Personally, I think that Ronnie Renton should crow louder and louder about all the WHFB customers he's getting, nothing will stick in GW's ire like hearing this and they may decide to bring back a living rulebook or something like just to scorch the earth for other companies.

I will quietly hope and pray that they give it to the FW/new SGs guys and keep it the hell away from the 'GW Prime' team, to keep it very clear of detritus from AoS. If we want a skirmish game to go with it, SG can rereleash or indeed reimagine, Mordheim.

YOU BLEW IT UP!!!!!

Slaanesh.

Slaanesh is the closest of the Gods to satan/our representations of temptation and evil. sHe is all about that satanic worship of self thing, with a huge dollop of cenobite pushing the boundaries of your experience and understanding.

"Slaanesh: because you're worth it."

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:


Snotling Bases (war poultry)

This makes me so happy.

Some great photos of great armies, sounds like a good tourney and wish I had a few fantasy players up here to use my Slaaneshi WoC army with.

So... you mentioned retiring the green skaven for a new army, any ideas what it'll be yet?

7th seemed to suffer with a few OP armybooks, 8th seems to suffer with overemphasis on giant infantry units and magic being to potent.

So, some halfway house between them?

Perhaps note down each action on paper as it happens and then confirm with the opponent at the end of the game that the account is accurate and then provide a commentary over the video at your leisure later on, without all the arguing and contradiction and the guy in the background shouting over you each time you get the narrative wrong.

 marielle wrote:
People have read it and they have replied.

Indeed they have, the comparative merits of what they've said are variable.

OP, 8th favors Warmachines, large blocks of infantry and strong magic users, it does not favor cavalry, small elite units, skirmishers or large monsters.

Empire, Skaven, Lizardmen and Warriors of Chaos all seem to be strong in tournament settings, I'm not sure as a WoC player myself, how the new armybook has affected the army, I've not yet purchased it. I also play a monoGod (slaanesh, weakest of the 4 in the last book) background driven army, so I've not pushed the army to it's boundaries in terms of strengths.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hargus56 wrote:
I'm going to give an answer and I really don't mean to offend. These types of questions are not welcome on the fantasy forums if you want to play "what army is the best?" I suggest you take it to the adolescent moronic forums above the fantasy ones. Fantasy is very balanced, Skaven are considered to be a more forgiving army their book is written well and they have a lot of good units and options and they are fun to play with and against.

This is just not true, ask any Wood Elf player about how well their army holds up these days. Poor buggers have been languishing for years.

 ArbitorIan wrote:
Adding another 60+ models to the army is unrealistic at the moment. I could potentially convert a unit of 20 from bits, but I can't really spend lots more on extra stuff if I might never get to play.

If another large unit is needed, I could probably use bits to stretch my number of Warriors, especially since full commands on everything free up more regular guys. Is there an Allies system in WHFB? I could scrape together some undead or goblin models if that helps with extra units.

Just assemble a 'counts as' unit or two then? Or trade your undead and goblins for marauders? Also I think wargames factory and some others do very reasonably priced celts and vikings which would be good stand ins.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a 2k list using what you got, it's very light on troops but everything in it is a killer... If you take it up to 2500 or 3k, I suggest the large unit of marauders to march out at the front and the medium unit of marauders (for the sorc lord to lurk in) and a battle standard bearer.

Sorcerer (2#, 185 pts)
1 Chaos Sorcerer of Tzeentch, 185 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Chaos Armor)
1 Disc of Tzeentch (Flaming Attacks; Causes Fear; Flyer)
1 Dispel Scroll

Sorcerer Lord (1#, 375 pts)
1 Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch, 375 pts (General; Mark of Tzeentch; Level 4 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Chaos Armor)
1 Infernal Puppet
1 Talisman of Preservation
1 Favour of the Gods

Chaos Warriors (25#, 515 pts)
24 ×Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch, 515 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Halberd; Chaos Armor; Shield)
1 Champion of Tzeentch (Mark of Tzeentch; Hand Weapon; Halberd; Chaos Armor; Shield)
1 Blasted Standard

Chaos Ogres (8#, 380 pts)
8 Ogres of Tzeentch, 380 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Chaos Armor; Causes Fear; Extra Attack)

Chaos Knights (5#, 285 pts)
5 Chaos Knights of Tzeentch, 285 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Barding; Hand Weapon; Chaos Armor; Shield; Causes Fear)
5 Chaos Steed
1 Banner of Rage

Chaos Knights (5#, 260 pts)
5 Chaos Knights of Tzeentch, 260 pts (Mark of Tzeentch; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Barding; Hand Weapon; Chaos Armor; Shield; Causes Fear)
5 Chaos Steed
1 Banner of Eternal Flame

Total Roster Cost: 2000

I like full command in most units.

I would recommend it in the marauder unit with your level 4 so he can avoid having to issue a pesky challenge on a nasty opponent like an ogre tyrant, orc warboss or (horror of horrors) a vamp or another chaos lord. A sacrificial lamb if you will.

Banners are highly important. BSBers are very important in 8th, you must decide if you want a BSB armed to the teeth with magic items or a utility one with a magical banner (since, annoyingly it's either magic banner or magic items), for me, given the chaos hero's great stats, I like to tool him up and don't bother with the magical banner. Put magic banners on warrior or chosen squads.

Up that ogre squad till you have a full two ranks.

The marauder unit... hmm... If you give them the mark of T, 6+ ward save... perhaps give them light armour and shields to just keep upping their survivability as a utility unit for hiding the lvl4. Perhaps take them at 20 strong? Add another much larger 40+ unit of marauders with DHW or Flails.

Give your warriors the Blasted Standard, the MoT will up the ward to 4+... so that's a 50% invulnerable to shooting of any kind.

Now with giants... Well, I think Slaanesh ASF is a must, but ymmv. As with dragons, they are limited this edition as cannon and spell slingers tend to snipe them out.

A unit of ogres would be tidy, stomp attack is great. I personally take a unit of trolls but ogres will get you the same-ish result of a strong flank holding unit.

All warriors in a 40strong unit.

2x5 chaos knights imo, use them to break flanks and eat small units of elites.


If it was me, I'd keep one low level sorc on a disc and have him zipping about casting annoying spells on fat enemy units that can't wheel to deal. I'd have my level 4, armed to the teeth with the usual Infernal Puppet + ward + anything else you fancy nicely nestled in a sizeable unit of marauders, perhaps DHW or flails.

Do you have any prerequisites? Any units you like the look of or Gods you want to include or avoid?

Or do you just want a large beatdown stick in all the flavors?

Very good report, nice to see a little battle like this.

Also easy to follow, your english is very good.

I've had a Marienburg army in my head for quite some time, will be building it next year I think.

Ogres, lead by the ogre maneater 'pirate'.

Warrior Priests of Manaan, God of the Sea. Also great modelling opportunity for a Manaan war altar.

Marienburg has a very large 'ghetto' of Sea Elves, so using 'counts as' high elf models for the wizard (heavens) and light cav.

Making heavy cav using a mixed unit of exiled knights (empire, brettonian, high elf, volands venators, mounted mordheim figures).

No steam tank but taking the land ship. Also Manans blades unit.

No hellfire but plenty of cannons and mortars (no Nuln, but plenty of ships for cannons).

Lots of well outfitted halberdier units/detachments and well paid greatswords (The Directors of Marienburg put a lot of cash into having a strong army btw, to keep the Empire's local lords away).

Lots of 'scum' units of militia/free company representing ship's crews come ashore to fight.



Look out for the WHFRP supplement Marienburg: Sold Down The River as it's really fething amazingly filled with lore, info and history of the city. It will give you tons of ideas!

That's a very nicely explained and presented report.

Browse the Mcfarlane dragons for a conversion opportunity.

That was an interesting place to park Valkia...

Leave most units as 'undivided' and without a mark, then take the mark of khorne for one unit and make them your berserkers.

Trolls are far more nordic than ogres.

Also, a dragon riding lord would be thematic, especially if you could get one like the old 'wyrm' looking forest dragon or something similar.

Werewolves and werebears were always a Norse theme in Warhammer Fantasy's old times. Perhaps as forsaken?

Chaos War Mammoths...

Well, the book got superceded by the new rulebook, which reclassifies all unit types into the new classes (eg monstrous cav vs cav) and steeds of slaanesh became Cav under that reclassification, thus using Cav bases rather than the 50mm.

Also I would guess that the new rulebook would also have more 'weight' than the stats on the website.

In a friendly game, I'd go with either mount and explain to my opponent and if he/she/it had a problem, I guess I'd stick it on the end of the front row with half sticking out to be ignored.

I think what Boss is saying is that the steeds of slaanesh for daemonettes to ride are traditionally on cav bases, so if I were to count the boobsnake as one, he'd like to see it on a cav base instead of the 50mm square one.

Kk, survival gear it is then, I'll have a go at upping this list into a 3k this week.

To knobble or nobble someone or something means to take down, handicap, steal, kidnap or incapacitate it.

eg, orc speak:

Wot appuned ta da waaaghboss den?

Oh, 'e got nobbled by da stunties, dey shot 'im in da 'ead wiv wun ov dem flamin kannonz, he got dead toasty! hur hur hur...

etc etc.

Ok... then this leaves me wondering about putting the BSB into the hammer or anvil units...

If it's fashionable to knobble the BSB, perhaps I'll keep him back, put him in a unit of his own warriors and keep him near the trolls.

Interesting, with BSB, should I give him a magic banner or tool him up with items?

Well that's disappointing to say the least.

erm... and you're far more knowledgeable about this than me so I'll defer to your logic... but as I'm reading the WoC book, page 54 says 'juggernauts, daemonic mounts, palanquins and discs are 'cavalry mounts' even though they are not mounted on a 25 x 50 base'....

So, they are cavalry, not monstrous cavalry... The Army book is making them exceptions to any ruling on base size to clearly state they are cavalry, right?

So with that logic, they can get the LOS?

Boss Salvage wrote:The boobsnake can 100% still ride with the horsemen! He can't be targeted by shooting or anything except sniper stuff (which could snipe him whatever he was riding), the only downside is that he gets no LOS! roll. Does that mean he'll get splatted by artillery once in a while? Sure. Charmed shield helps avoid the first one, but eventually it'll happen - but I've been running bonebreaker warlords in my skaven army and have only lost one once to a cannon shot (same deal, no LOS!) Then again my meta has few cannons or people looking to snipe characters with throwers, and I've got the HPA and other stuff to draw fire. If you keep the exalted on boobsnake in your list, where else would you put him? Riding with the knights gets him no LOS! either (though that unit too is brutal as hell), nor the trolls.

Why doesn't he get the look out sir roll? (just took a cursory look over the rules and couldn't see the reason). He's Cav and they are Cav as well. Is it base size?

Boss Salvage wrote:
On flails looking like crap, I actually agree. My horsemen have spears + shields for a more classic look, and I just deal with the S4. Note that spears + throwing spears costs the same as flails and gives them something to do in the shooting phase (including march + fire because fast cav, and fire in two ranks because 8th ed).

Yep, I really like the marauder horsemen, but without those flails, perhaps I'll follow your lead on the spears or perhaps I'll continue searching for a better looking alternative flail...

Boss Salvage wrote:
Level 4 was going securely in the warrior bunker with marauders to one side and trolls to other.

My reasoning in putting the sorc into the marauders was to give the enemy pause between attacking them or the warriors instead of concentrating everything on the warriors. Perhaps that's better done with heroes and lords.

Boss Salvage wrote:
Warshrine I still think is a bad unit, despite the fun effect. But other people can chime in on what it's good for. AFAIK it's fighting other things with 0 CR, combo-charging with warriors to help them out, or staying alive vs shooting. Up against anything with CR and it's outta there.

- Salvage

KK, it'll cruise around in the back and look interesting, I wanted it principally for the modelling opportunity it provides and also to give my warriors more 'zing' to bring them up to khorne/tzeentch levels.

Thanks for the feedback folks.

On the subject of ogres instead of trolls... I'm afraid I just love the river troll models far too much aaaannnnddd they are loved by Mrs S, who's going to be using them in her Orc and Gobbo army, so getting a big unit of them is value for money.

Boss Salvage wrote:
Sorcerer Lord -- You can only have the scroll or the puppet, since they're both arcane, and I went with puppet, as in my mind the magic phase is really only about going IF and dealing with the miscast. The puppet makes this worse for your opponent and better for you. Homonculus was cut because I needed points and don't fancy it much (a LD8 no-reroll test afterwards? Blarg to that!), and I decided that he really did need some defense (from his own miscasts, from enemy snipers, from being punched in combat), so picked up the 5+ ward.

Seems entirely reasonable. Where should he be? In a unit or skulking near one?

Boss Salvage wrote:
Exalted Hero -- First off, the boobsnake is a daemonic mount (the pic in the WoC book calls it one, and anyway a 'steed of slaanesh' is what those demonette chicks ride), but this is totally fine because I think the d.mount is great - M8 swiftstride, fear, 2x S5 attaks, 1x S5 stomp, +1 armor - for the same price as the SoS. True, he can no longer vanguard with his horsemen ... but so be it. Since he's now Monstrous Cav (and gets no LOS!), the charmed shield is all I wanted to invest in to keep him around vs artillery snipes (2+ armor otherwise), preferring to splurge on a rather fluffy ASF sword so he can murder RNF faster. Ironcurse is to keep him and his crew alive vs said artillery (1 thrower shot still cripples them though ...), and you know it is with heavy heart that I ditched his roar. I needed the points, and with his impressive movement abilities I didn't see him getting to yell too often.

Heh, the Roar was there for amusement value. Shame I can't keep him in the marauder horse unit any more though, I thought that would afford him some cover and give them some punch. The SoSS is great and I'd wavered over buying it myself, so gladly added.

Boss Salvage wrote:
Warriors -- Frenzy banner seemed to give too little benefit (+1A to the front rank) for too much loss (no parry for unit, ItP worse than MoS). Rapturous however is ultra-fluffy and makes your anvil unit even harder to shift - plus, with no BSB you may need to weight the odds further. That unit shouldn't be losing combat, but if it does (say, because the enemy deathstar crashes into it ftw) you want to lock down and have your heavy flankers slam in.

Yep, Rapt Standard is nice and themed.

Boss Salvage wrote:
Horsemen -- They really ought to have a weapon, and preferably a combat weapon given the number of them and their hero. Flails still seem like the best option, ensuring that the whole unit (including exalted and his boobworm, but not the horsemen ponies) slam in at S5 for at least the first turn. I also gave them light armor, as 5+ save is way better than 6+, and cheaply gotten.

Yep, I thought this might be your choice. I'd gone with hand weapon and shield as I hate the look of the flails, I'll have to look into some form of alternative to represent them, perhaps the new dark eldar have a better looking chain weapon.

Boss Salvage wrote:
Marauders -- Lumberjack marauders are not really a place for high importance, low defense characters, so I evened out the unit and dropped the champ. These dudes are for dropping your frenzy spell on and wrecking some face until one side is dead, or perhaps deploying 5-wide and steadfasting for a turn while assassinating characters.

So... sounds good although in all cases that you've recommended removing the champion, I mourn the lost attack...

Boss Salvage wrote:
Warhounds -- Puppy time, check. Two units is certainly better then one, but I really wanted the level 4 to have some defense so dropped half of them. If this feels too tactically light for you feel free to de-ward the lord and buy your dogs back.

Dogs are for 'hounding' (lawlllll) the flanks of the enemies and therefore far from the priority that the Sorc being alive is, so works perfectly.

Boss Salvage wrote:
Trolls -- Brutality time, check. Another reason to keep the ward on your level 4 is that (s)he'll probably be your general, so these trolls don't have to try to stick with the boobsnake if they want LD8.

So keep the Sorcerer lurking on one side of the marauders and the trolls near that side.

Boss Salvage wrote:
Knights -- Chaos knights kill things, preferably in conjunction with infantry friends, so they don't worry about carrying their own CR with them. Also, I needed points.

Fair enough, the CR was there for the 'just in case' the knights ended up against a full unit.

Boss Salvage wrote:
Warshrine -- Groovy random time, check. Would have liked to get the favor on one of your characters but had more pressing demands.

As a noob, is there a 'best way' to utilise this thing or just let it trundle along and do it's thing?

Boss Salvage wrote:
So those are my thoughts and prospective changes. Like the list quite a bit, strong variety of units, a rarely seen (but still brutal) magic lore, and immensely themed stuff (particularly with ASF sword and rapturous standard ). Ok I'll admit it: seeing MoS on combat characters gets me all giddy
- Salvage

Slaanesh was always my favourite god of the big four, I'm cautious about the magic, it's concerning to me that psychology has been very reduced in 8th and that several armies and units are immune to it anyway (daemons, undead etc)

So... Could you offer some suggestions for upping it to competition size forces and up to 3k?

Thought after my 500pt Slaanesh warband was so much fun to play at Dakkacon, I'd try my hand at a larger force, along the idea of a hammer and anvil (or the whip and the claw perhaps...). Take a look and let me know.

*************************************

Sorcerer Lord Lvl4 355pts
-cojoined homonculus
-infernal puppet
-dispel scroll
-MOS

Exalted Hero 215pts
-Boobsnake... I mean Steed of Slaanesh
-Talisman of Regen
-Bloodcurdling Road
-Shield
-MOS


The Whip

13 Marauder Horsemen Full Command + MOS 190pts
(Exalted Hero joins this unit)

5 Knights Full Command + MOS 250pts

2x
5 Chaos Hounds 60pts

The Claw

29 Marauders Full Command + MOS + Great Weapons 175pts
(Sorcerer Lord joins this unit)

20 Chaos Warriors Full Command + MOS + Banner of Rage + Shields 395pts

6 Trolls 270pts

Shrine of Slaanesh 140pts

******************

So, revised could look like this:


Rank and File:
Mark of Slaanesh = Initiative +1, Ld +1

Heroes, Wizards, Giants, Spawn and other assorted gribblies, Always Strikes First and Leadership reroll.

What points cost would folks put that at?