Lake of Fire

when i first heard that Tony Kaye – who, let's remember, first made the scene as a self-proclaimed "hype artist" – was releasing a documentary about abortion, i was understandably skeptical. turns out my apprehension wasn't necessary. this is a level-headed, even-handed analysis of a difficult and complex subject. regardless of where you might fall on the spectrum of debate, this film will raise questions that deserve reflection. and, needless to say, this is an issue which warrants attention and discussion – at the heart of the issue are some of the most fundamental questions about life; surrounding the issue, however, are myriad paradoxes, contradictions, and dilemmas... if the details and gray areas seem unresolvable, how does one contend with the big picture? the speakers assembled represent the range and nuances of the debate well; some of the images are graphic but integral; and for the most part the irrationality and unhinged emotion that often cloud this subject are avoided. i wonder about the use of B&W, both from a theoretical standpoint (the obvious point that this is not a B&W issue, for instance – or is that meant ironically? – but also the fact that some footage from primary sources had to be manipulated into B&W which might raise some thoughts about documentary technique) and from an artistic standpoint (B&W often providing a feeling of remove between viewer and image, lacking the immediacy of color... although, with this subject, perhaps making use of this sense of remove is a wise choice). this is a film which deserves to be seen – which also deserves to be widely shown in schools – but will probably never find a large audience. and – i'm only speculating here – my guess is that most of those audience members will be primarily from one side of the spectrum.

It seems fitting that I watched this on the very day that I read about the atrocious state of child protection in Oklahoma. It is a reminder of the definition of "Pro-Life" that I believe so strongly: they only care about life before it is born, and are not concerned with life after birth.

It was an outstanding documentary that gave both sides of the issue, even to the point of showing an actual abortion being performed. I could have done without that. This is however, the definitive film on the issue.

Some may consider it slanted as it showed the pro-life advocates as crazy loons, but when they are self-confessed bigots like leader Randall Terry, and Klan members/ministers like John Burk that consider murderers "patriots," what else can you call them. This film will give you a good picture of where this issue started, and why it continues to this day. You will learn just who is keeping this alive and their reasons for doing so. You will also be well informed on the types of people who are using this issue for their personal causes.

Great film to educate you on this sensitive issue.

I saw a few people on here proclaiming themselves as pro-life and panning the film for supposedly being biased against their view.

First of all, purely on balance alone I'd say the film is equal to both sides. It's just that most of the stuff which makes you want to be pro-life comes at the beginning of the film while most of the content which makes you want to be pro-choice comes in the second half. It seems to me that they're just upset that their side didn't get the proverbial last word.

Secondly, this film is not about balance anyway. It's about documenting the cultural debate in the film about abortion in America. Whether one or two dissenting reviewers of this film are or not, the fact is that most of the pro-life advocates are Christian religious fringe. Of course there are exceptions, and they document that in the movie. Although I don't think Kaye should have given an hour to the secular atheist pro-lifers, because frankly there aren't that many of them.

The criticism also seem to come from people who don't even understand any points being made in the movie -- one reviewer claimed that Chomsky was comparing abortion to a woman washing her hands. That's not what he was doing at all. His example was made to demonstrate the relativity involved with the process of placing value on life.

In any event, the film definitely is a roller coaster ride, and there are times where you might find yourself at odds with your own opinion. The movie being as balanced as it is, probably wont change a lot of minds, but I would think at the very least it would soften your position one way or another. If it doesn't, you're either just stubborn, or you weren't even trying to pay attention to the message of the film.

Unlike some here, I'd say it's quite obvious which side of the debate Tony Kaye himself lies on; that of pro choice. Although it presents both sides of the argument, the only sane representatives are on the side of choice. Now I don't know enough about the pro-lifers to know if they're all as nutty as the people presented to us in this film. Some aren't quite as crazy, for instance Norma McCorvey, whose reasons for now being pro-life can be understood (she was basically pressured into feelings of guilt for her part in Roe v Wade) if not supported.

What most of this boils down to is religious fanaticism. The vast majority of the pro-lifers use religious 'teachings' as their argument for abolishing abortion rights. I say that it's unwise to base any serious decisions on something as debatable and dubious as anything the bible has to say. After all, the bible at various points would have whole tribes of people wiped from the face of the earth, it would sacrifice daughters to prevent men from making sodomites of themselves, 'god' turns a woman to a pillar of salt for the heinous crime of looking back at her home. Good grief, what a terrible sin! Almost as bad as committing blasphemy for which crime some in this film seemed to think it was acceptable to face the death penalty. We need to be worried about the religious fanatics in this country, not complacent about them. With Bush's encouragement they have grown in strength and the abortion fight is just a part of their whole game.

Tony Kaye did a brilliant job here of showing us all of that. Pro Lifers can't possibly be happy about this film, even though it doesn't candy coat anything - we get to see abortion in all its gory glory. Nevertheless, I feel that if someone is sitting on the fence about the issue and sees this film, they're unlikely to want to associate themselves with the crazies portrayed herein, especially the lunatic priest in Colorado who claims that abortion doctors are Satan worshipers who dangle the expelled fetus by the leg and then barbecue it. Clearly he's one or two marbles short! To summarize, this is an absorbing if somewhat long documentary which presents various arguments for and against abortion and satisfactorily raises most of the issues. Rent the video and devote an evening to watching it but be prepared to run the gamut of your emotions (whichever side of the issue you support), from anger to frustration, fascination to sadness.

The only thing important missing from the film is the impact that overturning Roe v Wade might have on the infertility industry. My husband and I had to resort to in vitro in order to conceive our twin boys. Four fertilized eggs were implanted in me. Fortunately, only two remained viable. But what if all four survived? I would have chosen to "reduce" the embryos. As it was my pregnancy was difficult. I went into pre-term labor at 28 weeks. At 32 weeks they had to induce as my babies were starting to kill me. Imagine if I hadn't had the option to "reduce" and all four implanted. What if the law required me to carry the fetuses until my life was in danger instead of "reducing" early in the pregnancy? Or, what if I had 14 embryos, 4 implanted and 10 frozen? Would the frozen ones then be considered "alive" and therefore could not be discarted? What would be the option then? Would I be prosecuted for 10 counts of murder? So I think the film needed to cover this aspect of the debate. Otherwise it was an exceptional documentary.