La grande estasi di Robert Carmichael

i would like to say i think this film is soulless empty and devoid of any emotional depth, i don't know if that is the point but i thought it was stunning.

For me the whole point of it was this is what life is like for many, the uber violence of Kubrick clockwork orange was about the future, this is the same in this film but it is about the present.

Those who hate it for this, is a good thing. I personally recognise many of the characters in this film, the fact that they are emotionally underdeveloped is the point.

I thought this film was nothing short of brilliant. It was horrible to watch at times but that doesn't make it a bad film and as for people complaining about a weak supporting cast well ffs i don't think they had a Hollywood budget.

the more films like this the better

Well done Thomas Clay

I was instantly pleased to see "music by Elgar, Harvey, And Purcell.", bizarre because the non classic music is not given credit here, but immediately recognizable to me were these 3 names in classic music, which does play a strong role in this film,

This is really quite a remarkable film in it's stylistic presentation, which admittedly will not be to everyone's taste, but once accepted, which shouldn't be hard to do as it is a fairly unique style of shooting, a lot can be derived from it. In terms of shock value, you have to respect this film which has clearly overlooked the clumsy and obvious (showing lots of scenes of blood and gore) Most of the movie is filmed with very long wide shot screens, quite similar to the cold surgeons precision style of filming by michael haeneke, and by this, virtually all violence is obscured. Clay took the style into great perspective, giving it strong meaning combined with the material.

Obviously, this style of long shot scenes, never showing us EVERYTHING that's going on in terms of action, but showing us more in terms of the scene, will not appeal to some and become boring. I LOVE long shots as there is no camera trickery involved like in most mainstream films. I also love long scenes. The most fascinating aspect of this style is the way each scene is prepositioned, slowly driving forth a plot sequence where you are unsure of where it is going or if it even has a purpose, giving rise to your own instincts, but you feel very much a part of the scene yourself until finally the purpose is shown, which to me, leads to suspense. For example, a scene near the beginning where a woman is getting gas, and a man seems to be looking at her. All is unclear and seems pointless, but the next scene she is in the car and says "bastard" implying that he was veering at her in a creepy manner, Which first off is an ingenious way to let you put yourself in a woman's shoes, as much of the violence in here is directed against women.

The very best scene to me was the party scene where you have the 3 characters, the dj, Robert, and the Spanish owner (who was like a Harvey Keitel clone from Taxi Drvier) in the same room, as something horrible is happening in the room next. (What are they thinking.... will they do something? ...and then 8 minutes later it happens.) In this scene he shows slight surrealism as the lights dim slowly before the scene ends and the 2 advance as does the camera. Genius

The few bad points are, I think at times he got too involved with this style (the long shot of Robert jacking off with the door open) I also thought it was denying the viewer something without showing us the lads breaking into the house. Instead it was just suddenly "BOOM.... we're in your room... sorry to wake you, but now you're in hell." Also, though it is definitely plausible, it was pushy to have the search party for the missing girl to cross paths with the 3 boys who were drugged out in a park and about to soon commit a very violent crime themselves.

Another aspect is every time the TV is on, there is news reports of the war in Iraq, which is very interesting because this was around the time where the message was "We just toppled Saddam, we're heroes of the world." We know how that went. This can be interpreted tons of ways and people have said it seems contrived and indeed it is, but as it does not inherently have anything to do with the story it doesn't matter, and is simply interesting to have in there, gets our thoughts going, and adds to the bizarre way that this film seems documentary-like.

Untimately this film is a very strong and innovative character study, and I cannot understand how the acting can be criticized. If the dialogue seems trite in places, then it is, but it is not unrealistic and neither is the prospect of a teen, who seems to have a good future and good grades, falling out to violence or mediocrity, like others have said, likely simply because they have never been in that situation. I knew a girl in school who was a straight A student until the very last year where she couldn't handle the pressure. I'll never forget the phrase one of the "IN" kids said to me, who had made me an object of humour, but really was only in it for himself and not trying to degrade anyone. "are you going to let people push you around your whole life." It is a phrase very relevant to me and perhaps everyone, and certainly in this film, as the desire to be SOMEBODY, to not be pushed around can often lead to painful and senseless violence that will be regretted. Robert punching out the kid hogging the video camera, who is getting his own way when the teacher won't step in, was very exemplary of this and foreshadowing of the true crime to take place later.

In short, if you cant handle teens swearing, if you take no interest in their troubled lives and ultimately cannot handle the IDEA of sexual violence, as it is not even brutally shown, you need to give this film a miss and watch a film about grannies, or James Bond who has a hilarious wisecrack every time he brutally kills someone. These teens are 100% realistic, effectively giving us a lesson too strongly crafted for this film to be dismissed, as it's frankly much more intelligent, much more coherently put together, and had a much more plausible plot line than most films made, including some in the top 250 on this site.

I am always wary of taking too instant a dislike to a film. Look at it a month later and you might see it differently, or dig it up after 50 years in a different continent and some cult followers find something stylistically remarkable that went unnoticed at first. After sitting through The Great Ecstasy of Robert Carmichael at its UK premiere, it came as no surprise to me that I found the question and answer session afterwards more interesting than the film itself. Shane Danielsen (Artistic Director of the Edinburgh International Film Festival), aided by the film's director and producer, gave a spirited defence of a movie than received an overall negative response from the audience. Edinburgh Festival audiences are not easily shocked. Only one person walked out in disgust. The criticisms of the film included very articulate and constructive ones from the lay public as well as an actor and a woman who teaches M.A. film directors. This was not an overly 'shocking' film. There was a degree of uninterrupted sexual violence, but far less extreme than many movies (most actual weapon contact was obscured, as were aroused genitals). The audience disliked it because they had sat through two hours that were quite boring, where the acting standards were not high, where the plot was poor, predictable and drawn out, and where they had been subjected to clumsy and pretentious film-making on the promise of a controversial movie. Metaphors to the war in Iraq are contrived, over-emphasised and sloppy (apart from a general allusion to violence, any deeper meaning is unclear); and the 'fig-leaf' reference Marquis de Sade, as one audience member put it, seems a mere tokenistic excuse for lack of plot development towards the finale.

We have the story of an adolescent who has a certain amount going for him (he stands out at school for his musical ability) but takes drugs and hangs out with youths who have little or nothing going for them and whose criminal activities extend to rape and violence. When pushed, Robert seems to have a lot of violence locked inside him.

The film is not entirely without merit. The audience is left to decide how Robert got that way: was it the influence of his peers? Why did all the good influences and concern from parents and teachers not manage to include him in a better approach to life? Cinematically, there is a carefully-montaged scene where he hangs back (whether through too much drugs, shyness, a latent sense of morality or just waiting his turn?). Several of his friends are raping a woman in a back room, partly glimpsed and framed in the centre of the screen. In the foreground of the bare bones flat, a DJ is more concerned that the girl's screams interrupt his happy house music than with any thought for the woman. Ultimately he is a bit annoyed if their activities attract police attention. The stark juxtaposition of serious headphones enjoyment of his music even when he knows a rape is going on points up his utter disdain in a deeply unsettling way. Robert slumps with his back to us in the foreground.

But the rest of the film, including its supposedly controversial climax involving considerable (if not overly realistic) sexual violence, is not up to this standard. Some people have had a strong reaction to it (the filmmakers' stated intention: "If they vomit, we have succeeded in producing a reaction") but mostly - and as far as I can tell the Edinburgh reaction seems to mirror reports from Cannes - they feel, "Why have programmers subjected us to such inferior quality film-making?" Director Clay Hugh can talk the talk but has not developed artistic vision. His replies about holding up a mirror to life to tell the truth about things that are swept under the carpet, even his defence that there is little plot development because he didn't want to do a standard Hollywood movie - all are good answers to criticisms, but unfortunately they do not apply to his film, any more than they do to holding up a mirror while someone defecates, or wastes film while playing ineptly with symbols. Wanting to try and give him the benefit of any lingering doubt, I spoke to him for a few minutes after the screening, but I found him as distasteful as his movie and soon moved to the bar to wash my mouth out with something more substantial. There are many truths. One aspect of art is to educate, another to entertain, another to inspire. I had asked him if he had any social or political agenda and he mentions Ken Loach (one of the many great names he takes in vain) without going so far as to admit any agenda himself. He then falls back on his mantra about his job being to tell the truth. I am left with the feeling that this was an overambitious project for a new director, or else a disingenuous attempt to put himself on the map by courting publicity for second rate work

Andy Warhol could paint a tin of soup and it was art. Clay Hugh would like to emulate the great directors that have made controversial cinema and pushed boundaries. Sadly, his ability at the moment only extends to making high-sounding excuses for a publicity-seeking film.

I am liberal. I have always taken pride in my ability to keep a certain intellectual clarity when confronted by a particularly provocative work of art. I love art - whether movies, paintings or novels - and I believe that art is not art unless it provokes some kind of reaction, positive or negative.

Yet I must confess that "the scene" at the end of this film pushed my own flexible limits of stomachability. I won't describe the scene in any detail - you just have to see it yourself - but let me say that I have never, or may never again, be witness to such a finger-curlingly, teeth-clenchingly HORRIBLE act of violence on the big screen.

The visual presentation of the wine bottle moment was shocking enough, yet it was it's complete unpremeditatedness, it's coming like a knife out of a dark room, (even after the rape) that really threw me.

The film finished two hours ago and my head is still reeling. I will not attempt to rationalize or explain the morality or acceptability of such a closing scene: it is a purely subjective exercise, dependant on the viewer's own values and tastes. This was a point made by the writer and director in the heated Q & A which followed. They refused in any way to give an answer to the most prescient question: WHY? And they're right. The whole point is that the film, as a work of art, which, if flawed, I believe it is, does not answer questions but poses them. Questions not about society or the causes of violence, but about art itself. You cannot watch this film without having to deeply reconsider your understanding of the scope of the much-overused term "Art".

Finally, I would like to say that it's a great shame that the only thing people will talk about is the final scene. The rest of the film is a beautifully shot, clever, and above all, authentic take on life in a debilitated British seaside town, not unlike the town I grew up in. If it had somehow ended differently, I am quite sure it would now be receiving rave reviews from those liberal-minded critics who salivate at the mention of a gritty, British, class-driven drama.

But as it is, a lot of good stuff is about to be swallowed in the growing whirlwind of controversy, and, at best, the film will be consigned to 'risque' or 'cult' territory in our cultural estimations. A shame indeed.

A promising young violinist wrecks his life by hanging around with the wrong crowd. From taking drugs to skipping school, these lads think they're real hard cases. They won't listen to any authority figure, treat women as disposable sexual play-things and live completely on the outside of society. Nothing new there then. In fact, I think I live down the street from a few individuals just like that. However, I reckon even those scumbags draw a line at what this gang gets up to in the violent climax here...

Oh yes, the controversial ending. Surely if you'd looked up this obscure film on IMDb you must have heard about it. You know, the champagne bottle? The golden shower? The deadly assault with a kissing fish? Yep, it's all very upsetting what happens to this poor innocent couple, but call me a monster if you wish because I felt strangely unmoved. Maybe if the characters were better fleshed out and hadn't been a stereotype of every yob or yuppy I know I would have been sucked into the action more. As things stand though...

This was little more than an hour and a half of teens behaving badly before finally being tipped over the edge by an ex-jailbird, played by Danny Dyer who continues his incredible streak of never having appeared in a film I like. The transformation of these kids from simple garden thugs to murderous deviants is more than a little unconvincing, but at least it livens things up as for most of it's length TGEORC can at best be described as moribund. It feels like a Crimewatch reenactment, using the same actors they get from the programme. If you've ever seen an episode, you know that's not a compliment. Let's face it, if the best thing about a film is it's title, you know you're in trouble. Avoid avoid avoid... 3/10

P.S The final nail in the coffin for me was the quotation they give you, just before the credits roll. It has to rank as one of the most pretentious things I've ever seen, and tries to give the film a layer of substantialness it doesn't deserve. Dear oh dear...