Dogma

Another vote from a cradle Catholic who was not remotely offended by this movie. Not that some of the negatives mentioned by other posters here aren't true -- yes, a lot of the humor is gross, yes, the F-word is overused, yes, its criticism of organized religion is less stinging that you'd expect (though that in itself is a slightly foolish expectation, given that the writer/director is himself an active member of an organized religion). And yes, if you're not Catholic, much of the movie is a little foggy, under-explained, and not very engaging. That last one I definitely agree with; I seriously doubt whether I'd recommend the film to a non-Catholic at all.

But, oh, God, I LOVED it, serious flaws and all! It's a huge chaotic mess with about sixty different trains of thought and philosophy, from the ecstatic to the scatological, slugging it out for dominance, and in its very sloppiness there's a sense of anarchic, exultant wonder I've never seen in a movie before. The only two things like it that I can think of are Thornton Wilder's play "Skin of Our Teeth" and G.K. Chesterton's amazing joyous fever dream of a novel "The Man Who Was Thursday", both of which are works by people who may or may not have faith but who definitely have a good idea. Or several dozen of them, and who just run with them wherever they go. These works are big chaotic messes, but in that way they are mirrors of Creation, the mother of all big chaotic messes. In all these works, just as in the real world, love and joy and beauty and filth and cruelty and despair are constantly tumbling over and bleeding into each other; the one universal rule is that everything is absurd, that the human race is the most absurd thing of all, and that this absurdity can be the catalyst to either suffocating grief or a kind of hilarious wonder.

If you go into "Dogma" expecting a trim and tidy theological comedy of manners, you'll be sorely disappointed. If you're looking for something with the same filthy gorgeous lunacy of existence itself, this is it.

It is not often that you get to see a group of stars that you like in a funny movie that also makes some interesting points.

Matt Damon (The Bourne Ultimatum ), Linda Fiorentino (Unforgettable). Severus Snape, Jay and Silent Bob, Salma Hayek (Frida), George Carlin, and, of course, God (Alanis Morissette), all join to make this irreverent and funny movie.

The premise is so interesting, and the fact that it is set in New Jersey is so appropriate, whether intentional or not. As a recovering Catholic, I remember the teaching of the church that I could basically sin all I want, but if I repent at the end, I will be saved and go to heaven. New Jersey is reputedly the home of many undesirable criminals with vowels on the ends of their names - maybe some of them even relatives of mine - and I know they are predominately Catholic. I am sure they are counting on this "escape clause," just as Loki and Bartleby were counting on the same thing.

Yes, while I was laughing, I was also carefully looking at the images {the golden calf (money) we worship} and listening to the lines. There is a wealth of material in this movie and it was thoroughly enjoyable.

One to see again and again.

...provided that people care about it.

Only Kevin Smith knows what his real intentions were when he penned the script for "Dogma". I read somewhere that this is a thinly veiled propaganda for catholic church, or Christianity in general.

I don't see it that way at all. First of all, the surface is not thin at all. There are layers and layers of clever gags, dark humor and satire in this ride of pursuit.

The main premise is relatively simple - two rogue (or rejected or whatever) angels live on through present day, still doing what they've been doing throughout the Bible and trying to get back to heaven. Their only way to do it is through a loophole in catholic dogma, which, if exploited, would prove that god is fallible. For that they must be stopped and an earthly creature is recruited for the task. There is little time and thus the pursuit begins. During it various biblical elements come into play through their present-day form.

To some "Dogma" was eternal biblical struggle relived and modernized to better adjust to modern viewers. There are some argument in favor of that view. I'd say that the sheer fact that it's a satire (some poignant moments notwithstanding) and the campiness of realization actually tell the opposite tale. They show how this stuff the legends are made from (and still worshiped) fares when viewed through a prism of real life.

The two archetypal angels may have been prosecutors of evil in the Bible, but in real life they are just two self-righteous angry mass murderers. A biblical monster is in real life just a pile of crap, a dangerous one but crap nevertheless. God may be an infallible, omnipresent, omnipowerful creature in the Bible, but in reality its set of values, rules and powers are more becoming of a pop star than of a being that supposedly created everything. In fact you have to wonder about the power of "god" that has to follow rules.

Other various gags and skits, such as the black apostle (13th one at that), play on a virgin working in an abortion clinic and the other ones only reinforce the sense of unsubtle ridicule. In that regard "Dogma" did and will repel many a religious viewers and stir certain controversy. But its subtle message that the whole story is ultimately meaningless might finally make some people question their beliefs at last.

In Kevin Smith's world there are Angels among us, they blaspheme, kill and covet – by my reckoning three of the Big Ten – perhaps Kevin thought 7 outta 10 ain't bad? They also look like the guys from Good Will Hunting! These two angels, Loki (Matt Damon) and Bartleby (Ben Affleck) were cast from Heaven for things un-Angel-ly, though they believe they have discovered a loophole that will allow them access back to heaven, and they have 4 days to get to New Jersey to exploit it.

The problem there is that existence itself is based upon the principle that God is infallible, and proving him wrong in any way disproves that, meaning existence itself won't… exist.

So every man and his Dog(ma) from both "sides" (you know up above and down below) are intent to either allow these two misguided Angels passage in order to create chaos or prevent them from f*cking up the nice gig we humans have down here.

The finer points of the plot don't matter here – suffice to say that the Church trying to get hipper and more accessible is a factor – what really drives the film is that the theological backdrop provides Kevin Smith's many characters with a setting where his dialogue sounds more plausible, even with all the unnecessary and extraneous formal touches that no-one aside from he and his characters use in everyday life. But Angels, Demons and Apostles probably do (not sure if I need capitals there but I'd hate to p*ss off the Church!).

With the big G-(wo)Man being laid up and unable to step in it is up to his staff to prevent this unholy act.

Bethanie (Linda Fiorentino) is the initially unwilling human charged with the ultimate responsibility by the Metatron AKA voice of God (Alan Rickman), Rufus is the formerly unknown 13th Apostle (who proves his authenticity by stating that Jesus "still owes me twelve bucks!"), and Smith faves Jay and Silent Bob are essentially escorts along for the rise – and to provide much of the potty humour.

On the "Red" team are Azrael the demon (Jason Lee) and a few teenaged minions.

The ludicrous and way out setting is perfect for Kevin Smith to work with, being a pet project he obviously spent a great deal of time coming up with a plot that while far-fetched hangs together and is plausible in an impossible way. The script is often clever, the dialogue better than anything he has written since and there is lots of detail along the way that shows the time spend fine tuning the small things.

But with the good comes the not so good – though Smith thankfully keeps his indulgences minor – there are still various comic book references, a myriad of 80s references and wink-wink cameos, but it must be said they do all work or at least not detract from the good stuff.

And finally what other film can say that they have Salma Hayek as a stripper (I could give you 20 paragraphs on that 90 second scene alone!), a Sh*t-Demon, and who could forget the mass murder of fast food chain senior management topped off with the slaughter of hundreds of New Jersey-ites? (Unfortunately this was made before Jersey Shore so they weren't able to kill off the unbearably untalented Snooki – that might be a job for a Terminator in the future.) I think Clerks remains Kevin Smith's best film and Chasing Amy is his most accomplished, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the film he was most satisfied with, after all he managed to tick most of the "Kevin Smith Bingo TM" categories off (potty humour, 80s references, cameos, a cast of his familiars, drug references, Jay and Silent Bob, comic book parables etc) AND deal with his own religious questions at the same time, in a film that works quite well as a straight comedy – albeit of the dreaded controversial type – but even without the dick jokes (or lack thereof where Angels are concerned) the script is interesting enough that Dogma would be worth watching.

Of course if you are reading this and want me to address the film from a religious perspective – you're wasting your time. It's just a movie, a good movie dealing with religious themes, but still JUST A MOVIE! Final Rating – 8 / 10. Smith should go back to writing his own stuff about things that matter to him, anything else could be perceived as a Cop Out, which wouldn't be good.

Dogma has plenty of funny religion-themed gags, but I was entertained by it mainly because I liked just about all of the characters and I enjoyed most of their dialogue.

There's not a lot of substance behind what they're saying, unlike in, say, Tarantino's films, but the fact that it's all fairly low-brow and goofy is what makes it good. Jay and Bob are fantastic with their little stoner quips.

The plot is fairly weak, but it's not supposed to be brilliant. It's easy to tell that Kevin Smith just enjoys playing around with Catholicism by poking and prodding at it.

Also, George Carlin is what was his usual comedic self in his cameo.