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Everyone who's seen "Decline" knows how great it is. My favorite segments are those featuring Black Flag and Fear, because they're the funniest and the most visceral. Still, all the bands that actually STARTED the Los Angeles punk scene, apart from the Germs, are missing from this film. Where are the Weirdos, the Screamers, the Dils, and the Zeros? The Alice Bag Band is here, but they were better when they were simply the Bags. The Germs' segment is depressing. The very brief glimpses of Catholic Discipline were fascinating and made me wish that this band had at least recorded some demos. As a documentary, "Decline" is flawed...but it's indispensable, too. To find out about the bands this film didn't cover, read "We Got the Neutron Bomb" by Marc Spitz and Brendan Mullen. And to see what was going on in San Francisco right around the same time, get the much shorter (but equally brilliant) documentary "Louder Faster Shorter", directed by Mindaugis Bagdon. This twenty-minute burst of pure punk actually *does* feature the Dils--along with UXA, the Avengers, the Sleepers, and the Mutants.

Let start off by first saying that I have been a punk fan most of my life. I always kind of had a lack of respect for the LA scene of the early 80's, which The Decline of Western Civilization documents, with the exception of X and Black Flag, being more of New York and English punk guy. After I saw this movie that completely changed. The people shown may look like a bunch of idiotic, strung out kids who think they might accomplish something beyond street-Cree through their lifestyles, but it is a great display of hedonism at it's best, coupled with some fun, loud rock n roll. One of the best scenes, and actually most insightful, is the interview with Claude Bessy of Catholic Discipline, or 'Kick-Boy' as he was known to Slash magazine readers. Originally from France, he rants about punk like a dirty old Frenchman and clues in viewers to many aspects of the punk, or DIY, attitude to music, politics, and life in general. Darby Crash of the Germs comes off as a complete idiot most of the time, but the Germs' performance of Manimal is pretty decent, complete with a young Pat Smear. Black Flag's performance with Chavo Pederast on vocals (it was filmed a couple of years before Henry Rollins joined the band) is decent, and X and FEAR give the best performances in the movie. Look out for the interviews with the young punk kids. You'll hear some of the funniest things you have ever heard in a documentary. Highly recommended.

Nothing in this world is going to make you think your personal is not valid. While many people will willfully put you down and say this about certain things, ultimately the individual has the final say on their preferences. The only real caveat to enjoying the things you enjoy, is how accepted is it in the mainstream society? We currently live in a world where bland pop singers are labeled as generational talents, even if their music is a focused grouped crime against humanity. So when hardcore and punk started becoming a thing in the mid to late 70s, it is easy to imagine the pristine ivory towers of music labels scratching their head when they first heard these assaults to the senses. It was not for the masses, and regardless of how hard many in today's nostalgic driven culture will try, punk and hardcore will always be their own thing.

What I especially liked was the brutal and no holds barred look into the lives of these rock pioneers. No lavish life styles to speak of, daily struggle with finances and definite addictions. While the people involved have a rather sad view of the world, they don't seem to have any direction in regards to fixing the issues. Nihilism is a hell of a drug, which is most likely what they are high off of.

I will say this. Watching this documentary gives you the perspective of how hard it is to go against the grain.

When it comes to films on the L.A. hardcore scene of the late 70s/early 80s this is as good as it gets! It's very rare that cameras are around during the genesis of a music movement, and I will be forever grateful that Ms Sheeris was there to capture the beginnings of the LA hardcore scene that was growing out of the ideals and influences of the dying New York & London punk scenes. I was living on the East Coast at the time this film came out, and back then the only way to see some of these bands, without going to L.A., was to see this film. It was a rare event when one of these bands would pile into a van and head east on a tour, so to fulfill our love for the L.A. hardcore scene my friends and I would go see this film every few weeks. This is a great document of that time in music history. For people who liked this era of punk/hardcore music, here's a few other very similar documentary films you might want to check out...

THE BLANK GENERATION - (70s New York punk - Johnny Thunders, Richard Hell, Ramones, Television, Patti Smith, etc...)

THE PUNK ROCK MOVIE - (70s British punk - Sex Pistols, The Clash, X-Ray Spex, Eater, etc...)

PUNK IN LONDON - (70s British punk - The Clash, The Adverts, The Lurkers, Subway Sect, etc...)

D.O.A. - (70s American & British punk - Dead Boys, Generation X, Sham 69, Iggy Pop, etc... *contains a priceless interview with Sid & Nancy*)

UK/DK - (80s British hardcore - The Addicts, The Exploited, The Business, UK Subs, etc...)

One of the major successes to The Decline of Western Civilization, filmmaker Penelope Spheeris' indie breakthrough, is that it can perhaps appeal to non-punk fans as to the hardcore ones. More importantly, it captures a moment in history before the movement became completely "market-worthy", when bands would play (or, at the least, try to play in some cases) in dank, dirty clubs to an audience that had as much self-respect as they had respect for the bands. For the fan, such as myself, there are precious interviews with some of the quasi-legends of LA's punk-scum, some dead, some still living and still hard-working in the scene.

Performances and interviews include the likes of The Circle Jerks, X, Black Flag (in the pre-Henry Rollins days), Catholic Discipline, Fear, the Alice Bag Band, and most memorable (in my opinion) being the Germs. While I knew of a few of the bands and performers in the film (The Jerks and Black Flag mostly), I had only heard rumors about lead singer (the late) Darby Crash, and from the footage in the film he seems to be one of the, if not the, epitomes of the punk movement. He doesn't take himself too seriously, he loves to drink, sometimes when he speaks it's complete gibberish, and the attitude he brings on stage is both funny and in a free-form way exhilarating. A performer like that would probably scare Steve Miller and Jackson Browne out of their skins.

Decline of Western Civilization may not turn on every non-punk fan that seeks this film out (it's hard to find on video), but it shouldn't necessarily turn them off either. Like a kind of anthropologist that's sneaked into the party, Spheeris gets the behavior of these people down pat, their motives, their likes and hatreds, and the power that was their on and off-screen personas. A few of them almost come off as normal, some don't, but they're only offensive to those who aren't too open to things. On top of that, the film is a must-see to the kinds of kids that think they're punk fans just because they listen to Good Charlotte and Blink-182: if you want to get the real scoop on the movement and genre of rock you profess to love, give the pioneers a chance. A

If I assume that you know what this film is about, I am also forced to assume that you've come to this review knowing that you will probably watch it regardless of what I say. If all this rings true - read on - you are likely to find some consonance with at least part of this review. If you're undecided, or not really entirely certain what happened in the late '70s and early '80s in the urban and suburban youth music culture, you should probably read one of the reviews which pretends to be objective instead.

Although I didn't grow up in California, the American punk scene was the first music scene I ever truly lived in. At the height of the hardcore I was immersed in from about 1979-1981 everybody had a band and the only common denominators between bands and indeed members of their audiences were:

* the rejection of conformity

* tolerance and enjoyment of difference

* a desire to have fun - hard and fast

Hairstyles, politics, dislike of authority figures, and violent slam-dancing were not integral to what I experienced, though there were certainly cliques or factions who tended to be intolerant of those who did not dress, speak or act "punk" enough. And there was often a certain amount of unearned credit extended from some of these cliques to those who tried really hard to live down to the fascistic paradigm of anarchic, self mutilating, angry young cop-haters.

Although the interviews with audience punks in Penelope Spheeris' excellent Cal-Punk documentary "Decline of Western Civilization" present a very narrow view of the subculture some of us enjoyed, the interviews with the bands, club owners, promoters and even the security people are much more representative of at least my own perspective and memories of 'the scene'. nevertheless, it is possible for those who approach this with prejudices about what punk is to experience this film without having their preconceptions challenged. Unfortunate as this is, the blame for it rests solely with those who promote, believe in or feel comfortable with stereotypes - Not the film-makers. Don't blame the messenger.

The music presented here is not going to be for everybody - nor even most. It's not the most crude stuff out there, but it's loud, obnoxious, fast, and less concerned with technique than with raw energy.

For me, seeing early Black Flag with Ron Reyes singing, X, Fear and the Circle Jerks was worth far more than the cost of this hard to obtain film. As much as I like The Germs, seeing Darby Crash for the mess - and the nice guy - that he was left me a bit cold. Nevertheless, the scenes of Darby playing with his pet tarantula while "Shut Down" droned on and on in the background were precious. The X interview is also great.

Spheeris' straightforward documentary style is supplemented by wild pans and zooms during the musical segments. During the interviews, framing is used very nicely to provide context for whatever is being said. Considering her experience and the budget, Spheeris did as well as anybody could have with this film.

Recommended for those who appreciate what this film is actually about, and for those who have forgotten those few years of fun, honest, direction-less rebellion before Amaerican punk was co-opted into yet another flow within the musical mainstream and the stereotypes became more important than the basic philosophy.

First off, let it be known that I came into this movie not for the music; actually I find it repugnant. Really, I was interested in the psychology of the punk subculture. On this point, the documentary did fairly well. One disagreeable aspect was the numerous scenes in which songs are played and the hyped-up band and belligerent crowd are shown running amok. If you've seen the first such scene, you've seen them all. This superfluity is party made up for by printing lyrics for some of the songs. With these, the audience is able to somewhat connect mentally with the band. The lyrics are of far more interest than the jumble of sounds projecting from the speakers. I don't know why all the lyrics were not printed. Scenes without lyrics slow (ironic eh?, given the many references to the speed of the music) the flow of the movie. Also insightful were the interviews with fans and bands, though there is a letdown when the latter band's interviews prove to be not nearly as enthralling or humorous as the first two. Overall, a good movie that I'm glad I saw. I'll check out the follow-ups if I ever get a chance.

Favorite quote: He tried to hide the fact that he couldn't play by rubbing peanut butter over himself and breaking glass.

Broad punk generalization: Though their disgracefulness, lack of vocabulary and hygiene, and drug-induced obliviousness is often hilarious, in the end it is understood that punks are just pathetic juveniles who rebel just for the sake of rebellion as seen through sophomoric lyrics and naive attempts to philosophize and politicize (disregarding Black Flag, who are slightly less misguided than their peers).

Kind of a guilty indulgence nowadays, this used to be required watching when i was in high school. It really is a great illumination of the burgeoning punk scene in LA in 1980. As the bands play, Spheeris prints the lyrics in subtitles, which is of course necessary if one really wants to know what the guy is screaming into the microphone. But also it turns the camera's POV into that of tourist, passing through this alien world. The band interviews reveal an honest approach to the music that really doesn't exist anymore. Then again, it's not as easy to come by $16/month former-church closets like Chavez of Black Flag does. How many unheard of bands do you know that aren't trying like the dickens to get a record deal? These guys just didn't care. And who can't love the commentary of the little French dude who used to be the "singer" for Catholic Discipline (of which Phranc was a member). His gritty voice delivers one of the best soliloquies ever captured on film: "I have excellent news for the world ... there's no such thing as New Wave." Whew! What a relief!

Penelope Spheeris (of "Wayne's World" fame) made her mark with the documentary "The Decline of Western Civilization", about the LA punk scene in the late '70s and early '80s. Most of the documentary features interviews with the punks and footage of concerts (which often turn violent). Overall, we get to see how the punk movement was a reaction to the hippies: whereas the hippies were into being natural, the punks wanted to have themselves as altered as possible, what with spiked hair and all. But also, we see how they're really disaffected and sometimes becoming skinheads.

Anyway, this is a really great time capsule. We're not really sure whether we want to long for that era or feel repulsed by it. But this is definitely not a documentary that will leave you neutral. Truly worth seeing.

I don't know why it took me so long to see this but it did. As someone who has been listening to punk since shortly after this came out you'd think I would would love this. You'd be wrong. I guess 40 years ago this was shocking, now it's just boring. There's a lot more music than I expected, about 20 full songs. Fear and the Circle Jerks are the only good bands so the performances are hard to watch. Black Flag was unlucky enough to be caught in the short period between Morris and Rollins leaving most younger people seeing it now asking who Reyes is. Most of the off stage time is spent on Darby Crash who is not cool, interesting or talented. The only reason to watch this is for the Fear performance.

Here is a great movie. Now, first of all, I would like to say that I was born in the early 1980s. I really never knew, up-close and personal, what true punk rock was. Watching this film was like a history lesson of sorts. The music was great, good vintage rock n' roll from bands like Black Flag, Circle Jerks, X, etc. It seemed to me that with this film, Penelope Spheeris was trying to show people that these weren't all just stupid kids who were out to do drugs and kill people. Some of these punks really had some philosophies that they were working at behind their music. This seems most evident in the interview with Black Flag. I understand myself how a lot of people might view these bands' philosophies as under-developed and simple, but one must take into account that these were some pretty young people. Nowadays, as young as I still am, I find it refreshing to run into someone my age who understands in any way philosophical thinking. In this movie, the young people may seem a little half-baked in their philosophies, but you might keep in mind that most kids don't even get that far. I've met many full-grown adults who have not progressed as far with deep thought contexts as some of the punk musicians in "Decline". Another thing I loved about this movie was how funny it got at times. Some of these kids were total idiots, while the story about the dead painter was devilishly humorous. Fear's performance at the end topped it all. Even if punk is dead, it was once very alive. All flaws aside, "The Decline of Western Civilization" was made for people who can tell the difference between some suburban wimp with a mohawk and the truly intelligent individuals who were genuinely upset and picked up music instruments as weapons against the forces of the corporate.

I LOVE this film. It was made JUST before the LA punk scene changed for the worse. It perfectly preserves the mood and attitude of that time and place. I feel really lucky to have been present at the filming of four of the bands at the Fleetwood that night. The only part that doesn't fit in too well is the sections with Catholic Disipline and their socio-political commentary. I didn't see too many people who were into that at all. The rest of the film shows attitudes that I witnessed a lot; people dealing with hard lives, or taking a swing at the music industry and/or lousy hippies. I don't think I've seen a documentary that captures so authentically and personally the subject matter being covered.

One of the best music documentaries, "The Decline of Western Civilization" highlights what made Punk so appealing and so repellent at the same time. Filmed at now long defunct bars and clubs like the Masque, Club 88 and Hong Kong Café the documentary is a blistering and propulsive glimpse into the experience of the legendary Los Angeles Punk scene and its wild heroes and heroines who kickstarted the myth. Featuring the greats and personal faves like Black Flag, Circle Jerks, Germs, Fear, X and second-tier interests like Catholic Discipline and the Alice Bag Band the film is a rambunctious assault to the senses with fierce and compelling live performances by the bands and revealing interviews.

This is the closest to getting you right into the mosh pit: Black Flag's and Circle Jerks' powerhouse sets that get the punks slam dancing and bashing each other's heads; X's tempered Rockabilly chugathon; the Germs' stunted incoherent rocking mess; Catholic Discipline's fun-killing New Wave explorations; the Alice Bag Band's last minute show-saver and the star of the show, Fear's hilarious riot-inducing show that proves right-wingers can rock too! Inserted like fierce middle fingers are interesting interviews of the acts showing a surprisingly geeky Black Flag, a normal but cool X, a fruity and refreshingly sober Darby Crash, and the staff of the seminal record label Slash including an odd Claude Bessy, aka Kickboy Face. The interviews of the fans and audience members show well-meaning but troubled kids coping with life's realities and how much the music means to them. The low budget look yet well-executed pace and edit of the film with its well-placed camera angles and raw, earnest and honest portrayals elevate the film above tacky representations common among depictions of the underground.

A relic of a bygone era that shaped and defined music and whose influence has had a profound impact since, "The Decline of Western Civilization" sets a light on what a small group of outcasts and misfits can do to liberate people's minds and lives and the immeasurable importance and benefit they instill.

Absolutely one of the 10 best music films Ever! A totally essential educational experience for any music fanatic--Especially young rock/punk fans today...understanding the beginnings of any particular "artistic" movement absolutely requires understanding the roots of the music,as well as the mindset and musical environment of the times....not to mention the political and social factors involved at the time. And,besides all that,this documentary is flat-out rock-n-roll F U N !! Do Not Miss It!!! that said,can anyone tell me when,if ever, "the decline of western civilization"...part 1,( Not part 2,the metal version) will be made available again..hopefully on DVD?

Before she made Wayne's World, Ms Spheeris documented the LA Punk scene with the kind of dead pan perspective that makes this the all time classic commercial punk rock documentary. Of course Target Video's concert footage of the Dead Kennedys or the Mutants live at a home for the insane are much better, but unless you live near Leather Tongue Video in San Francisco, you probably won't find those, so this one will have to do.

Best Irony: Members of a famous X-Punk band tattooing each other on a dirty couch while apparently under the influence of some processed opiate are talking about how pot makes hippies so pathetically passive that someone would come in and kick the shit out of them and all they'd say is "Bummer maaan." And then going on to a completely deadpan unemotional account of finding a dead guy in the back yard.

Definitely the best insight into the whole era. Sure The Great Rock and Roll Swindle is fun, but this one shows the whole scene unflinchingly from a neutral angle. The camera is on and everyone becomes an actor on their own stage.

Though I both am neither a punk aficionado (I have seen X live in Detroit in 2008) nor an expert on Spheeris' films (I have seen and enjoyed both 'Wayne's World' and 'Little Rascals'), this was very satisfying. The energy and spirit of these rebellious youths really comes across well, and the clever assertion from one of the interviewees that punk is simply another form of folk and protest music, albeit with different instruments and at a faster speed, rings true. Though I'm not privy to the Los Angeles scene (I'm from Windsor, Ontario, for crying out loud), it appears to be quite an accurate depiction, although it doesn't seem to grab hold, perhaps, of the underground movement. Seeing this, I look forward to the latter two parts of the trilogy, and only wish over the years that Spheeris had expanded her sights, and made documentaries of other, vital, forms of music in L.A., such as folk, hip-hop, rap, jazz, classical, experimental, even soundtrack work for films, since Hollywood is right nearby, and as someone already part of the filmmaking scene, she would have had access to some of the greats of our time.

Spheeris debut must be one of the best music documentaries of all time. And as far as I know it's also the only one that focuses on the L.A. Punk Explosion of the early eighties. It's all there: not just great, great bands like Black Flag, Fear, X, the Germs, whose names may not mean much to you today, but whose influence on today's alternative rock music can not be over-estimated, but also the promoters, the media and first of all the audiences - the punks - all portrayed in a manner that makes you laugh, shudder and gasp with astonishment about the energy, the anger and the fury these youths put into their music. Where is that today? The eighties may have sucked big time when it cames to mainstream music, but the underground was rocking. If you need a proof for that, watch Fear's performance in Decline. Unmatched. Great film! How come this is not available on vid, LD or DVD? P.S. The follow-up Decline Pt. II is hilarious, too

"The Decline of Western Civilization" is a very raw documentary about the punk rock scene in Los Angeles during the end of 1979 and the first few months of 1980. It chronicles six different bands; the members, their fans, their exploits. We get to know a little bit about how each of the bands came together and then we get to see them perform. As far as a concept, it's extraordinarily simple, but the execution is where this film really comes to life. What Spheeris ("Suburbia", "Wayne's World") has done is opened a door to another world, another way of living; she's humanized some of the outcasts in society, and in some instances made them seem a little more normal (in other cases, not so much). It examines the psyche of a punk rocker, looks at their reasons for why they feel so much anger and hate against the world as a whole, and it challenges it. The film is a fascinating look at a subculture that is both looked down upon and idolized at the same time. If you don't at least have somewhat of an interest in punk I can't see you enjoying this film, but if you do have an interest in the music, or maybe you're morbidly curious about that lifestyle, then I urge you to check it out.

The One and the Only!

The only really good description of the punk movement in the LA in the early 80's. Also, the definitive documentary about legendary bands like the Black Flag and the X. Mainstream Americans' repugnant views about this film are absolutely hilarious! How can music be SO diversive in a country of supposed liberty...even 20 years after...find out!

I saw this movie in the theater when I was 14 and it changed my life. I immediately cut off my hair and began buying all of the records of the bands in the movie. These were some of the seminal bands of L.A. punk rock caught on film at the peak of their powers. Bands like Black Flag (pre-Rollins), Circle Jerks, Fear, X, and the Germs have few equals in the history of punk music. I can't believe this film has never been put out on video or DVD. Great movie for fans of punk rock.

Punk is supposed to be hopeful and inspirational. It is supposed to be intelligent and empowering.

The rejection of fascism and materialism for genuinity. The ethic of DIY - Do It Yourself; Individuality is encouraged and the idea that everybody can accomplish things on their own. You don't have to rely on other people and you don't have to rely on the corporations - If you want to do something, you can show people an entirely brand new way of doing it.

Punk is about freethinking. And freedom. Both freedom on the physical plane and the mental. Punk rock is very hopeful indeed. And I would like to consider myself a fan of punk because all of these things resonate with me.

Which is why THIS DOCUMENTARY IS AWFUL. I couldn't even watch all of it. She makes punk people come across as complete idiots who just drink, do drugs and pick fights with people for NO REASON. That's all this documentary ever focuses on. And what's worst of all is that they can't even explain WHY they are fighting!

You have a kid who rants about how everyone is a "poser because they're wimpy" and when asked about why he is so angry: He replies that he DOESN'T KNOW. >_> The very definition of braindead. How can you possibly NOT know why you're angry!? It's like he's never even bothered to develop an advanced thought in his entire life and never even bothers with self-reflection.

I really hate the notion that punk people are supposed to be dumb drug addicts. It's an awful stereotype that this movie tries to put across as a general truth. And what makes it worse is all the other reviews talking about how this is "TRUE PUNK ROCK". It's not. It's a dilution of Sid Vicious and it's annoying to watch.

Punk isn't about teenage angst and beer. It's about making the world a better place while living for yourself.