The Great Ecstasy of Robert Carmichael

I am liberal. I have always taken pride in my ability to keep a certain intellectual clarity when confronted by a particularly provocative work of art. I love art - whether movies, paintings or novels - and I believe that art is not art unless it provokes some kind of reaction, positive or negative.

Yet I must confess that "the scene" at the end of this film pushed my own flexible limits of stomachability. I won't describe the scene in any detail - you just have to see it yourself - but let me say that I have never, or may never again, be witness to such a finger-curlingly, teeth-clenchingly HORRIBLE act of violence on the big screen.

The visual presentation of the wine bottle moment was shocking enough, yet it was it's complete unpremeditatedness, it's coming like a knife out of a dark room, (even after the rape) that really threw me.

The film finished two hours ago and my head is still reeling. I will not attempt to rationalize or explain the morality or acceptability of such a closing scene: it is a purely subjective exercise, dependant on the viewer's own values and tastes. This was a point made by the writer and director in the heated Q & A which followed. They refused in any way to give an answer to the most prescient question: WHY? And they're right. The whole point is that the film, as a work of art, which, if flawed, I believe it is, does not answer questions but poses them. Questions not about society or the causes of violence, but about art itself. You cannot watch this film without having to deeply reconsider your understanding of the scope of the much-overused term "Art".

Finally, I would like to say that it's a great shame that the only thing people will talk about is the final scene. The rest of the film is a beautifully shot, clever, and above all, authentic take on life in a debilitated British seaside town, not unlike the town I grew up in. If it had somehow ended differently, I am quite sure it would now be receiving rave reviews from those liberal-minded critics who salivate at the mention of a gritty, British, class-driven drama.

But as it is, a lot of good stuff is about to be swallowed in the growing whirlwind of controversy, and, at best, the film will be consigned to 'risque' or 'cult' territory in our cultural estimations. A shame indeed.

I am not unfamiliar with movies about rape, torture and violence. Even "Irreversible" makes some kind of sense to me, but this movie just feels so forced. Watching this, I got that whole way of filming; distant and cold. But even with movies like this, there is supposed to be some kind of.. level, where you can touch the material. And this film fell flat. I didn't get anything from this. Am I supposed to feel horrified for the sake of lost Youth? War happens, so let's get rapey and murderous? What the a f? Undeveloped characters and plot are my pet peeves and this film had both. So... NO.

I saw this movie on the film festival of Rotterdam (jan '06) and followed the discussion between director and public afterwards. Many people reacted shocked and protesting. He will get a lot of negative critics. But: the world is cruel like this, and it's not funny. People don't like it. That itself doesn't mean that the movie is bad. I can see that difference. Don't shoot the messenger that shows us the world outside our 'hubble'! Nevertheless I think this a bad movie. Film-technically it's a good one. Nice shots and script, most good fitting music, great actors. The director pretends to make a psychological movie, - the psychology however is of poor quality. Describing such a powerful violence itself is not the art. The art would be a powerful description of the psychological process behind that violence. How does a shy boy come to such a cruelty? The director pretends to describe that, - but is not good in that.

The director used several times the word the 'selfishness' of people, mentioning for instance the teacher. Only: this teacher wasn't selfish,- just someone in several roles, caring for his pupils, ánd worried about his script. I think it's a simplification to call him selfish. The atmosphere in the village is creepy, and the mother made awful mistakes ('you terribly let me down…') but it doesn't become believable for me, that there is caused súch a lot of pain, that the shyest boy comes to such terrible things. In fact, reality is far more complex than the way, this film describes – and it needs far better descriptions. The interesting thing would be: how does it work? Describe that process for me please, so that we understand.

With the written phrase on the end, the director said to point to an alternative way of life. It was the other extreme, and confirmed for me that director and scriptwriter are bad psychologists, promoting black/white-thinking. The connection between violence in films and in society has been proved. Use such a violence gives the responsibility to use it right. There are enough black/white-thinkers in the world, causing lots of war and misery. I hope, this movie won't be successful.

i would like to say i think this film is soulless empty and devoid of any emotional depth, i don't know if that is the point but i thought it was stunning.

For me the whole point of it was this is what life is like for many, the uber violence of Kubrick clockwork orange was about the future, this is the same in this film but it is about the present.

Those who hate it for this, is a good thing. I personally recognise many of the characters in this film, the fact that they are emotionally underdeveloped is the point.

I thought this film was nothing short of brilliant. It was horrible to watch at times but that doesn't make it a bad film and as for people complaining about a weak supporting cast well ffs i don't think they had a Hollywood budget.

the more films like this the better

Well done Thomas Clay

I was instantly pleased to see "music by Elgar, Harvey, And Purcell.", bizarre because the non classic music is not given credit here, but immediately recognizable to me were these 3 names in classic music, which does play a strong role in this film,

This is really quite a remarkable film in it's stylistic presentation, which admittedly will not be to everyone's taste, but once accepted, which shouldn't be hard to do as it is a fairly unique style of shooting, a lot can be derived from it. In terms of shock value, you have to respect this film which has clearly overlooked the clumsy and obvious (showing lots of scenes of blood and gore) Most of the movie is filmed with very long wide shot screens, quite similar to the cold surgeons precision style of filming by michael haeneke, and by this, virtually all violence is obscured. Clay took the style into great perspective, giving it strong meaning combined with the material.

Obviously, this style of long shot scenes, never showing us EVERYTHING that's going on in terms of action, but showing us more in terms of the scene, will not appeal to some and become boring. I LOVE long shots as there is no camera trickery involved like in most mainstream films. I also love long scenes. The most fascinating aspect of this style is the way each scene is prepositioned, slowly driving forth a plot sequence where you are unsure of where it is going or if it even has a purpose, giving rise to your own instincts, but you feel very much a part of the scene yourself until finally the purpose is shown, which to me, leads to suspense. For example, a scene near the beginning where a woman is getting gas, and a man seems to be looking at her. All is unclear and seems pointless, but the next scene she is in the car and says "bastard" implying that he was veering at her in a creepy manner, Which first off is an ingenious way to let you put yourself in a woman's shoes, as much of the violence in here is directed against women.

The very best scene to me was the party scene where you have the 3 characters, the dj, Robert, and the Spanish owner (who was like a Harvey Keitel clone from Taxi Drvier) in the same room, as something horrible is happening in the room next. (What are they thinking.... will they do something? ...and then 8 minutes later it happens.) In this scene he shows slight surrealism as the lights dim slowly before the scene ends and the 2 advance as does the camera. Genius

The few bad points are, I think at times he got too involved with this style (the long shot of Robert jacking off with the door open) I also thought it was denying the viewer something without showing us the lads breaking into the house. Instead it was just suddenly "BOOM.... we're in your room... sorry to wake you, but now you're in hell." Also, though it is definitely plausible, it was pushy to have the search party for the missing girl to cross paths with the 3 boys who were drugged out in a park and about to soon commit a very violent crime themselves.

Another aspect is every time the TV is on, there is news reports of the war in Iraq, which is very interesting because this was around the time where the message was "We just toppled Saddam, we're heroes of the world." We know how that went. This can be interpreted tons of ways and people have said it seems contrived and indeed it is, but as it does not inherently have anything to do with the story it doesn't matter, and is simply interesting to have in there, gets our thoughts going, and adds to the bizarre way that this film seems documentary-like.

Untimately this film is a very strong and innovative character study, and I cannot understand how the acting can be criticized. If the dialogue seems trite in places, then it is, but it is not unrealistic and neither is the prospect of a teen, who seems to have a good future and good grades, falling out to violence or mediocrity, like others have said, likely simply because they have never been in that situation. I knew a girl in school who was a straight A student until the very last year where she couldn't handle the pressure. I'll never forget the phrase one of the "IN" kids said to me, who had made me an object of humour, but really was only in it for himself and not trying to degrade anyone. "are you going to let people push you around your whole life." It is a phrase very relevant to me and perhaps everyone, and certainly in this film, as the desire to be SOMEBODY, to not be pushed around can often lead to painful and senseless violence that will be regretted. Robert punching out the kid hogging the video camera, who is getting his own way when the teacher won't step in, was very exemplary of this and foreshadowing of the true crime to take place later.

In short, if you cant handle teens swearing, if you take no interest in their troubled lives and ultimately cannot handle the IDEA of sexual violence, as it is not even brutally shown, you need to give this film a miss and watch a film about grannies, or James Bond who has a hilarious wisecrack every time he brutally kills someone. These teens are 100% realistic, effectively giving us a lesson too strongly crafted for this film to be dismissed, as it's frankly much more intelligent, much more coherently put together, and had a much more plausible plot line than most films made, including some in the top 250 on this site.