>
>
>
>  Any help would be appreciated, even if it's just pointing to new
>> documentation I haven't yet found.
>>
>
> - English wikipedia entry (TORCS, uppercase)
> - http://sourceforge.net/**projects/cig/files/<http://sourceforge.net/projects/cig/files/>
> - http://cig.dei.polimi.it/
> - http://games.ws.dei.polimi.it/**competitions/scr/<http://games.ws.dei.polimi.it/competitions/scr/>
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Best regards
>
> Bernhard
>

Hi Jim

On 10/08/2012 04:32 AM, James Ihrig wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I am looking to train some neural networks to drive vehicles in Torcs. I
> have a TON of questions, hopefully someone can answer at least a few for
> me. I've been digging into the code for about a week now and have
> amassed plenty of questions. I apologize an advance for the length.
>
> *First some background:*
>
> I have found a program that implements HyperNEAT that I would like to
> use in conjunction with torcs. This program however is just that, a
> program, not a library. So I will be looking to run it as a program
> simultaneously with torcs, and have the two processes communicate with
> eachother via XML.
>
> To do this, I would like to:
>
> 1) Read XML configuration and populate drivers with neural network data.
> (One driver per race.)
> 2) Skip all menu's, and go straight to some default race.
> 3) Run a race until X time has passed, or Y laps complete.
> 4) Write results to XML and wait for new configuration to re-populate
> drivers with neural network data.
>
> rinse and repeat.
>
> Right now, I'm just trying to see if I can skip the menus and read in
> the XML file at an appropriate place. (I see ANN.cpp and ANN.h specify
> an loadANN() function, but I don't see the file format specified anywhere.)

Command line mode exists since TORCS 1.3.3, see 
http://torcs.sourceforge.net/index.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=30#c6_7

>
> I have found what looks to be a way to skip the menus. I have tried to
> call torcs with
> torcs -r $FULL_PATH_TO_SRC/quickrace.xml
> and got the message:
> Human drivers not allowed in console race, fix race setup.
> Which tells me I'm probably on the right track, but I can't find any
> documentation on how or what to change to fix the setup.

Just open TORCS as usual and configure the race, this will alter the 
XML, the message means that no human driver is allowed in a command line 
race (I thought this is straightforward;-) ), so just remove the human 
driver from the race ("Player" in the standard distribution without 
adding more players), then it will work.

Beware, on Windows Vista or higher the virtual store might be a bit 
confusing, but if you pass the right file, it will work.

> Also, I have already created a driver that attempts to follow the center
> of the road using a basic tutorial I have found.
> *
> My actual questions:*
> Is there any UML documentation for the control flow of the program?

No. But various people have drawn some things in the past, have a look 
at the existing papers (English wikipedia entry, 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/cig/files/).

> What would be the best way to start a race without going through menus?
>
> Is there a good way to restart a race after a race is completed without
> menus?

See 
http://torcs.sourceforge.net/index.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=30#c6_8, 
basically you can taylor the race state engine to your needs.

> On a race restart, I will need a new ANN, which I can read from a file,
> which holds about 100 individual AI's to test. Is there a way I can
> track how many I've tested? Is 'index' in Driver::newrace(int index,
> tCarElt* car, tSituation *s) something I can use for this? (I can't find
> documentation saying what index is.)

I guess no, have a look into the robot tutorial. A module (so, dll) can 
currently handle up to 10 robots, so to know which one is meant to drive 
the index is given. You can save something during the shutdown of your 
module, e.g. see the bt robots distributed with TORCS, they save a 
"karma" file.

> Are there any pre-existing classes that are good for detecting
> environment such as track edges? (range finders?)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKAULFV8tXw&feature=related
>
> If not, is there an easy way to find a track edge to do an intersection
> test of my own with?

No idea, but as well here you could find something: 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/cig/files/

> Any help would be appreciated, even if it's just pointing to new
> documentation I haven't yet found.

- English wikipedia entry (TORCS, uppercase)
- http://sourceforge.net/projects/cig/files/
- http://cig.dei.polimi.it/
- http://games.ws.dei.polimi.it/competitions/scr/

Hope this helps

Best regards

Bernhard